Supplementing with something else than formula?

monikatommy · December 2013

I am going to bring it up on the 12 month visit, also asking the lactation consultant but I wanted to hear opinions from mothers who are interested in nutrition if there are any here. USA is known for still pushing cow's milk in crazy amounts on kids and adults, pediatricians sometimes follow those forced guidelines. Cow's milk is filled with hormones and weirdly can stand in the fridge for a week or more without going bad. (How come in Poland it's so fresh that you have to drink it up within 2 days?!)Anyone tried goat milk or other kind of milk in supplementing breastmilk? I have low (diagnosed) milk supply. I pump every 3 hours. My daughter doesn't like solid food too much yet and she is one of those babies that drink a lot of milk. She goes through so much formula that I had to give up and go on WIC when she was 7 months. Any moms here supplement or plan to supplement breastmilk with something else than formula? Goat milk? I'm interested in answers from moms interested in nutrition. I hate giving my daughter formula but 'human milk 4 human babies' was a disappointment, I was promised donor milk and then nothing happened etc...

PhieryBFly · December 2013

I was going to suggest the Human Milk 4 Human Babies thing until I saw your last line. I would actually recommend trying it again. I donate through them and have been an ongoing donor for an adopted little girl until she moved away and now I help a mom with low supply. It sometimes takes awhile to find a good match though.

nanabanana06 · December 2013

We're doing goats milk. We also do raw cows milk as well since it's fresher and has no processing. Tastes good too.

jllmb79 · December 2013

Is there something wrong with Organic Cows milk?

I was just thinking BM lasts in the refrigerator for up to 8 days and it is not treated with chemicals to last this long. Is Cows milk really that bad?

monikatommy · December 2013

Thank you for all the tips. As for bm, my lact consultant told me not to keep it in the fridge longer than 6 days but preferably use it as fresh as possible. Well, that's not a problem with me, with the low milk supply I have to pump 3 times to make a bottle lol. There's never more than 1 standing in the fridge. I was thinking raw milk, thank you, I'm going to look into that too. I had raw milk myself with my husband, but I'm scared a little if the pediatrician found out about it, as it's quite common for pediatricians to get upset over it. My friend was talked to in a rather rough way after she admitted to serving a little bit of goat's milk to her then 5 mo. Did you have any problems, Nana? It's kind of ridiculous that something fresh & w/o a long list of ingredients is frowned upon while formula is pushed like crazy.

Phiery, thank you for the advice, but I don't think that I could go through that again. It was a great disappointment, I was waiting for a phonecall saying I could pick up the milk but the lady never called. I live in a rural area and donors are very rare.

ebp913 · December 2013

Formula is "pushed like crazy" because a ton of research has been done about the caloric and nutritional needs of tiny babies and formula meets those needs. Babies grow a ton in their first year and they need proper nutrition to do so. If you are afraid to tell your pediatrician about something you are doing, that's a bad sign. If you can't back it up with actual scientific research, that's even worse.

monikatommy · December 2013

Why would I post in the first place if I wanted to supplement with formula. It's enough to look at the lengthy ingredient list, to not want to give it to a child. I love the idea about goats milk and raw cow's milk and will give it a try. I come from Poland where pediatricians advise it themselves. In USA it's a different matter. It seems like it's the artificial stuff that is still nr 1, although I see more interest in breast milk in the past years, which is a good sign. In PL I would not hesitate to supplement with goats/cow's milk, in USA I'd like to hear from Nana as to whether her kids pediatrician was against this natural supplementing, was he/she fine with it? I googled it and it seems there have been several cases of moms being threatened with taking the babies away if they tried the natural supplementing. I'm curious as to what Nana will reply, thank you. As for negative comments, don't waste your time on answering, I'm guessing formula-moms.

nanabanana06 · December 2013

Uh... I formula feed my kid. Just an FYI. At 1 year though we're dropping formula and doing goats milk as my son is a little dairy sensitive. I wasn't saying to replace formula with it any earlier than that though. It's not good for their system. However, I have seen many moms who have made their own formula using raw whole milk. There's a few recipes out there. Mostly I've seen this though for mothers whose children have corn allergies. As most formulas have varying form of corn. I have never done this though. My kid tolerates and love his Gerber since my tits don't work.

brachysira · December 2013

No raw milk! This is a seriously misguided attempt to be "natural." As a microbiologist, I strongly discourage anyone from drinking raw milk and certainly would not risk the life of an infant: https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-index.html.

Hormones do not cause milk to stay fresh longer. Pasteurization, which is just heating, will kill off bacteria, which then keeps your milk better longer because it does not contain bacteria, including those that can make you very ill. Pasteurization doesn't add anything to the milk. If you are concerned about hormones, you certainly can try pasteurized milk from better farms and perhaps can start with organic milk, but raw milk itself is not a solution, as being "raw" does not mean it contains any fewer hormones or other things you dislike. Along those lines, goat's milk does not necessarily have fewer hormones or additives and can be pasteurized (good) or not (bad). What matters is that goats milk has adequate fat and other nutritional qualities, which you should research. You may need to choose a combination of subs--hemp milk, almond milk, etc. But that solution is not for someone with a limited budget, as those tend to be quite pricey.

Give formula until 12 months. After that, if you choose to deviate from what is recommended by your doctor, do more research, discuss your new plan with your doctor, and don't rely on people on a web forum to tell you what to feed your child, especially if that thing will comprise the majority of your child's diet.

PhieryBFly · December 2013

This thread is not about formula being good bad or made of tears of angels so no need for everyone to get all defensive. She said she didn't want to use it- not that anyone else shouldn't. Don't be all hypocritical demanding respect at formula feeding but then not respect the original posters request for advise according to her wishes.

nanabanana06 · December 2013

Oh and I wanted to clarify. I don't give the kids raw milk. They get organic local milk. SO likes raw as his step dad is English and that's what he's been drinking his whole life and got him drinking it. The is some debate as to whether or not pasteurizing destroys the nutrients in the milk or not. There is a reason homemade formulas use it as well. I just can't remeber why. I don't buy it often as its expensive and it doesn't get delivered with the rest of our dairy.

brachysira · December 2013

Nana_Osaki06 said:

Oh and I wanted to clarify. I don't give the kids raw milk. They get organic local milk. SO likes raw as his step dad is English and that's what he's been drinking his whole life and got him drinking it. The is some debate as to whether or not pasteurizing destroys the nutrients in the milk or not. There is a reason homemade formulas use it as well. I just can't remeber why. I don't buy it often as its expensive and it doesn't get delivered with the rest of our dairy.

I wouldn't call it a "debate" because scientists can and have measured which nutrients are damaged, and a few, that are low in milk and that we get primary from other sources anyway, are damaged by the heating. However, that is a small price to pay for not risking one's infant's life with raw milk. Plus, I would rely on the empirical evidence that does not indicate that children given pasteurized (the vast majority of US children) vs. raw milk are any different, except with respect to disease risk from harmful bacteria in raw milk (https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2012/p0221_raw_milk_outbreak.html).

The OP, who says her baby does not eat much other food, may not be able to rely on cow's milk or anything without consulting a physician because babies under one year rely on breast milk or formula for all the nutrients they need (breastmilk may need to be supplemented with vitamin D and/or iron), and babies older than 1 year rely on a variety of foods. If this baby is not eating food at one year, when her sources of nutrients should expand, she may need feeding therapy, special enriched drinks, etc.

ebp913 · December 2013

monikatommy said:

As for negative comments, don't waste your time on answering, I'm guessing formula-moms.

Yeah, you pull this out and expect people to help you? I EBF, but if I couldn't I'd give my child formula without hesitation, and this is just rude.

Yea come on. I EBF both my kids until I got pregnant and they refused to nurse anymore. I am very pro-BF but I am also in favor of doing what is a tested and sure method to ensure your baby gets everything it needs. When you start pulling that line out, it becomes clear that you don't want help, you just want people to agree with you.

nanabanana06 · December 2013

brachysira said:

Nana_Osaki06 said:

Oh and I wanted to clarify. I don't give the kids raw milk. They get organic local milk. SO likes raw as his step dad is English and that's what he's been drinking his whole life and got him drinking it. The is some debate as to whether or not pasteurizing destroys the nutrients in the milk or not. There is a reason homemade formulas use it as well. I just can't remeber why. I don't buy it often as its expensive and it doesn't get delivered with the rest of our dairy.

I wouldn't call it a "debate" because scientists can and have measured which nutrients are damaged, and a few, that are low in milk and that we get primary from other sources anyway, are damaged by the heating. However, that is a small price to pay for not risking one's infant's life with raw milk. Plus, I would rely on the empirical evidence that does not indicate that children given pasteurized (the vast majority of US children) vs. raw milk are any different, except with respect to disease risk from harmful bacteria in raw milk (https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2012/p0221_raw_milk_outbreak.html).

The OP, who says her baby does not eat much other food, may not be able to rely on cow's milk or anything without consulting a physician because babies under one year rely on breast milk or formula for all the nutrients they need (breastmilk may need to be supplemented with vitamin D and/or iron), and babies older than 1 year rely on a variety of foods. If this baby is not eating food at one year, when her sources of nutrients should expand, she may need feeding therapy, special enriched drinks, etc.

Way to fail with reading. I don't give it to kids. I just said that there is a reason all homemade formula recipes use it, not that I give it to my kids. I'm not stupid now eff off please.

brachysira · December 2013

I didn't say you gave it to your kids. But this isn't a letter between the two of us. Other people are reading it, so it's important to be clear. There is a lot of misinformation about "raw milk" on the internet, and I want to make it clear to the OP and others that it is not a safe option. OP says she wants to try raw milk b/c of your suggestion.

nanabanana06 · December 2013

brachysira said:
I didn't say you gave it to your kids. But this isn't a letter between the two of us. Other people are reading it, so it's important to be clear. There is a lot of misinformation about "raw milk" on the internet, and I want to make it clear to the OP and others that it is not a safe option. OP says she wants to try raw milk b/c of your suggestion.

Yeah, well OP seems a bit near sighted. I think she would of found something to latch onto anyways. I said we had it in the house not that my kid drank it. They do drink goats milk though.

Also, you realize many European countries drink raw milk? That's how I found out that it was even a thing. SFIL grew up drinking it in the UK and doesn't like even organic milk. It's too pricey for us all the time though and doesn't get delivered like our regular milk.

brachysira · December 2013

Most developed countries have high rates of pasteurization. For one thing, it simply isn't feasible to keep milk good for long enough to transport it to people when they do not live close to dairies. Plus, outbreaks of disease is something most people with resources to prevent it with to avoid. If Further, while certainly there are some practices that may be useful in some areas but that do not apply to the US, the complexities of why something works in one community and not another may not be easy to replicate. Also, unless we have comparisons of outbreaks in an area where raw milk is consumed and where it isn't, we can't say that what some place else does is safe. Just that someone else does it is not evidence that it is good. Sure, not everyone who consumes raw milk gets sick, but that doesn't mean it is worth the risk.

MamaMuslima01 · December 2013

monikatommy said:
I am going to bring it up on the 12 month visit, also asking the lactation consultant but I wanted to hear opinions from mothers who are interested in nutrition if there are any here. USA is known for still pushing cow's milk in crazy amounts on kids and adults, pediatricians sometimes follow those forced guidelines. Cow's milk is filled with hormones and weirdly can stand in the fridge for a week or more without going bad. (How come in Poland it's so fresh that you have to drink it up within 2 days?!)Anyone tried goat milk or other kind of milk in supplementing breastmilk? I have low (diagnosed) milk supply. I pump every 3 hours. My daughter doesn't like solid food too much yet and she is one of those babies that drink a lot of milk. She goes through so much formula that I had to give up and go on WIC when she was 7 months. Any moms here supplement or plan to supplement breastmilk with something else than formula? Goat milk? I'm interested in answers from moms interested in nutrition. I hate giving my daughter formula but 'human milk 4 human babies' was a disappointment, I was promised donor milk and then nothing happened etc...

My husband is a Nutritionist. We are all natural, all organic hippies lol. So I thought id reply! Goat milk is better than cows milk! Where do you live? Are you still looking for donor breast milk?

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