BOTB - am I being irrational?

hoffse · December 2013

Hi all,

I'm a bit of a lurker here. H and I are still a ways out from TTC, but yesterday I had a pretty amazing job opportunity presented to me that might move our date up. It's all good news, and yet I'm nervous about it.

One of the things that makes me (probably irrationally) nervous is my FIL. My H has two brothers, and while they were growing up my FIL was very physical with them when it came to discipline - I'm talking an open palm to the face for talking back, the flat side of a knife to their knuckles for putting their hands on the table, a belt buckle instead of his hand for a spanking, etc. Don't get me wrong - he's very proud of them and generally loving toward them, but the discipline methods seemed pretty extreme. I had the exact opposite experience: my dad is actually a developmental psychologist and used timeout very effectively with me up until the age of 13 or so. I was spanked exactly once, and it was by a teacher. My parents raised hell for it.

My H does not want to physically discipline his children. But I have this nagging fear that if we had boys my FIL might try to discipline them in "his way" if they act up at his house. You know - his house, his rules and all that. Now I don't think this would happen if we had girls (FIL wants a granddaughter desperately and would spoil her beyond recognition), but with boys it makes me really nervous. I will find a way to talk to H about this (eventually), but in the meantime, any thoughts? I actually mentioned this to my dad and he thinks I'm overreacting - but he did admit there are different "grandparenting styles" and you never really know what you're going to get. My FIL has no problem lecturing me about all sorts of things in life - how to do my job, how to spend my money, how to "be successful" and I have no doubt he will lecture me about parenting and discipline. A lecture I could handle - a physical demonstration would be going too far.

Is this entirely irrational? I'm very excited about this job opportunity, but when my H suggested moving the TTC date up a bit, I kind of panicked. Has anybody else faced this? Or am I just worrying (which I'm prone to do)?

barely · December 2013

I think if it comes to it you (or your H or both) will have to talk to you FIL. I wouldn't worry about it nw though because it may not even be an issue.

hoffse · December 2013

That's true - I think I'm also worrying about changing jobs (even though it's a great opportunity I don't like change). And this is rolling into it. It's honestly the reason I would much rather have a girl, though, and that's not fair - because deep down I think a little boy would be loads of fun.

Would you address this sort of thing with FIL preemptively, or would you wait to see if anything happened?

barely · December 2013

I would probably wait. I think you will be able to tell how he is going to be with him/her from just seeing them together at family functions and whatnot before he/she will ever be alone with him. You also may never have to worry because you may have all girls. Play it by ear. Btw, I'm horrible with change too and get stressed easily. You aren't alone!

LexiPlexi · December 2013

I would suggest talking to your husband about your fears. But I wouldn't ask him to talk to your FIL just yet. Lots of people change in their old age and grandparents often feel differently about their grandkids than they felt about their kids. So it may not end up being an issue at all.

I would make my husband aware & wait it out, if you have kids and then it looks like your FIL will be/is abusive then remove your kid from the situation and then your husband can talk to him about it.

DeannaCW · December 2013

My grandfather also used abuse as discipline. My dad naturally distanced himself by moving way the heck away, but when we did visit, we were never alone with him, just in case. Mom just followed dad's lead and backed him up when necessary. You two will definitely need to be on the same page for this, especially regarding consequences if he DOES do something to your kids.

My dad wasn't perfect, but looking back, one of the greatest ways he showed that he loved us was by protecting us from his dad. If you're worried about it, talk to your husband. Start working out game plans for all the "what-ifs". You don't have to decide them all immediately, but having your fears on the table I've personally found to relieve some of the anxiety. It'll probably be an ongoing discussion, may last years, but just having it is a good step to take. Especially before the kids arrive.

cleaneatingmama · December 2013

No way! You are not being irrational! You will find that once you have your baby, you will do anything and everything to protect them. These feelings you have right now will multiply! And that's a good thing!
Have a very serious talk with your husband again. Talk about your discipline styles and the actions you are going to take. It sounds as though you are both on the same page, which is great. But the two of you need to be on the same page regarding your father in law and any other family member. You two will have to decide what your plan of action will be IF your father in law decides to discipline your child(ren) the way he used to.
I can confidently say that if we found out ANYONE used physical discipline (spanking, slapping, hitting) they would not be allowed to see my son. Period. We don't hit/spank and no one has the right to do that. I would be livid!!! It wouldn't matter if it was my mom, dad, grandparents...
This crazy motherly/protective mode comes over you and you literally cannot turn it off.

cleaneatingmama · December 2013

Oh! I forgot to add:
My grandparents were pretty physical to their kids (my mom and uncles). They had belt that hung by the door and was frequently used. And a lot of spanking. However, my grandparents pretty much raised me and never once hit or spanked me. And they have never done anything to my son.
Your FIL could have changed. I wouldn't talk to him unless it comes up or you two could bring it up in passing - stating that you are not going to spank your child, etc.
I hope this helps!
Congrats on the job!
XxOo

hoffse · December 2013

Thanks, everybody - I will definitely talk to H about this before we start TTC. I know he has no intention of physically disciplining our children because that sort of thing has put a strain on his relationship with his father for years now - and he's not as close to either of his parents as he would like to be. I know he has no intention of using physical discipline with our children. But we haven't talked about what to do if his dad does that with grandkids when they act up. After all, these are methods his dad is familiar with.

I will make sure we have a plan in place before starting TTC. And perhaps while pregnant we'll bring the conversation around to forms of discipline and just say in front of his parents that we will be using time out. And when his dad lectures us about how that's not effective I might mention that it was highly effective with me. My dad was very consistent with time out and would do it any time and any place if I acted up. That meant I usually behaved pretty well. Hopefully that would be enough to give FIL a clue that we won't tolerate physical disciplining.

But I will let H take the lead on how to address it. Thanks!

ArgyleBride · December 2013

I wouldn't even argue with your FIL or try to convince him it's effective. Just say it's what you're doing and that's that. I also see no need to tell him this while you're pregnant--presumably you would still be years away from it being an issue, unless he's so crazy he'd hit an infant.

MariaBend25 · December 2013

You may be more nervous over just having a kid (like I am) and this uncertainty is displaced on to the possible future actions of the grandparents? If you markedly tell him that you only punish with time-outs or taking away toys, I think he will respect that since in the end YOU are the parents. You said nothing about him being abusive or a raging drunk that would make me think he would go around your wishes and smack your kid. If anything, you can tell him that if your kids act up at his place you want to dole out the punishment, that way you don't have to defend your parenting style or choice of punishment and still get to "deal" with the issue instead of him. Ultimately this is far down the road since kids don't really start acting up, deserving actual punishment until past the toddler stage.

Personally, I support the average spanking, and find this clip by comedian Russell Peters to be hilarious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CpKKQrhqkw

Ducktale · December 2013

Hi from a fellow MM poster, @hoffse ! I think the pp have it covered, but just wanted to say good to see you over here. Are you planning on TTC soon?

DeannaCW · December 2013

MariaBend25 said: You may be more nervous over just having a kid (like I am) and this uncertainty is displaced on to the possible future actions of the grandparents? If you markedly tell him that you only punish with time-outs or taking away toys, I think he will respect that since in the end YOU are the parents. You said nothing about him being abusive or a raging drunk that would make me think he would go around your wishes and smack your kid. If anything, you can tell him that if your kids act up at his place you want to dole out the punishment, that way you don't have to defend your parenting style or choice of punishment and still get to "deal" with the issue instead of him. Ultimately this is far down the road since kids don't really start acting up, deserving actual punishment until past the toddler stage. Personally, I support the average spanking, and find this clip by comedian Russell Peters to be hilarious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CpKKQrhqkw

Nothing about him being abusive?? Did you miss the part about slaps to the face, being hit with knives, and hitting with nto just a belt, but the buckle? This man is clearly abusive, even if not a raving drunk, and there's NO guarantee he'd just respect what they say about discipline. (And also... since when is "raging drunk" a requirement for being an abuser?) He might, but this also may have to be a very hard line drawn by them. She's very right to worry in advance. From what little I know of my grandfather, I suspect he would have hurt my sisters or I. That's why my dad didn't give him the chance.

MariaBend25 · December 2013

DeannaCW said: MariaBend25 said: You may be more nervous over just having a kid (like I am) and this uncertainty is displaced on to the possible future actions of the grandparents? If you markedly tell him that you only punish with time-outs or taking away toys, I think he will respect that since in the end YOU are the parents. You said nothing about him being abusive or a raging drunk that would make me think he would go around your wishes and smack your kid. If anything, you can tell him that if your kids act up at his place you want to dole out the punishment, that way you don't have to defend your parenting style or choice of punishment and still get to "deal" with the issue instead of him. Ultimately this is far down the road since kids don't really start acting up, deserving actual punishment until past the toddler stage. Personally, I support the average spanking, and find this clip by comedian Russell Peters to be hilarious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CpKKQrhqkw

Nothing about him being abusive?? Did you miss the part about slaps to the face, being hit with knives, and hitting with nto just a belt, but the buckle? This man is clearly abusive, even if not a raving drunk, and there's NO guarantee he'd just respect what they say about discipline. (And also... since when is "raging drunk" a requirement for being an abuser?) He might, but this also may have to be a very hard line drawn by them. She's very right to worry in advance. From what little I know of my grandfather, I suspect he would have hurt my sisters or I. That's why my dad didn't give him the chance. I was taken aback by the use of the knives to whack on the knuckles, true. But slapping a child is not abuse, it is punishment. Abuse is using fists to beat a kid until bruised and bloody, whipping them for no good reason, or smacking them just for being in the way...yet harsh punishment methods are a parent's choice and are simply punishment for wrong-doings by a child, not abuse. There is a distinct difference. And the OP said the following, "Don't get me wrong - he's very proud of them and generally loving toward them, but the discipline methods seemed pretty extreme." For coming from a family that only used time-outs and never spanked, of course the FIL's punishments seem extreme to her. Even by old-time standards they are a bit extreme. She isn't concerned about him abusing her kids, but about him punishing her kids, because it is his punishment methods she doesn't like. Otherwise, if he was actually abusive I doubt she would have her kids would be over at his house unsupervised for such a long period of time to get in trouble and need to be punished to begin with.

OP - I agree with other posters, it is fine to be worried now, but doesn't necessarily need to be addressed with more than your husband until a child is at least in the womb. I don't see your FIL smacking around a baby, so that punishment discussion can occur at a later date. If still concerned he won't listen to your wishes, then don't leave your kids with him unsupervised so he doesn't have a chance to punish before you have the chance to address your kid how you and your husband decide to handle misbehavior.

MariaBend25 · December 2013

not sure why that didn't quote properly...new post starts with "I was taken aback..." in the middle of the second paragraph. sorry about that.

DeannaCW · December 2013

A firm swat on the bum is not abuse (though there will be those who disagree...). An open palm to the face is. It is not discipline. It does not have to be a thorough beating or whipping to be abuse. Being "generally loving" does not preclude one from being an abuser. Just ask my dad. Or read A Child Called It. Third worst case of child abuse in California history, and much of the abuse was "punishment" for various infractions. Harsh punishment methods very often ARE abuse. Just because the child made the parent mad does not make it non-abusive.

SmileyJay · December 2013

The fear is not irrational but you don't need to be afraid. I am not going to get into the whole corporal punishment debate because we all feel differently. After the baby is here, you will have the chance to explain how you plan to parent... you have a while to do this because no one spanks babies (right?!). There are nice ways to do this. "You are an amazing father but we plan to take a less physical approach towards discipline. I hope you understand." You want to remain respectful and not call out their parenting techniques. Everyone loves their child and wants to do the best for them... so arguing will not get you anywhere. When he said "you will spoil the child" then just say "well, we will have to be the ones to deal with that then." and stay positive and pleasant.

Grandparents are often much softer with their grand kids than their kids. They are older and they also don't have to deal with the repercussions if the kid is not well behaved. Not saying yours won't be well behaved, just in my experience... grandparents totally baby the grand kids and play the good cop.

We do not plan to use physical punishment with our own children. I was raised in a family similar to yours. My husband was spanked and doesn't agree with it. His family still does it as a primary form of punishment. I don't see it being an issue because there is no reason our child would need to be watched by his family without one of us being there... so they won't need to be disciplinarians. If your FIL is going to be babysitting a lot... then, that is a different story. This is an issue your husband would need to bring up. The argument is generally "well, our kids turned out great" and your husband can say "I was there, and it was cruel. I am not doing that. End of story."

Don't worry about this now. There will be plenty of time after a baby comes to discuss these things. It would be premature for you to talk to your FIL before even ttc.

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