unreasonable? (dinner time)

ambrvan · November 2013

Is it unreasonable for me to tell the kids they have to try two full bites of whatever we are having and then they can pick out what they don't like and if they don't want to eat it, they can go to bed?

I fixed chicken and stuffing with veggies cooked in (green beans, carrots, diced potatoes) with cream of mushroom soup and topped with cheese. Omg, I thought it was delicious. But the kids wrote it off before they even tried it. So those were the options I gave them. DS went to bed before the first bite. SD did try, and for that I thanked her, and then bowed out without a "yuck" just an "I don't think so."

Very well. Progress on her part, actually.

I don't feel bad sending them to bed without because they have eaten all day, and nothing junky really, lots of water and fruit and some yogurt. We even made some frozen yogurt apple snacks together today (that DS won't eat because he doesn't like apples, so I'll do up some bananas tonight I think).

I usually don't need confirmation of my dinner time handling. But for some reason it bothered me tonight. Maybe it's just because we've been buying heads all day.
DH and I are not on the same page as far as meals are concerned. But we have concluded to let the meal provider handle things. He just fixes them something he knows they will eat, like frozen pizza, and he does not give them something else if they refuse to eat what he fixed (that part we agree on after a rude awakening experiment). I normally cook or throw together something semi-healthy (even if still fairly processed), and I have been taking huge advantage of freeze ahead and crock pot meals the last several weeks (trying to get away from the processed convenience foods). I know it is going to take a while to change everyone's eating habits (mine have never been too bad but can always be improved upon), but in the mean time I try to cook outside the box when DH is gone to give them new things to try and then cook things I know everybody is likely to enjoy when H is home because I don't want the kids to see his bad example of refusing new foods or most vegetables. I'm trying to use the tools I have available to set them up for success, but am I doing it right?

Also, I usually ask for dinnertime input or help, but since Halloween, aall they want is candy. They only actually get one piece a day at most, but anytime you ask, that's what they want.

And FTR, I am eating a second bowl of this chicken and stuffing and it is awesome!

KendraL86 · November 2013

In our house, you eat what is cooked or you don't eat that meal. We always make healthy, balanced kid friendly meals (no liver or brussel sprouts or anything weird). We give each kid a chance to review the menu and make suggestions or changes prior to shopping. If they choose not to participate and I just happen to make something they don't find appealing, so be it. Eat it or be hungry until the next meal. I don't let them make their own food because I find that to be very disrespectful when I've taken time to plan and prepare a meal (not to mention asked for their input). Plus, the food choices they would make are not healthy or balanced (you can't eat corndogs for every meal). I know they won't stave and have had plenty of opportunity for other meals/snacks in the day.

The kids are 14 and 18 in our house though, so I expect them to be a little more tolerant of new foods and more helpful in planning if they wish to have a say in what's going on. For the most part, we don't have any problems. Since we implemented the "eat it or be hungry" rule, both girls look over the menu and make suggestions. They even help cook on occasion!

FWIW, I wouldn't send them to bed. I think that's overkill.

TradeMama · November 2013

Our policy is one bite for each year old they are. We don't make them eat things they hate-- but they have to try.

fellesferie · November 2013

I would not send them to bed unless there was something else going on (ie, back talking or... I don't know. Something.).

We see meal times like this: it's our job to provide a meal, and it's their job to eat it. If they choose not to eat it, that's fine. They have to try it, but that's all. If they don't eat their food, they don't get anything until the next meal time.

My kids are pretty great eaters. They absolutely have things they don't like, but we can take them to Thai or Indian. We took them to Epcot for Food & Wine, and they tried everything.

nevertune · November 2013

I was the pickiest of picky eaters, so I empathize with my son (6) who just hates vegetables. He will eat SO many more things than I would when I was his age, like he'll devour Indian, Persian, Japanese, and Greek. I wouldn't even try pizza or tacos until I was 15. I know which vegetables he will tolerate and he has to eat those and TRY one bite of any vegetable he doesn't like or hasn't had before. I'm kind of a sucker and fix tried and true things I know everyone will eat. My step-son (9) went from only liking fast food to thinking I'm the greatest cook ever and is delighted to at least try a bite of anything I make. He's totally my food buddy. Most kids I've met don't like mixed up food, including my son. Both kids are willing to try new meals and will give me a review. If they don't like it, they can choose something small and healthy, like applesauce, and know not to complain of hunger later.

+just+j+ · November 2013

I wouldn't send them to bed. I would just say try it, and if they choose to eat nothing or very little, then they eat nothing.

twister22 · November 2013

We provide a balanced meal and the rule is that you have to try at least one bite of everything on your plate, and if you want seconds of anything then your first plate must be cleared. DS must asked to be excused from the table. Typically if he's ate all of his food and asks to be excused then we'll excuse him, but if he still has lots of food left then we'll wait to excuse him until DH & I are done eating too.

ambrvan · November 2013

They were on their way to bed early anyway tonight because they have been awfully disresprectful and argumentative today. But I did allow them to keep their TVs on. DS was asleep in minutes, so he must have been exhausted (possibly why he was so bratty today).

And now I am enjoying some MUCH NEEDED quiet. I'm not questioning myself anymore. Can I add this as a late FFFC? I feel totally selfish now, but finally not hearing them screaming that same song over and over again and not hearing "I need a bandaid" thirty times because he took it off just to get a new one and both of them pulling that "I'm not touching you" routine is really nice.

twister22 · November 2013

ambrvan said:

They were on their way to bed early anyway tonight because they have been awfully disresprectful and argumentative today. But I did allow them to keep their TVs on. DS was asleep in minutes, so he must have been exhausted (possibly why he was so bratty today). And now I am enjoying some MUCH NEEDED quiet. I'm not questioning myself anymore. Can I add this as a late FFFC? I feel totally selfish now, but finally not hearing them screaming that same song over and over again and not hearing "I need a bandaid" thirty times because he took it off just to get a new one and both of them pulling that "I'm not touching you" routine is really nice.

Is it really a punishment if they still get to watch t.v.? With DS we typically "take away" electronics - television and LeapPad as well as sweets - anything mildly sweets related (and I use that term loosely because we don't watch much t.v. or have many sweets in this house, it's more the idea for DS that it's completely lost, no chance at getting it type thing.)

I'm not trying to flame you, I'm just wondering if you think the punishment is actually beneficial if they're still watching t.v.

I'm sorry the kids were bratty today, and I hope tomorrow's better.

Nineoceans · November 2013

My SS rarely turns away a meal and when he does we just cook him something else. We are completely blessed that he will eat a whole plate of broccoli and wants to generally eat what we eat.

He will try everything and if he doesn't like it he can politely say he doesn't and he will get chicken nuggets or something else. 1 out of 100 meals he won't like and mostly because I messed something up and made it too spicy.

I was a super picky eater as a kid and now a great eater. Dinner used to be so stressful, we fight enough battles all day I just want dinner time to be family time.

Wahoo · November 2013

My kids don't like their food mixed together. So even though they like chicken, and they like stuffing, they would not like your meal.

My kids eat the same things dh and I do, but I don't make things like casseroles because of this. I make a protein, a starch, and a veggie. They do have to try veggies, although they don't like them (even after the magical 11 tries of a new food). One eats green beans, broccoli and cauliflour. The other one eats asparagus - so I guess I'm making progress.

That being said, I do not think you were unreasonable to expect them to try one of your meals. You made dinner - - they had an opportunity to eat. If they didn't want to, it's on them. Sending kids to bed with a tv is no punishment at all. I would turn off the tv and have them read in the living room before I sent them to bed with a television

DH and I have also cracked down on snacking before meals. Even healthy snacks - - the kids eat so much that they don't eat their dinner or take forever. F! that!

PS: Reading about the meal your prepared made me hungry. It sounds delicious!

Ilumine · November 2013

Some truths

1) It can take up to 20 different tastes of a food/flavor/texture for a child's tastebuds to LIKE a new food.

2) Pressuring or bribing with dessert is not the way to go. Its condescending to the child, it can create bad eating habbits, and it gives the child the belief that s/he is actually important enough to HAVE a food battle with.

3) Americans especially serve too large of servings for adults and that trickles down to ginormous portions for their Children. Whose natural response is to look at that HUGE ASSS plate and say no upfront (subconsciously) because the also know that they are expected to clean a plate that is really the size for an adult.

4) We make awfully bland vegetables and then get pissy when the kids don't automatically like microwaved, overcooked corn and carrots.

Seriously, I love carrots. I love cooked carrots. I will never eat a warmed up carrot from a can ever again. And yes, I refuesed to eat them when I was 3 going on when I moved out of the house. And if my mother added the canned carrot into a recipe (which she did a lot), I would not eat THAT meal either.

I get that working parents have a hard time making really yummy meals with the short times. But cutting up a couple carrots and roasting them in the oven with some EVOO, salt and herbs takes an extra 2 minutes. Because you really only need 2-3 carrots for a family of 4.

I know I am sounding preachy about cooking...and that is not what I am trying to get at. But a grown-up recognized that they can push through a bland, mushy or overly salty food for convenience or weightloss sake. A kid doesn't And if you are trying to keep the kid healthy and teach them healthy eating habits and create a wide palate, then suck it and do the work.

5) Children, especially older ones, like having SOME control or ability to make choices. Meal time, especially dinners is one area where they do not get to make choices.

So if you are allowing them (even by the age of 3) more choices in the rest of their world, they may not make dinner time their last stand.

Not to mention, if you give them a choice during the meal planning, (corn medley vs roasted brussel sprouts) they will have a sense of ownership and will eat more.

6) Children ARE allowed to have food preferences. A good parent will know when the child really just doesnt like the food, is apprehensive about the food, over tired/hungry and is being difficult because of that or is being a picky eater to be a brat/test limits.

So with that being said, always meal plan with at least one portion the child will like. So you make a new chicken meal, make sure you add a veggie or starch/bread the kid will like. 10-1, once the kid eats that age/body size appropriate serving of rice, either the tire/hunger crankies will move out OR the "its dinner and I am still hungry so I will just eat rest of my plate without noticing" will kick in.

That second part will happen if you literally make that portion size of the new food small. So take the age of the kid and cut up that amount. Monkey is 4; her plates consist of 4 pre-cut, toddler size bits of the meat, of the veggie and of the starch. That ends up being the appropriate serving size for her age.

She has to finish her plate if she wants more of something. If she does not want to finish her plate, for whatever reason, then she does not have to. No arguing. No conjoling. That is just the way it is.

She is allowed her dessert (we do a healthy dessert, like banana "ice-cream", etc) no matter what she ate or did not eat. Tying food to dessert is a bad habit,

HOWEVER, if she doesn't finish her meal, but get's hungry later, she will have to have more of what is served for dinner or nothing else. And you know what...at least once a week she will eat more of what is for dinner.

This is the ONE thing I was able to control with SS and win. He came to us an extreme picky eater - partially from the power struggle with BM and partially because BM is a sucky cook (never homemade foods, always out of a jar or can).

I followed those basic rules (my aunt is a pediatric nurse practitioner and gave me guidance) and never allowed the picky eating to become a power struggle.

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ambrvan · November 2013

I don't think I intended going to bed to be a punishment. I think it was more of a "Mommy needs to eat my delicious meal in peace before I pull out my hair" thing. As other pointed out about not sending them to bed for not eating, they were also not currently at that moment being bratty. SD respectfully declined to eat after trying and DS did not want to try the first bite, but he did not scream and whine about it. He just he would rather go to his room. The ugliness was throughout most of the day, but dealt with as it came. So the TV when they went to their rooms was in fact purely motivated by a selfish need for quiet. Admitted and owned up to.

@Illumine, I really like your take on bland vegetables. Suggestions? Also, I do give the kids smaller portions, especially if it is new, but maybe they are still too big. Maybe it still looks like a "HUGE ASS plate" and is intimidating.

As a side note, I have made that dish before, and they both ate it fine that time. And for those of you with kids who don't like food mixed together, what do you do if your kids won't try everything you give them? If I don't make casseroles or skillet meals, can all but guarantee if it isn't corn and mashed potatoes, the kids will NOT eat it - or DH for that matter. But if it is mixed together, I try to eliminate things I KNOW they don't like or make it easy to pick out, but they normally are all more apt to try scoops.

hopanka · November 2013

You did fine...seems like they were just tired and not hungry. FWIW, as a born and raised European...I dont put emphasis on dinner. The main meal is lunch for us and supper is something really simple...bread w spread and some diced tomatoes or something. Your kids will be fine...you shouldnt eat anything heavy after 5 anyway.

Mkherren12 · November 2013

In our house you what's cooked or you don't eat. I try to make sure there is at least one thing everyone likes but it doesn't always work that way. As long as dd has one good meal a day I don't worry too much. She will eat when she's hungry. She won't starve herself. Dd is 7

Ilumine · November 2013

@Illumine, I really like your take on bland vegetables. Suggestions?

Pinterest side dishes. But no one can go wrong with roasting large slices of veggies in the oven, even carrots are delish.

Wahoo · November 2013

ambrvan said:

As a side note, I have made that dish before, and they both ate it fine that time. And for those of you with kids who don't like food mixed together, what do you do if your kids won't try everything you give them? If I don't make casseroles or skillet meals, can all but guarantee if it isn't corn and mashed potatoes, the kids will NOT eat it - or DH for that matter. But if it is mixed together, I try to eliminate things I KNOW they don't like or make it easy to pick out, but they normally are all more apt to try scoops.

There was definately a time when DD and DS would eat a separate meal I had prepared. Then I got tired and said I was not doing that anymore

Aside from veggies, they are good eaters. So there is literally no protein I serve they will not eat (I don't serve liver or anything strange, but chicken, pork, beef, seafood). Ditto with starch (rolls, potatos, pasta, rice).

The veggies are the hard thing. I give them VERY small servings and make them try. literally a full tablespoon. Anyone can eat that! I never make them "try" salad b/c I know they don't like it, but they have to eat raw carrots or celery sticks. DH and I just don't give them a choice. Not to be gross, but usually we become big on enforcement either when one of them has a doctor's appt and the doc encourages them to eat more veggies, or after someone is constipated.

They are vocal when they don't like things, and that is ok with me. I never use canned veggies (only frozen peas, canned or frozen corn, or canned tomatos in a recipe).

IMO, your big problem is your DH. If he turns his nose up at food, he is setting a bad example. Plus, I'm not sure it's fair to have the kids be "guinea pigs" when their own dad will not try things.

I am lucky that DH and I are literally garbage disposals - you can shove almost anything into our mouths and we will digest it. If the kids don't eat their veggies, dh and are just say "more for us!"

KTdidit · November 2013

DS has become an extremely picky eater lately and it makes dinnertime stressful every night. It's to the point that I'm concerned that he's not getting enough of anything in his system. I know part of it is that he is testing his boundaries, he is 3. I refuse to make him anything special, and he is expected to try at least one bite of everything on his plate. I made gumbo recently and told him he has to have one bite of each veggie in it. Surprisingly he liked them all except the tomatoes. He used to eat them like an apple, not if he sees one in his dinner he freaks. I don't get it. Anyway, after reading @Ilumine 's answer, I think we are expecting him to eat too much. I also struggle with which is best - making him finish what is on his plate (which could lead to overeating) or letting him get away with deciding when he is done, which means not eating barely at all (in which case I'm concerned he's not getting enough food at all, he's so damn skinny!)

Ilumine · November 2013

KTdidit said:

DS has become an extremely picky eater lately and it makes dinnertime stressful every night. It's to the point that I'm concerned that he's not getting enough of anything in his system. I know part of it is that he is testing his boundaries, he is 3. I refuse to make him anything special, and he is expected to try at least one bite of everything on his plate. I made gumbo recently and told him he has to have one bite of each veggie in it. Surprisingly he liked them all except the tomatoes. He used to eat them like an apple, not if he sees one in his dinner he freaks. I don't get it. Anyway, after reading @Ilumine 's answer, I think we are expecting him to eat too much. I also struggle with which is best - making him finish what is on his plate (which could lead to overeating) or letting him get away with deciding when he is done, which means not eating barely at all (in which case I'm concerned he's not getting enough food at all, he's so damn skinny!)

First, for kids, it is not as much about getting them to eat a well balanced diet (ie the new food pyramid) a day - but overall in the week. So if your kid gets all of his veggies/fruits in the first 3 days and spreads out his protiens and starches the rest of the week...he is good.

Second, figure out what the appropriate number of servings and serving sizes are for son actually are. Your pediatrician is the BEST place to start - not online. Yes, the FDA will have a listing, but your pedi will know what is best for your child, given his size.

So let's say that your son needs 1 ounce of protien, 2 table spoons of fruit, 2 tablespoons veggies and 4 tablespoons of rice/pasta/etc. You should cut the meat, fruit, veggies into 3 bites. You can even use a tablespoon and put individual dolops of the rice if you want.

When a child sees that they only need to eat 3 piece of meat, 3 pieces of veggie and 3 spoonfuls of pasta to be done vs the huge plate or even a solid piece of meat, it becomes less of a challenge.

agibby · December 2013

We have 5 kids between us (SS is with us e/o week) and supper used to stress us out because almost every single kid is picky. We have DS12 who has ADHD and possibly is on the high functioning autism spectrum (social issues) and he has tons of food sensitivities. We have DS10 who has ADHD and by evening, meds have worn off and he's obstinate and argumentative. DD8 and SS6 are pretty good eaters but follow in their older brothers' footsteps with some foods. DD1, well, she's at that food control stage so you know how that goes.

Anyway... while I let the food control issues go, DH grew up in a household where you didn't waste. I grew up in a household where I was made to sit at the table and finish my food, even though I was gagging. So, we made a rule years ago and posted it on the fridge.Our rule is that you have to try at least a bite. Then you can have a peanut butter sandwich, that you make yourself. In order to get dessert, you have to have a full serving of what we are eating.

Supper time is SO much easier now. Sometimes we struggle with even getting the kids to take a bite, but it ends up being their choice, and it's all under their control. That said, I don't make the kids eat anything I know they hate. Like DS12 hates tomatoes. I'm not going to make him take a bite of them before he can eat a sandwich. Instead, I will leave tomatoes on the side for the rest of us, etc.

Personally, I refuse to make my kids eat anything they don't like. They should always try something new though.

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