XP from breastfeeding board: in desperate need of encouragement

jlp0528 · November 2013

Hi ladies, this might be a longer post so I hope you'll read through it and offer any words of wisdom and encouragement. I'm starting to have negative (okay been having) feelings towards breastfeeding and sometimes my LO. Here goes nothing and thank you in advance for your help.

My LO was born 9/24- 7 lb 14 oz and did the average weight drop to 7.11 when we left the hospital and then at her 3 day check was 7.6. The doctor wasn't too worried but we had to go back in 2 weeks for a weight check because we EBF. When we went back 17 days later she was only 7.8. The doctor was concerned and recommended we see a LC and start pumping after each feeding and give her what I produced (1/2 oz to 1 1/2 depending) and said come back in 5 days. Luckily my DH was home so I could pump post feeding and he could give it to her (we use the playtex ventaire slow flow bottles).

We went to see the LC 2 days later and she was ups to 7.10 from the extra bottle feedings I'm assuming. We did a weighted feeding and she took in 2.5 oz at the breast and another 1 from the bottle. She has a deep or high roof of her mouth and a lip tie, and slight tongue tie but the LC said she didn't think it was interfering with feeding. We worked on some technique things, I rented a hospital grade pump and did the lactation cookies and oatmeal in the am to up my supply.

We went to the doctor 3 days after the LC meeting and she was up to 7.15. The doctor in the practice wasn't concerned and said all seemed well, sent us on our merry way and said see you in 2 weeks for her 1 month check.

From around that time (week 3 approximately) on she became ultra needy, wouldn't be put down, colicky like behaviors: screaming for what seemed like no reason, constantly wanting to be on the breast, though she'd arch back and act fussy there, not sleeping well at all, in fact ONLY sleeping on my chest (fast forward to today and she still is doing this), painful cries upon waking, preferring up right positions, etc. I would basically hold her near 24 hours a day.

At the 1 mo. Check the doctor was concerned she was only 8.10 and was still gaining slowly. I told her everything that had been happening and she thought it sounded like silent reflux. With the amount of rest she wasn't getting, we started Zantac 2x a day and I went dairy free totally. She said see you in 2 weeks, call in 1 week to tell me how Zantac is working, well add 1 dose a day if there's not much improvement then after that I think a GI doctor would be our next step. I called in a week because there hasn't been much improvement and we are added one dose and go back on Wednesday, next week.

Here is where I'm starting to come to the end of my tether... She still struggles with being put down in/on anything, she won't nap unless she's being held and even then it's not much or long. And the part that's really making me have negative feelings is she wants to be attached to my breasts basically from 6:30-7:30 at night until 10:30-11 when she goes to sleep. She literally uses me as a human pacifier and if she falls asleep and I remove my boob before she's really deep sleeping she SCREAMS bloody murder, like it goes right through me screams. I literally cannot do ANYTHING but sit in the recliner.

To top it off breastfeeding has begun to hurt on both sides. During the feeding and after my nipples feel like they're on fire and the tips turn white for a period of time when she's done. I constantly try to make sure she's latching well, the whole nipple is in there and she's on the breast deeply, but she often pushes back from me. She'll exhibit various behaviors from kneading my boob, to punching it, to pulling back still latched on, random whimper cries, etc.

This goes on those 3 hours or so where she seems to just want to comfort nurse. I have started to get really angry at night by hour 3 and I have negative feelings. We've tried pacifiers, tried giving her bottle with pumped milk, she HATES swaddling, nothing seems to make these feedings stop. I am so tired and uncomfortable and my h is home then to help but there's not much he can do!

I'm going to try and see the LC again Monday or Tuesday just to be reevaluated then doctor on Wednesday. I am not a quitter but at these times at night I start considering it. I reallllllyyyyy want to stick with it but I don't understand why these night feedings are happening like they are and what we can do to up her weight gain, make feeding better and make us all happier.

Any ideas of what could be making this occur? Thoughts, advice, encouragement would mean the world!

FYI: she's 6 weeks 5 days and I know this is growth spurt time but the night stuff has been going on for 2 weeks or so. Weighed her at my ILs last night and she was 8.15. Still slow gain.

Eta: she will eat happily during the day mostly and I do the compressions and massages at night and day.

happybride 276 · November 2013

I had a similar experience except I supplemented with formula and my son has been gaining weight at an excellent pace. Zantac might not be the cure for your baby's reflux. My son has been prescribed Zanrac and Prevacid and ou shows comfort when taking both. Also remember that it can take up to three weeks for dairy to fully leave your system and another three weeks to leave the baby. When I was trying to determine if dairy was an issue I still pumped but fed my son soy formula for 48 hours. He did better on soy formula, but his poo was thick so I started giving him half BM and half formula. Having a child with reflux is stressful and it tests you. You do have the choice to stop breast feeding and FF. There is no shame in trying to find ways to have a happy baby and happy mom.

sunshinern96 · November 2013

Hi! I think I may be able to at least offer some encouragement! I'm a nurse on a postpartum floor so most of my job is helping people to breastfeed...I'm also breastfeeding my DS who was born on September 6th!

My son was also started on Zantac this week for reflux. He would spit up sometimes, but mostly it was silent reflux where you would hear the spit up come up into his throat and he would scream from the pain, but then he would swallow it back down. He's taking the Zantac twice a day, in the morning and at night before his last feeding and it seems to be helping. Is your LO taking the Zantac twice a day now? If so, if you aren't doing this already, try spacing out the doses so that they are exactly 12 hours apart, like 8 am and 8 pm for example. That should help the medicine work more effectively. Also, before my DS was prescribed the Zantac, my pediatrician ordered an ultrasound to check for something called pyloric stenosis, which is basically a narrowing that can happen at the bottom of the stomach that is pretty common and needs to be surgically repaired if that is what is causing the reflux symptoms. Maybe your pediatrician might want to check for that condition just in case that is the problem...my pediatrician said it's actually pretty common so it's a good thing to just rule out. I've also heard that sometimes Zantac doesn't work. There are a lot of effective medications for reflux, so if the Zantac isn't working, you can see if the pedi can try something different.

In terms of the weight gain concerns, I actually think your baby is actually gaining just fine. My DS started at 8 lbs, dropped to 7 lbs 2 oz at his weight check like 4 days later, and was only 8 lbs 8 oz at his 1 month appointment, so only 8 oz above his original birthweight. My pediatrician never had me supplement or pump because she said that as long as they gain between 20 to 40 grams a day, they are gaining weight perfectly. Since my DS was always in that range, they said he was doing perfectly. At his 2 month appointment he was 10 lbs 6 oz. He's just going to be a little guy. They said he's in the 15th percentile but he's doing great because his weight his following the same curve. So I wouldn't worry about your baby's weight, I think it seems perfect! You can ask for them to calculate next time if she has gained 20-40 grams between the last weight and her current weight. That way, you will know if she has adequate weight gain or not. My DS actually does the same things that your DD sometimes while be breastfeeds. I think my problem is overactive letdown, especially on my right side. When he was younger, my nipple would look white sometimes because he was clamping down a little bit to slow the flow of the milk. This is called blanching and it happens when the baby is getting too much milk too fast. Then, once my letdown is over and the milk doesn't come as fast, the opposite problem happens and he gets upset sometimes because the milk isn't coming out fast enough. So then he does what your DD does and punches me, etc. Usually if I massage my breast, milk will come out a little faster again so that usually makes him happy. Sometimes when he is really punching me and starting to get irritated, I will take him off and just lay him on his belly on my chest, pat his back and shush him and he will calm down and either go to sleep or be ready to try to eat again. When I latch him back on, he causes a second quicker letdown and that usually makes him happy and he eats better. But your nipple pain I think is from her biting down to slow the flow. It got better for me when my DS got a few weeks older and better able to handle the faster flow. Now my nipples don't hurt anymore.

DS also tends to cluster feed at night like your DD. I have heard that that's pretty common. The good thing is if I let him get his fill, he will sleep a longer time at night. Hopefully your DD will start filling up in the evening but then rewarding you by sleeping better through the night. Sometimes when the cluster feeding is too intense, I will have DH give him a bath, which distracts him from eating for a while so that I'm able to have a break. It's a nice way for DH to spend time with the baby and he is happy to be able to do something to give me a few moments to myself. So maybe see if your DH wants to do bath time to give you a break? In terms of the sleeping issue, I think it all has to do with the reflux. Do you have a RNP? My DS will actually sleep in there next to our bed now, but I spent many nights letting him sleep on my chest when his reflux was really bad (and occasionally I still have to do this). Every night I let him cluster feed in the living room while I hang out w DH/watch TV, then about 930 or so DH will bathe him. I feed him again with the lights out in our bed at 10 ish. I let him fall asleep at the breast, then gently take him off and swaddle him. He's not the biggest swaddle fan either but he's gotten used to it and honestly needs a tight swaddle to sleep. Then I hold him swaddled on my chest for a while to help w the reflux. Then I put him in the RNP and he's usually down for the night. Sorry this got so incredibly long but I just wanted to help!! Let me know if you have questions!!

sunshinern96 · November 2013

I'm so sorry my paragraphs didn't break up!!...Nevermind, fixed it!

Skalbrecht · November 2013

Breast feeding is so hard - probably one of the most challenging aspects if being a mom! Kudos to you for sticking with it this far, but if you are constantly stressing and not feeling well, then remember ff is absolutely ok! Lots of babies thrive and have happy mommas - you need to do what is best for BOTH of you. Taking care if yourself is so important.
No advice regarding the reflux, but in regards to always wanting to be held have you tried wearing her, in a moby or something where she is close? That may help free up your arms at least for a while.
Also assuming since you said pacifiers you have tried several different types? I know some babies are particular about which ones they will take (or not take at all).
Remember you are a good mom - it sounds like you are doing everything you can to take care of your LO!

SweetPeaK26 · November 2013

Ill just toss out that dd did the constant evening nursing thing from 1.5 weeks till about 5 weeks. Then she started doing the screaming thing all evening.

Ill agree you probably have some othe issues that ARE bf related, but I think some of what you are experiencing is also just regular baby behavior.

waterfall11 · November 2013

I'm so sorry you are struggling with this! Breastfeeding has been really difficult for me with both my girls. With the first I only made it to 2 months. At that point we finally got the diagnosis of lip and tongue tie and had those clipped. DD2 also had a lip and tongue tie and we had both clipped at 6 days old and breastfeeding has been much better this time (although still a bit challenging). I don't think your LC can say that the lip tie and tongue tie aren't affecting breastfeeding (especially when your LO hasn't been gaining well) and highly recommend you get them clipped by an ENT or dentist who has experience in this area. It doesn't make things perfect immediately- with DD2 it was about 5 more days to nurse without pain- but the ultimate difference is night and day. I can't relate to the needy side but I know that having issues breastfeeding and being in pain all the time makes everything a little harder to deal with. Hang in there!

ETA: I have also heard reflux can be related to lip and tongue ties. Didn't make a difference for DD1- she still had it after being clipped- but maybe it would for your daughter.

MamaInMN · November 2013

I could have written this post, almost word for word! Feel free to PM me if you want to vent more...

I don't think the weight gain sounds too slow, however. If I'm reading right, she gained 11 oz in a week, right (from week 3 to 1 month)? That's really good! My midwife and ped both want to see a gain of about .5 to 1 oz a day. Also, if she took in 2.5 at the breast, that's great!

I second trying to have DH or someone else take her during those fussy evenings to see if you can distract her. I think even being around the smell of breastmilk sometimes turns my DD into a mad woman. But I do think this is a really normal thing and she will outgrow it. I say that knowing that just a few weeks ago I felt the same as you, but we now just have fussy feedings that last a little longer, instead of going all evening!

We're getting our LO checked for a lip tie on Thursday (thanks to @waterfall11 !). I've also had tons of pain during and in between feedings so I know how you feel! Last week I got a prescription for a compounded nipple cream and that's helped a little. Maybe you can call your OB for something similar?

Good luck! If you end up switching to formula, that's ok! I'm at the point (dd is 10 weeks) where I will stick with it because I'm stubborn for the next month but if we don't find answers, I gotta throw in the towel at some point too! Take care of yourself, you are doing a great job!!

MamaInMN · November 2013

twolittlewheels said:

@MamaInMN I'm sure the ENT will check, but if a baby has a lip tie, they are always tongue tied as well. Both can greatly effect their latch. DS's ENT didn't want to clip his lip tie until after we tried just clipping his tongue and seeing how that goes for a bit since the lip bleeds more and causes more pain while it heals.

@twolittlewheels - thanks, I didn't know that! I had assumed she didn't have a tongue tie because she can stick her tongue out really far. But when I looked at her lip, it definitely looks like pictures I've seen online (in my oh so scientific opinion). We aren't going to an ENT, but an IBCLC who is also a nurse-midwife. I'm hoping she can help us and then refer us to an ENT! I've heard it's hard to find someone who will clip them - did you have trouble finding someone? Was it covered by insurance?

waterfall11 · November 2013

MamaInMN said:

twolittlewheels said:

@MamaInMN I'm sure the ENT will check, but if a baby has a lip tie, they are always tongue tied as well. Both can greatly effect their latch. DS's ENT didn't want to clip his lip tie until after we tried just clipping his tongue and seeing how that goes for a bit since the lip bleeds more and causes more pain while it heals.

@twolittlewheels - thanks, I didn't know that! I had assumed she didn't have a tongue tie because she can stick her tongue out really far. But when I looked at her lip, it definitely looks like pictures I've seen online (in my oh so scientific opinion). We aren't going to an ENT, but an IBCLC who is also a nurse-midwife. I'm hoping she can help us and then refer us to an ENT! I've heard it's hard to find someone who will clip them - did you have trouble finding someone? Was it covered by insurance?

There are different classes of tongue ties and varying severity. DD1 couldn't stick her tongue out but still wasn't diagnosed because hers wasn't one of the more commonly recognized types of tongue tie. DD2 could stick hers out so I didn't automatically think tongue tie when we had difficulties but hers was. We paid OOP for DD1 at the dentist but it was covered for DD2 at the ENT we went to (just paid our copay). They can tell you in advance if it will be covered and cost. Good luck with your appointment!

313Meg · November 2013

Sounds similar to us. I'm sorry mama!! It's hard but you are doing awesome!!

Right around 3 weeks LO started with his colic. He had silent reflux from the beginning. I slept on a recliner for a month and had HIGH anxiety for the whole time... He could cry and I cold do nothing to soothe him. The idea of me trying to sleep in bed was all that I wanted and have him sleep in/on something other than me!!! Zantac did NOT work for us. He is on Prilosec.

Ok so this is my 2cents. Prilosec helps... Now. LO will not sleep in anything that I have bought him (bassinet, pnp, RnP, swing, bouncer) nothing! He has started to sleep a little longer at night where I'm getting an hr to hr and half at a time. Max 4-5 hrs a night. We bed share. (He has a apnea monitor which does give me a little more peace).
My bf has been a battle as well. Have you tried a shield? I know when I use my shield he does a lot less arm flailing, pulling, fussing etc. We finally graduated off the shield about 2 weeks ago. My nipples are KILLING ME so I definitely use the shield at night to give me a break too. They are pretty affordable, worth a try.
LO is almost 10 weeks and I feel we started turning a small corner at 8 weeks. It's still not perfect at all!!!!! But the stress of how difficult it is... Is a little more tolerable.

Good luck mama. Try the shield?

chin up!!

Nukke · November 2013

I don't have any additional medical advice to give, but just wanted to say that you're doing a great job. Breastfeeding has been the most difficult part of being a mom for me by far. The only thing I'd say is that if you need a break during those many hours at night that you're being used as a human pacifier, then take it. It's hard to listen to our babies scream, but you need to look after yourself if you're at the end of your tether. Give LO to your DH to deal with-even just 20 min can make a world of differences but try for an hour if you can. LO will scream, but your DH will be there and you'll be back soon enough. Take a relaxing bath or just get in a nap. Do whatever you need to do to recharge your batteries physically and psychologically. Again, you're doing an awesome job, and your dedication to your LO is going to pay off for the both of you soon. Good luck.

jlp0528 · November 2013

Thanks for all the positive thoughts, stories, ideas and advice ladies. It feels so good to have all of your support and remember I'm truly not alone in this, lots of you have similar pains and issues you're going through. It makes me feel so much better.

@Nukke breastfeeding is definitely the hardest part of motherhood and I think one of the hardest things I've ever done period.

@MamaInMN I definitely will take you up on your offer when I find myself at my wits end again. I have an appointment with the pedi on Wednesday and will have to ask them to look at her lip/tongue ties again and see what her thoughts are and if not start looking for a reputable child dentist and/or ENT.

@jrj21 -- she sometimes will lay in the RNP but it usually doesn't last long. This weekend we were at my ILs and she actually napped in it for about an hour, but I had to literally rock her the whole time, which defeats the purpose of being able to put her down! LOL

@twolittlewheels-- thanks for the advice... with getting the tie fixed, did you see the ENT first or to the dentist? Did your doctor recommend it or did you take him based on instinct/what you saw?

jlp0528 · November 2013

@313Meg-- how long did you try Zantac before switching to Prilosec? We have the nipple shield they gave me in the hospital when I first tried to breast feed, one of the nurses said it would help with flat nipples. Another nurse (an older woman) and the LC were adamant that I really wouldn't end up needing it because she'd end up drawing the nipple out. Which it has happened, but DAMN they hurt after hour long stints when she cluster feeds at night. Do these cluster feeds ever end???

@Skalbrecht-- we had 3 different kinds, she tolerates the soothie, but at night at this time (which she currently is and has been doing for the last 25 minutes so far) is she just wants my nipples. Ugh. I bought a different kind by Playtex to try, since she uses the bottles for taking breast milk when I have class.

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