How old should discipline be implimented?

Jbosarge85 · November 2013

What age do you think a child should start to be disciplined, such as time outs?

Jbosarge85 · November 2013

I'm watching nanny 911 and it got me thinking. When should discipline start? My DD is only 10 months old so obviously it's a little early. But I'm curious based on your experience when is the best time to start.

Emerald27 · November 2013

Infants aren't capable of manipulation, and all their wants are identical with their needs...so "disciplining" an infant makes no sense. At that stage, there's no "discipline," just baby proofing.

At some point during the second year, baby's wants extend beyond his needs, and sometimes to things he really can't have. That's when I think discipline starts. But to me, discipline and punishment are very different. Discipline is more about teaching patience, appropriate behavior, and the give and take of life. We are very gentle parents.

Now that DS is 2 and very much asserting his independence, when he crosses any known boundaries, we discipline with "time in's" or by following the logical consequence of his actions, explaining things carefully to him as we go. Even now, it's important to discern the cause of his actions and to address their roots (if he needs more one-on-one time, more attention, a break, a nap, if he's just frustrated with his inability to communicate), and we talk a lot about our feelings. :P

PhieryBFly · November 2013

Some new schools of thought are against traditional discipline and instead advocate gentle parenting combined with logical consequences. My daughter is only 8 months old but I think I'm going to attempt that method. https://evolutionaryparenting.com/review-the-gentle-parent-positive-practical-effective-discipline/

=Lee=B · November 2013

Positive guidance should be used from the start. It's about teaching the children. My 8 month old has a killer sucker punch. She has no clue she's doing it...but she's nearly knocked my husband off his feet! So, we spend a lot of time saying "gentle, like this" and holding her hand and showing her how to touch gently.

As they grow its logical consequences. If they draw on the wall they help wipe it clean. They push a friend over, they help pick them up and calm them. Again, for the most part the children are not trying to act 'bad' and time outs won't solve anything...they need to learn to help fix what they did wrong so they learn the consequence of their actions.

As they reach age 2.5-3ish sometimes they need to be removed from a situation...not a time out but to be removed to prevent further issues. The adult needs to calmly explain why and discuss it after. For example...if a child is upset and is throwing things the can receive a warning that if they continue to throw toys they will need to leave the room. If they throw again they leave to be removed from the area. The adult goes with them and talks about it and everyone moves on.

I am not a fan of time outs. Children, of any age, do not learn from a time out. most will sit there thinking about how mean the adult is that put them there...because truly, in their eyes they did no wrong. They just don't have that understanding.

I believe in being clear, consistent, and firm but gentle and understanding with children of all ages. I think all children need to learn and respect the word "no" and to understand their are rules and there are adults that have the power to make rules. But, this is done peacefully from a very early age through natural consequences, clear expectations and a lot of patience. As the adult it is our responsibility to prevent most negative behaviors this is largely through ensuring our children are fed and well rested (both these are huge factors in behavior). Through teaching what behaviors are acceptable and ensuring we give our children the skills they need to behave acceptably.

I think I started rambling here...not sure I actually answered your question!!

TiffanyBerry · November 2013

I voted one year, but I don't think of discipline as time outs (we don't use them). I think of discipline as teaching, and should be geared to that. So, it really starts as early as they need it (six months old and biting while nursing, for instance), and should remain in constant balance with their individual development levels.

ncbelle · November 2013

=Lee=B said:

Positive guidance should be used from the start. It's about teaching the children. My 8 month old has a killer sucker punch. She has no clue she's doing it...but she's nearly knocked my husband off his feet! So, we spend a lot of time saying "gentle, like this" and holding her hand and showing her how to touch gently.
As they grow its logical consequences. If they draw on the wall they help wipe it clean. They push a friend over, they help pick them up and calm them. Again, for the most part the children are not trying to act 'bad' and time outs won't solve anything...they need to learn to help fix what they did wrong so they learn the consequence of their actions.
As they reach age 2.5-3ish sometimes they need to be removed from a situation...not a time out but to be removed to prevent further issues. The adult needs to calmly explain why and discuss it after. For example...if a child is upset and is throwing things the can receive a warning that if they continue to throw toys they will need to leave the room. If they throw again they leave to be removed from the area. The adult goes with them and talks about it and everyone moves on.
I am not a fan of time outs. Children, of any age, do not learn from a time out. most will sit there thinking about how mean the adult is that put them there...because truly, in their eyes they did no wrong. They just don't have that understanding.
I believe in being clear, consistent, and firm but gentle and understanding with children of all ages. I think all children need to learn and respect the word "no" and to understand their are rules and there are adults that have the power to make rules. But, this is done peacefully from a very early age through natural consequences, clear expectations and a lot of patience. As the adult it is our responsibility to prevent most negative behaviors this is largely through ensuring our children are fed and well rested (both these are huge factors in behavior). Through teaching what behaviors are acceptable and ensuring we give our children the skills they need to behave acceptably.
I think I started rambling here...not sure I actually answered your question!!

Agree

Also not a time out fan - they aren't logical and frequently just become a battle of wills - that teaches nothing positive. "Discipline" means to "lead" not to "punish" - so in that sense, we start "discipline" from the start - we are always teaching our children what it is to love and care for someone else from the day they are born. As baby gets older and starts "getting into things," we use redirection to show them what they can do. Certainly now that my kids are getting older - Callum is almost 5 - sometimes the situation warrants being more explicit about consequences as he is now old enough to make choices and to begin to understand making a "bad" choice over a "good" one.

musicalmama5 · November 2013

I loved reading all these responses! Lots of good food for thought. Any good gentle discipline book recommendations, ladies?

Jbosarge85 · November 2013

Thanks for the responses ladies. Very insightful, I'll have to look more into some of the suggestions.

Emerald27 · November 2013

When we use time outs, they're better described as breaks or "time ins".

When DS gets frustrated with his blocks and starts to throw them or push them, or if he is being too rough with a friend, or if he is frustrated with his inability to communicate and his struggle managing the strong toddler emotions, I ask him to take a break and come sit with me (sometimes I have to go get him and make him come sit with me if he's grumping or ignoring me). I'll offer to nurse or if he kicks and screams I'll hug him close. He sits with me until he calms down and I let him know that that's what we're doing; taking a break to calm down so we can try again. We'll talk about his feelings, his actions, some other options, etc.

So this is what "time out" is for us. It really works well for DS. I would never send him to his room or make him sit on a "time out chair" or something like that, though. Those are "punishments" that really have no connection to his actions, and there's really no opportunity for learning in them. I want him to use his words and ask for help putting on his shoes instead of screaming and throwing them at the wall...and I want the reason to be because he knows that's what is appropriate, not because if he does the wrong thing, he knows he'll be punished.

How would making him sit on a chair teach him the appropriate way to react in a situation? When there's no threat of time out anymore (i.e. College or other adult life situation) would he have the self-discipline to still do what is right and best? Ok. Off soap box. :P

Jbosarge85 · November 2013

Usually when I've done time outs when babysitting or when my 9 yr old stepson is with us. I send them to time out to think about what they did or to calm down (my stepson is autistic so he has a lot of meltdowns for no reason, usually for him it's so he can calm down). I then have them come over to me so we can talk about it, we talk about what was done that caused them to be put in time out and then what they should do in the future if they are faced with the same issue. Like I was watching a little boy who grabbed a crayon and wrote on the wall, so I put him in time out and then talked to him and told him writing on walls was not ok and that if he wants to color he needs to ask me for a coloring book. I then gave him a coloring book to let him know that they are available he just needs to ask.

=Lee=B · November 2013

Emerald27:

About 7 years ago while in College we read a book about "Time-Ins" it is exactly what you described doing. It is certainly not a 'time-out' and it is such a powerful way of helping your toddler through the difficult toddler years. You are showing empathy, acknowledging his overwhelming emotions and giving him confidence in not only himself but in you and letting him know no matter how rough things are Mommy is there to help him through. What a great post to read!!

I have no idea what the book was called and who wrote it. I would think the title had Time-In's in it but it pretty much summed up what you describe doing!

KateLouise · November 2013

I don't define discipline as punishment. to me personal discipline is about personal control and follow through on commitments etc etc.

So to my mind discipline starts from Day 1. I continually try to model personal discipline; appropriate behaviour in appropriate situations, making the best choices in my day to day life, following through on my day to day life with integrity and reliability. (I am in no way suggesting I succeed 100% of the time, but this is merely my goal)

In terms of consequences, I try to make consequences logical. There is no fixed amount of time to my consequences. So say LO bites me, I simply say, "ouch that hurt. We don't bite each other." (modeling control and clear communication of my expectations). LO bites again, and I say, "If you're going to bite then you'll have to get off my knee.' (modelling boundary setting) and put LO off my knee. LO inevitably wails, at which point I tell them that they're welcome to be on my knee, but only if they won't be biting.

So I guess that starts as early as they start to display physically hurtful behaviours. If it's pinching, then I'll take their hands and demonstrate gentle stroking or patting.

As they get older, I'll put them in their room, or away from me, but again for no set length of time, just long enough for me to have a breather.

Like I said, I don't think I get it right all the time, and sometimes I make mistakes, but generally this approach has worked for us (so far, as we are very early on in our parenting journey ...our eldest will be 4 in January)

pixieprincss · November 2013

Discipline in the sense of gentle correction and/or redirection can begin as soon as the child needs it--a baby who may bite during nursing or a crawler who pulls on a power cord. As far as a forced, isolated time outs, those don't fit with our gentle discipline strategy and IMO don't align with anything I know about child development. We do time-in, which is appropriate at any age. Here's more on why time-outs aren't a fit for us.

laciegregory · November 2013

I think we all underestimate our children's ability to reason. (after a certain age of course) But they are smart little creatures and constantly testing the boundaries. And we don't even realize it half the time. Discipline is natural. Literally everything in nature uses discipline to teach their young. I think discipline is just a matter of getting their attention. Maybe that's getting down on their level (which is like a magic trick for my LO) or a swat on the hand when I've already said no ten times. Whatever it takes to get their attention that there are boundaries and you are willing to enforce them. And be consistent - don't say no if you're not willing to get up and make them stop what they're doing.

As far as biting goes, my older child (now almost 5) only bit me once, and it hurt and I bit her back, and that was the end of biting.

We have done some time-outs, I usually did 1 minute for every year, I think it was helpful to take a minute and think about what we did and then talk about how we can do it different next time.

I also swat her on the fanny sometimes too. But like I said whatever it takes to get their attention. And feel like I should add that we have a very well behaved and well mannered LO.

erbear · November 2013

fredalina said:

I think we all underestimate our children's ability to reason. (after a certain age of course) But they are smart little creatures and constantly testing the boundaries. And we don't even realize it half the time. Discipline is natural. Literally everything in nature uses discipline to teach their young. I think discipline is just a matter of getting their attention. Maybe that's getting down on their level (which is like a magic trick for my LO) or a swat on the hand when I've already said no ten times. Whatever it takes to get their attention that there are boundaries and you are willing to enforce them. And be consistent - don't say no if you're not willing to get up and make them stop what they're doing.
As far as biting goes, my older child (now almost 5) only bit me once, and it hurt and I bit her back, and that was the end of biting.

We have done some time-outs, I usually did 1 minute for every year, I think it was helpful to take a minute and think about what we did and then talk about how we can do it different next time.

I also swat her on the fanny sometimes too. But like I said whatever it takes to get their attention. And feel like I should add that we have a very well behaved and well mannered LO.
You realize this is the AP board, right?

This made me LOL.

OP: My girls are 3 and 5, so at a different place but we use timeouts in their rooms to calm down. They both go up, get in bed with their loveys and come back down when they are ready. It's not a punishment so much as teaching the skill of calming down one's body.

musicalmama5 · November 2013

I think we all underestimate our children's ability to reason. (after a certain age of course) But they are smart little creatures and constantly testing the boundaries. And we don't even realize it half the time. Discipline is natural. Literally everything in nature uses discipline to teach their young. I think discipline is just a matter of getting their attention. Maybe that's getting down on their level (which is like a magic trick for my LO) or a swat on the hand when I've already said no ten times. Whatever it takes to get their attention that there are boundaries and you are willing to enforce them. And be consistent - don't say no if you're not willing to get up and make them stop what they're doing.
As far as biting goes, my older child (now almost 5) only bit me once, and it hurt and I bit her back, and that was the end of biting.

We have done some time-outs, I usually did 1 minute for every year, I think it was helpful to take a minute and think about what we did and then talk about how we can do it different next time.

I also swat her on the fanny sometimes too. But like I said whatever it takes to get their attention. And feel like I should add that we have a very well behaved and well mannered LO.
You realize this is the AP board, right?

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Emerald27 · November 2013

I am trying to imagine what telling my 2 year old to sit still for 2 minutes would look like. I think I'd need a time out myself (plus a strong drink and a long cry) after attempting that one. :P This sweet kid can't sit still for 10 seconds, and after 15, he's forgotten what he was up to and has already moved onto the third or fourth thing.

laciegregory · November 2013

woops. wrong board.

pitterpatter129 · November 2013

Even though we are very AP oriented, each kid is different. We started time outs with DS1 around 14 months when redirection simply did not work anymore. Anytime we told him no, he giggled and purposely did it anyhow. Time outs worked great for him. Some kids don't respond well to time outs at all and something else would be needed. Just do what feels right for your family.

pitterpatter129 · November 2013

Emerald27 said:

I am trying to imagine what telling my 2 year old to sit still for 2 minutes would look like. I think I'd need a time out myself (plus a strong drink and a long cry) after attempting that one. :P This sweet kid can't sit still for 10 seconds, and after 15, he's forgotten what he was up to and has already moved onto the third or fourth thing.

Our time outs (at home and in my classroom) have never involved sitting still. I make him stay in a chair. He's usually upside down and/or backwards in it. Wiggling, talking, etc. He just needs to stay in one place for a few minutes so *I* can calm down really and so he can be away from whatever he was doing. I don't think making them sit perfectly still is realistic at all.

Emerald27 · November 2013

Saw this today and it made me think of this thread:

neverblushed · November 2013

To me, discipline has much more to do with teaching than with punishment.

I guess I first began to discipline my oldest when she began to crawl at 9 months. She crawled straight over to the stereo speaker and began to poke her fingers into the fabric cover. I had to do something about it -- it's not like they were something we could lock away. I picked her up and moved her away and said, "No -- you can't touch the speakers that way. It hurts them." Naturally, when I put her down and tried to redirect her, she dropped whatever toy I handed her and headed back to the speaker. Then I had to pick her up and tell her "no," and she cried because she really wanted to touch that speaker, and I wasn't letting her. I had to work a little harder to redirect her that time, but she didn't get to touch the speaker. Eventually, she figured out that she wasn't going to be allowed to press on them. She did get a chance to touch them in ways that didn't hurt them, and to see what the speaker covers looked and felt like -- just not by poking them!

To me, that's the start of discipline. It would never occur to me to say "well, she's not even 1 year old, so it's not time to discipline. I just have to suck it up and let her touch the speaker." But it also wouldn't occur to me to punish her or yell at her for wanting to explore her world!

Over the years, people have remarked that I am a "strict" parent, which I find interesting because I rarely punish my children. I rarely yell at them, or even raise my voice. I never used time outs. However, I do have very high expectations for my kids in terms of their conduct. I expect them to display the best citizenship skills that are reasonable for their ages. When they make mistakes (which happens often, as they're typical kids) I don't get upset and angry. I try not to let it bother or fluster me. I just manage the situation so that my child faces the natural consequences for those mistakes.

I think if you wait until age 2 or 3 to discipline your child, it's way too late. If you start with the teaching part of discipline much earlier than that, by the time you get to the difficult years at 2 and 3, you've already laid the groundwork, and you aren't in as many situations where you have to resort to traditional punishment.

=Lee=B · November 2013

Over the years, people have remarked that I am a "strict" parent, which I find interesting because I rarely punish my children. I rarely yell at them, or even raise my voice. I never used time outs. However, I do have very high expectations for my kids in terms of their conduct. I expect them to display the best citizenship skills that are reasonable for their ages. When they make mistakes (which happens often, as they're typical kids) I don't get upset and angry. I try not to let it bother or fluster me. I just manage the situation so that my child faces the natural consequences for those mistakes.

When I was doing my teacher training I spent 4 months student teaching with a 'Strict' grade 5-6 teacher. She was army strict. But she NEVER raised her voice, never yelled at a child, never insulted, ridiculed, or punished a child. The kids, even the toughest 'problem' students LOVED this teacher. They knew that in her classroom she was boss, that they would be expected to behave in a certain way, that they would not get away with anything and that they were loved and safe. The toughest, most 'problematic' kids thrived, they came early and stayed late...they would do anything for her. But, my goodness she was STRICT!

She was absolutely amazing. Children NEED someone that is firm, consistent, predictable yet loving, kind, gentle. They need someone to teach them, help them, that will be patient and give them direction, time and space to figure out how to properly behave in this really big, scary world. No means no, as a mother I will have to say no...but I don't have to punish, ridicule, or ignore my child's needs to be the boss.

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