How to say no - XP from Working Moms

MomtobeNJ · October 2013

I originally posted this on the Working Moms board, but I'd like your opinions too because you're "my board." Anyone care to weigh in?

My boss called me today (he works out of a different office) to tell me he would be leaving our company in mid-December. He told me they will be advertising for his position and recruiting external candidates, but he also strongly encouraged me to consider applying. I am extremely flattered, of course. He and I have had several conversations about the possibility of moving up in our company when an opportunity arose. I would definitely enjoy the work itself and the pay increase that goes along with it, of course.

However, there is no way I can take that job now. As I mentioned, his position works out of a different office and there is a totally different culture over there. On average, they work from about 9 - 10 am to 7 - 8 pm because those are the hours our President keeps. There are often evening events all over the state. My husband works nights so I am solely responsible for the baby Monday - Thursday evenings. Daycare closes at 6 so I need to be heading out by 5:30 at the latest to pick her up. It's just not a good fit right now. I considered throwing my hat in the ring anyway and telling them I would love to be considered for the job if I can maintain my current schedule. I can even arrange for a babysitter a few times a month for evening events. My concern is that they will say yes now, but when push comes to shove and there are deadlines and meetings and emergencies, they will frown upon me always being the first one out the door. I mean, my husband will be at work. I HAVE to leave to get her before daycare closes, no matter what.

So finally, here is the question part of my post: what is the best way to word this? Do I simply say that my schedule just doesn't allow for this kind of position right now, but I would like to be considered for other opportunities in the future? And if they do promise me flexibility and say I can keep my current schedule (which I wouldn't trust because I know how they operate), what do I say then?

MommaP12 · October 2013

Oh man, this is tough.

Can you explain to your current boss that you are very interested in the role but need the schedule to remain as it is due to scheduling conflicts with your husband's hours and because of that, does he think you should not go for it? Basically, explain the situation to him and ask for advice since he's leaving? I don't know what your relationship is like with him and if you'd feel comfortable doing that. Maybe you can get in writing that your schedule will not change if you get it too?

Otherwise, I HATE to say this, but it sounds like it's just not good timing for you to have that type of position.

UGH. I don't even want to say that!!

hmp1 · October 2013

If you don't trust what they say, and the hours the person in that position is putting in doesn't match up with what you want/can do, then I would pass with letting everyone know that you are interested in moving into that position in a few years when you can dedicate the time required (if that is what you want in the future).

I was over a large group when I worked in the TX office. One of my best associates, that I was always encouraging to apply for management positions, kept turning me down because she was getting her masters and didn't want to have to not put in the same hours at work as the other managers because of her time devoted to school. As soon as she graduated, she applied for the next manager position that opened and we gave her the job. We knew why she was waiting and respected her for not trying to do it all when she knew she couldn't.

MomtobeNJ · October 2013

I have a very good relationship with him and I was planning to be totally honest with him about my hesitation. So that's good.

Like I said, I'm just concerned that they might promise me the moon and the stars right now, but it may not be the reality once I'm a few months in. I don't want to be known as the one who always has to bail. I would essentially be missing a third of the work day with my boss and colleagues. Obviously I would still put in my minimum 8.5 hours, but I'll be leaving around 5 and they work until 7-8 almost every night.

Right now I generally work 8 - 5. If I have work to do I have no problem coming in early, but I would be alone. Staying late is just not an option and I'm not sure they would really understand/accept that.

MomtobeNJ · October 2013

@hmp1 - I appreciate the perspective and I hope that's what will happen with me. I hope they actually will consider me later on and not just think "Oh, well she has a kid now, she can't put the hours in."

ktnicole · October 2013

Like MommaP12 said, ask his opinion. "I'm concerned about the hours, if they can make it work is it realistic and will it work out?" I agree with hmp, they will appreciate your honesty and thought to the commitment they need.

Hyaline · October 2013

First, giant kudos for taking a look at your work/life balance and making a decision that's going to be best for YOU and not just because it's a good career move. I've seen so many people take good career moves and end up miserable because the move didn't jibe with the rest of their lives.

I would do as you suggest--explain that the hours and lack of flexibility you perceive would make the position untenable for you, particularly at this time, but that you're invested in this company and in advancing your career within it. If your perception is off (per them) you've shown your interest and that you're putting the company first. If working the hours you need is an absolute no-go, you'll show that you're responsible by pulling yourself from consideration.

And I'm an asshole, but...if I took the position on the promise of working the hours I needed and later discovered that they had been less than forthright about flexibility, I'd say eff it and work the hours I could work. Hell, I always got my best work done before others got into the office, lol! If you're doing good work, a decent boss (IMO) will not care when it's getting done, and will realize that the reason you're leaving at 5 is because you were in at 8. That's not "bailing." That's working earlier hours.

kelbel527 · October 2013

I would let your current boss know your concerns and get advice. How flexible is your company on where you get your work done? I work a lot of late hours but there are some nights that I just can't stay late. (Every Thursday). I work from home after the kids go to bed. (Frankly even when I do work late, I still work from home...ugh).

Also - I put it on my calendar when I have to pick up the kids. I block it off starting at 5:30 and if I'm gone one night, my boss can easily see on my calendar that I have to pick up. But she's flexible so she knows I'll get my stuff done from home. And it's not uncommon for me to get phone calls while I'm in the middle of making dinner and then jump online while the kids are eating to work on something.

If that were to happen every night - it would be harder. But it happens and I am able to work a job that requires more hours while still balancing the kiddos. I was promoted into my current role knowing it would be a challenge about 6 months ago.

At the end of the day - the only thing I wouldn't do is say nothing. If you're interested in moving up - let is be known. If this isn't the right opportunity now - that's okay, but it let's them know you're interested.

Good luck with whatever path you take!

eshee8198 · October 2013

Well, if you don't trust that they'll keep your schedule, or you don't think you could be seen as successful without expanding your schedule, and you don't want to expand your schedule, don't apply.

if you want to explain why, just summarize what you've said here:

"I'm flattered that you've considered me for the position, and its definitely something I'll be interested in in the future. Unfortunately, my schedule isn't very flexible at the moment, and I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to put in the extra hours that would be expected in a position at this level."

And if they're still pushing for you to apply, see what they're willing to do for you.

MomtobeNJ · November 2013

So helpful. Thank you for your input, everyone.

They are somewhat flexible with our work hours and I have no problem going in early - SUPER early if there is work that needs to be done. And I agree...I love to have the office to myself early so I can really concentrate without distractions. To some degree, I do think they have the mentality of "as long as your work is getting done."

I'm going to have a frank discussion with my boss next week and try to get a read on him. I do think he'll be honest with me.

I'll keep you posted!

MeatballEsq · November 2013

Hyaline said:
First, giant kudos for taking a look at your work/life balance and making a decision that's going to be best for YOU and not just because it's a good career move. I've seen so many people take good career moves and end up miserable because the move didn't jibe with the rest of their lives.

I would do as you suggest--explain that the hours and lack of flexibility you perceive would make the position untenable for you, particularly at this time, but that you're invested in this company and in advancing your career within it. If your perception is off (per them) you've shown your interest and that you're putting the company first. If working the hours you need is an absolute no-go, you'll show that you're responsible by pulling yourself from consideration.

And I'm an asshole, but...if I took the position on the promise of working the hours I needed and later discovered that they had been less than forthright about flexibility, I'd say eff it and work the hours I could work. Hell, I always got my best work done before others got into the office, lol! If you're doing good work, a decent boss (IMO) will not care when it's getting done, and will realize that the reason you're leaving at 5 is because you were in at 8. That's not "bailing." That's working earlier hours.

That is how it would work ideally, but it definitely doesn't everywhere. I am much more a morning person but it doesn't matter if I got into the office everyday at 6:30 am and left at 6, the people I worked for still thought they worked harder being there from 9:30-8. Go figure.

Dawn I would have a frank discussion with your boss, but if the other office has a different corporate culture it will be hard to change that and you don't want your coworkers resenting you or you being unhappy

good luck!

melody921 · November 2013

I would talk to your boss first. Explain that the schedule you currently work is what is feasible for you. Express that you're definitely interested in new opportunities and appreciate being told about this, but that you are simply unable to work evenings routinely. See what he says. I know I'd be uncomfortable taking a job if I felt that everyone was going to be looking at me sideways when I left at 5:30.

Hyaline · November 2013

tonir319 said:

First, giant kudos for taking a look at your work/life balance and making a decision that's going to be best for YOU and not just because it's a good career move. I've seen so many people take good career moves and end up miserable because the move didn't jibe with the rest of their lives.

I would do as you suggest--explain that the hours and lack of flexibility you perceive would make the position untenable for you, particularly at this time, but that you're invested in this company and in advancing your career within it. If your perception is off (per them) you've shown your interest and that you're putting the company first. If working the hours you need is an absolute no-go, you'll show that you're responsible by pulling yourself from consideration.

And I'm an asshole, but...if I took the position on the promise of working the hours I needed and later discovered that they had been less than forthright about flexibility, I'd say eff it and work the hours I could work. Hell, I always got my best work done before others got into the office, lol! If you're doing good work, a decent boss (IMO) will not care when it's getting done, and will realize that the reason you're leaving at 5 is because you were in at 8. That's not "bailing." That's working earlier hours.
That is how it would work ideally, but it definitely doesn't everywhere. I am much more a morning person but it doesn't matter if I got into the office everyday at 6:30 am and left at 6, the people I worked for still thought they worked harder being there from 9:30-8. Go figure. Dawn I would have a frank discussion with your boss, but if the other office has a different corporate culture it will be hard to change that and you don't want your coworkers resenting you or you being unhappy good luck!

Yeah, and that's why I am an asshole--because I truly don't care. If people give me funky looks, eff it. Now, if there's stuff happening late in the day that you're skipping--meetings, events--that's different. But just "that's when people are sitting at their desks working?" It wouldn't bother me at all to bug out after my day is done knowing that they're doing the same. (And I think most times, though not all, people do adjust to "that's just how Hyaline works" and come to expect that you'll be the early a.m. go-to.)

MeatballEsq · November 2013

Hyaline said:

tonir319 said:

First, giant kudos for taking a look at your work/life balance and making a decision that's going to be best for YOU and not just because it's a good career move. I've seen so many people take good career moves and end up miserable because the move didn't jibe with the rest of their lives.

I would do as you suggest--explain that the hours and lack of flexibility you perceive would make the position untenable for you, particularly at this time, but that you're invested in this company and in advancing your career within it. If your perception is off (per them) you've shown your interest and that you're putting the company first. If working the hours you need is an absolute no-go, you'll show that you're responsible by pulling yourself from consideration.

And I'm an asshole, but...if I took the position on the promise of working the hours I needed and later discovered that they had been less than forthright about flexibility, I'd say eff it and work the hours I could work. Hell, I always got my best work done before others got into the office, lol! If you're doing good work, a decent boss (IMO) will not care when it's getting done, and will realize that the reason you're leaving at 5 is because you were in at 8. That's not "bailing." That's working earlier hours.
That is how it would work ideally, but it definitely doesn't everywhere. I am much more a morning person but it doesn't matter if I got into the office everyday at 6:30 am and left at 6, the people I worked for still thought they worked harder being there from 9:30-8. Go figure.

Dawn I would have a frank discussion with your boss, but if the other office has a different corporate culture it will be hard to change that and you don't want your coworkers resenting you or you being unhappy good luck!

Yeah, and that's why I am an asshole--because I truly don't care. If people give me funky looks, eff it. Now, if there's stuff happening late in the day that you're skipping--meetings, events--that's different. But just "that's when people are sitting at their desks working?" It wouldn't bother me at all to bug out after my day is done knowing that they're doing the same. (And I think most times, though not all, people do adjust to "that's just how Hyaline works" and come to expect that you'll be the early a.m. go-to.)

Yeah I was like that too. Not to get all Debbie downer in this thread, but now I don't have a job. They didn't think I was committed enough.

So obviously I come at this question from a very different (and jaded) standpoint.

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