Vent and question!

Jbosarge85 · October 2013

I want to start this out saying I don't want to start a fight against pro spankers and con spankers. I personally do not spank and was raised in a family that does not spank, this is just something I need to vent. So I recently started watching a friends 3 yr old son, yesterday was our first day. He didn't take a nap which I understand, he was in a new place and sometimes it's hard to relax and sleep in a new place. When his parents picked him up he was a little cranky and was struggling against them trying to get his coat on. Instead of explaining that it was cold outside and that's why he needed his coat or opening the door and showing him it was cold the dad smacked his face. Then they changed his diaper again before leaving and he struggled getting his pants back on and they smacked his butt and said "You made me beat your butt." Poor little boy was crying and hyperventilating and saying he had a headache. The whole time DD and I just watched in shock, they kept yelling at him and even saying things like you're scaring annalisa (my DD) and making him feel bad. It was just a bad experience. So then today he colored on my wall, so I put him in time out. After I called him over so we could talk about it, he started hyperventilating again and looked scared so I said "I'm not going to hit you" and he came right over and had calmed down. So we talked about it and he apologized and I gave him a coloring book to color in instead. So my question is how do I get the crayon off of my wall? Thanks for letting me vent and any help with the crayon on the wall would help

nanabanana06 · October 2013

Uh, magic eraser. Then put a call to CPS. If they do that crap in public who knows what they do at home.

Emerald27 · October 2013

Magic erasers take crayon off walls.

That story is heartbreaking. Poor child.

I agree that I would call CPS. I used to be a teacher, and there are signs you're taught to look for of abuse. One of them is intense fear if punishment or of making mistakes.

If you change his diaper often, check him for bruises on his butt and legs. Also check his back, torso and arms. If you see anything out of the ordinary, report that too.

Abuse can be physical, emotional, or both. Emotional abuse is reported/discovered less often but us just as destructive. You will really be doing a good thing for this child by calling CPS.

In the meantime, shower that boy with love and show him that he is valuable and special.

aglenn · October 2013

Yikes. Ditto the magic eraser, and ditto that this is abuse and not spanking. How well do you know these people? You said the parents are friends.

It is a sticky situation but I would have to do something. That is not right at all.

Jbosarge85 · October 2013

They have actually had CPS called on them before, it was more that their house was a mess (like dirty dishes with rotting food on it everywhere) and someone claimed their son was being molested because they saw him grab his dad's crotch once. I felt so bad for him, I just wanted to grab him away and hug him. She is also pregnant right now and is due in April. Honestly, I just don't know if CPS could do anything, I haven't seen any bruises on him. I think it's just more emotional abuse then anything else. And I will definitely be getting magic eraser today.

Emerald27 · October 2013

Like I said in my PP, emotional abuse is real and unlawful: CPS can intervene. You'll just have to decide how comfortable you are with getting involved.

TiffanyBerry · October 2013

If you're close enough to be watching him, you could consider saying something.

At the least, in that situation, in YOUR house, I would intervene and say "I know you're frustrated, but there is no hitting in this house. I'm happy to talk to you about ways that have worked with him for me, or not if you prefer, but in this house, I will not let you hit anyone - child or adult."
(Like the others said - slapping a face is NOT spanking. It's assault if you do it, child abuse if they do it.)

My approach runs the risk of alienating them, I realize. And it might not be right for you. But I have one situation where this might possibly come up, and I've had to think a while about how I might handle it if it did, and this is the approach I plan to take if it does come up in my house.

Jbosarge85 · October 2013

Emerald27 said:

Like I said in my PP, emotional abuse is real and unlawful: CPS can intervene. You'll just have to decide how comfortable you are with getting involved.

oh no no I was in no way saying that it isn't real. I know it is and it's just as harmful as physical abuse. I just wasn't sure if CPS would be able to do anything.

Emerald27 · October 2013

Jbosarge85 said:

Emerald27 said:

Like I said in my PP, emotional abuse is real and unlawful: CPS can intervene. You'll just have to decide how comfortable you are with getting involved.

oh no no I was in no way saying that it isn't real. I know it is and it's just as harmful as physical abuse. I just wasn't sure if CPS would be able to do anything.

I know you know it's real.

You're witnessing it. What I really meant was that CPS acknowledges it and intervenes in cases of emotional abuse. A lot of people think they only get involved on cases of physical abuse, but that's not true.

=Lee=B · October 2013

Pretty sure the law states that spanking is NOT allowed on the face. It limits it to children ages 2-15 (can't remember the upper age) and to the buttocks. Smacking a child in the face is abuse not discipline.

What a difficult situation. A call to CAS is perfectly acceptable. You'll need to weigh the benefits to the child of keeping them in care if it means exposing your child to this behavior.

In the least, make clear rules about what is allowed in your home. Tell them clearly that if they do that again you will terminate care. What they do in their home is out of your control but what they do in your home must follow your rules.

I feel for you in having to handle this situation. Poor little boy...sounds like he was behaving normally considering his age, first day of care, and having skipped a nap.

musicalmama5 · October 2013

I personally wouldn't hesitate to call CPS. But don't be too hopeful that they will in fact do anything. Depending on the state, the definitions of "abuse" and "neglect" can be very loose. In Louisiana (where I live) and Mississippi (the only state that I have first-hand experience with reporting to CPS) it seems like the family only has to have running water and a box of crackers to be considered OK.

If you do find bruises or cuts, take pictures.

aeh72 · October 2013

I really don't have any advice, but I just had to say that your post made me tear up. That poor little boy.

Jbosarge85 · October 2013

They called to say they are on their way so I made sure he had his shoes and jacket on. I didn't want him to have the day he did yesterday.

aeh72 · October 2013

Jbosarge85 said:

They called to say they are on their way so I made sure he had his shoes and jacket on. I didn't want him to have the day he did yesterday.

That was a good idea. While you figure out what to do long term, to the extent you can help minimize the possibility of this little boy being hit or yelled at, that is good. The comfort and kindness you are providing him is more meaningful to him than I'm sure he could ever be able to express at his age. He's lucky to have you.

Coconuthead · October 2013

From my experience with cps when I was a kid I would say that they will probably not do anything. What they are supposed to do and what they actually do often don't coincide. However you can give it a shot for your own peace of mind.

What a sad situation though.

somewhereincali · October 2013

For the crayon, baking soda works and is less full of yucky chemicals.
Just get a rag wet and sprinkle baking soda on it and rub that on the marks. Takes a bit of elbow grease and you may need to add some more soda but it works and is less damaging to the paint also

JJ_13 · October 2013

This makes me so sad. I was slapped as a child and teenager and it is no way to raise a child.

WHether or not CPS will intervene is dependent on a number of factors - the most important being state law. This kind of thing is governed by state statutes and regs so there's no way for us to know whether or not it would be cause for investigation in your state.

Know that whether you talk to them one on one or whether you report to CPS, you may be ending your relationship with them. It is a very tricky thing to handle. I would probably give the child lots of love, consistent routine, etc (which it sounds like you're doing) and give it a few days to mull over in my head what I wanted to do. I would have to end up doing something, but would want to handle it delicately so that the child does not get further penalized.

Jbosarge85 · October 2013

When they picked him up yesterday he was playing with the light switch and after they asked him to stop a few times and I could tell they were getting mad. But instead of threatening to hit him or actually hitting him this time they threatened to put him in time out. My husband and the husband in the couple I'm talking about have been friends since high school (and are now 31, so a while). I'm not sure if my husband talked to him and told him we don't hit in our house or what changed. I'm glad it did though. I'll still of course pay attention to how they treat him and how he acts too.

skibunny59 · October 2013

Nana_Osaki06 said:

Uh, magic eraser. Then put a call to CPS. If they do that crap in public who knows what they do at home.

This! I don't believe in spanking but I was spanked as a child but my parents never ever slapped my face or hit me in front of anyone ever. I think it's very traumatizing for a child to be spanked and slapped in public. This sounds like abuse to me not spanking.

Try just a wet washcloth for your wall. Most crayon is washable.

bullybutt · October 2013

I pray that this sort of event never happens again, but if it does, could you do an over exagerrated GASP and cup your mouth (some sort of visual display) to make the parents aware that it's not the norm and not the way to treat a child. It's passive-aggressive but at least it's SOMETHING to let the parents know that it's unacceptable to you, without you having to actually confront them on their abuse.

skibunny59 · October 2013

Jbosarge85 said:

They have actually had CPS called on them before, it was more that their house was a mess (like dirty dishes with rotting food on it everywhere) and someone claimed their son was being molested because they saw him grab his dad's crotch once. I felt so bad for him, I just wanted to grab him away and hug him. She is also pregnant right now and is due in April. Honestly, I just don't know if CPS could do anything, I haven't seen any bruises on him. I think it's just more emotional abuse then anything else. And I will definitely be getting magic eraser today.

Hmm. This makes me think maybe there is something else going on with that family. Poor kid. When I pick up my LO after work I'm so excited to see her that I just want to smother her in kisses and hugs. I couldn't imagine hitting a slapping your own sweet child for something so silly like struggling when you put their coat or pants on.

Jbosarge85 · October 2013

Yeah I have no idea what is going on with them. I know that before the visit from CPS (which was this spring) they were both unemployed and just living off of food stamps and living with his dad. After the CPS visit they got a job but he's got and lost 3 jobs within 4 months. So this is a new job they started so I dunno if it's stress or what. It was sad that is for sure. They should know how I feel about spanking, I'm very open about it. We had a "sit on your hands" policy in my house, which we adopted in to our own family, as has all of my siblings.

ReeceFamily · October 2013

I didn't reply yesterday, but was haunted by your post. All of the PPs had great advice. I think talking to this boy's parents gently is a great idea - just let them know that, while you can't tell them how to parent, the rule in your house is, as you say, to "sit on your hands." You could tell them that you didn't say anything in the moment, but that you were upset by their actions. Your example may actually make them stop and think? Maybe, if they were raised by people who slapped and beat them, they don't realize that there are better ways to raise children, and that any violence toward children is considered by some to be unacceptable. You never know what effect your words may have (if you keep it kind and non-judgmental, which would be hard).

Please hug the little guy -- what a tough start in life.

st.augbride · October 2013

That's abuse.

Jbosarge85 · October 2013

theresat858 said:

Jbosarge85 said:

Yeah I have no idea what is going on with them. I know that before the visit from CPS (which was this spring) they were both unemployed and just living off of food stamps and living with his dad. After the CPS visit they got a job but he's got and lost 3 jobs within 4 months. So this is a new job they started so I dunno if it's stress or what. It was sad that is for sure. They should know how I feel about spanking, I'm very open about it. We had a "sit on your hands" policy in my house, which we adopted in to our own family, as has all of my siblings.

Clearly sounds like what they really need is another baby...Um, did they not understand how the first one happened?

That poor child and poor unborn baby. It's good he has you in his life, but I would def. call CPS on the parents.

He actually has a daughter with another woman, he doesn't get to see her, but he's way behind on child support

nanabanana06 · November 2013

Yeah, I'd be calling CPS even more now. The fact that they've already had CPS called on them means they'll investigate more. This behavior is inexcusable. You do not hit a child. It sounds like this child needs an advocate. By not trying to step up and do what is best for him is essentially enabling the parents to keep hitting their kid. Thats not cool either.

skibunny59 · November 2013

Jbosarge85 said:

theresat858 said:

Jbosarge85 said:

Yeah I have no idea what is going on with them. I know that before the visit from CPS (which was this spring) they were both unemployed and just living off of food stamps and living with his dad. After the CPS visit they got a job but he's got and lost 3 jobs within 4 months. So this is a new job they started so I dunno if it's stress or what. It was sad that is for sure. They should know how I feel about spanking, I'm very open about it. We had a "sit on your hands" policy in my house, which we adopted in to our own family, as has all of my siblings.

Clearly sounds like what they really need is another baby...Um, did they not understand how the first one happened?

That poor child and poor unborn baby. It's good he has you in his life, but I would def. call CPS on the parents.

He actually has a daughter with another woman, he doesn't get to see her, but he's way behind on child support

Wow! There is much more going on here than just spanking. It sounds like the dad of this child may be struggling with depression or have anger issues or maybe some other mental health issues. Either way, I would call CPS in order to protect this little boy from any more abuse and I also think his parents need counseling.

chevronseven · November 2013

This is terrible. I am pro spanking and i think this is terrible. When I was growing up, spanking was used as a LAST resort and it was NEVER done in conjunction with any kind of emotional abuse. My mom refused to do it while she was angry because she was afraid she would hit too hard, so she would send us to our room to give herself time to calm down, then when she did do it it was always with a paddle, not with her hands because hands are for administering love. I only had to be spanked once, maybe twice in my life because it was done so well and it worked. Now as a teenager when I mouthed off, I may have gotten popped in the mouth a time or two, but I don't hold that against my mom. There is a distinct difference between spanking and abuse, and what you described is abuse, both physical and emotional. I agree with above posters that you set the limits for what is allowed inside your house. Or, set up a video camera and get it on tape next time to show CPS. Poor kid, I will say a prayer for him.

PhoenixBritt · November 2013

I am a case worker that works with CPS and my advice to you would be to report this now. If you wait and something terrible happens to this little boy you'll wish you had done something. Children who are abused need someone to stand up for them. You can make an anonymous report if you are worried about the parents being upset.

purpleXdandelion · November 2013

This broke my heart. Especially the "you made me beat your butt" comment. OP I'm glad you're in that boy's life to love on him. I pray you make the right decision on what steps to take next, seems like a sticky situation since they are friends.

phdprocrastinator · November 2013

Total lurker butting in. This sounds like a really terrible position to be in. That poor boy!

As a preschool teacher, I was a mandated reporter. One way to handle reporting is to be upfront with the family. You can google "mandated reporter rules" and your state to find an outline of the rules for mandated reporters. When you discuss your concerns with the parents you could say something like "You may not realize that I am a mandated reporter (fib here if needed). According to the rules in this handbook, I need to report because of X, Y, and Z." This way you're not personally judging them, but instead are following rules. Then maybe you can discuss how you manage behavior in your home, giving some suggestions from what you've seen work with their son while he's in your care.

Good luck to you!

ExcitedMum2B · November 2013

How did this week go with him? Did you call CPS or talk to the parents?

Jbosarge85 · November 2013

They actually decided to have his grandma watch him instead. So I don't see him anymore. I've been debating calling, I just don't know if it was a bad night or what. the dad said right after that he shouldn't have popped him in the mouth. Which I know a lot of abusers say that. I'm just torn on what to do, they are friends so I'm sure they will find out it was me, but then again I want to help him out and make sure he isn't treated that way anymore. It's a hard situation.

ExcitedMum2B · November 2013

If he isn't in your care anymore, I would call CPS. If you had watched him longer, you could see if it was a one time thing or something deeper. Unfortunately all you have to go on is what you saw that night, it can't hurt to call it in. Especially if it is something more. Imagine if he was your son, and unbeknownst to you he was being emotionally abused by a household member, wouldn't you want someone to call it in? Situations like this, I don't think deserve the benefit of the doubt. Not if he was so scared to walk over to you after you put him in time out. There's more to it.

coffeeandbooks · November 2013

That poor kid. I am a very unconfrontational person but I agree with the above posters that you need to do something to show that you are not ok with the behavior. I would call CPS and if you saw it again right away I would say please don't hit him in my house as I am not comfortable with hitting in my home and don't want to expose my own children to it.

Emerald27 · November 2013

CPS will definitely not reveal your identity. And they shouldn't give the family specific enough details about the report to let them know it was you.

IMHO, the loss of that friendship wouldn't be a big deal. I mean, think of what they could be doing to that poor boy at home, if they treat him like that in front of you. Not friend material IMO.

Jbosarge85 · November 2013

Emerald27 said:

CPS will definitely not reveal your identity. And they shouldn't give the family specific enough details about the report to let them know it was you. IMHO, the loss of that friendship wouldn't be a big deal. I mean, think of what they could be doing to that poor boy at home, if they treat him like that in front of you. Not friend material IMO.

You're right and to be honest before I watched their son, my husband and I hadn't seen them since like July. So honestly, we aren't that close anyway. My husband has been friends with the husband in that relationship since high school so, like 15 years or so, but still not that close. My husband also agrees that they don't treat him the way they should.

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