Vent: Am I wrong? (promotion related)

JulyMomma2U2 · October 2013

Just trying to see what others think of this situation I’ve found myself in regarding work. I’ve been at my company in the same position for 4 years. Last Fall I was due to be promoted, but didn’t get it (I had just returned from maternity leave and found out I hadn’t been promoted). I heard from several people that I was put up for promotion by my manager, but that they just didn’t have enough promotion slots to grant everyone promotions, but that I’d get promoted “next year”. Shortly after I found out I was pregnant with DS2, I decided to put in a request to switch to a job share so I could work part time.. after a lot of pushing and fighting, it was approved (later found out it was only approved because my director wanted to hire 2 “friends” of his, so doing the job share allowed 2 of us currently in the group the ability to share one FTE, so he opened a position for a friend.. I digress, sort of).. anyway, in my fighting to get P/T approved, I was told by 2 different managers that I was also going to be promoted this year. Long story short, I, again, did not get promoted. The reasoning being (so I’m being told from other coworkers), my director “made me happy by approving p/t” so promotions went to other people.

I’m ticked. I get that I’m working part time now.. I get that I’ve taken 2 maternity leaves back to back.. but, the fact of the matter is I still do my job and I’m very good at it, too. I have WAY more responsibility than any other person at my level.. I have more responsibility than some who are already a level above me! I’ve been pulled from manager to manager because people keep fighting to have me work on their projects for the simple fact that I can work independently and get things done without requiring “hand holding”.. every manager I’ve worked with raves about how much they enjoy working with me.. and yet, I’ve still never been promoted. I know it’s not my “managers’ fault”, as every time it’s my manager who ends up apologizing directly to me or vents to my coworkers about how upset they are that I didn’t get promoted..

I don’t know.. I’m just having a hard time with the fact that they are hiring several people TWO levels above me, that I’ll then be training, but yet working under them.. Is it really fair for them to say “they made me happy by granting my job share” so therefore I don’t get promoted??? I know how pissed I am about this.. but also pissed listening to other people tell me they “can’t believe I wasn’t promoted”.. Sigh.

RoxyLynn · October 2013

Would you still want to work PT if you were promoted? If so, is the higher-level position one that can be done PT?

JulyMomma2U2 · October 2013

RoxyLynn said:

Would you still want to work PT if you were promoted? If so, is the higher-level position one that can be done PT?

Yes and yes. I work as a scientist doing research.. I'm already doing well above the next promotion level as is..

Maybride2 · October 2013

I don't know. I've never really heard of or seen PT employees get promotions. I think you'd have more of a "case" if you were still working FT. Not that I doubt that you're good at what you do and work your butt off, but after "fighting" for a PT position and getting it, I'm not sure how much of a leg you have to stand on.

SparkySharky · October 2013

I'm with Maybride2. I think once you go PT, you kind of get removed from the promotion track.

JulyMomma2U2 · October 2013

We have another part time employee in our group who us been promoted multiple times over the years despite being part time. The thing is I'm already performing at a level, if not two!! Above where I currently am.. I have the increased responsibility and will be maintaining that responsibility as a pt employee as well.. The pt was a fight simply because the director feared others would soon ask the same.. When it was originally denied I decided I was going to be leaving the company to take a year off with my boys.. This is when I was again told I was being promoted and my manager at the time said I should stay and that they would grant me a job share instead of simply approving part time.. So that's what I did.. During my maternity leave, my last manager transferred groups and is no longer in my department.. But my new manager (whom I'd been working with prior to going on leave, and had also told me I was being promoted this year) has still pushed for my promotion, but director denied it.. Thanks for all the feedback, though.. It's good to see how others perceive this..

JulyMomma2U2 · October 2013

I should also add.. The job share isn't really a job share.. They are hiring someone to "share" the head count slot with me, but instead of having us work on the same projects together, my director is taking advantage of this opportunity and having the job share person work 4 days a week solely on a separate project.. Which means my responsibilities and projects are staying the same except I have less time to complete the tasks... This is not necessarily an issue for me, as I said I'm pretty well organized and am able to efficiently get projects moving, but it's still annoying that I'm still considered the lowest level in my department., another thing to put this in perspective.. I posted a while back about being paired up with a manager who, for all intents and purposes, wasn't very well versed in the processes and science behind what our group does.. After going to my senior manager (the one who recently left) I was informed that I was paired with this manager because I could help "bring her up to speed" and that it would be a good "development opportunity" for me to essentially train my manager the steps of developing and validating our work.. My response at the time was that I didn't feel comfortable or that it was fair, me being an associate level, being responsible for training my manager who was 4 levels above me.. Again this was when it was pointed out to me that I don't function at an associate level and that I need to be more confident (which my issue wasn't about confidence, but I digress) and know that I'm due to be promoted.. This convo happened in May.. I went out on leave in July.. Sigh. Idk I just feel like in a lot of ways I'm being taken advantage of.. But my choice is stay and have the flex of job sharing, or leave and take a higher position elsewhere, but lose the part time flexibility.. Thanks for letting me vent :-)

aeh72 · October 2013

I agree with other posters that you may have created perception problems for yourself about your overall goals - i.e., asking to go PT and then when not getting approved initially, deciding you would just take a year off to be with your kids (did you tell them that?). If so, something about that doesn't really sit well with me. It doesn't strike me as someone who is fully committed to their job. I'm not saying you aren't - but I'm wondering if that is maybe what you are up against.

But, I'm in HR and if I heard your story I would be concerned about these managers telling you that you are going to be promoted before it was approved. Did they actually tell you that you would be promoted or that you were going to be eligible to be considered for a promotion? There is a difference. If it's the former, if I were you, I might consider going to HR to understand if I should have received the promotion based on the commitments of the managers. Keep in mind though, the managers saying you will doesn't guarantee HR will be required to follow through on that - you may still not be deemed eligible or ready for the promotion and you won't get it, but the managers who made the statements may end up getting disciplined for making a statement like that without the approval or authority to do so.

LoCarb · October 2013

Have you talked to mgmt? Did you bring up the topic of a promotion during your review? Only mgmt can directly answer your question. Your co-workers should not be involved in the decision process or know why you are being overlooked. I would start there.

JJ_13 · October 2013

I disagree with the comments about you maybe not being fully committed to your job, but then my perception of work is just that, that it's work. We all have lots to balance in our lives and our jobs should understand that, just like our families do. Our commitment to our jobs should be premised on a mutually respectful relationship and it seems to me that they're not respecting you. That said, I also wonder if you've burned some bridges here - the exchange about training your manager is what alerted me, to be honest. Maybe it's my line of work, but it's pretty common here for managers to be hired and need to be trained by people underneath them. Of course, once they understand the content, then they just store it in their heads as background knowledge for the more strategic decision-making that they, as managers, do. I work in consulting. It's water under the bridge now, but I don't think pushing back at that opportunity was the right thing to do, especially since it was very close to when you went out on leave and went part time. I don't think it's right, and i hate that it is this way, but I suspect that you've created a perception that you're taking the "mommy-track." I think it's bull$hit, but I suspect some of your colleagues see it this way.

I think you should have a frank, but tactful, conversation with someone - start with your manager and, if you're not able to get it resolved to your satisfaction (expect to have to compromise somewhat) then go to someone above your manager, although nto behind your manager's back. I would say something like, "I appreciate all you are doing to resolve this, but I'm pretty frustrated by it. I think I'm going to have to discuss it with NAME. Would you like to be included in that conversation?"

Good luck w whatever you decide to do.

cecilyandgautam · October 2013

I think it's difficult to get promoted when you're on a part time schedule, as unfortunate as that is. I do know a director position that's shared between two people but both those managers made it to director level full time before reducing their hours for health resources. I know you can't go back in time but it would have been an easier case to get promoted first then go part time, but that's not really helpful for me to say. I hear you on your point that you're still doing all the work of one full time person but in less time but I've never seen some one successfully make the case to get paid for that full time work load while on a PT schedule - some people work hard and get a lot done in a day and some don't but we all (office people) get paid for the hours we work.

I think have a few options: (1) you could interview around and see if you can get an offer for a higher salary with some flexibility. some places offer 4 days of 10 hours each (2) you could put your bid in for one of these manager openings that your employer seems to have all over the place. that would likely require going back to FT for at least a few months, but you might be able to negotiate a compressed schedule with Fridays off or something. (3) If there's an HR department, you could request a desk audit. My place has these - they evaluate your work load, type of tasks you do and they assess it based on the job description. If you're doing more than what your PD & pay corresponds to, then you are recommended for promotion. If you're doing less, you are recommended for a demotion. It's risky because they don't compare you to your coworkers (being the hardest working one at your level won't matter) - they compare you to the paperwork of what it is you're supposed to be doing so if you really aren't performing tasks above what you were hired for, you're stuck at the end of it and management would have even more justification to not promote you.

JulyMomma2U2 · October 2013

JJ_13 said:

That said, I also wonder if you've burned some bridges here - the exchange about training your manager is what alerted me, to be honest. Maybe it's my line of work, but it's pretty common here for managers to be hired and need to be trained by people underneath them.

JJ_13 Thanks.. I was mobile and didn't really elaborate on this as well as I could have.. my former manager had been with our group for almost 2 years with no direct reports.. her and I were good friends prior to the manager/managee scenario.. the issue was that once I moved under her, my growth/development went stagnant.. she didn't have the experience in what we do to properly manage.. instead of me being able to ask her for direction, I was having to constantly explain/justify/argue with her on what our next steps should be, etc.. it was a very awful situation.. I was upset because I felt like I was always in a really bad spot.. having to "argue" next steps with my manager because the things she'd tell me to do, I knew were incorrect.. so when I spoke with my higher manager, she explained to me that she thought we'd be a good pair because I don't really "rely" on management to get my work done and so I would be able to "manage up".. she tried to spin it as a "this is good for your growth", but it really wasn't. We stayed that way for a year, and unfortunately our friendship suffered (former manager also told me she wouldn't nominate me for promotions because we were friends and she would be afraid others would think she's only nominating me because we were friends.. it was all around a not good pairing..!). Anyway, what perturbs me is I am dedicated to my job. I commute 110 miles a day to come to work, spend 3-4hrs in the car away from my kiddos because I like it here.. I like what we do, I like my group, etc..

I refuse to play the political game, though.. I'm not in the "inner circle of friends" with the director.. I'm a strong believer that you should work hard, and hard work will be rewarded.. not that you should become buddy buddy with the right people.. When my request was initially denied, it was "recommended to me" by my senior manager that perhaps I should go and talk with my director and show him "how personal" (aka literally cry to him in his office) this is, and that there's a good chance that would convince him to approve my request.. When asked later if I had "done that", I responded that I refused to play the "woman" card and cry to get what I want.. I straight up said that I think my work ethic should be enough to speak for itself. Shortly after, I did end up telling another manager that I would be leaving in January.. we were discussing future projects, and I didn't want her to count on me to pick things up and then last minute come back from leave and say I was leaving.. so, yes, I gave her heads up.. I'm sure she spoke up to senior management because I then was told a job share would be approved. Blergh. It's all very frustrating..

And to answer other PP.. I was told from management directly "you'll be promoted this year".. I suppose it was our director who decided otherwise..

JulyMomma2U2 · October 2013

cecilyandgautam

You bring up a few good points.. 1 is that although I'm approved for part time/job share, it hasn't yet gone into effect.. starts next Monday.. and, promotions were decided on in September while I was on maternity leave.. so, technically, when the decision was made, I was still a FT employee, just out on maternity leave.. and, my salary has been cut accordingly to reflect my PT schedule (ie I'm only receiving 60% pay since I'm only working 3 days a week).. I've actually joked/semi seriously said I'm considering quitting and re-applying for a higher position, but it doesn't work that way here.. you aren't allowed to do that..

Lastly.. the thing that's tough in what I do.. it's not so much a differential between amount of work versus how you go about your work.. I'm an associate level.. there are several "levels" above me before manager level.. but, typically as an associate, you're not expected to be very independent.. a lot of relying on your manager to direct you.. write protocols, design experiements, analyze data FOR YOU.. I do all of that on my own.. I'm given a project and timelines and I get to work.. I consult my manager when I have issues or questions or am unsure what the best next steps are, but other than that I'm very independent.. so it's not so much about the amount of work, it's more about the quality and the ability to work independently without needing step by step guidance.. does that make sense?

iverske9 · October 2013

I agree with previous posters, once you are PT you are not on a promotion track.

MamaBovs · October 2013

Same. At my company PT employees typically don't get promoted so this doesn't surprise me.

FemShep · October 2013

You talk about doing work that is a level or two above your current position; how do you know this? Does your company have job descriptions you can review?

When you're out on FMLA, you can't have any change to your job-including a promotion. Some companies will delay a promotion until you return (this happened to me with DD1), but they are under no obligation to do so, and I've certainly heard of companies that (foolishly) promote only during a specific time of the year. So you may have just had very bad timing.

If I were you, I'd look for any kind of formal documentation that shows you are clearly doing a job above your current level. Sit down with your manager and director (since the director seems to be where the roadblock is) and talk about what you need to accomplish to get promoted since you're doing work above your level. Don't be emotional, don't talk about how your manager vents to other employees (which is frankly terrible managerial behavior on his part-you should never discuss promotions someone didn't get with others!), focus on your accomplishments as well as the standards for the position you want. Get an action plan together with your manager and director, follow it diligently, and follow up with quarterly progress reports so that you're well-positioned during the next promotion cycle.

sidey1 · October 2013

FemShep said:

If I were you, I'd look for any kind of formal documentation that shows you are clearly doing a job above your current level. Sit down with your manager and director (since the director seems to be where the roadblock is) and talk about what you need to accomplish to get promoted since you're doing work above your level. Don't be emotional, don't talk about how your manager vents to other employees (which is frankly terrible managerial behavior on his part-you should never discuss promotions someone didn't get with others!), focus on your accomplishments as well as the standards for the position you want. Get an action plan together with your manager and director, follow it diligently, and follow up with quarterly progress reports so that you're well-positioned during the next promotion cycle.

I second this advice, I also work in HR and I would advice an employee who feels they should be considered for a promotion to work with their Manager to lay out a path for what it would look like to acheive that. I would ditch all the past convos about being passed by for a promotion and be forward looking in your conversation. At the very least, if it is an issue of you working p/t, having this conversation could force your Manager to have more transparency around that.

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