BM Issues

ab8174 · October 2013

Hey all! Well, everything is going well with the adoption of our Lil Bun. The only thing that I have had problems with is getting the BM to realize, if it is going to be a closed adoption, being friends will just make things more difficult. She texts me constantly and is always trying to get money out of us, even though she asked for no compensation. She doesn't seem to realize that once the baby is here, we won't be in contact with her. Has anyone else had issues with a clingy BM? It is bad enough that I won't tell her where we live so she doesn't come lurking!

Dr.Loretta · October 2013

Are you working with an agency or law firm that can intercede on your behalf?

I'm sorry I missed your story. Did she initiate the closed adoption? And I'm already seeing some level of openness if you've met and have shared phone #s.

Are there state laws about birthparent compensation?

Worst case scenario, you can stop answering her texts, turn off your phone, or change your #. But I'm a fan of some level of contact, even if it's more distant, if it will be beneficial to your child.

Rachel Sonnier · October 2013

Sounds like you guys may not be on the same page. I think it is really important that she understand everything that your level or openness (or closedness?) entails. That will probably be essential to her being able to heal and move forward after the adoption is complete.

I am actually in the opposite situation. The expectant mom that we are matched with does not want any contact with us now, but she does desire some level of contact after birth. We were told by our case worker that she feels as though further contact at this point would be too much for her, but I would absolutely LOVE to hear from her and get to know her better. We sent an email address for her to contact us if she so chooses (she has our phone # as well). I have only spoken to her once, but she was so sweet and I think we have lots of things in common. I can't wait to get to know her and her family after the adoption.

You might need to really spell out what the closed adoption that you are envisioning will look like. Especially if you feel as though she does not realize some aspect of it. I am sure that you really wouldn't want her to feel like she was misled in some way when all is said and done. Is she receiving any counseling at this time? Do you guys have a lawyer or family advocate (some kind of go between) that could make certain that both parties are on the same page as far as boundaries go?

maryoosa · October 2013

So I remember that your story was that an expectant mother had an unfortunate failed match due to the illness of an prospective adoptive mom, and a friend approached you for her friend who was the expectant mom after you've had trouble TTC.

I think you need to figure out what type of adoption you're going to have--- if you were having a truly closed adoption, you wouldn't likely be conversing much with each other before the baby was born. Many of the people I know in closed situations met the expectant mom when she was in labor and that was the only contact. Perhaps what you are each exploring is semi-open- where you have some contact/information but not everything?

I think you are also only working with a lawyer? I'd strongly urge you to look for an agency in your area that provides a la carte services and could possibly help you and the expectant mom mediate this situation. You certainly don't want to be on the wrong footing before birth- it will make placement (if the expectant mom chooses that) and the post-placement experience really challenging if you're on different pages now.

I'd also ask you to interrogate your language--- describing a "clingy birth mom"- if you are moving toward a closed adoption, this pre-birth time and the hospital time is likely the only time that this woman is going to have to connect with you- the potential parents of her child- who she may never hear from again, or at least not until the child is of an age to request information. Compassion is your best friend throughout an adoption process. Think of how you would feel if you were making a decision to place your child with another family, and think of how you would want to be treated. I'm a fan of open adoption- and even though our adoption is a challenge sometimes I'm really glad that my son is going to know his birth parent, and her extended family.

Also, expectant mothers can't ask for "compensation." Compensation would indicate that a baby was a product being sold- instead, expectant mothers are entitled to expenses that help them to have a healthy pregnancy- just be careful around that language. There are far to many people who believe that adoption is buying a baby- talking about compensation perpetuates that.

Good luck in your journey.

ab8174 · October 2013

Sorry, I miss spoke when I said closed adoption. But after the birth, she doesn't want any contact with the infant.

As for the money, she has just been asking for cash for god knows what, and a couple non-baby related bills. I realize she is giving us a wondergul gift, but we don't want to feel used either.

We are using a lawyer, and he knows the situation. We are also using an agency as a facilitator of the homestudy. We offered our BM counceling, which she rejected. I have tried very hard to spell things out for her but I don't think she is willing or able to understand just how hard it will be. I try to comfort her, to see things from her perspective, but she is just not too receptive and it worries me greatly.

maryoosa · October 2013

@ab8174 I'd be concerned. There are some "red flags" there--does the expectant mother have separate legal representation? That's usually necessary in many states--- if so you might ask your lawyer to call her lawyer.

Best,

ab8174 · October 2013

Thanks all for the advice! As you can tell, I am still new at the adoption game. Still learning! I did a lot of research concerning Wisconsin adoption laws and they extremely strict compared to most of the US. I also talked to our adoption counselor and lawyer about the laws. They both informed me that we can give her a "gift" of up to $100, which I did in the beginning so she could buy maternity clothes. But I think she expects us to pay her way since we are so desperate for a child. I am just frustrated with how she is treating the situation. She doesn't have any kind of legal counsel, our lawyer is in the process of contacting her as an attempt to inform her of the laws and her rights.

JaxxM, she doesn't want contact with the child at all or progress reports. She basically wants to forget the whole situation. I don't think she realizes how hard it will be.

Rachel Sonnier · October 2013

I would also be concerned.

Three different scenarios came to mind when I read your response.

Either she is (A) way to young to understand the magnitude of the situation, (B) not stable enough to understand what is really going to happen, or (C) that she doesn't plan to go through with the adoption.

I would try to change my way of thinking as to not be so desperate for a child that you are vulnerable to being taken advantage of. That is a scry situation to be in, but one that you and your spouse can control by being smart and willing to walk away from any situation that becomes something that his outside of your comfort zone.

Is this her first pregnancy?

CarolinaGirl2014 · October 2013

I agree with PP's about possibly going through an agency. I know it is very expensive and can't attest to that being an expectant BM, but I can attest to the benefits of the agency. Our agency doesn't even really "look out for me" in my opinion but I've felt much more comfortable going through them with questions than straight to the PAP's, especially at the beginning. The agency is also great at facilitation financial help. I didn't have the funds for some basic needs and the agency funds those with money they get from the PAP's. I felt bad asking for money and didn't want to take advantage of the PAP's, but knew it was needed for the well-being of the baby. She could be taking advantage, but she also could be terrified, alone, and stuck wondering how to communicate. There have been many times throughout this process I felt completely alone and like I had to fight like hell for my own rights and a little compassion. And that was with some great people.

Also, agencies have counselors that can make sure that she understands that gravity of the situation as well as screen whether she seems to truly plan on going through with the adoption and save your some heartache.

Good luck! Also, remember that this is probably the hardest and most painful thing she will ever do. It's hard to trust another person with your baby, knowing that once you place him or her, you'll never again have input in his or her life. Sometimes I feel like I'm clingy with the PAP's, but they seem to understand my need to bond with and trust them.

ab8174 · October 2013

Rachel, this is her third pregnancy, she has a 3 year old that I met once before and she had an abortion when she was younger. The BM is 31, old enough that she should realize just how hard everything will be. I just cant stop worrying. But she reassures me that she can't take care of the child and loves us as a couple, so we will see how everything goes.

Elreid · October 2013

@ab8174 I totally understand why you are worried about the BM. She seems a little flaky and with her age it makes me think that there are some underlying issues with her. I am a BM myself and I am 22 years old. I know what I did and I have a very good outlook on my life now. I placed my birth daughter with an amazing family and I love our open adoption!

It's that being said-this woman seems to have many issues. I think you need to go through an agency, make it mandatory that she receive help if you are going to adopt this child and also do not give her any more money. (She could be using that for drugs for all you know and then that would affect the baby as well) I would have her do a drug test and sit down and have a big talk about what everyone wants/needs out of the adoption. You have to be sure to protect yourself and family. I understand that you want a child, but if she changed her mind would you be able to handle that? I would want to be matched with someone much more reliable. The fact that she had an abortion shows how much she actually cares IMO. (Sorry, I'm really pro life and I don't think I could adopt from someone who had an abortion)

Dr.Loretta · October 2013

I don't even know where I'd go from here. This whole post and the followup is confusing me.

So she's 31 (which I don't see as being particularly relevant here), she has a 3yo, and it's her 3rd pregnancy.

She wants contact before the birth but no contact after. And she wants a lot of contact now. Which I can understand, it sounds like you're her sounding board for a lot of emotions right now.

She has never made an adoption plan before, so she's not prepared for what anyone may be feeling after the birth and placement. Which again I can understand, I don't think anyone knows how they'll feel until it actually happens.

She's asking for money, which I would be checking with your lawyer about legality. Each state has laws about that, and it can range from nothing to several thousand dollars.

Since you're working with a lawyer, perhaps it would be a good idea to meet with the lawyer and the e-mom and draw up a game plan, or at least discuss one. It sounds like you're all going into this with different ideas, emotions, and plans. If you all get together and lay things out on the table, you may get a better idea of how this is going to go down.

MrsSwaite2 · October 2013

Our Birth Mom was only 19 and had some mental capacity issues that made us very concerned about her ability to make good choices and understand the finality of a closed adoption. She was also being "counseled" by another not so stable person. The day she was to sign she had her friend call our attorney and demanded a completely open adoption. She had a history of extreme violence to others and small children. We held firm on the closed adoption side. My point in telling you this is that it seems like your e mom is experiencing lots of emotions and my not be completely emotionally ready to say goodbye. We too just went through an attorney and we ended up asking the court to have a guardian ad litem put in place for our e mom. Luckily, when our LO was almost 48 old the b mom signed the papers without the GAL having to make a decision. We understood and felt horrible that even though our birth mom said throughout the pregnancy that she knew and wanted to give our LO a better life, we knew she was emotional and crushed she had to say goodbye. I totally understand your emotions. We were also approached out of the clear blue sky. It felt like a miracle and I became very attached from afar(we had no direct contact with the birth mom). The day she was making those demands, it felt like our LO was being torn from my body. However, I kept telling myself throughout her pregnancy and the 48 hours after, that this baby girl was not ours yet. It was extremely hard to keep telling myself that, but it was true. I know that you are having a lot of frightening feelings about your e mom, but please understand that no matter the age, no matter the facts of her other children, she is still a person with feelings, and maybe doesn't know how to express things very well. If you have any questions about the GAL, please feel free to message me.

Rachel Sonnier · October 2013

MrsSwaite2 said:

Our Birth Mom was only 19 and had some mental capacity issues that made us very concerned about her ability to make good choices and understand the finality of a closed adoption. She was also being "counseled" by another not so stable person. The day she was to sign she had her friend call our attorney and demanded a completely open adoption. She had a history of extreme violence to others and small children. We held firm on the closed adoption side. My point in telling you this is that it seems like your e mom is experiencing lots of emotions and my not be completely emotionally ready to say goodbye. We too just went through an attorney and we ended up asking the court to have a guardian ad litem put in place for our e mom. Luckily, when our LO was almost 48 old the b mom signed the papers without the GAL having to make a decision. We understood and felt horrible that even though our birth mom said throughout the pregnancy that she knew and wanted to give our LO a better life, we knew she was emotional and crushed she had to say goodbye. I totally understand your emotions. We were also approached out of the clear blue sky. It felt like a miracle and I became very attached from afar(we had no direct contact with the birth mom). The day she was making those demands, it felt like our LO was being torn from my body. However, I kept telling myself throughout her pregnancy and the 48 hours after, that this baby girl was not ours yet. It was extremely hard to keep telling myself that, but it was true. I know that you are having a lot of frightening feelings about your e mom, but please understand that no matter the age, no matter the facts of her other children, she is still a person with feelings, and maybe doesn't know how to express things very well. If you have any questions about the GAL, please feel free to message me.

I don't know the details of your situation, so maybe there is something big that I am missing, but it sounds an awful lot like you are admitting that you used the legal system to coerce a BM into signing TPR in a closed adoption.

ab8174 · October 2013

First of all, I don't want anyone to be offended by my post. It was not my intent to degrade my BM or make other BMs feel insignificant or belittled. Every adoption is different and every human is different. I only posted my issue to find if there were other people that felt like their BMs were not quite understanding the gravity of what they are going through, or BMs that can tell me how wrong I am. I don't know a lot about this situation. It is my first time being between a child and their mother, in the hopes of giving this child a better life. I HAVE been in the position of losing a child that I carried for 8 months(stillborn) and I think that is pretty close to the feeling that some BMs have. I just want her to be sure. I don't judge her. I want her to know that we will take good care of this lil one. I tell her all the time that we aren't going anywhere. I try to support her emotionally and give her guidance when she needs it. Then she asks for money...and that makes me afraid that she is going to use us and change her mind at the last minute. I am scared...so scared.

MrsSwaite2 · October 2013

Wow.....just wow. First of all, our birth mom had an IQ of 67. She was not coerced in fact, she would have never been able to keep our daughter. We were specifically told by the hosptial social worker that had we Not been there to pick up our daughter, then she would have been sent Into the foster care World. The whole reason we had a GAL was to protect everyone. We were approached by a women who our both mom was living with via a friend of ours. Our birth mom was born to a women who abused drugs and alcohol. She beat her on the head constantly. When she was six and had a normal IQ she suffered a beating at her mothers hands that was so bad that she is now blind in her right eye and was diagnosed as mentally and developmentally challanged. She was adopted at age 7 to people that ran a foster mill. When she was fifteen she beat a 2 year old in her adoptive parents home so badly that he was in the hospital and the authorities to her ap that if they didn't remove her, they would remove the foster kids. She was then bounced from home to home(3 times) that were "friends" of her AP's as long as the $$$$ was given to them to care for her. She was never put back in high school. She was sexually abused and diagnosed with PTSD, RAD, and FAS. She has an extremely violent temper, and during her pregnancy spent 4 months in jail for assault and battery to the lady who approached us. She was taken to homeless shelters when she turned 18. She was and is sexually promiscuous due to her diagnosed mental issues. We worked hard, even though she didn't know us to help her get into a state program were for the FIRST time she is surrounded by loving people who are getting her counseling and help so maybe, just maybe she may have a peaceful life. The women she was living with constantly antogonzed her and wanted to keep our daughter, but due to her own issues she would have never been approved by CPS. Throughout the whole pregnancy every case worker, social worker and the head of the deptarment of developmental disabilities were told by us that if she wanted to parent we would understand. They and 2 judges said no way. So, our daughter was born on September 16th after we had been told her due date had been changed to Oct 6th the week before. I had for 4 months googled, read and tried to find ANYONE in a similar situation as ours....nothing. So I joined the bump. Then we get called. We totally respected our birth mom and allowed her time with our daughter. Again, even though we knew it was us or a foster home we Didn't want to take anytime away from her. In our state you get 24 hours. At that time, the lady she lived with decided that because SHE and not the birth mom wanted contact with our daughter she would manipulate our birth mom and demand an open adoption or nothing, in fact it was this women who called our attorney, kicked out our birth moms case worker from her group home and told him if we wouldn't agree then it was off and he our attorney could adopt the baby. Finally, the hospital case worker kicked that women out of the hospital. We will send updates of our(hers and ours) daughter to her wonderful case workers at the group home she lives at now. When we went to the hospital the social worker, a hospital case worker and 6 nurses told us that she didn't want to parent. She wanted to go on with her life. The GAL was present but she and she alone without the influence of the manipulative women made the decision. We are forever grateful and I worry everyday how I can honestly and truthfully answer our daughters questions. I came to this board for help and support. I'm obviously not the most eloquent writer, and I only have our situation to go by. I resent anyone thinking that we took advantage of our birth mom, it is quite the opposite. If you don't believe my story, fine. There is a reason why I was so hesitant to join and stop lurking. My point in responding to the OP was to tell her to back off on the b mom, and make sure that everyone, especially the b mom is protected. I have nothing but the upmost respect for birth moms. I am going to leave this board and the bump because obviously I can't help and only stir the pot when I was truly trying to help. OP, I'm sorry this turned ugly, I truly hope the best comes out for you and your e mom.

Elreid · October 2013

ab8174 said:

First of all, I don't want anyone to be offended by my post. It was not my intent to degrade my BM or make other BMs feel insignificant or belittled. Every adoption is different and every human is different. I only posted my issue to find if there were other people that felt like their BMs were not quite understanding the gravity of what they are going through, or BMs that can tell me how wrong I am. I don't know a lot about this situation. It is my first time being between a child and their mother, in the hopes of giving this child a better life. I HAVE been in the position of losing a child that I carried for 8 months(stillborn) and I think that is pretty close to the feeling that some BMs have. I just want her to be sure. I don't judge her. I want her to know that we will take good care of this lil one. I tell her all the time that we aren't going anywhere. I try to support her emotionally and give her guidance when she needs it. Then she asks for money...and that makes me afraid that she is going to use us and change her mind at the last minute. I am scared...so scared.

From a birth mom to you- We know exactly what we are doing. Just because we are not capable of taking care of our child does not mean that we do not have feelings or know what we are doing. We are doing what is best for our babies. If you can't understand that then you should not be adopting. If anything, I think we know what we are doing more than that AP's because we chose to place our child for adoption. We chose the AP's for a certain reason. I am not trying to be mean or hateful in this post. I just dont want to see you or the BM get into a situation that will harm this child. Not saying you would be bad parents, but there are so many what ifs and things that can and will go wrong with an adoption.

Also, I am so sorry for your loss. It is one of the hardest things to go through and I totally understand why you would want to pursue adoption. I do not, however; think that an adoption and the loss that you experienced are the same. For a BM, we have to think about what the child is doing at every moment, come to terms with the fact that we are not fit to take care of our child, and also many other problems that come with having your child somewhere else. it is so hard! I feel like the loss of your child was horrible for you and you should have every right to mourn that baby. I do not think that one or the other is worse, but they are very different.

As for you being scared. I really am sorry. I think that it is just one part of an adoption.

Good luck with everything and update us when you can

ab8174 · October 2013

Thank you for your insight. I don't want you to think I do not respect my BM, I know that she does love this child and trusting us to help it means a lot to me. As you can tell, I don't know what it is like to be in her situation. I need to learn about these things to understand why she is acting the way she is. I want to understand her and that will help me ease my mind.

Elreid · October 2013

@ab8174 if you need any help or guidance from a BM feel free to contact me through message or however you feel comfortable!

plus12012 · October 2013

In some states it is actually illegal for you to give a B-Mom money. There are certain expenses that can be covered by you but, all handling of money should go through your attorney to keep everything legal and to be sure that whatever bill is being covered is ok for you to contribute too.

It can be a tricky balance between you and B-Mom but, I think it's really important to remember that technically this is still B-Moms baby and she is going to have a lot of High's and Low's and the best and healthiest thing to do is be as supportive, understanding and flexible as possible. But, also try and stick to whatever plan you had originally set between you and be clear about it.

Karen1024 · November 2013

1. Not sure what your situation is and this may be totally off but you might want to look into adoption scams. We were scammed so I know it happens.

2. We communicated a lot by text with our DD's BM before the birth. After the birth it was difficult slowing down the communication but having a social worker with an agency really helped because it gave her someone else to talk to. It was difficult setting those boundaries at first but we talked about it directly, have made it a year and I think our relationship is growing just fine! We are not close and I don't want to be but I'll send photos via text and she occasionally will ask for one or wish us a happy holiday. Having a social worker to talk to really helped so I too would encourage you to look into using an agency or independent social worker to help both parties!

3. While I respect others and want to be sensitive I've found people are easily offended on the adoption/parenting/baby boards so don't let it get to you too much. I didn't read all the posts above too closely so I'm not talking about anyone specific here I just noticed you trying to clarify about not being degrading etc… It's good to learn from other's perspectives but don't take anything personally. Otherwise these boards can be super toxic!

Good luck! The roller coaster is totally worth it!!!

MrsMuenich · November 2013

Dr.Loretta said:

She has never made an adoption plan before, so she's not prepared for what anyone may be feeling after the birth and placement. Which again I can understand, I don't think anyone knows how they'll feel until it actually happens.
Thanks, Dr. L. This is true; there are things I can look back on and be like, "How did I not know to tell them this?" or "Why did it take me so long to realize I felt that?" But I'd never placed a child for adoption before.
I know people are getting onto you about some things. It can be hard to not be a little sensitive, as someone who has placed her child into the arms of practical strangers and had to trust them with someone she desperately loves.
I also know, as a BM, it can be hard to wrap your head around other BMs who don't have the same feelings towards their birth children, or who have more situational difficulties than those of us who have the time and abilities to participate on an internet forum.
I would suggest counseling to her in the strongest possible terms. As a BM, this is what helped me get through the process to where there was enough time that I could really see how DS benefited from his adoption. Even for her current daughter's sake, counseling (from an agency or from an independent counselor who's trained with grief counseling) will have enormous benefit if she's willing to go.
I mean, that being said, I don't think it should be a no deal if she's not willing to go. You can't force people to make good decisions.

justjinny · November 2013

I'm currently going through an adoption of a newborn in Wisconsin and am using an agency. WI is a state with very pro-birthparent centered laws (which is a good thing in my opinion). We've had our future-adoptive son home for over 2 weeks now and still don't have a court date set for TPR. Our birthmother & her family have been great, it's just that it's totally up to her to decide when she is ready for the the court procedures to begin. Once the BM is ready, we're still looking at 4 weeks minimum until we will have a court date set for TPR. Until then, this is just a legal-risk foster placement. From everything we've learned so far, that's kinda how it goes in WI - there's no quick 2-3 day TPR here if you're taking care of a newborn right from the hospital - it's usually 1 month or more. If I didn't have a good & open relationship with our son's birthmother, I wouldn't be able to enjoy these first days with him as much. I'd be a total wreck if I had to wait 4-8 weeks in limbo with a situation like what you're describing.

I would strongly recommend that you talk with whomever is completing your homestudy to see if they can offer any additional services. Not only could they direct you towards educational materials on open adoptions, but they really should be able to help you navigate what's legal or not in our state (like what the limit is for paying birthparent living & health expenses.) Also, it's very easy for people (be it online or in real life) to get turned off by phrases or words that may not seem offensive to you. Going through mandatory adoption education courses or readings set up by an agency really does help you learn the correct lingo and be better prepared for building a good relationship with birthparents. It definitely helped me!

I know that our agency has much much smaller fees for independent adoptions than they do for when they make the match. If you're concerned about agency fees, I would ask if already having a match makes a difference in their fees. In my opinion, having the resources of the counseling and expertise of a good agency has been priceless so far. In the end you will have to decide what amount of risk you're willing to accept in taking this placement. You should consider if you're ready to take this child home knowing that you may have many weeks, not just days, after placement in which the birthmother could change her mind.

Ok, sorry this got kind of long

I really do wish you good luck!

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