NineOceans

Littlejen22 · October 2013

I am starting this thread so I don't hijack the others. Your zero tolerance are no drugs or pre-marital sex. So you call the police if you find drugs then what do you do if your child legally consents to sex? Kick them out? I find the words zero tolerance and pre-marital sex together to be so odd in a post about having kids arrested.

I have to say I find it even weirder on a BF board where someone was obviously with more than sexual partner so saving yourself for marriage so they are the only person you are ever with does not really work. Of course if a first spouse died then I apologize because this part would not apply.

Littlejen22 · October 2013

See this seems like the same people that kick out their kids because they are gay too.

Lavender P · October 2013

I was wondering about that too...

Nineoceans · October 2013

Why is it odd? If you read the rest of my posts you will see why that's how we feel.

Not that I really care about what you think but my sons could be transsexual tea party members if they want. They can be garbage men or work at mcdonalds but they will not be on drugs or impregnating people they are not married to IN MY HOUSE because I want them to be and do better than we are.

They deserve to meet their full potential without distraction or having to worry about caring for someone else before they can care for themselves. If you've lived in a world where a little pot is no big deal then great for you and seriously consider yourself privileged. That is not our situation.

As for the hypocrisy of my SS being born out of wedlock ironically I don't think we will need to worry about that because I think it has been very sad for him to see his parents in pain attempting unsuccessfully now for almost a decafe to coparent or reach a middle ground on anything. I hope he makes the conscious decision not to continue the cycle but if not then there will be consequences

hopanka · October 2013

Hmm, I'm not sure the no tolerance on pre-marital sex is realistic, but to each their own. I am just wondering, what you will do, if you find out your DS had sex, let's say at 16 years old. Is he going to be kicked out of the house? Or what will be the consequence? I'm not being snarky, but I truly do not know of too many teens in my generation or the current teen generation that would pass your test. So, the odds are against you, just saying.

Littlejen22 · October 2013

Hopanka that is totally my point. And I am reading this to mean that if he has sex at 16 he can go live on the streets. How would that do anyone any good?

And BTW I had sex before marriage and did not get PG until we TTC. It is totally possible to have sex and be responsible.

If his parents could not keep it in their pants I do find the double standard funny. I would strongly suggest teaching prober birth control which I seriously doubt was happening when he was conceived. It is more productive to teach that if you give in to temptation use double birth control and STD protection than wind up with a kid that is uneducated and likely to do it anyway. Learning from his parents mistakes will likely not involve abstaining just like kids of smokers are more likely to smoke themselves. Beyond that the average age of marriage where I live in 30 for a man and 27 or 28 for a woman, if I were a betting woman I would the age of people getting married is way lower for virgins and the percentage of people waiting for marriage is lower among people that marry later in life. And the divorce rate is known to be higher with people that marry younger. So your child can run off at 18 and get married to have sex and be divorced a year later. That does not solve anything.

And where did I ever say doing a little pot is fine? Never in my life have I said that.

Oh, and BTW, if your child was transexual you would have daughter.

SimpleJane · October 2013

Littlejen22 said:
Hopanka that is totally my point. And I am reading this to mean that if he has sex at 16 he can go live on the streets. How would that do anyone any good?

And BTW I had sex before marriage and did not get PG until we TTC. It is totally possible to have sex and be responsible.

If his parents could not keep it in their pants I do find the double standard funny. I would strongly suggest teaching prober birth control which I seriously doubt was happening when he was conceived. It is more productive to teach that if you give in to temptation use double birth control and STD protection than wind up with a kid that is uneducated and likely to do it anyway. Learning from his parents mistakes will likely not involve abstaining just like kids of smokers are more likely to smoke themselves. Beyond that the average age of marriage where I live in 30 for a man and 27 or 28 for a woman, if I were a betting woman I would the age of people getting married is way lower for virgins and the percentage of people waiting for marriage is lower among people that marry later in life. And the divorce rate is known to be higher with people that marry younger. So your child can run off at 18 and get married to have sex and be divorced a year later. That does not solve anything.
And where did I ever say doing a little pot is fine? Never in my life have I said that.

Oh, and BTW, if your child was transexual you
would have daughter.

Jen, I love you more every day. I mean that in the he least creepy way possible.

Lavender P · October 2013

I could be the pot reference. I said I wouldn't call the cops if SS came home with a little pot. However i also would never kick my kid out for having premarital sex. I guess we all have our rules and boundaries.

suburbanstepmom · October 2013

Littlejen22 said:

Hopanka that is totally my point. And I am reading this to mean that if he has sex at 16 he can go live on the streets. How would that do anyone any good? And BTW I had sex before marriage and did not get PG until we TTC. It is totally possible to have sex and be responsible. If his parents could not keep it in their pants I do find the double standard funny. I would strongly suggest teaching prober birth control which I seriously doubt was happening when he was conceived. It is more productive to teach that if you give in to temptation use double birth control and STD protection than wind up with a kid that is uneducated and likely to do it anyway. Learning from his parents mistakes will likely not involve abstaining just like kids of smokers are more likely to smoke themselves. Beyond that the average age of marriage where I live in 30 for a man and 27 or 28 for a woman, if I were a betting woman I would the age of people getting married is way lower for virgins and the percentage of people waiting for marriage is lower among people that marry later in life. And the divorce rate is known to be higher with people that marry younger. So your child can run off at 18 and get married to have sex and be divorced a year later. That does not solve anything. And where did I ever say doing a little pot is fine? Never in my life have I said that. Oh, and BTW, if your child was transexual you would have daughter.

This.

I think that you can have whatever boundries and "no tolerance" policies you'd like but when it comes down to it if you want to really help your child then you need to EDUCATE them. They aren't born knowing WHY premarital sex might be wrong and HOW they can prevent pregnancy and STDs. You need to have an open and honest conversation with them about how to make their decisions wisely.

I feel like a conversation of "If you have premarital sex you're dead to me" (obviously not what you said but you get my point) wouldn't help your child, or any child, feel more comfortable or prepared to face the decisions they'll encounter in their life. Kids have sex... we all know that.

I guess my rant here is all to say that I think it could be approached in a much more loving and understanding way. Even if it's black & white to you it may not be for your child.

fellesferie · October 2013

I personally do not see the point in having a zero tolerance policy on anything. There are just so many variables to any circumstance-- what drugs are prohibited? Illegal substances? Rx drugs? Any OTC that isn't theirs? How are you going to know if he's having sex? What constitutes sex?

With my kids, I try not to set myself up for ANYTHING that I am not 100% positive I will follow through on. If I sell a zero tolerance policy on pot and bust DD with a friend who's smoking, what do I do? I could drug test her, but that wouldn't tell me 100%.

ambrvan · October 2013

I think the wording of "zero tolerance" was blown way out of proportion and taken entirely too literally here.

And teaching your kids not to do something even though you did it before is not a double standard. It is you as a parent learning from your own mistakes and trying to help your kids not make the same ones. Looking at that as an unfair double standard is like arguing that since you drove a car while intoxicated when you were a teenager it's ok for your child to do that. Umm...I don't anyone would agree with that. So teaching your child but to drive drunk even though you might have done it once is not a double standard.

I do think parents should model the behavior they are trying to teach. But if the parent made a mistake before and want to teach their kids that it was wrong, what is the problem with that?

Also, I absolutely 100% agree with the statement about educating them no matter whether you are teaching abstinence or not. Education of safe sex and STD/pregnancy prevention are a must.

xmaryrickx · October 2013

ambrvan said:
I think the wording of "zero tolerance" was blown way out of proportion and taken entirely too literally here.

And teaching your kids not to do something even though you did it before is not a double standard. It is you as a parent learning from your own mistakes and trying to help your kids not make the same ones. Looking at that as an unfair double standard is like arguing that since you drove a car while intoxicated when you were a teenager it's ok for your child to do that. Umm...I don't anyone would agree with that. So teaching your child but to drive drunk even though you might have done it once is not a double standard.

I do think parents should model the behavior they are trying to teach. But if the parent made a mistake before and want to teach their kids that it was wrong, what is the problem with that?

Also, I absolutely 100% agree with the statement about educating them no matter whether you are teaching abstinence or not. Education of safe sex and STD/pregnancy prevention are a must.

Try telling an 18 year old it's not a double standard, when they know they were conceived out of wedlock. But then I don't think sex and drugs are nearly the same, nor do I think they should be treated the same way.

I think it's important to be honest about expectations and why you feel the way you do about them However, I think the whole sex thing is nuts, and completely unreasonable. Good luck with that.

ambrvan · October 2013

xmaryrickx said:

ambrvan said:
I think the wording of "zero tolerance" was blown way out of proportion and taken entirely too literally here.

And teaching your kids not to do something even though you did it before is not a double standard. It is you as a parent learning from your own mistakes and trying to help your kids not make the same ones. Looking at that as an unfair double standard is like arguing that since you drove a car while intoxicated when you were a teenager it's ok for your child to do that. Umm...I don't anyone would agree with that. So teaching your child but to drive drunk even though you might have done it once is not a double standard.

I do think parents should model the behavior they are trying to teach. But if the parent made a mistake before and want to teach their kids that it was wrong, what is the problem with that?

Also, I absolutely 100% agree with the statement about educating them no matter whether you are teaching abstinence or not. Education of safe sex and STD/pregnancy prevention are a must.
Try telling an 18 year old it's not a double standard, when they know they were conceived out of wedlock. But then I don't think sex and drugs are nearly the same, nor do I think they should be treated the same way.

I think it's important to be honest about expectations and why you feel the way you do about them However, I think the whole sex thing is nuts, and completely unreasonable. Good luck with that.

I don't disagree with you that you should be honest about expectations and why you feel the way you do. I absolutely believe that if you are telling you're child not to do something you did, then you should be honest with them about you having done it and what consequences you suffered and that you don't want them to suffer the same hardships.

Well they listen? Maybe, maybe not. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink. It doesn't mean that you still shouldn't lead them there. This applies to all aspects of parenting, not just sex.

If SD asks for birth control someday, I will absolutely make sure she is as protected as possible. Will we still try to prevent her from having sex? As long as we can. Will we love her any less? No. Will we support her? Absolutely. Telling and teaching them that something is wrong even if you did it, is a parental responsibility.

If sex is not a priority value for you, that's just you. But for others it may be a serious issue.

I still firmly believe that all kids should be properly educated about sex and it's repercussions and have access to birth control in whatever form they need without barriers.

Nineoceans · October 2013

hopanka said:
Hmm, I'm not sure the no tolerance on pre-marital sex is realistic, but to each their own. I am just wondering, what you will do, if you find out your DS had sex, let's say at 16 years old. Is he going to be kicked out of the house? Or what will be the consequence? I'm not being snarky, but I truly do not know of too many teens in my generation or the current teen generation that would pass your test. So, the odds are against you, just saying.

Dh and I have discussed that we would be open to a boarding school, military school or inpatient therapy program with the ultimate goal of being reunified as a family after the message that we have expectations and goals that we do not take lightly is sent.

I ultimately do not care if there is sex before marriage just not while living at home...I don't think that's outrageous especially if we maintain clear communication with our children so they know without a doubt the effect of their actions before they make certain decisions---but thanks for all the luck!

Littlejen22 · October 2013

Nineoceans said:

hopanka said:
Hmm, I'm not sure the no tolerance on pre-marital sex is realistic, but to each their own. I am just wondering, what you will do, if you find out your DS had sex, let's say at 16 years old. Is he going to be kicked out of the house? Or what will be the consequence? I'm not being snarky, but I truly do not know of too many teens in my generation or the current teen generation that would pass your test. So, the odds are against you, just saying.
Dh and I have discussed that we would be open to a boarding school, military school or inpatient therapy program with the ultimate goal of being reunified as a family after the message that we have expectations and goals that we do not take lightly is sent.

I ultimately do not care if there is sex before marriage just not while living at home...I don't think that's outrageous especially if we maintain clear communication with our children so they know without a doubt the effect of their actions before they make certain decisions---but thanks for all the luck!

I am so baffled. So if you 17yo has sex he can go to impatient therapy or live where? On the streets? You do realize that inpatient therapy is for people with an actual psychiatric diagnosis right?

You would actually write off your child or they have to amend their ways to be "reunified" as a family? WFT is that?

I am still sitting here with my jaw dropped. I do not believe for one second you would be find with your child being gay or transgender if you would require inpatient treatment for having consensual sex.

This is the second craziest thing I have read on this board in the many many years I have been here. I never thought it would be you to jump the list to the top.

I hope your children never make a mistake, I would hate to see them wind up homeless for something that is not illegal and hurt no one.

xmaryrickx · October 2013

I am sitting in littlejen's corner. Military school, boarding school? Inpatient therapy (say what???) all for premarital sex. Nutso. The best thing you can do is educate your child about sex, and hope they make the right choices. Threatening them with boarding school or military school won't change their choices.

Littlejen22 · October 2013

And just to note that I am not saying at all that people should not have expectations for their children and try to teach their beliefs to them. Inpatient therapy for consentual sex is just a different thing all together and sounds way too much like reparative therapy.

Pamelacake · October 2013

I may get flamed for this but I don't want to leave out any facts. We had an incident a few months ago where 16yo SS was busted with some homemade smoking devices. (a pop can and a plastic bottle with a hole in it with one of DH's sockets taped to it)

16yo SS wasn't at home at the time we were told about the things being in the game room. We were told by DH's nephew who was staying with us at the time (he was doing it too, but ratted SS out almost immediately after SS left our home, but denied doing it himself) DH and I immediately went to the game room and went through everything. That's when we found the smoking things. One of them smelled like pot and the other smelled of tobacco. (the little boy that was visiting had stolen a bunch of cigarette butts from his parents and later in the summer stole a pack of cigarettes sitting on someone's porch across the street from the park where they play basketball) and I'm not blaming this little boy, no one made the other boys try it.

10yo DS was here when these things were found as well. When I questioned him about seeing or trying anything, he said no he didn't. I could immediately tell he was lying as he had tears in his eyes. He started telling the truth but was trying to tell me that the other boys told him he had to (I'm pretty sure this was a copout) I had a separate talk with him and told him that I did not want him to do that, It wasn't a good thing to do and it was something that could ruin his life. DS is a straight A student. I think he was just happy to be hanging out with all of the other boys. It's not that I was easier on DS than the other boys. DH and I handled the punishment separately, but the punishment was the same. I was furious that my son had tried to smoke this at such an early age, I didn't yell, I was so mad I cried. but I know he didn't get anything from it. He was spilling it to me as he was crying, he even told me he had tried smoking a cigarette while staying the night with another cousin about a year ago but they couldn't get the lighter lit.

DH talked to SS about the consequences and his future and I think it may have even brought them closer together.

We bought at home drug tests but haven't had to use them.. yet.

About a month after all of this, SS (16) "ran away" we knew where he was at immediately. He has sever ADHD and needed some time to cool off after a huge fight with his BM. DH went to pick him up the next day and SS immediately admitted to DH that he had tried to smoke pot again. He then promised he would never try it again (and even stopped being friends with this other boy) B/C he wanted to do better. SS has had a much better attitude and is doing better than he ever has in school. We have even started talking about colleges. Will he slip up again? who knows but it's so easy for kids to obtain these things. (not an excuse, not trying to just sweep it under the rug) We would never kick him out for something like this though or any of the kids.

SS was in between counselors at this time, his regular counselor found a job in another area.

About the sex, 16yo SS has a new GF. Someone he has been friends with for 3 years now. DH and I have discussed getting him condoms, not to promote him having sex, but as a precaution. DH and SS have had sex talks. SS is very respectable to girls. A lot of his friends are girls. Would we kick him out for having sex? NO. SS is very open with talking to DH about his experience with girls and sometimes he talks to me about it as well, but mostly DH which is totally understandable. SS just had his first foreplay this past week and that's when I brought up the condoms to DH. SS said he isn't ready for sex but if he's doing "foreplay" it probably won't be long. Fingers crossed that it will still be a while though.

I'm sorry so long, just wanted to share my recent experience with these two subjects and I fully agree that threatening those types of programs are not the right way to go. I didn't read the other post but I do think that it starts at home, and counseling is a huge help if it's not something that can be solved at home.

We also try to remember how it was for us growing up, How easy it was to access these things.I was introduced to drugs at an extremely early age by my own parents. We can't hide the kids from all of these things.. it's even easier for kids to get their hands on these things now. The best thing is educating them.

Littlejen22 · October 2013

Pamela I really think access has a lot to do with who you hang out with. Yes it would be easy to find stuff if you try but if you only hang out with kids that don't do drugs you won't be offered them. I also think that sometimes how you deal with issues has a lot to do with situations. I will honestly say that if we did not have a baby in the house we might have handled SDs drug issues slightly different, still would not tolerate but finding pot in her pocketbook and knowing she was doing pills would not have been dangerous to others at least but part of dealing with her was worrying about the safety of an innocent baby. And I really do believe it was not a step-kid versus bio-kid but an almost adult/adult versus safety of a baby or little kid. I know that JustJ found pills in her exSSs room just sitting there where her toddler could have easily have found them. No one could blame her for saying he could not live there anymore.

I think you guys handled it well. Hopefully it won't happen again but if it does I have faith you guys will come down harder on them.

Pamelacake · October 2013

Yes.. will definitely come down harder if it happens again. It wasn't ever in the house, the game room is in the garage but still. LO's getting ahold of that kind of crap would be bad and even the chance of them getting ahold of something would send me through the roof!

sweetie0228 · October 2013

Just so you know, inpatient therapy, even when you know they need it and it will save their life, is not an easy decision and a decision you can't unmake right away. Social workers become envolved, follow up care, many many doctors who have the access to court systems faster than you to keep the child in care.

Then there are rules about who can see or call and when. And if the patient is not on a restriction and is able to recieve visitors or calls.

It can also cost upwards of $5k a day.

I lived that it was the best decision and it saved my child's life but it was for something much more serious than premartial sex and for gods sake it wasn't for a consquence or a punishment. IT WAS TO SAVE HER LIFE.

until you actually cross the bridge of a teenager in desprate need of help, you have no idea what you are talking about and your flippant ideas of sending the problem away sickens me.

CurlyQ284 · October 2013

I agree with @sweetie0228. Inpatient therapy is not appropriate for premarital sex.They need to spend there time and resources on people who are ACTUALLY sick. It'd just a bad idea all around.

Outpatient therapy would be better here.

Littlejen22 · October 2013

Curly but do you think choosing to have sex in a committed relationship warrants any therapy? She was talking about any kid living at home so we could be talking about an adult that if they have sex before marriage they can it live at home whether they are a minor or not. And I hate that I could sound to conservative people like I am saying everyone should run around having sex with anyone but I am funny assuming a long term relationship and havin responsible sex after careful consideration. I am not talking about someone that is being promiscuous and unsafe which would require therapy to make better choices.

FWIW I was almost 16.5 when I lost my virginity. Do I think I should have so young? No. At the same time I cannot fully regret it because I was with the guy for over a year and we were together for a total of six years before we broke up. I know for certain that he was never had sex with another person for years after we broke up so it was a committed relationship. I really believe that is I decided that I would not have sex until I was married I would have married him and it would have been a HUGE mistake. I was almost 30 when I got married and I do not know anyone IRL that waited until that age to have sex for the first time so while I probably should have made some smarter decisions in life I really think getting married first was not one.

I will say that I am not sure if her true concern is pre-marital sex or the fear of getting PG. in her post it seemed like PG was the main concern but then she said "reunified as a family" which sounds like conservative Christian speak for making people do what you like and hating anyone with views that differ from your own.

CurlyQ284 · October 2013

@littlejen22. No I don't think premarital sex warrants therapy at all but most of my thoughts have already been said by other posters so that wasthe only 'new' piece to add. I think its completely normal. Most people lose their virginity in their teen years. Parents don't like it but its nornal. I think the best thing to do is to educate and teach them to be responsible.

If she is detemined to do all these consequences I just think the inpatient is the worst option here. @nineoceans have you BEEN to an inpatient hospital? I used to volunteer during undergrad and it was so horrible. The patients I saw were so heavily medicated or so sick they were essentially vegetables or had the mental capabilities of a small child (we did puzzles). One lady had PPD so bad she destroyed the common room and hurt some other patients in the process. Then you have people there for drug addiction, going through withdrawal which is horrible and scary. It is NOT the place for a normal teenager. If you are absolutely set on this path of harsh consequences please do NOT choose this one. I suggest you visit one before you make up your mind.

Also there is a ton of sex at boarding and military schools. Tons. You don't seem to choose options that will actually get you any kind of behavior change that youre looking for. It seems like you just don't want to deal with it. You'd be better off with education. Then you can ignore it but your kid will be safer.

Pamelacake · October 2013

I don't know the whole back story here so I apologize if I am out of line. BUT Inpatient rehab or therapy, a detention center for minor reasons really ... This ticks me off. And I'm sorry but this is gonna be long!!

I was placed in an inpatient facility after I was finally reunited with my mom after 4 years of being bounced around through different family members. Yes.. my mom moved me out of her home when I was 11. My parents were still together, her excuse was "I was a problem child" I was a straight A student I took care of my (at the time) 4 younger siblings, I cooked, I cleaned, I made sure their clothes were clean as well as her work clothes, I never complained about anything. My mom sent me away because I was being molested for years and she knew about it. She sent ME away, not the perp. Her problem was not solved as I have 2 younger sisters. Sorry, just a little backstory.

I moved back in with my mom by choice b/c I ended up back with my dad after their divorce. He wouldn't enroll me in school and b/c I wasn't emancipated could not enroll myself.

When I was 15, I moved back in with her after going to 7 different schools, 1 of them 3 different times. I had 2 jobs and went to high school while living with her. All of my money from my jobs went into my mother's home, I didn't hand it to her. I would use it for groceries for my siblings, or they would have had none!

Back to topic... when I finally started hanging out with a girl about a year older than me.. We got busted with some pot. My mom had found a way to get rid of me again. She went into the courtroom and asked the judge to send me to INPATIENT THERAPY. The judge complied but he was not stupid and he didn't even know my backstory. I was in that facility for 6 months. I was no longer needed there b/c they didn't see an issue. So, I was moved to a JUVENILE DETENTION CENTER and there was nothing my mother could do, even if she tried. She came to see me one time while in the inpatient. It was out of her hands. They sent me there waiting for an opening for a foster home. I was finally sent to a foster home after about 4 months in the detention center, which was a jail for kids. I was in there with people who had murdered their parents, stolen cars, prostituted themselves. It was INSANE!

I was sent to a foster home where I was accused of stealing medication, yeah.. I stole medication that I didn't even know was there.. haha, and I wasn't even into drugs. I became pregnant while in this foster home, with the first guy I willingly had sex with, after we had dated for a little while. Foster mother was furious b/c she couldn't make me have an abortion. She tried pushing me down the basement stairs, I couldn't eat anything at her home b/c she was putting things in the food to make me have a M/C, she would do this right in front of me at first and when I refused I was held down and she tried to force it down my throat. It got deep. I had to tell someone. The only person I trusted telling was my probation officer (still on probation for the pot, my year in hell for no reason didn't count towards that) I was immediately removed from the foster home, then found out that Foster mother had stolen all of my money from my job that I was saving for baby, to pay for a script of pain pills that she stole from another girl who was there. Foster mother was later investigated again and lost her license. It turns out she has been a meth addict for quite a few years. She was found dead a couple of years later from an overdose.

The judge came in as well as a prosecutor while I was talking to my probation officer. They asked me if I wanted to press charges, I didn't. I should have BC she could have really hurt someone else if it continued with other kids. It didn't matter.. they investigated her anyways. They gave me the option to either go to a woman's shelter or go back to my mom. I should have opted for the shelter but went to my mom's. I thought that just maybe, we could start a relationship. HA. Silly Me! I had DD, then came home from work one day with baskets full of clothes in my mom's front lawn. Her excuse, I was never home. It's not like she was taking care of anything for me.. I never asked her to watch DD or anything. I stayed with a friend, finished school, got my own place and started college, all while working.

I'm sorry this is long but I felt like I needed to share at least a bit of what these facilities can do to someone if not needed. I could have added so much more. It does nothing! It makes the situation worse and it sickens me that people can even consider such a thing.

There are kids out there that need real help! These facilities don't need someone in there taking up a bed just bc someone doesn't want to deal with a problem or potential problem at home. and if anyone thinks that drugs and sex are not going on in these places.. I'm sorry but you are dead wrong! I have seen it firsthand, other "inmates" and staff. I will say I was never touched in the inpatient place but I did have to fight a grown man who worked there.

CurlyQ284 · October 2013

((@pamelacake)) and some more ((hugs)) damn. I hope you are OK after going through that.

@nineoceans what do you hope to accomplish by sending the kid away? Is it like "you're banished until you agree to our rules?". None of those three places exist to target premarital sex behaviors so....what is the logic here? It really doesn't seem like you are trying to solve a (perceived) problem it seems more like...well banishment.

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