Not specifically BF - but question on discipline

Banana44 · October 2013

I don't want to go into the whole situation, but I am wondering how other people feel about this. Here is what happened:

10 yo (R) re-told a racist joke he heard during lunch. 1 girl got upset, told a teacher. The following day the 10yo is brought to the school counselor - he admits to telling the joke and says that he was told the joke by another student (N). The N denies telling the joke - but eventually school counselor asks more children involved and it comes out that N told the joke and R did re-tell it to more student. Both students get an in school suspension.

Here is my question: Do you have further consequences for your child?

CFjo2010 · October 2013

I don't think I would have further consequences per se, if the child didn't realize the joke was inappropriate. But I would definitely sit my child down and explain to them why the joke is hurtful. Then I would have the child write a letter apologizing to the girl who was upset by the joke.

Now if the child knew the joke was inappropriate and still repeated it, I would also have my child write me a paper over the weekend explaining why the joke was wrong, how those types of jokes hurt people's feelings, and how she would feel if someone was saying those types of jokes about her. The TV and video game privileges would probably be taken away for the weekend as well.

Banana44 · October 2013

He did know that the joke was inappropriate.

He didn't know the full impact - but when re-telling the joke he knew that it was mean (these are his words)

Littlejen22 · October 2013

I this is the first time I would let that be the consequence but the day of suspension I would not make the day fun.

Can I ask you opinion if you thought the joke was hurtful and obvious enough to warrant a suspension? Did N know that the joke was inappropriate? And let me give the disclaimer that I am fairly politically correct and try to teach my kids not to say things based on appearances that could hurt feelings. My kids are no-racial and my step-FIL is a third race. We are a diverse group but I am sure that my kids while much younger are naive enough to not see something as mean. And as the parent I would not want to see other kids suspended for telling a joke if it was innocent as long as they get a lecture about WHY it was wrong.

CFjo2010 · October 2013

Banana44 said:

He did know that the joke was inappropriate.

He didn't know the full impact - but when re-telling the joke he knew that it was mean (these are his words)

If this was my DD (who is 10) I would do as stated above. And I heavily emphasize the need for him to write a letter of apology to the girl who was upset my the joke. I think it's really important for kids to feel the gravity of their actions and be held accountable for things like this early on.

Littlejen22 · October 2013

Banana44 said:
He did know that the joke was inappropriate.

He didn't know the full impact - but when re-telling the joke he knew that it was mean (these are his words)

Ok then he deserves the suspension. Unfortunately kids today are taught three strikes and you are out but that is not how the word works. My punishment for him would be the day of suspension he would be getting a huge lecture abou why it was wrong and hurtful and an explanation that when we screw up in the real world there are often immediate consequence which is why he did not get a second chance before suspension but that the day is over and I expect more from him in the future. My natural instinct is to beat someone up over a mistake but I try to then let it go and move on.

Nineoceans · October 2013

Absolutely one week of grounding and then to watch an age appropriate video about the holocaust or civil rights movement and to write a letter to the teacher apologizing for offending her and explaining why it will never happen again

This is how racism perpetuates, but is a very teachable moment for a child. Not everyone in nazi Germany was racist but they didn't speak against it. I would punish my kids if I even heard they laughed at a racist joke much less told one

fellesferie · October 2013

I like Jo's idea. I'd certainly have my child write the apology letter to the child who was offended. We would definitely have a serious (but probably not angry or stern) conversation.

But from that point forward I think I would just try to keep an eye on it. I'd look for the right moments to reinforce the idea that people are different and no one is better than anyone else.

Kind of ironic--this past weekend, DH and I had a Les Mis concert on TV. DS likes a couple of the songs, so he came down and started watching it with us. It led to a pretty good conversation on oppression and equality. We talked about France, the American Civil War, what's going on in Syria, etc.

Banana44 · October 2013

Littlejen - the joke was very obviously hurtful and very obviously racist. This is the first time he has said a racist joke like this but it is not the first time he has said something inappropriate (usually loking for attention). We have had issues with excessive cursing and lying.
He did write a letter to the girl while at BMs house. We bought a book (age appropriate and reading level appropriate) about Jackie Robinson and he has to write a 2 page report on how racism affected Jackie. He also lost outdoor priveleges during our custody time this week (2 days).
BM thinks he should be commended for telling the truth when confronted and that us having a consequence is cruel and unusual.

bebe11 · October 2013

I like the idea of writing an appology letter. It makes them think about what they said and that it was wrong, and to appologize for this along with admitting you were wrong goes a long way.

My dd is 11 (will turn 12 in 1 month), she had a fight with one of her friends, and I found out that she purposely hurt her friends feelings by making fun of her parents for something that they collect (the girls Mom told me about it). I had a talk with my DD and made her write an appology to her friends Mom.

CFjo2010 · October 2013

Banana44 said:

Littlejen - the joke was very obviously hurtful and very obviously racist. This is the first time he has said a racist joke like this but it is not the first time he has said something inappropriate (usually loking for attention). We have had issues with excessive cursing and lying. He did write a letter to the girl while at BMs house. We bought a book (age appropriate and reading level appropriate) about Jackie Robinson and he has to write a 2 page report on how racism affected Jackie. He also lost outdoor priveleges during our custody time this week (2 days). BM thinks he should be commended for telling the truth when confronted and that us having a consequence is cruel and unusual.

So wait, BM wants you guys to applaud SS for repeating a joke that he knew was inappropriate and hurtful? Yes, it's good he told who the joke originated from, but SS needs to accept some responsibility for turning around and repeating it. Just because one kid told the joke doesn't make it ok for SS to repeat it, especially since he knew it was hurtful to others.

Dear BM: Your son is going to be living with you until he's 40 because you never hold him accountable for things....

cole2144 · October 2013

Banana44 said:

Littlejen - the joke was very obviously hurtful and very obviously racist. This is the first time he has said a racist joke like this but it is not the first time he has said something inappropriate (usually loking for attention). We have had issues with excessive cursing and lying. He did write a letter to the girl while at BMs house. We bought a book (age appropriate and reading level appropriate) about Jackie Robinson and he has to write a 2 page report on how racism affected Jackie. He also lost outdoor priveleges during our custody time this week (2 days). BM thinks he should be commended for telling the truth when confronted and that us having a consequence is cruel and unusual.

I agree with everything you did, that is an appropriate punishment IMO.

Banana44 · October 2013

Jo - I agree. Not only that but she waited an entire day before she told DH and minimized everything. DH didn't get the truth until he talked to the principal and SS.
We tried to not make SS punishment harsh, but in my opinion he needed a litle more reinforcement than the suspension.
Also, BM wrote the apology letter and then had SS re write it in his own writing. She holds him accountable for nothing.
I was beginning to think I was crazy for having consequences for him outside of school.

Nineoceans · October 2013

BM needs to raise her standards a bit. Applaud is the last word that would pop into my mind over this situation. As far as telling the truth he only did so to blame another kid. Not impressive

CFjo2010 · October 2013

Banana44 said:

Jo - I agree. Not only that but she waited an entire day before she told DH and minimized everything. DH didn't get the truth until he talked to the principal and SS. We tried to not make SS punishment harsh, but in my opinion he needed a litle more reinforcement than the suspension. Also, BM wrote the apology letter and then had SS re write it in his own writing. She holds him accountable for nothing. I was beginning to think I was crazy for having consequences for him outside of school.

My XMIL never held DC accountable for anything, and she still blames everyone else for his "errors". That man is 32 years old and nothing that has happened in his life is his fault. His affair? Totally my fault. Him moving to TN? Again, my fault. His inability to find and maintain gainful employment, whose fault? Mine of course. Well, and the State of CA for "hunting him down like an animal" for the CS he owes me.

Unless and until SS is forced to feel some real consequences and be held accountable for his actions, he's going to feel justified in acting out because it surely can't be his fault. Someone else made him act that way. So I say keep punishing him when he acts out, keep holding him accountable for things. Lord knows you don't want him turning out like DC.

Lavender P · October 2013

I think it is great that he had to write an apology letter and a book report on Jackie Robinson. Those are good ways to get him to think about his actions. When he isn't in trouble anymore, I would watch the movie 42 with him. We watched it with my SS who is also 10 and it was a great movie. We thought it was very educational, but age appropriate as well. It really illustrated Jackie's personal struggle and how one person can affect change.

I also would emphasize @Nineoceans point that it is not okay to just stand by when others are getting picked on or persecuted.

Littlejen22 · October 2013

I don't think BM is totally wrong. I lying has been an issue in the past I do think he should be commended for being truthful this time. If you don't tell him you are happy he did not lie about it then he will not learn that honestly is a good thing. Those are not mutually exclusive. Since he knew not to say it and did so anyway then I think your ideas are good to help him learn. Did you guy make him write the letter or did BM or the school? I think this is appropriate.

Banana44 · October 2013

BM had him write the letter before we knew about it. So it could have been her idea or the school's, we don't know. I do know she wrote the letter or at least most of the letter. SS told us that.
He was told that we were proud he didn't try to lie and since he didn't try to lie we aren't taking away his phone. So not a reward, but reduced punishment.
His BM does not think he lies. She has used the words corageous, commendable, and applaud when speaking about him telling the truth. The principal told my SS that he threw a friend under the bus. I think he was between a rock and a hard place. He knew he was caught. But I am proud he didn't try to lie.

Wahoo · October 2013

I am side-eyeing the principal who is telling your SS that he threw a friend under the bus. What is that about? Your SS should get in trouble, but other people who told the joke should get away with it if they weren't caught?

I think the punishment needs to tie with how your kids are in general. My kids are pretty sensitive to diversity issues (MIL was disabled). My kids would have had to apologize the girl and get a lecture on diversity/sensitivity and hurting feelings. I would be harder on them if I thought they were turning into jr. KKK members.

If you have a kid who lies, you need to reward them (even if it is only with praise) for telling the truth. If they get nothing out of telling the truth, you are not going to change their behavior.

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