Where does DH go from here? UPDATE at the bottom

cole2144 · September 2013

When DH won 50/50 custody of SD in Dec, they were ordered to attend co-parenting counseling which DH wanted anyway. It was hard to find a therapist as BM refused to travel more than 10-15 minutes from her home for sessions. When they did find someone, it was made abundantly clear that the therapist would have no part of any court proceedings and was only there to help them co-parent better. They have been going for a couple months now. The therapist has contacted my husband to tell him they need to find a new one because the therapist refused to provide the notes and status reports that BM has apparently been demanding behind DH`s back. What does he do now? Since the judge never stipulated a certain amount of time, has he fulfilled his obligation? Ideally DH thinks all four of us need to sit down together at some point so we can all try to be on the same page. At the same time, he will not agree to waive confidentiality during their therapy sessions. DH has said all along that BM is extremely hostile in the sessions, and he feels she is trying to make it appear that there is no way they could co-parent so the judge will put the old schedule back. BM claims she will keep taking him back to court until things go back to the way they were.

Banana44 · September 2013

My Honest opinion - find another therapist and keep going.

We are (unfortunately) going back to court after 4 years of rest, and my DH wanted to stop counseling because it was getting no where. BM screamed for an hour (mostly about me being the devil) she wouldn't listen to the counselor and no movement was made. Eventually the counselor fired them (I joke you not) and said they were beyond help. The counselor saying this does not mean the judge will take away 50/50 custody. He may - but it is not a given.

Your DH was the one coming from behind - so I think he needs to stay on the offensive - put on the whole "I am doing everything I can - even to the point of going above and beyond" face and keep going. Have him be proactive and find another counselor. I would send her a list of 5 and let her vet them. Make sure some of them are outside of her radius. In the end you can show that you kept trying to find another therapist.

Also, I would ask the old therapist to send you a letter describing why she can't see him anymore.

But he needs to keep trying. At least that's what I tell my DH. (although after being fired from the last therapist we are giving up for a little while).

cole2144 · September 2013

I agree but how do you get BM to keep going if she wants the therapist to give her notes and a status report and DH does not want to waive confidentiality? DH agrees with therapist that this should not be about court, it should be about doing everything in their power to work together for SD`s sake.

CFjo2010 · September 2013

Banana44 said:

My Honest opinion - find another therapist and keep going.

We are (unfortunately) going back to court after 4 years of rest, and my DH wanted to stop counseling because it was getting no where. BM screamed for an hour (mostly about me being the devil) she wouldn't listen to the counselor and no movement was made. Eventually the counselor fired them (I joke you not) and said they were beyond help. The counselor saying this does not mean the judge will take away 50/50 custody. He may - but it is not a given.

Your DH was the one coming from behind - so I think he needs to stay on the offensive - put on the whole "I am doing everything I can - even to the point of going above and beyond" face and keep going. Have him be proactive and find another counselor. I would send her a list of 5 and let her vet them. Make sure some of them are outside of her radius. In the end you can show that you kept trying to find another therapist.

Also, I would ask the old therapist to send you a letter describing why she can't see him anymore.

But he needs to keep trying. At least that's what I tell my DH. (although after being fired from the last therapist we are giving up for a little while).

All of this. I especially agree with having the therapist send a letter to DH and BM explaining why he/she can no longer see them. And then continue using that therapist until a new one is found. I would definitely let BM know that you are aware that she is demanding notes from the therapist. Both parties should have access to whatever info a therapist would provide (it's actually the law) and she should be put on notice that DH wants the same access.

Like Banana said, you want DH to be able to stand in front of the Judge and be able to honestly say that he is doing everything in his power to follow the CO and work with BM. Let BM look like the stubborn ass she is; she'll dig her own grave.

Banana44 · September 2013

cole2144 said:

I agree but how do you get BM to keep going if she wants the therapist to give her notes and a status report and DH does not want to waive confidentiality? DH agrees with therapist that this should not be about court, it should be about doing everything in their power to work together for SD`s sake.

You don't have to get BM to keep going - your DH just has to keep showing his desire to keep going.

Get the therapist to send him a letter.

Have him send an email to BM:

Why are you requesting paperwork from therapist when you know I will not allow the release and have confidentiality broken. This is affecting the therapist's ability to work with ua. This shouldn't be about court but bettering our relationship for the best interest of SD. Please continue seeing "therapist name" with me so that we can become the parenting team SS deserves, but to do that you need to drop the request for the therapist notes.

cole2144 · September 2013

Banana44 said:

cole2144 said:

I agree but how do you get BM to keep going if she wants the therapist to give her notes and a status report and DH does not want to waive confidentiality? DH agrees with therapist that this should not be about court, it should be about doing everything in their power to work together for SD`s sake.

You don't have to get BM to keep going - your DH just has to keep showing his desire to keep going.
Get the therapist to send him a letter.
Have him send an email to BM:
Why are you requesting paperwork from therapist when you know I will not allow the release and have confidentiality broken. This is affecting the therapist's ability to work with ua. This shouldn't be about court but bettering our relationship for the best interest of SD. Please continue seeing "therapist name" with me so that we can become the parenting team SS deserves, but to do that you need to drop the request for the therapist notes.

I will suggest to DH that he send an email to BM tonight. Thanks, it is so frustrating to see DH making such an effort with the sessions and in general, only to watch BM try to sabotage the whole thing. DH just wants them to get along for SD`s sake.

Banana44 · September 2013

Believe me - I get it.

My husband was mortified that they were fired by a therapist. The therapist actually said to them - you need lawyers not counselors. And then BM began smiling and the therapist called her out on it - said BM, why are you smiling, is this what you wanted? Does it make you happy that you are destroying your son? Are you pleased with the results of these sessions? Then she patted DH on the back and wished him good luck.

It is completely frustrating, but DH can only control his actions and do the best he can - he has to just keep trying.

dmndsr4eva · September 2013

I think he has met his obligation. He attended co parenting sessions. If it was not specified how many than attending several seems like it met the obligation to me. It sounds to me like all of you could use a break from each other. If I were him I would tell her that he feels he met his obligation with counseling and then going forward he should keep all contact with her to a bare minimum.

I am still just so confused on why she is still fighting this. Don't we all know once you have 50/50 is is near impossible to get a judge to reverse it? Man, I really feel for you. This lady is for sure nutso. You would think at some point in time she would start wanting to do what is best for her child.

It took me almost two years and BF breaking up with the homewrecker, but I have to say that I have come a long way and I am so glad to have a more positive outlook and be doing what is in my sons best interest.

fellesferie · September 2013

I agree that he should keep going, but I think he should let go of the hope that he will get anything out of it. She is totally uninterested in coparenting with you guys, and he can't want it enough for both of them.

dmndsr4eva · September 2013

And I do have to thank all of you for helping me get to this point. I really appreciate you all here and you have truly helped me survive these past two years.

cole2144 · September 2013

fellesferie said:

I agree that he should keep going, but I think he should let go of the hope that he will get anything out of it. She is totally uninterested in coparenting with you guys, and he can't want it enough for both of them.

I agree that co-parenting is not something BM has any interest in. It breaks my heart that she can not see she is doing to her daughter.

CFjo2010 · September 2013

fellesferie said:

I agree that he should keep going, but I think he should let go of the hope that he will get anything out of it. She is totally uninterested in coparenting with you guys, and he can't want it enough for both of them.

I agree with the bolded. But even if BM doesn't get anything out of the counseling, at least DH will. He can learn different ways to deal with issues that come up, and make constructive attempts to work with BM. Whenever problems arise, he can follow advice and recommendations from the therapist. Then at the next session he can bring up the issue with the therapist and say, "I tried what you suggested, but it just didn't work. Now what?" Who knows, maybe one day BM will figure out that she's the problem here. If not, oh well. At least DH will know that he is making an honest effort for his DD.

cole2144 · September 2013

dmndsr4eva said:

And I do have to thank all of you for helping me get to this point. I really appreciate you all here and you have truly helped me survive these past two years.

Glad to hear that you are in a better place regarding your co-parenting relationship with BD.

cole2144 · September 2013

jobalchak said:

fellesferie said:

I agree that he should keep going, but I think he should let go of the hope that he will get anything out of it. She is totally uninterested in coparenting with you guys, and he can't want it enough for both of them.

I agree with the bolded. But even if BM doesn't get anything out of the counseling, at least DH will. He can learn different ways to deal with issues that come up, and make constructive attempts to work with BM. Whenever problems arise, he can follow advice and recommendations from the therapist. Then at the next session he can bring up the issue with the therapist and say, "I tried what you suggested, but it just didn't work. Now what?" Who knows, maybe one day BM will figure out that she's the problem here. If not, oh well. At least DH will know that he is making an honest effort for his DD.

That is a great way to look at it. At least DH can learn tips for working better with BM.

CFjo2010 · September 2013

@cole DH and BM were ordered to do co-parenting classes a couple years ago and were to show proof of enrollment within a certain timeframe. DH had and enrolled and had completed 8 of the 12 classes prior to the date they were to show enrollment. BM didn't go until DH filed contempt and the Judge demanded she enroll immediately. They were supposed to show enrollment in May, BM didn't enroll until November. She had to appear in front of the Judge monthly with progress reports showing her compliance. Even then, she dragged out going and it took her 6 months to finish what should have only been a 3 month process. It was ridiculous. But it also was a huge indicator to the Judge who was willing to work on co-parenting and who wasn't.

Hang in there. I know how frustrating this all is.

dmndsr4eva · September 2013

We had a court order to do only two sessions with a counselor. I know they also offered the classes that were 8 sessions or something like that. I think it is odd that the order didn't have a specified time frame?

cole2144 · September 2013

dmndsr4eva said:

We had a court order to do only two sessions with a counselor. I know they also offered the classes that were 8 sessions or something like that. I think it is odd that the order didn't have a specified time frame?

No nothing just attend co-parenting and said that if all four of us wanted to go that would be fine too.

dmndsr4eva · September 2013

Maybe they meant the structured classes? You should sign up the the class that is 8-12 sessions. Also the classes are not for the parents to attend together. I never went but our mediator told us that we are allowed (he made it seem standard/preferred) to attend alone.

cole2144 · September 2013

dmndsr4eva said:

Maybe they meant the structured classes? You should sign up the the class that is 8-12 sessions. Also the classes are not for the parents to attend together. I never went but our mediator told us that we are allowed (he made it seem standard/preferred) to attend alone.

The judge said either was fine so I guess that will be the next step.

twister22 · September 2013

cole2144 said:

dmndsr4eva said:

Maybe they meant the structured classes? You should sign up the the class that is 8-12 sessions. Also the classes are not for the parents to attend together. I never went but our mediator told us that we are allowed (he made it seem standard/preferred) to attend alone.

The judge said either was fine so I guess that will be the next step.

BM is clearly at a point where she is completely unwilling to co-parent. DH clearly wants to. I would have DH send the email Banana suggested, and if BM refuses then DH should sign up for one of the 8 or 12 week sessions that he attends without BM (if the class allows, I think it would be beneficial for you to attend too.)

That being said, what is DH's reason for not waiving confidentiality? Is it because he thinks BM will manipulate things to show that they cannot co-parent and the 50/50 custody should be reversed?

cole2144 · September 2013

DH is going to look into the classes. He will not waive confidentiality because it was made clear from the beginning that this was supposed to be about SD and her well being, not about trying to get leverage for court. Both BM and DH need a protected space where there they can feel free to work through their problems without worrying about court. DH has also said time after time that BM gets really aggressive in co-parenting and he thinks she is trying to make it look like they could never work together to co-parent so a judge will return them back to the old schedule. I think she is ready to try anything ever since the appeal was denied. She offered in co-parenting to buy her way back to the old schedule.

cole2144 · September 2013

DH sent both the therapist and BM the recommended emails so we will see how this goes. I am sure BM will be mad because I doubt she thought the therapist would tell us about her asking for the notes.

Ilumine · September 2013

Have you talked to your lawyer yet?

Honestly, you need to discuss these things with your legal representation before you contact her. You KNOW she is doing whatever she can to use whatever she can get against you. Going off on your own, without legal counsel could totally backfire on you.

HELL, at the very least, you could have used her attempts at getting the notes but now you have tipped your hand.

I know that this costs money, I do, but I highly suggest that you keep that retainer going for at least a year.

cole2144 · September 2013

Ilumine said:

Have you talked to your lawyer yet?

Honestly, you need to discuss these things with your legal representation before you contact her. You KNOW she is doing whatever she can to use whatever she can get against you. Going off on your own, without legal counsel could totally backfire on you.

HELL, at the very least, you could have used her attempts at getting the notes but now you have tipped your hand.

I know that this costs money, I do, but I highly suggest that you keep that retainer going for at least a year.

No we have not talked to the lawyer yet and maybe we should have. The therapist sent her email to them both so BM already knew that the therapist told us about her asking for info.

twister22 · September 2013

cole2144 said:

DH is going to look into the classes. He will not waive confidentiality because it was made clear from the beginning that this was supposed to be about SD and her well being, not about trying to get leverage for court. Both BM and DH need a protected space where there they can feel free to work through their problems without worrying about court. DH has also said time after time that BM gets really aggressive in co-parenting and he thinks she is trying to make it look like they could never work together to co-parent so a judge will return them back to the old schedule. I think she is ready to try anything ever since the appeal was denied. She offered in co-parenting to buy her way back to the old schedule.

I think it is going to be a LONG while before that woman will put her daughter's needs before her own. Honestly, you & DH should just continue to do the best that you can't, and just know that BM will continue to do everything in her power to have the 50/50 reversed.

Does BM even have a reason why she thinks DH shouldn't get SD 50% of the time? Or is it just because she is so selfish and doesn't want to "share" SD?

cole2144 · September 2013

twister22 said:

cole2144 said:

DH is going to look into the classes. He will not waive confidentiality because it was made clear from the beginning that this was supposed to be about SD and her well being, not about trying to get leverage for court. Both BM and DH need a protected space where there they can feel free to work through their problems without worrying about court. DH has also said time after time that BM gets really aggressive in co-parenting and he thinks she is trying to make it look like they could never work together to co-parent so a judge will return them back to the old schedule. I think she is ready to try anything ever since the appeal was denied. She offered in co-parenting to buy her way back to the old schedule.

I think it is going to be a LONG while before that woman will put her daughter's needs before her own. Honestly, you & DH should just continue to do the best that you can't, and just know that BM will continue to do everything in her power to have the 50/50 reversed.

Does BM even have a reason why she thinks DH shouldn't get SD 50% of the time? Or is it just because she is so selfish and doesn't want to "share" SD?

You are right, we can`t change her so all we can do is our best with what we got. I really and truly think BM looks at SD as a possession and she has told DH in the past that he is lucky she allowed him any time at all with her.

Lavender P · September 2013

cole2144 said:

You are right, we can`t I really and truly think BM looks at SD as a possession and she has told DH in the past that he is lucky she allowed him any time at all with her.

My SS's BM has said the same thing and has even acknowledged that SS is the one thing she has that DH doesn't. It is like she doesn't want to share a toy rather than a child.

Sorry that you are still fighting a battle that should've been over in December. I agree with the others in getting an email from the therapist, signing up for additional classes and doing whatever you can to co-parent. There is obviously a reason BM wants the confidentiality waived so desperately and it can't be anything beneficial for your DH. I wouldn't agree to it either. Good luck!

cole2144 · September 2013

UPDATE:
So BM never responded to the email that DH sent her. We had SD for the weekend til Monday morning and she was given an assignment to make a collage or drawing of her family and it is due Thursday. DH copied the directions and sent a copy for BM in an envelope in SD`s school bag yesterday since she will have her Monday and Tuesday. He does this with every paper sent to our home on our days, we never receive anything from BM. He also wrote a note asking if she would like for to do one for SD`s entire family or one for each house. BM emailed last night flipping shit, claiming DH hid the assignment from her all weekend and this is proof the schedule does not work yada yada. Also she demanded phone calls every day at 5 so she can question SD about her homework. Please note SD is in kindergarten.

DH responds but also addresses the last email regarding therapy. BM responds cursing and calling names, saying that it is the therapist fault for stopping therapy and she had nothing to do with it. She says she will only see someone court ordered from now on. So I guess DH will take classes by himself and she can do whatever she wants. BM tried to claim in her email that she is worried about their disagreements turning violent in therapy which I find amusing since she is the one unable to control her temper and cursing at DH in front of the counselor. BM also told DH if he wants to know why she does not answer his emails, he can ask her fiance.

Hopeforthebest · September 2013

cole2144 said:

UPDATE:
So BM never responded to the email that DH sent her. We had SD for the weekend til Monday morning and she was given an assignment to make a collage or drawing of her family and it is due Thursday. DH copied the directions and sent a copy for BM in an envelope in SD`s school bag yesterday since she will have her Monday and Tuesday. He does this with every paper sent to our home on our days, we never receive anything from BM. He also wrote a note asking if she would like for to do one for SD`s entire family or one for each house. BM emailed last night flipping shit, claiming DH hid the assignment from her all weekend and this is proof the schedule does not work yada yada. Also she demanded phone calls every day at 5 so she can question SD about her homework. Please note SD is in kindergarten.

DH responds but also addresses the last email regarding therapy. BM responds cursing and calling names, saying that it is the therapist fault for stopping therapy and she had nothing to do with it. She says she will only see someone court ordered from now on. So I guess DH will take classes by himself and she can do whatever she wants. BM tried to claim in her email that she is worried about their disagreements turning violent in therapy which I find amusing since she is the one unable to control her temper and cursing at DH in front of the counselor. BM also told DH if he wants to know why she does not answer his emails, he can ask her fiance.

What a pitiful, pitiful woman. I think I officially feel sorry for her. She needs mental health help. Until she is right, no amount of co parenting classes is going to fix her degree of crazy.

twister22 · September 2013

cole2144 said:

twister22 said:

cole2144 said:

DH is going to look into the classes. He will not waive confidentiality because it was made clear from the beginning that this was supposed to be about SD and her well being, not about trying to get leverage for court. Both BM and DH need a protected space where there they can feel free to work through their problems without worrying about court. DH has also said time after time that BM gets really aggressive in co-parenting and he thinks she is trying to make it look like they could never work together to co-parent so a judge will return them back to the old schedule. I think she is ready to try anything ever since the appeal was denied. She offered in co-parenting to buy her way back to the old schedule.

I think it is going to be a LONG while before that woman will put her daughter's needs before her own. Honestly, you & DH should just continue to do the best that you can't, and just know that BM will continue to do everything in her power to have the 50/50 reversed.

Does BM even have a reason why she thinks DH shouldn't get SD 50% of the time? Or is it just because she is so selfish and doesn't want to "share" SD?

You are right, we can`t change her so all we can do is our best with what we got. I really and truly think BM looks at SD as a possession and she has told DH in the past that he is lucky she allowed him any time at all with her.

Sadly, I think you're right. That woman needs psychiatric help. I forsee SD having some of the issues that K has between parent loyalty, with BM manipulating SD and trying to treat her like a puppet. It's just so sick.

twister22 · September 2013

cole2144 said:

UPDATE:
So BM never responded to the email that DH sent her. We had SD for the weekend til Monday morning and she was given an assignment to make a collage or drawing of her family and it is due Thursday. DH copied the directions and sent a copy for BM in an envelope in SD`s school bag yesterday since she will have her Monday and Tuesday. He does this with every paper sent to our home on our days, we never receive anything from BM. He also wrote a note asking if she would like for to do one for SD`s entire family or one for each house. BM emailed last night flipping shit, claiming DH hid the assignment from her all weekend and this is proof the schedule does not work yada yada. Also she demanded phone calls every day at 5 so she can question SD about her homework. Please note SD is in kindergarten.

DH responds but also addresses the last email regarding therapy. BM responds cursing and calling names, saying that it is the therapist fault for stopping therapy and she had nothing to do with it. She says she will only see someone court ordered from now on. So I guess DH will take classes by himself and she can do whatever she wants. BM tried to claim in her email that she is worried about their disagreements turning violent in therapy which I find amusing since she is the one unable to control her temper and cursing at DH in front of the counselor. BM also told DH if he wants to know why she does not answer his emails, he can ask her fiance.

Talk about DH taking the high road. Good for him! Can you guys ask for copies of everything else from the teacher? You guys do the 2, 2, 3 schedule, right? Just ask that the teacher put everything from Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday in a separate folder and then send that home with SD on Mondays?

Does the CO specify 5 as the time? If not, I just call at whatever time it makes it hardest for BM to antagonize SD - i.e. right before bed so what's fresh on SD's mind is dinner and playing with her brothers and dad and you.

Again, good for DH! SD is very lucky to have such a caring and active father, and I don't understand why BM can't see that. And you know BM will just do absolutely nothing. Because goodness forbid she hears something true that she doesn't like.

cole2144 · September 2013

DH has contacted both the principal and the teacher to get information. The principal mails us the the schools monthly newsletter which is how we found out that a packet of important info and forms was mailed to BM`s even though we never heard about it from her. The principal is now mailing it to our house too. The teacher said she will send copies here. No matter what we will continue to copy info for BM, both SD`s parents should know what is happening at school. I am pretty sure the court order does not say anything about phone calls. DH told her he had no problem with her calling SD but he will not allow SD to be a go between for information. Also we will not interrupt family time if we are busy so SD can take a call. SD can call BM back at better time. We have always let SD call her mother whenever she asks, and BM has always been welcome to call DH or myself to talk to SD. (We do not have a house phone)

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