Bullshit Threshold After Loss

PinkCamino · September 2013

Hi ladies!

I know I haven't been around much lately!! I'm sorry for that. But, I'm back at school and work which is keeping me super busy.

Anyway, last night I went to a IRL loss support group. It turned out that I was the only one who showed up so I was alone with the group leader who is some sort of certified grief & loss counselor.

So after telling her my story we got to talking about how the losses have changed me and my life and the first thing I said was that my bullshit threshold is essentially zero. Before my losses, I was way more complacent, I would go so far as to say I'd often let people walk all over me and rarely set boundaries and such. Now, I have zero tolerance for these things. I'm the first person to call people out when things make me uncomfortable and I'm not shy to voice my opinions or needs in any given situation.

What I found interesting (not sure I agree though) is that she feels that this shift in my personality is actually a manifestation of my anger at the world. In her opinion, my anger consumes me to a point that I might be incapable of showing sympathy for others which in turn makes me less flexible and more demanding.

Food for thought right? How do you feel about this?

Drgn30 · September 2013

Sucks that you were the only one to show up - but kudos for going! I was describing this on the miscarriage board the other day. My therapist gave me a pretty good analogy for my anger at the world. She compared me to someone who has a really really bad sunburn. Every little thing that touches my skin (no matter how insignificant) hurts. It hurts a lot more than normal. And my response is exaggerated too - "STOP! that hurts!! get away!" It's the same for all my daily interactions right now. Hearing people coo over my pregnant coworker's belly is extremely sad for me right now because it is a reminder that I will not be growing a belly like I thought I was - my response is to get mad and push those feelings away. My therapist helped me realize that what I thought was anger is really sadness/disappointment.

So my opinion is that the anger is part of a defense mechanism to protect against the pain of our losses.

PinkCamino · September 2013

Drgn30 said:

Sucks that you were the only one to show up - but kudos for going! I was describing this on the miscarriage board the other day. My therapist gave me a pretty good analogy for my anger at the world. She compared me to someone who has a really really bad sunburn. Every little thing that touches my skin (no matter how insignificant) hurts. It hurts a lot more than normal. And my response is exaggerated too - "STOP! that hurts!! get away!" It's the same for all my daily interactions right now. Hearing people coo over my pregnant coworker's belly is extremely sad for me right now because it is a reminder that I will not be growing a belly like I thought I was - my response is to get mad and push those feelings away. My therapist helped me realize that what I thought was anger is really sadness/disappointment.

So my opinion is that the anger is part of a defense mechanism to protect against the pain of our losses.

My lack of sympathy or patients actually extends to all facets of my life and isn't isolated exclusively to baby related situations.

I seem to have re-prioritized my life and things that may have been important before loss have lost priority in the grand scheme of things.

For example and I'm using something totally insignificant and non-baby related but I tend to step out of relationships that are taxing on me. I have specific friends who are by nature the complainer types (job, life etc etc) and I simply cannot be bothered anymore. I do not have the energy or drive to even want to deal with things that used to be part of my day to day life ya know? If a friend complains about her job now, my answer is well find another one - I don't have any sympathy for these types of things.

LizBlue · September 2013

I can relate to this. I have a friend who I've been exerting a lot energy trying to maintain our friendship, on and off, for over a year. All of a sudden it has become clear - why bother? What's the point?

I have little gray area these days and little patience for people and the energy they are looking to get from me. In some ways, I don't know that this is a bad thing. If it means establishing healthy boundaries in a way that I wasn't able to before, then I think this is a positive development. But I suspect (for me), I'm also becoming a little less patient and empathetic. I am less flexible these days. But I think I need to be as I rebuild my inner strength.

MsAmandaPants · September 2013

Pink Camino said:

Hi ladies!

I know I haven't been around much lately!! I'm sorry for that. But, I'm back at school and work which is keeping me super busy.

Anyway, last night I went to a IRL loss support group. It turned out that I was the only one who showed up so I was alone with the group leader who is some sort of certified grief & loss counselor.

So after telling her my story we got to talking about how the losses have changed me and my life and the first thing I said was that my bullshit threshold is essentially zero. Before my losses, I was way more complacent, I would go so far as to say I'd often let people walk all over me and rarely set boundaries and such. Now, I have zero tolerance for these things. I'm the first person to call people out when things make me uncomfortable and I'm not shy to voice my opinions or needs in any given situation.

What I found interesting (not sure I agree though) is that she feels that this shift in my personality is actually a manifestation of my anger at the world. In her opinion, my anger consumes me to a point that I might be incapable of showing sympathy for others which in turn makes me less flexible and more demanding.

Food for thought right? How do you feel about this?

Um, yeah, food for thought. But, seriously? She had one conversation with you and is drawing these firm conclusions about a shift in your personality and your inability to be sympathetic? I call bullshit on that. You are one of the most supportive people on this board. Honestly, it sounds like she beat you up a little bit and was over eager in her conclusions. But, maybe that is just one bitter, angry, demanding, inflexible infertile girl to another. xoxo

Drgn30 · September 2013

I see what you're saying and I can relate. Sounds like your experiences have changed your perception of things and shifted your priorities. Mine sure has. In just the two weeks since my loss, I find that I no longer care about pleasing my boss like I used to or putting up with coworkers' bullshit. It's just not important anymore. Then again, I'm probably experiencing some depression.

KMW08 · September 2013

I feel I had a lot of anger after my second loss.

This time around I'm not really sure how I feel/cope. I'm definitely more ballsy and have started standing up for myself in regards to loss. I'm much more inclined to put somebody in their place when it comes to loss than I've ever been in the past.

I don't think it rolls into other portions of my life, I'm still a to-myself type and don't like confrontation.

As for sympathy, I think that ship sailed a long long time ago due to my work environment. I'm not very sympathetic in general as it's a very very fine line in medicine if its going to make the patient pissed off for sympathizing or not.. same with empathy. kwim?

halfcaffeinated · September 2013

Even though I don't cry over my loss every day, my patience level is at an all-time low. All I want to do when I'm at work is go home, and once I'm home all I want to do is read or go to bed. I'm very into my Christian faith and I find my focus on that is totally missing; I just don't want to think about a God that would let this happen to me. Perhaps I'm dealing with a bit of depression as you guys were suggesting. It's crazy how much things that don't seem directly connected to my miscarriage are in fact a direct result.

jbasore1123 · September 2013

Pink Camino said:

Drgn30 said:

Sucks that you were the only one to show up - but kudos for going! I was describing this on the miscarriage board the other day. My therapist gave me a pretty good analogy for my anger at the world. She compared me to someone who has a really really bad sunburn. Every
little thing that touches my skin (no matter how insignificant) hurts.
It hurts a lot more than normal. And my response is exaggerated too -
"STOP! that hurts!! get away!" It's the same for all my daily
interactions right now. Hearing people coo over my pregnant coworker's
belly is extremely sad for me right now because it is a reminder that I
will not be growing a belly like I thought I was - my response is to get
mad and push those feelings away. My therapist helped me realize that
what I thought was anger is really sadness/disappointment.

So my opinion is that the anger is part of a defense mechanism to protect against the pain of our losses.

My lack of sympathy or patients actually extends to all facets of my life and isn't isolated exclusively to baby related situations.

I seem to have re-prioritized my life and things that may have been important before loss have lost priority in the grand scheme of things.

For example and I'm using something totally insignificant and non-baby related but I tend to step out of relationships that are taxing on me. I have specific friends who are by nature the complainer types (job, life etc etc) and I simply cannot be bothered anymore. I do not have the energy or drive to even want to deal with things that used to be part of my day to day life ya know? If a friend complains about her job now, my answer is well find another one - I don't have any sympathy for these types of things.

I agree with PP about the sunburn analogy, I think it's a great way to describe it. Oir brains react to loss in a protective way, and this may be your brains way of trying to protect you. And I think loss and hardships make us re-evaluate things in our lives, including relationships, and helps us recognize what's important. It's a good thing you're letting go of negative relationships.
As a therapist, I understand what she is saying about your reaction. But I agree, because she doesn't know you it could be complete bullshit or a great guess.

PinkCamino · September 2013

MsAmandaPants said:

Pink Camino said:

Hi ladies!

I know I haven't been around much lately!! I'm sorry for that. But, I'm back at school and work which is keeping me super busy.

Anyway, last night I went to a IRL loss support group. It turned out that I was the only one who showed up so I was alone with the group leader who is some sort of certified grief & loss counselor.

So after telling her my story we got to talking about how the losses have changed me and my life and the first thing I said was that my bullshit threshold is essentially zero. Before my losses, I was way more complacent, I would go so far as to say I'd often let people walk all over me and rarely set boundaries and such. Now, I have zero tolerance for these things. I'm the first person to call people out when things make me uncomfortable and I'm not shy to voice my opinions or needs in any given situation.

What I found interesting (not sure I agree though) is that she feels that this shift in my personality is actually a manifestation of my anger at the world. In her opinion, my anger consumes me to a point that I might be incapable of showing sympathy for others which in turn makes me less flexible and more demanding.

Food for thought right? How do you feel about this?

Um, yeah, food for thought. But, seriously? She had one conversation with you and is drawing these firm conclusions about a shift in your personality and your inability to be sympathetic? I call bullshit on that. You are one of the most supportive people on this board. Honestly, it sounds like she beat you up a little bit and was over eager in her conclusions. But, maybe that is just one bitter, angry, demanding, inflexible infertile girl to another. xoxo

Oh I agree.

But, I do also think that those of us who've had to unfortunately walk into the loss world are sort of forced to re-prioritize things. Issues and life events that were previously super important simply aren't anymore. Losing a baby is the worst possible experience so consequently I would be more worried about the woman who says she was completely unaffected by the loss rather than the one who's changed as a result of it.

kateitho · September 2013

I have no patience for just about anyone playing the self-pity card. Especially my mother, who by nature takes everyone's problems as a personal slight to her. Her newest self-victimization is that she was probably having early losses in the two years it took her to get pregnant the first time... It makes me want to stab her! She has never been through a diagnosed miscarriage and had EIGHT HEALTHY PREGNANCIES! She has no idea what this is like, and it's led to several circumstances that I've taken to the ugly point.

Then there's one of my friends who has self-diagnosed herself with a myriad of health issues, then complains about them compulsively, while her doctor continues to tell her that the only thing wrong with her is severe obesity. Her feet hurt, so she must have neuropathy. Her back hurts so she must have fibromyalgia. She's a SAHM who sits on the couch and let's her LO's act like demons! She actually refers to her DSs as "the terrorists". Try going for a walk or playing with your kids at the park. Eat healthier and see if you don't feel better. I would feel awful too if I lived off of a diet of fast food and Disney movies....

END RANT

LaRomana09 · September 2013

Pink Camino said:

*snip*

What I found interesting (not sure I agree though) is that she feels that this shift in my personality is actually a manifestation of my anger at the world. In her opinion, my anger consumes me to a point that I might be incapable of showing sympathy for others which in turn makes me less flexible and more demanding.

Food for thought right? How do you feel about this?

Hey Pink C. While I definitely think that you are capable of showing sympathy for others, I think there could be some truth in what she is saying, and I feel like the same could be said about me and most other members of this board. We are all probably somewhat less sympathetic to certain people and situations. I feel like that is normal, though. When something terrible happens to you, it causes a shift in perspective, and you have less tolerance for petty bullshit. I like to think that my anger will fade, but it's still pretty strong right now.

MsAmandaPants · September 2013

MsAmandaPants said:

Um, yeah, food for thought. But, seriously? She had one conversation with you and is drawing these firm conclusions about a shift in your personality and your inability to be sympathetic? I call bullshit on that. You are one of the most supportive people on this board. Honestly, it sounds like she beat you up a little bit and was over eager in her conclusions. But, maybe that is just one bitter, angry, demanding, inflexible infertile girl to another. xoxo

Oh I agree.

But, I do also think that those of us who've had to unfortunately walk into the loss world are sort of forced to re-prioritize things. Issues and life events that were previously super important simply aren't anymore. Losing a baby is the worst possible experience so consequently I would be more worried about the woman who says she was completely unaffected by the loss rather than the one who's changed as a result of it.

Oh, well, no question! I've gone through several of these kind of watershed moments, the first when my dad passed away from a brain tumor when I was 19 (I was his primary caregiver through the whole ordeal), then with both losses. It completely alters the way you see the world and quickly makes you re-prioritize and re-assess and re-commit to your values and what is important.

I just wanted to make sure that she wasn't being too hard on my girl or make you feel bad about yourself for it!

PinkCamino · September 2013

MsAmandaPants said:

MsAmandaPants said:

Um, yeah, food for thought. But, seriously? She had one conversation with you and is drawing these firm conclusions about a shift in your personality and your inability to be sympathetic? I call bullshit on that. You are one of the most supportive people on this board. Honestly, it sounds like she beat you up a little bit and was over eager in her conclusions. But, maybe that is just one bitter, angry, demanding, inflexible infertile girl to another. xoxo

Oh I agree.

But, I do also think that those of us who've had to unfortunately walk into the loss world are sort of forced to re-prioritize things. Issues and life events that were previously super important simply aren't anymore. Losing a baby is the worst possible experience so consequently I would be more worried about the woman who says she was completely unaffected by the loss rather than the one who's changed as a result of it.

Oh, well, no question! I've gone through several of these kind of watershed moments, the first when my dad passed away from a brain tumor when I was 19 (I was his primary caregiver through the whole ordeal), then with both losses. It completely alters the way you see the world and quickly makes you re-prioritize and re-assess and re-commit to your values and what is important.

I just wanted to make sure that she wasn't being too hard on my girl or make you feel bad about yourself for it!

haha not at all.

I was pretty straightforward with her (new personality right?) and made it clear that although I've changed my perspective about many things as a result of the loss I'm not necessarily complaining about who I am at this very moment.

Drgn30 · September 2013

I guess the part I disagree with is the "anger at the world" statement. For me, I'm not angry with the world, I'm grieving a loss. The effect of that grief is loss of patience and irritability, which appears to be anger directed at the world. I'd go out on a limb and say that @pink camino is not angry with the world, either.

PinkCamino · September 2013

Drgn30 said:

I guess the part I disagree with is the "anger at the world" statement. For me, I'm not angry with the world, I'm grieving a loss. The effect of that grief is loss of patience and irritability, which appears to be anger directed at the world. I'd go out on a limb and say that @pink camino is not angry with the world, either.

Agreed.

My lack of patients doesn't come from a place of anger. It's the result of the fact that my life, baby making issues and uterus have proved to be significantly more important than gossip, drama and bullshit.

kateitho · September 2013

Pink Camino said:

Drgn30 said:

I guess the part I disagree with is the "anger at the world" statement. For me, I'm not angry with the world, I'm grieving a loss. The effect of that grief is loss of patience and irritability, which appears to be anger directed at the world. I'd go out on a limb and say that @pink camino is not angry with the world, either.

Agreed.

My lack of patients doesn't come from a place of anger. It's the result of the fact that my life, baby making issues and uterus have proved to be significantly more important than gossip, drama and bullshit.

I agree with everything you've said. It's not that I'm mad, I just don't effing care anymore...

Drgn30 · September 2013

Qfrump said:

I think her conclusion is a bit extreme. Everyone always talks about how your priorities change once you get pregnant. That doesn't go away because of a loss. If anything it is intensified. With all the doctors visits you really have to become your own advocate.

YES

BellanieNJ · September 2013

I can definitely agree with the idea that you re-prioritize your life after loss or at least have your perspective change on different parts of your life. My BS sensors are definitely sharper. I tolerate much less from people. I don't feel like the things that I bitched about before are even close to important anymore.

In terms of her statement that you might be incapable of showing sympathy for others, I say...

buggirl72 · September 2013

snegde said:

The therapist in me wonders, do you feel angry at the world? :-? I am using the term "you" to represent all of us. Is it anger or a change of perspective? You have known true heartache in a way you had not experienced before. You have overcome a traumatic event. Your personality is indeed changed. A lack of patience for bullshit might just come from realizing what truly matters and a low tolerance for other people's problems and their whining about them which seem insignificant in light of what you have been through. Interesting to think about. I feel like my brain is still mulling this over so maybe I'll add more later when I have solidified my thoughts. Also I'll argue that a good therapist can tell a lot from an initial visit. The way or if she should have shared is another question but that's just my 2 cents.

This.

Pink, I get what you are saying. My bullshit meter is at zero and has been for a long time. I went back to school two weeks after losing Zachary and there was a major shift in my priorities. Finals became very non-stressful once you realize that not getting the highest score in the class (or even an A) is not the end of the world.

An example of what I think shows a shift in my thinking was how I handled losing a spot in the mediation clinic at my school. I was very excited about doing this and would have received a certification in this which would have been beneficial for something to do while waiting for my Bar results. I missed the last hour of training because of going into labor. Missing that hour was an automatic withdrawal from the class. My classmates were pissed and wanted the instructor to let me make up that hour (which was watching presentation by the students - who were all willing to come back and redo their presentations). The instructor said no. I really did not care. In all honesty, our mediation clinic dealt with barking dog complaints because that is what the city sent to us. In the grand scheme of things, you want to guess how much I cared about someone bitching about their neighbors barking dog? Not enough to fight with the school to make an exception in their policy for me.

This attitude also followed me into the Bar exam. While some of my friends were stressed out bundles of nerves the morning of the first day, I reminded myself that there are a lot of worse things than not passing the Bar. I would say that none of this was related to anger at the world and everything to do with looking at what is important and what my priorities are.

PinkCamino · September 2013

buggirl72 said:

snegde said:

The therapist in me wonders, do you feel angry at the world? :-? I am using the term "you" to represent all of us. Is it anger or a change of perspective? You have known true heartache in a way you had not experienced before. You have overcome a traumatic event. Your personality is indeed changed. A lack of patience for bullshit might just come from realizing what truly matters and a low tolerance for other people's problems and their whining about them which seem insignificant in light of what you have been through. Interesting to think about. I feel like my brain is still mulling this over so maybe I'll add more later when I have solidified my thoughts. Also I'll argue that a good therapist can tell a lot from an initial visit. The way or if she should have shared is another question but that's just my 2 cents.

This.

Pink, I get what you are saying. My bullshit meter is at zero and has been for a long time. I went back to school two weeks after losing Zachary and there was a major shift in my priorities. Finals became very non-stressful once you realize that not getting the highest score in the class (or even an A) is not the end of the world.

An example of what I think shows a shift in my thinking was how I handled losing a spot in the mediation clinic at my school. I was very excited about doing this and would have received a certification in this which would have been beneficial for something to do while waiting for my Bar results. I missed the last hour of training because of going into labor. Missing that hour was an automatic withdrawal from the class. My classmates were pissed and wanted the instructor to let me make up that hour (which was watching presentation by the students - who were all willing to come back and redo their presentations). The instructor said no. I really did not care. In all honesty, our mediation clinic dealt with barking dog complaints because that is what the city sent to us. In the grand scheme of things, you want to guess how much I cared about someone bitching about their neighbors barking dog? Not enough to fight with the school to make an exception in their policy for me.

This attitude also followed me into the Bar exam. While some of my friends were stressed out bundles of nerves the morning of the first day, I reminded myself that there are a lot of worse things than not passing the Bar. I would say that none of this was related to anger at the world and everything to do with looking at what is important and what my priorities are.

ALL OF THIS.

This is exactly what I mean.

PinkCamino · September 2013

snegde said:

The therapist in me wonders, do you feel angry at the world? :-? I am using the term "you" to represent all of us. Is it anger or a change of perspective? You have known true heartache in a way you had not experienced before. You have overcome a traumatic event. Your personality is indeed changed. A lack of patience for bullshit might just come from realizing what truly matters and a low tolerance for other people's problems and their whining about them which seem insignificant in light of what you have been through. Interesting to think about. I feel like my brain is still mulling this over so maybe I'll add more later when I have solidified my thoughts. Also I'll argue that a good therapist can tell a lot from an initial visit. The way or if she should have shared is another question but that's just my 2 cents.

This is exactly how I feel.
^:)^

Rachaeleigh · September 2013

snegde said:
The therapist in me wonders, do you feel angry at the world? :-?

I am using the term "you" to represent all of us.
Is it anger or a change of perspective? You have known true heartache in a way you had not experienced before. You have overcome a traumatic event. Your personality is indeed changed. A lack of patience for bullshit might just come from realizing what truly matters and a low tolerance for other people's problems and their whining about them which seem insignificant in light of what you have been through.

Interesting to think about. I feel like my brain is still mulling this over so maybe I'll add more later when I have solidified my thoughts. Also I'll argue that a good therapist can tell a lot from an initial visit. The way or if she should have shared is another question but that's just my 2 cents.

In addition to this, I guess I could understand what she was saying , as it relates to me. I tend to experience what I like to call "compassion fatigue. " Because of
My experiences and heart ache, I tend to downplay the importance or legitimacy of other people's experiences. Experiences are subjective and just bc someone's experience seems fucking stupid to me, doesn't mean itisn't legitimate for them. I have no idea of any of that applies to you. I'm just talking about my experience

PinkCamino · September 2013

rachaelhudson said:

The therapist in me wonders, do you feel angry at the world? :-? I am using the term "you" to represent all of us. Is it anger or a change of perspective? You have known true heartache in a way you had not experienced before. You have overcome a traumatic event. Your personality is indeed changed. A lack of patience for bullshit might just come from realizing what truly matters and a low tolerance for other people's problems and their whining about them which seem insignificant in light of what you have been through. Interesting to think about. I feel like my brain is still mulling this over so maybe I'll add more later when I have solidified my thoughts. Also I'll argue that a good therapist can tell a lot from an initial visit. The way or if she should have shared is another question but that's just my 2 cents.
In addition to this, I guess I could understand what she was saying , as it relates to me. I tend to experience what I like to call "compassion fatigue. " Because of My experiences and heart ache, I tend to downplay the importance or legitimacy of other people's experiences. Experiences are subjective and just bc someone's experience seems fucking stupid to me, doesn't mean itisn't legitimate for them. I have no idea of any of that applies to you. I'm just talking about my experience

I totally get what you're saying and the compassion fatigue plays a role in this too. Obviously I haven't become a cold hearted bitch but at the same time when friends or family complain about things that are a)easily fixable and b) really not a big deal I'm not afraid to gently tell them that.

MommaAshley12 · September 2013

BellanieNJ said:
I can definitely agree with the idea that you re-prioritize your life after loss or at least have your perspective change on different parts of your life. My BS sensors are definitely sharper. I tolerate much less from people. I don't feel like the things that I bitched about before are even close to important anymore.
In terms of her statement that you might be incapable of showing sympathy for others, I say...

I agree with all of this! You are not incapable of sympathy. That's just a stupid statement.

MommaAshley12 · September 2013

halfcaffeinated said:
Even though I don't cry over my loss every day, my patience level is at an all-time low. All I want to do when I'm at work is go home, and once I'm home all I want to do is read or go to bed. I'm very into my Christian faith and I find my focus on that is totally missing; I just don't want to think about a God that would let this happen to me. Perhaps I'm dealing with a bit of depression as you guys were suggesting. It's crazy how much things that don't seem directly connected to my miscarriage are in fact a direct result.

You should join the bible study check in. It runs on Monday, Wed, and Fri. Some of us are struggling with faith in regards to our losses. It has helped to have a group of ladies to talk to about this.

E&B0811 · September 2013

Pink Camino said:

snegde said:

The therapist in me wonders, do you feel angry at the world? :-?

I am using the term "you" to represent all of us.
Is it anger or a change of perspective? You have known true heartache in a way you had not experienced before. You have overcome a traumatic event. Your personality is indeed changed. A lack of patience for bullshit might just come from realizing what truly matters and a low tolerance for other people's problems and their whining about them which seem insignificant in light of what you have been through.

Interesting to think about. I feel like my brain is still mulling this over so maybe I'll add more later when I have solidified my thoughts. Also I'll argue that a good therapist can tell a lot from an initial visit. The way or if she should have shared is another question but that's just my 2 cents.

This is exactly how I feel.
^:)^

Another ditto here. Well said snegde.

BethKate2 · September 2013

snegde said:
The therapist in me wonders, do you feel angry at the world? :-? I am using the term "you" to represent all of us. Is it anger or a change of perspective? You have known true heartache in a way you had not experienced before. You have overcome a traumatic event. Your personality is indeed changed. A lack of patience for bullshit might just come from realizing what truly matters and a low tolerance for other people's problems and their whining about them which seem insignificant in light of what you have been through. Interesting to think about. I feel like my brain is still mulling this over so maybe I'll add more later when I have solidified my thoughts. Also I'll argue that a good therapist can tell a lot from an initial visit. The way or if she should have shared is another question but that's just my 2 cents.

Yep, this is what I think. At least, I feel like that's the case for me. I lost my mom when I was 14, so for most of my life, my bullshit tolerance has been really low. I have zero tolerance for people making a huge deal about tiny little problems. Since my loss, my lack of patience seems to be specifically with other people who are TTC. Like, don't complain to me about not being pregnant after two months when I've been at this for over a year and have had a loss.

Anyway, my point is that I don't think it has anything to do with anger at the world. I think you just look at things differently after you've been through something traumatic. It helps you to put things into perspective.

jenkellen · September 2013

BethKate2 said:

snegde said:
The therapist in me wonders, do you feel angry at the world? :-? I am using the term "you" to represent all of us. Is it anger or a change of perspective? You have known true heartache in a way you had not experienced before. You have overcome a traumatic event. Your personality is indeed changed. A lack of patience for bullshit might just come from realizing what truly matters and a low tolerance for other people's problems and their whining about them which seem insignificant in light of what you have been through. Interesting to think about. I feel like my brain is still mulling this over so maybe I'll add more later when I have solidified my thoughts. Also I'll argue that a good therapist can tell a lot from an initial visit. The way or if she should have shared is another question but that's just my 2 cents.

Yep, this is what I think. At least, I feel like that's the case for me. I lost my mom when I was 14, so for most of my life, my bullshit tolerance has been really low. I have zero tolerance for people making a huge deal about tiny little problems. Since my loss, my lack of patience seems to be specifically with other people who are TTC. Like, don't complain to me about not being pregnant after two months when I've been at this for over a year and have had a loss.
Anyway, my point is that I don't think it has anything to do with anger at the world. I think you just look at things differently after you've been through something traumatic. It helps you to put things into perspective.

I agree. I went through a loss of a parent 5 years ago and that dramatically changed my outlook on life. It also prepared me for this loss. Yes, you notice that others around you complain about stuff that is ridiculous. But have you noticed, you don't complain about things you used to as well? You probably also have stopped complaining about items you have control over.

In my case the loss of a parent is a bit different as you think more about how short life can be and how you want to make the most of the life you have now. In that way, I've tried to apply to my TTC journey. Yes, I had a loss, but I can't let that take over my life because who knows how long I'll be here. I try to remind myself there are other ways I can contribute and other ways that I enjoying my life.

After this, I began to distance myself from any unnecessary drama from family or friends. It's been really helpful for me. I also think that is pretty typical for those in these situations.

I'm sorry no one showed up to your support group. I hope you still found it helpful ((hugs))

MrsWallick · September 2013

MsAmandaPants said:

Pink Camino said:

Hi ladies!

I know I haven't been around much lately!! I'm sorry for that. But, I'm back at school and work which is keeping me super busy.

Anyway, last night I went to a IRL loss support group. It turned out that I was the only one who showed up so I was alone with the group leader who is some sort of certified grief & loss counselor.

So after telling her my story we got to talking about how the losses have changed me and my life and the first thing I said was that my bullshit threshold is essentially zero. Before my losses, I was way more complacent, I would go so far as to say I'd often let people walk all over me and rarely set boundaries and such. Now, I have zero tolerance for these things. I'm the first person to call people out when things make me uncomfortable and I'm not shy to voice my opinions or needs in any given situation.

What I found interesting (not sure I agree though) is that she feels that this shift in my personality is actually a manifestation of my anger at the world. In her opinion, my anger consumes me to a point that I might be incapable of showing sympathy for others which in turn makes me less flexible and more demanding.

Food for thought right? How do you feel about this?

Um, yeah, food for thought. But, seriously? She had one conversation with you and is drawing these firm conclusions about a shift in your personality and your inability to be sympathetic? I call bullshit on that. You are one of the most supportive people on this board. Honestly, it sounds like she beat you up a little bit and was over eager in her conclusions. But, maybe that is just one bitter, angry, demanding, inflexible infertile girl to another. xoxo

I have to agree with this. Now I know every therapist is different, but personally and professionally, I would never say this to a client on a first meeting/ session. I may think it (not about you, just in general) but I wouldn't say it. Yes, a good therapist may be able to pull a lot from the initial session but, no, just no. I agree that my bullshit tolerance has dramatically decreased since my loss! And some days, yea I am angry at the world. But I think it's also a realization of what is important in life and that petty things are... Well, petty. The last stage of grief is "acceptance". However, nobody says that once you have accepted, congratulations, you get an award and you move on. No, we are constantly reminded of the loss with anniversaries and just every day life and by definition of acceptance as a part of grief, that is 100% normal. We're allowed to be sad, were allowed to be angry, were allowed to cry and yell, were allowed to be impatient!!

One thing I did with every single client of mine was tell them "you're allowed to feel that way". Now, your reaction to your feeling is different, but you're allowed to feel it. Most of my clients told me that was one thing that really stuck out to them. Nobody had ever told them that they were allowed to be sad/ angry/ pissed off/ fill in the blank and being given the okay was empowering and made them want to change their reactions to their feelings.

Sorry, I went a little bit on a therapist rant there but I was a little bothered by this. Therapists should make you feel empowered and confident, not tell you that you are incapable of feeling sympathy.

ashellypnut · September 2013

I'm jumping in here! I didn't even realize that this has happened to me either, until Pink Camino brought it up but I'm glad she did.

I kind of just had an *Ah-Ha!" moment here. I'm definitely less tolerant of the idle, mindless bullshit that many of my acquaintances bitch about. I am especially annoyed by people who are pg and complain about it every time I have to speak to them!

I've also noticed that I react differently to hearing BFP news here than IRL. Here I experience absolute joy and happiness to the point of tears when I read that one of us has moved over to PgAL. And, if one of those ladies has to rejoin us, I'm so crushed and again in tears. However, IRL I do not experience absolute joy and happiness. It's more like jealousy and bitterness. Recently I was chart stalking one of our ladies on FF and noticed her BFP. Even my DH was excited too! We were high-fiving each other-seriously. Then I discovered that she's going through a CP and we are both shocked and saddened by this news. I didn't ever realize how my experience here affects him too. Well, I do talk about you ladies all the time

My heart breaks when I here news like this.

I love you all and hope we can all fulfill our dreams of becoming mothers, no mater which path we choose. xoxo

BluEyedGirl26 · September 2013

ashellypnut said:
I'm jumping in here! I didn't even realize that this has happened to me either, until Pink Camino brought it up but I'm glad she did.

I kind of just had an *Ah-Ha!" moment here. I'm definitely less tolerant of the idle, mindless bullshit that many of my acquaintances bitch about. I am especially annoyed by people who are pg and complain about it every time I have to speak to them!

I've also noticed that I react differently to hearing BFP news here than IRL. Here I experience absolute joy and happiness to the point of tears when I read that one of us has moved over to PgAL. And, if one of those ladies has to rejoin us, I'm so crushed and again in tears. However, IRL I do not experience absolute joy and happiness. It's more like jealousy and bitterness. Recently I was chart stalking one of our ladies on FF and noticed her BFP. Even my DH was excited too! We were high-fiving each other-seriously. Then I discovered that she's going through a CP and we are both shocked and saddened by this news. I didn't ever realize how my experience here affects him too. Well, I do talk about you ladies all the time My heart breaks when I here news like this.

I love you all and hope we can all fulfill our dreams of becoming mothers, no mater which path we choose. xoxo

I can completely relate to this. I've realized that I've changed since my loss but I didn't realize exactly how much until reading this post.

Also, I completely "get" the BFP thing. When I see the ladies here moving over to PgAL, my heart is so happy for them and when they have to come back here, my heart breaks for them. IRL, I'm completely bitter and jealous.
:-/

Bullshit Threshold After Loss

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