And this is why you provide children consequences - UPDATE

Ilumine · September 2013

I just picked SS up from work (10 days until he FINALLY gets his license). He is in histrionics.

SS: "Someone STOLE my wallet!!!!".

Me: "One of the employees took it out of your locker?"

SS: "No, it fell out of my pocket when I was getting lunch. It only took me two minutes to realize it was gone. Someone picked it up and stole it! It had my Social Security Card in it. My credit is ruined!"

Me: (count to 10, blank face, control of my voice) "Well, your dad can give you direction on the SS Card, but you can at least call USAA and put a hold on your debit card."

SS: "That's ok, it was in my back pocket."

Me: (counting to 20 and not another word until we got home.

Now, you might ask why I am so aghast at this, given we all make mistakes and we all loose things. Well, on Thursday I get a panicked call from SS because he forgot his Zip Drive at home and needs it for his AP Lit class...please, please, please bring it. Rinse and repeat the same exact conversation the very next morning.

Again, you might say, "well, that is usual for a teenager..." Except that when I picked him up from work last night, I get the tail of woe about the fact that someone "stole" said zip drive at school and now he has to totally redo his report. Oh and his teacher is a b!tch for not giving him a special dispensation to him because he left the zip drive for someone else to STEAL.

NONE of these incidents were his fault.

And you want to know why he is like this? He never felt the consequences to his actions. When he broke 2 DSs and lost one/broke one Ipod Touch, his parents immediately bought him a new one. And don't get me started on how many times I was told to bring him something he forgot. Or the number of times he was not only NOT punished for continually forgetting his keys, but NOT punished for his mouth when would go after ME for not being home to let him in.

Had his father NOT played Disney Dad or Guilt Ridden Dad, we may not be here today, with a kid who cannot keep track of his crap or take responsibility for his actions. ANd he would also (prayerfully) not be the mouthy brat who still throws temper tantrums (though they are way fewer than in the past because DH is FINALLY punishing him for those) at his father and I when he does't get his way.

And DH wonders why I am not going along with his belief that SS should be allowed to stay with us for his first year of college.

+just+j+ · September 2013

I can't wait until your SS gets a dose of the real world and has to cope with all of this on his own. 1 more year Illumine. One more year.....

KendraL86 · September 2013

It is my belief that if kids are old enough and responsible enough drive, they should be old enough and responsible enough to remember their homework, take care of their things, and be responsible for their actions

I'm sorry you have to bear the brunt of his irresponsibility and attitude. Sounds like he needs a good dose of reality! Keep your head up!

xmaryrickx · September 2013

As this is his senior year does he have any plans for what comes next?

Littlejen22 · September 2013

Man it makes me wish you w ere a working Mom all this time because then you could have just said you could not leave work! Ugh, sorry it is the same crap.

Ilumine · September 2013

xmaryrickx said:

As this is his senior year does he have any plans for what comes next?

DH honestly believes that if SS goes off to the dorms, he will fail out in the first semester. He wants SS to live with us for two semesters to get him solid.

This is NOT what was promised to me after the Sheriff/CPS visits. I am standing my ground that SS needs to be out come August 15th, 2014.

Ilumine · September 2013

+just+j+ said:

I can't wait until your SS gets a dose of the real world and has to cope with all of this on his own. 1 more year Illumine. One more year.....

I really was praying that DH would find a stupid contractor job (after he retired from the USAF) so we could easily cut ties with FL and move as soon as SS graduated.

Unfortunately (well not for DH), DH has found a wonderful job. He is challenged by it. He makes a decent salary. He is being groomed for bigger/better things. And we need to be here for about 5 years.

I LOATH Florida. I LOATH our house.

+just+j+ · September 2013

It's funny. A lot of people LOVE Florida, California, Texas....I really don't care for any of those states. I'll visit...but I'll take quiet, under appreciated Iowa any day.

Hang in there Illumine. It will be a long year, but imagine how quiet and peaceful your home will be when he's out.

Sigir · September 2013

I can testify that you are so right. I was pretty spoiled as a kid and had no consequences, broken things were nbd, etc. when I went to college it was a huge rude awakening. Professors were shocked when I asked for extensions on thngs bc I was not prepared, etc and of course they did not grant them. Thankfully it only took me less than a semester to wise up and change my ways... Hopefully it will be that way for your Ss but he seems a little more far gone... It might take some tougher consequences for him.

That experience that I had makes it easier for me to deal w my dc when I set consequences for them, bc I know that it's truly in their best interest. Unless you've been through it first hand I can imagine how tempting it'd be to be the Disney dad!!!

Good luck to you all.

ambrvan · September 2013

piffle42 said:
Playing devil's advocate, Mlmy sister was always extremely forgetful but my parents made her live with the consequences. It took her foreeeeever to learn.

I know your situation is different and I really hope your SS will be out by next August.

But would she gave learned any faster otherwise? Some kids really do just never learn. But at some point after trying to do things right them, you just have to cut the cord and let them sink or swim.

Ilumine · September 2013

DH and I are heading BACK to therapy tomorrow night.

So SS lost said wallet. SS has given me a hard time trying to get his Military ID replaced. It wasn't until DH told him NO Military ID, no DL, that the kid pulled his head out of his butt and we got the Military ID yesterday.

FF to last night right before bed, DH reminds SS to leave his Military ID and SS Card on the counter so DH can bring it with him, when DH picks up SS at school to go get the DL.

SS has a freaking hissy fit. "How dare you treat me like a child. It wasnt like I was irresponsible, someone STOLE my wallet"

DH: "Your wallet would not have been stolen if you hadn't dropped it. Just like the zipdrive that you forgot 2 days in a row, would not have been stolen if you hadn't left in the computer. YOU have not SHOWN me that you can be an adult."

SS: "Im done.", and off to his room.

DH wakes up to a post it note on the door:

"Don't bother picking me up today, because if I'm not responsible with my stuff, then how could you give e your truck...I'm coming home on the bus."

My response: "DO NOT GET HIM TODAY. Whatever else this is, he is correct. He is NOT responsible enough for a car."

DH: "Im done being his taxi, I WILL pick him up today and if he gives me lip, I will just tell him to get into the car."

Me: "First of all, YOU are not his taxi, I am. YOU maybe have to drive him 2xs a week, so get over yourself. Second, you bitch and moan about how he is still this lazy, irriesponsible, entitled brat but you <insert swear word> enable him to be so.

You are wrong to give into his little ploy. Let him go without his DL for a month. Wait until his 18th birthday. Hell, don't give him the freaking SUV either. Maybe then he will learn something."

DH: I thought you are done driving him places. You are just punishing him because you don't like him."

Me: "If that was true, then I would be pushing you to get him his DL so I DONT have to deal with him anymore. I am asking you to GIVE ME more work and angst because I really believe he needs this."

DH: "Well, your not his mother."

Me: "If you do this, expect to go to a therapy session on Thursday. And expect to be sleeping on the sofa until then. Because you are an <insert another explicative>."

He slams out the door.

ambrvan · September 2013

Wow.

Lavender P · September 2013

Your DH is completely out of line. I want to smack him for you.

Ilumine · September 2013

I got an apology before he made it 2 miles down the road.

He is so frustrated with SS, but primarily with HIMSELF because he KNOWS KNOWS KNOWS that he enabled the monster that is SS.

ANd get lashes out whenever I point that out because, like human nature is, it is easier to defelct that accept.

We are still going to therapy on Thursday and he may still be sleeping on the sofa, but I am not ready to boot his ass. However, I AM going to be very clear that SS is not allowed to live with us during his freshman year unless there are some major concessions thrown my way.

But I do want to say, that if we HAD parented SS the way I wanted (which is the old-fashioned hardass way), i am 90% sure that we would not be having these issues 5 years later.

xmaryrickx · September 2013

The you are not his mother line would absolutely be the nail in the coffin after all you guys have been through. How much longer are you willing to live like this? Your husband clearly has zero respect or even appreciation for you. None. Zilch. Is that what you want to model for your daughter? Do you really think anything is going to change? SS isn't going anywhere and your H has made that clear with saying he isn't ready to go away to college. He has no intentions of cutting the apron strings in nine months, or possibly ever.

I hate this for you. It's sad, and miserable and you deserve better.

Littlejen22 · September 2013

OMFG there is so much I want to scream about. I cannot believe he actually said you are not his Mother. But I cannot believe he crisply thought an acceptable punishment or consequence for SS's irresponsibility and tantrum were to drag him out of the house kicking and screaming to get his license and give him a car!!!

Can I honestly ask what you want to happen in therapy that will change things or make you believe that this time it will be different? And I am not saying to leave because I realize a complaint every few months does not lead to leaving but I do agree with Mary that you know he is not kicking his son out after graduation so what do you really want to happen?

Ilumine · September 2013

Littlejen22 said:

OMFG there is so much I want to scream about. I cannot believe he actually said you are not his Mother. But I cannot believe he crisply thought an acceptable punishment or consequence for SS's irresponsibility and tantrum were to drag him out of the house kicking and screaming to get his license and give him a car!!! Can I honestly ask what you want to happen in therapy that will change things or make you believe that this time it will be different? And I am not saying to leave because I realize a complaint every few months does not lead to leaving but I do agree with Mary that you know he is not kicking his son out after graduation so what do you really want to happen?

This is all about his own freaking guilts. He knows that this is HIS doing. That he cannot blame BM for SS's behavior anymore. He has been a direct parental influence longer than BM now. See, they divorced when SS was 5 and we got SS when he was 12. SS is now 30 days shy of 18.

Sure BM had some pretty strong white canvass to work with, but why wasn't those 5 years before the divorce enough of a foundation? And we all know that the parenting after BM was lax.

So when he is called out on it (like I did), he reacts. He knows it. I know it. And I may have purposefully pointed this out. Not that I am excusing his comment. That does not excuse his reaction on the "not the mother" comment.

And THAT is what we are going to work on in therapy. I know that I do not fight fair. When I am pissed at him, I normally clam up for days on end. The silent treatment. And with everything OTHER THAN SS, he holds it all in until he blows.

SO...we are going to work on our arguing skills. We are also going to readdress SS's leaving once college starts. SS has already indicated that he feels that once he turns 18, he can and will do whatever he wants. DH has told him that if he gets cocky he looses the car.

You can see where this is going to go. I cannot deal with SS's tude when he is in college and thinks he is even MORE adult.

As I have said before, other than SS, my DH and I have a rock solid relaitonship (except for the offering DD a guinea pig - but I threw a fork at him and he fixed it). So I cannot see throwing away my marriage yet.

I just need a solid plan for how we are going to handle SS from here on out.

EarthandFire · September 2013

Arguing in a relationship is really hard especially on heated subjects. I learned two things in therapy with my ex that I have put to use with my BH:
1) You have no control over someone else's actions, only your own.
2) State how your feeling but don't point fingers. (I don't feel my voice is being heard. I feel like my efforts are being forgotten)

The third things I learned on my own is never say something in anger you may regret. It's really hard not to do that. It seems to me that's what DH did and I think it's a really good sign he apologized for his unexcused comment so quickly. You both want what's best for SS and I'm sure DH is really scared at this point about how well he's going to do in the real world. Fear is one of the worst emotions to manage.

xmaryrickx · September 2013

I appreciate your honesty and tenacity. But you two have been trying to get on the same page since for as long as I can remember being on this board.
Have the plans worked in the past? Over and over he shows you who he really is. And over and over it's let's go back to therapy and try again. And while I give you props for not just throwing in the towel at what point is enough enough?
From what you have said, unless some miracle happens, it doesn't sound like SS has any motivation to make a future for himself. There can be three million consequences, but sometimes they just don't matter. Your h is never going to let him be homeless, so that door will always be open.

Littlejen22 · September 2013

I guess to Mary's point, where do you expect him to go while in college? Is he doing a 4 year? And if you expect him to move out do you think your DH will expect to financially support him? You know my story so I am totally fine with setting reasonable expectations for an adult to be allowed to live at home and if they won't abide then they are on their own. I was just lucky enough that my DH followed through.

GHBEA · September 2013

This sounds just like my house hold. My DH will get mad at things my girls do, but his son does the same thing and nothing is sad. Yet I am expected to punish my girls ( I would any way).

My DH just does not want to up set his son. SS lives with us full time now so I don't understand the need to spoil him because you only see him EOWE.

Then there is SS dog who can pee all over the carpet, and my dog pee's and is put out side or the crate for hours. BTW SS dog is a Chihuahua and for some reason can not go out side to pee or poop she has a pee pad (that is rarely changed) better believe we hear it when the kitty litter doesn't get changed.

SS plays video games ALL the time no restrictions and DH has to ask multiple times for him to do his chores. No punishments for lying about home work or other school work.

SS and I get along great but DH has let him be and it shows.

SORRY I stole your thread but I know what it feels like.

Ilumine · September 2013

Littlejen22 said:

I guess to Mary's point, where do you expect him to go while in college? Is he doing a 4 year? And if you expect him to move out do you think your DH will expect to financially support him? You know my story so I am totally fine with setting reasonable expectations for an adult to be allowed to live at home and if they won't abide then they are on their own. I was just lucky enough that my DH followed through.

Let me just say that the "where does SS go during College" has become a major point for DH and I. DH never went off to college, he got his two bachelors and Graduate degree while married and he commuted. And he has some odd idea that College Dorm life is exactly the same as Military Dorm life (one that he went to when the drinking ages were under 21).

DH sees dorms as a two room Sodom and that once SS goes, he does not have to leave until the next school year (even though SD lived in the Frosh dorms, had to leave for T-day, winter and spring recesses and was out for the summer).

I have only a slight problem with SS coming back to the house during recesses. My problem is not so much about HIM, but the fact that we still have a 3 bedroom with no place for guests or DH's office. And that I will not be able to have guests come for the holidays because SS will be there.

Nor will I really be able to get DH's office out of the formal dinning room because of this. It is one thing if DH shares the spare bedroom that gets used maybe 2 weeks split up throughout 52. But it is totally different when SS is home for 9 weeks out of the 52. DH is not only NOT going to want to give up his space for my friends/family, but is not going to be able to work with SS home.

IF DH could tell me that we would only be here for 1 more school year after this, I could maybe handle it. But DH keeps waffling about what he wants, because he thinks I will be upset staying here.

And yes, I loath this area and my house to the depths of my soul...but I also recognize that I have not worked in 6 years. We go where DH finds a job he can be happy in. He is happy in his job right now.

So if we can find some solution, then I will be more willing on having SS come home during breaks that first year and that summer. HOWEVER, after that, if we stay here, unless we have another BEDROOM, not just office space, I will have to put my foot down to SS coming home during the summers.

And I KNOW that this is hypocritical because I went home during the summers. But I actually, you know, did full household chores to earn my keep and I was polite, clean, and non-entitled.

I have actually been looking at finding a real job in the locations we have bounced around moving too. I can honestly say that if I had a $35,000+ job set up for after SS graduated from College, DH would probably move. I just do not want to work yet. I really believe that DD needs to have a SAHP and DH is just not it.

He would do the carpooling to dance class, but he would never facilitate playdates or go to the various places that kids hang out, like the park or bouncy houses, etc. DD is CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY social. And DH IS NOT. SHe recharges her batteries by being around people, DH recharges by going on solo harley rides.

If he is so, well not dismissive of ME and MY needs to recharge like that. but cannot understand it, when my recharging doesnt even affect him because he is at work, I really cannot trust that DH would do it for DD. I mean he would, but it would be so grudgingly that DD would notice and feel bad about it.

See.....

Littlejen22 · September 2013

Honestly Illumine I have to say you are wrong in your reasoning. I just cannot

Littlejen22 · September 2013

Oops, I hit post.

I could totally see you setting rules that if he does not follow then he cannot live with you. But I just do not think it is ok to say that SS cannot live at home during breaks because you want to have guests. His son comes before guests. As for the office I do not know your house so I do not know what works but if you cannot deal then maybe have him move his computer to the living room when SS is there or it is part of the agreement that if SS stays at home he has to share his room and DH works there even if he is sleeping. And if SS freaks out then he needs to find somewhere else.

I just think that kicking him out is not reasonable unless it is directly related to him not being respectful and following your rules.

Wahoo · September 2013

Littlejen22 said:

I could totally see you setting rules that if he does not follow then he cannot live with you. But I just do not think it is ok to say that SS cannot live at home during breaks because you want to have guests. His son comes before guests.

Ok, I can't quote, but I agree with Littlejen. SS is not a guest. He is family.

Ilumine · September 2013

Littlejen22 said:

Oops, I hit post. I could totally see you setting rules that if he does not follow then he cannot live with you. But I just do not think it is ok to say that SS cannot live at home during breaks because you want to have guests. His son comes before guests. As for the office I do not know your house so I do not know what works but if you cannot deal then maybe have him move his computer to the living room when SS is there or it is part of the agreement that if SS stays at home he has to share his room and DH works there even if he is sleeping. And if SS freaks out then he needs to find somewhere else. I just think that kicking him out is not reasonable unless it is directly related to him not being respectful and following your rules.

Two things:

1) It is not so much not having guests while SS is there, it is the fact that DH WILL happily arrange our holidays around SS not wanting to go to his mothers. Which means that I will never see my family for the holidays until we either:

a) win the lottery (to pay for airfare for all of us),

b) SS actually agrees to drive the two days one way, which he refused to do last year and has continually said will never do

c) SS decides he isnt going to come to visit us.

d) SS finally graduates college or we move

And I will not apologize for saying that this is a non-negotiable for me. Before we got married, I was clear to my DH that i would get to see my family every 3rd year, whether we saw his family or not unless we were stationed overseas. We are no longer stationed overseas. We even discussed this with the minister who married us.

2) SS will be 18 next month and will be graduating from High School in 8 months.

Do you consider yourself a full-fledge member of your parent's house? Do you get to call your parents and tell them that you are coming home for the holiday and make them plan around you? I

I get that SS is not a full-fledge adult freshman year of college, but given the fact that DH has mentioned keeping SS home frosh year to ensure that SS passes two semesters, I can see DH keeping this up indefinitely.

And here I am, not being master and commander of MY HOUSE, not being able to have MY mother and father visit so we can keep an open room for the grown adult who doesn't live with us anymore.

So while I am not (nor did I say that I would not) not allowing SS to come home for breaks, I am saying that for DH and I to survive after SS graduates high school, there has to be some rules - either we buy a new home or expand our house if we are going to stay here or DH realizes that he is going to have to fork over some heavy cash to allow us to go north to visit.

xmaryrickx · September 2013

Why does SS get to dictate whether or not you get to visit your family? He doesn't want to go, so no one goes? Really??? How about you either drive to my parents or you go to your mothers.

I'm not master and commander of my house. I don't have final say in anything. We are partners. Sometimes things go my way. Sometimes they don't.

I hope you figure this out. And quick, for your own sanity. Maybe moving is the best option. You said Your husband would consider moving out of that area if he could find a job. Or if you could. If you could find a job where you want to live, in the end wouldn't that be best for everyone? Monkey included? I am sure she would get plenty of socialization between daycare/preschool/play dates-I mean working moms have play dates too.

Littlejen22 · September 2013

The way I am reading this is that you are taking your frustrations from what your DH won't do on SS. There are a ton of reasons you have that are legitimate for saying that your SS should not live with you but I really do not get saying that if your SS stays then you cannot see your parents. That is ridiculous and something that needs to be addresses with your DH. If your parents cannot stay at a hotel and you want them to stay with you then your SS as the youngest in the house is expected to give up his bed for the older visitors. Or you guys go to your parents. I totally think this argument needs to be had but can totally be had without discussing whether or not your SS stays. You really should not need to negotiate your parents coming.

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