Daycare concerns- paranoid or trust my mommy gut? (long sorry)

vmjones05 · September 2013

Hi ladies! I joined the working mom club last week after 6 months of childcare leave. We chose our daycare last October because I knew infant daycare spots are hard to come by and we wanted to secure a spot for our LO and be thorough. Our daycare came highly recommended and it's only word of mouth- no advertising, no sign on the house stating that it's a daycare, only through personal referrals can you find out about it- which we love! We met with the director/owner after hours (only time she'll meet with parents) and thought the place was small (one room in a basement) but that the number of kids was small due to the size and regulations, so we liked it. We knew that infants-5 years are kept in the same room but we liked the idea that LO would socialize with others and be exposed to their curriculum of stories, letter of the day, etc. We usually drop off at the door and pick up at the door (because of the small size) but I went inside this week and was shocked by how many kids there were. There were plenty of adults so I believe the ratios were still legal, however babies were sleeping in car seats, swings, strollers, etc. and I had a hard time imagining how/where LO's pack n play would be set up for nap time and am afraid he's napping in his car seat (which won't be with him much longer since we're switching to a convertible). I asked for his schedule and they wrote it in the notebook I provided but it's very general and I just don't know what his day looks like. I don't think he has a "teacher" who's assigned to him and the other babies and I thought it was going to be more structured and smaller than it seems. I haven't addressed my concerns with the director and DH and I have started exploring other options but I'm torn. Am I paranoid and over reacting? We LOVE the director and girls who work there! Or is my mommy gut right and we should look elsewhere? I should also mention the price is perfect where he is and our budget won't allow us to pay much more so I'm concerned about what options would be realistic.

LauraChicago · September 2013

I don't get worked up about a lot of daycare stuff but I'd be out of there. Babies should have a consistent safe place to sleep everyday. Most states don't even allow daycares to let babies sleep in bouncers etc. I understand a baby could have fallen asleep in the stroller on a walk but babies shouldn't be sleeping all about.

Our Montessori preschool puts the kids in and takes them out if the car for us everyday so the not going in wouldn't bother me. But they truly believe its best to help ease the transition between parent and school. Anytime that I go in to pick her up early I've gone in and have seen exactly what I would expect to see.

northtamarack · September 2013

That is tough, but mommy gut accounts for a lot in my book.

My biggest concern would be sleeping the carseats. In my county, it is illegal to have them inside and in their carseats. I am not sure if this is a county/state thing?? If it is illegal, then I think you'd have an easy answer to leave.

As far as a small space is concerned, I am ok with a smaller space. Have you ever seen a bunch of kids (no matter the age) in a big space? 10 kids go 10 directions. Ok if it is free play, but when trying to keep kids on task (working on songs, letters of the day, etc) I think a smaller space is ok. In your situation the thing that I would worry about is that is a basement. What if the regular exit is blocked (by fire, intruder, etc) is there another way out? Do they spend lots of time outside?

I would be concerned about the size of the space and the number of adults and kids. Even if the numbers are legal, if there is not enough space to sleep/eat/play then I don't think that it is ok. What happens when your LO is a toddler? I know mine wouldn't sleep if there were other things going on. With the numbers/set up you are describing, I'd find it hard to believe that they would get good quality quiet time.

Bottom line, I'd meet with the director and address your concerns. Then you aren't guessing and have some data to help you make an educated decision.

GL!

groovygrl · September 2013

How many kids are we talking in how big of a space and what are the ages of the kids? All the kids under 1 should have a sleeping space (crib or pack n play etc) that is always assembled in my opinion...if there is not enough room for that alone, I'd be very concerned. I agree that babies fall asleep in a swing/stroller/bouncer sometimes of course but the picture you paint is that they were all sleeping like that- were there any pack n plays or anything set up?
If there are tons of other kids in the same room playing etc I would think it would be tough for the younger ones to sleep (like the 1-3 yr olds in addition to the babies), not to mention potentially kind of unsafe... I also don't get worked up by daycare things but a enough kids to match up with 'plenty of adults' (?3-4?) in one room in a basement sounds less than ideal to me for a baby or young toddler.
GL figuring it out.

vmjones05 · September 2013

Thanks ladies! They do go outside everyday and they don't take walks with the kids- they have an outdoor play space only, so it's not like the kids fell asleep on a walk. They had to have been put in the stroller to sleep because there was no room elsewhere. That's my main concern.

brandyleighxx · September 2013

At our daycare, they need a note from the pedi that it's safe to sleep upright in a bouncy seat or swing (reflux babies) so the fact that there's a bunch of babies sleeping in car seats worry me. I also think having babies in the same room as older kids all day is too much stimulation. At 6 months old, DS was still taking multiple naps which would be difficult for him to do if there were a lot of other kids around. I like that at our daycare, there's a room for each age group but they can still socialize at times.

ASmallWonder · September 2013

DS1 went to home daycares (and fairly small spaced ones) until he was about 15 months old. However, there was a dedicated place for him to sleep and I knew how many kids would be there. For me, just because they're maintaining ratios doesn't mean it's a safe and healthy environment to jam a ton of kids in there.

ljanette85 · September 2013

Is she licensed? That's seems sketchy, I would consider leaving

shannm · September 2013

So it is all one room? Yeah, not my preference. I would look elsewhere.

Pips09 · September 2013

What you describe would make me really uncomfortable. I think I would go with my mommy gut on this one.

Maybride2 · September 2013

I'd RUN in the opposite direction and not look back. In most states it is against regulations to allow an infant to sleep in anything but an approved crib; what you describe sounds like unorganized chaos and accidents waiting to happen. And the fact that drop offs and pick ups are done at the front door means that it's probably always that bad and she's trying to hide it. Honestly, this sounds absolutely horrible, no matter how nice the girls seem.

LoCarb · September 2013

The sleeping situation bothers me and I would look elsewhere

laurakaz13 · September 2013

I'm assuming this daycare is not licensed. I would never go with an unlicensed daycare. Never! Pick a center that follows very strict rules, has a great educational environment and licensed teachers/care providers.

Just the sleeping arrangement would make me sick to my stomach. Not a chance would I be okay with it.

emberlee3 · September 2013

Childcare regulations in my state specify that infants must sleep in a crib.

Is this place licensed? I can't imagine it is licensed if infants are sleeping in carseats. I would be outta there now. In the future, you should look for a daycare place that is licensed, and where you can see your child's classroom, meet his teacher, meet his classmates, etc, before signing up.

Maybride2 · September 2013

I think it's obvious why this place doesn't advertise. It's not because its so great.......it's to stay off the radar of any state inspectors who would shut them down for being grossly out of compliance and operating illegally.

FemShep · September 2013

I would pull my LO out immediately. I am completely sympathetic to the challenge of finding daycare, but a LO must have a dedicated place to sleep, the center must be licensed, and I must be able to drop in at any time, unannounced. I know this puts you in a bind-can you call family, or check local churches for ideas?

RibbitGrl930 · September 2013

I second the other ladies. Occasionally, babies at our daycare do sleep on swings or bouncers, but that's only if they happen to fall asleep while in them and the teachers are tending to other more serious matters- blowout, feeding, etc. It's not used to make them go to sleep as a primary measure. It would be a huge red flag to me if the daycare had kids sleeping only in swings and bouncers because there was no room for any other apparatus, like a crib. I would also be concerned with the space issue. I'm in NC, and regulations here require there be 25 square feet of indoor space per child. I honestly would start looking at other options.

TCMom78 · September 2013

Find a new daycare. This sounds very sketchy!

jennyelf · September 2013

The military daycare my child is in only has 4 cribs for 8 kids, so fewer cribs than kids doesn't disturb me (sheets are changed and crib is sanitized between each kid, infants sleep on demand and it's rare that more than half are asleep at the same time. Also if there are more than 4 infants sleeping, older ones are given a mat to sleep on and some might sleep in a care taker's arms or swing for up to 10 minutes, after which they are transferred to a crib or mat.)

The kids sleeping in carseats and strollers would bother me. Also the fact that you weren't allowed to visit during operating hours. I visited a number of daycares and I was always allowed to visit during operating hours so I could view the daycare in action.

Like other posters, I question if this place is licensed and regulated. If it isn't, I'd pull my kid out. Unlicensed and unregulated daycares are the ones that show up in the news.

B27 · September 2013

I am considering leavi my school- not home daycare- before my child's first day simply bc one of the teachers rubbed me the wrong way. You should totally go to a different daycare. A family member of mine ran a daycare, and was shut down for violating laws. While e daycare was going, she had lots of references from parents saying how great she was, in reality, she cussed at the kids, locked them in the laundry room for time out, yelled constantly, may have even hit them.....it can be bad at home day area, which is why I will always use a school, at least there are lots of people in and out and they generally have cameras. This is your CHILD who cares if people day your paranoid, or you don't want to hurt someone's feelings ect..at the end of the day there are tons of daycares why stay with one you don't feel comfortable with?

ASmallWonder · September 2013

B27 said:

I am considering leavi my school- not home daycare- before my child's first day simply bc one of the teachers rubbed me the wrong way. You should totally go to a different daycare. A family member of mine ran a daycare, and was shut down for violating laws. While e daycare was going, she had lots of references from parents saying how great she was, in reality, she cussed at the kids, locked them in the laundry room for time out, yelled constantly, may have even hit them.....it can be bad at home day area, which is why I will always use a school, at least there are lots of people in and out and they generally have cameras. This is your CHILD who cares if people day your paranoid, or you don't want to hurt someone's feelings ect..at the end of the day there are tons of daycares why stay with one you don't feel comfortable with?

There is just so much wrong with this post. The bottom line is that yes, as a parent you should always feel comfortable with the place you choose. But to say that home day cares are bad while singing the praises of centers and saying they all have cameras is inaccurate. I've used three (licensed) home day cares and have ADORED every single one. They are friends now and they cared for my son in a way that I never worried. I won't say all homes are like that because that would be irresponsible of me and false. From personal experience I can also tell you that a center is not above being a shitty provider.

ccam · September 2013

The sleeping situation would have me concerned, especially after you said that it seems like they are putting them in strollers to sleep and that they're not just falling asleep on a walk. I would speak to the director about your concerns and start looking for other options at the same time.

financialdiva · September 2013

bearsbearsbears said:
Honestly, I would have never put my child into a daycare that didn't allow me to tour the daycare operating hours. That would have been a gigantic red flag to me.

The fact that there is no separate area for infants is really concerning--it's not like a small in-home center where there are only 5 kids and it won't get too loud. I just could not imagine the poor infants trying to sleep there with the chaos all around. The sleeping situation is very concerning. I would be running away and reporting the DCP to the authorities.

All of this.

Trust your gut. Find a new provider ASAP.

aeh72 · September 2013

There is no way I would keep my son at a daycare that did not have a designated crib or pack n play for him for naps. If I thought he was napping in his carseat or in a stroller, I would lose my sh*t! (I'm not even sure that's legal.) So, no, I don't think you are being paranoid. I would start looking for other places.

82Sonia · September 2013

I am with all the PPs who were concerned about kids sleeping in carseats. I'd be looking elsewhere.

cecilyandgautam · September 2013

Maybride2 said:

I think it's obvious why this place doesn't advertise. It's not because its so great.......it's to stay off the radar of any state inspectors who would shut them down for being grossly out of compliance and operating illegally.

This is my thought too. Have you looked up the owner with the licensing authority? I would check there first. Most states, counties, and cities that license in-home providers have a public website where you can look up providers. If the address and owner are not in the system - they are not licensed and that is why they are not advertising. I would first call your state, county, and city to confirm that she's not licensed and if she's not, then I'd call CPS and report it.

In the meantime, I realize you may not be able to find different care for your child tomorrow, but at pick up today, do not accept your child at the door, walk right on in! If she tries to stop you from entering, say you want to see where you kid is sleeping. If she refuses, then it may be an urgent situation and maybe you should stay home for the rest of the week. If what you see isn't awful, try to bring in a pack n play or something for your kid to sleep in for the rest of the week until you can find a licensed provider.

cedenton · September 2013

My gut is twisting at what you described so I imagine you know exactly what you need to do. Sleeping in strollers and car seats is not cool. I don't mind the swings and bouncy seats so much. My son had a dedicated crib in the infant room, but refused to sleep in it and would only sleep in a bouncy (that's when he would sleep at all--now he's in the toddler 1 room an takes a 3 hour nap on a cot).
The fact that she doesn't let parents drop in during operating hours is a red flag and I would have never chosen a place with that policy in the first place.

RibbitGrl930 · September 2013

Yikes, I missed the part where you mentioned she did not allow parents to observe the facility. When we were contacted by DS's daycare about a spot opening up, I tried to schedule a tour and the director actually steered me toward dropping in whenever I felt like it, citing the Open Door policy. That gave me a good feeling because it showed me they had nothing to hide. She could have taken advantage of my ignorance, scheduled a visit, and made sure things were ship-shape for the time I'd be there, but she encouraged me to just drop in whenever.

hst · September 2013

This place sounds horrible! No way should babies be sleeping in cars seats and strollers! I wouldn't even bother speaking to the director, I would just leave. Would any excuse really alleviate your concerns? Good luck.