Cry It Out

karirlaw · August 2013

Ok. We know there are a lot of strong opinions on this. Here goes. Fourth baby, first son. Never been a CIO mom. I just can't handle it. Well today I was like, let's see what this is about. Changed his diaper in the crib (he is always the happiest right after a diaper change), turned on his white noise, and walked away. Few mins later, cry cry cry. Went and looked, he didn't really seem genuinely upset. Sat outside the room, crying for what seemed like 15 mins with varying levels of intensity. Finally went in, and he was crying with his eyes gently closed and not even red in the face. Sleep crying perhaps?

What do you guys do in this department?

CarlaAndJames · August 2013

Fussing is one thing, but if my babies are genuinely crying I always pick them up. They're learning the concept of trust. If no one comes when they cry, they learn that no one comes when they cry

karirlaw · August 2013

somerandomchick said:
Anyone on this BMB is too young to CIO. Infants don't have 'wants' you can ignore, they only have NEEDS. Being held is a genuine need.

My kid has trouble falling asleep without me holding him. He can smell if its not me, so I am trying different methods to help him get to sleep when I go to work. Right now I am sleeping with his lovie. In this instance, I went in and put a passy in his mouth and that was all it took for him to doze off.

MrsMcC.10409 · August 2013

My pedi says not to let them CIO until 4m gestational age. For me, I let my DS fuss a little, then go and see what the deal is. If he's worked himself into the corner of his crib, or needs his paci, I give it to him, pat his back, and leave again. I also know that if I let him work himself into a tizzy, it will be harder to get him back to sleep. So, if he fusses for more than a minute or two, or moves into crying stage, I go in, rock him for a minute, and put him back.

I don't think you're doing anything terrible by doing a short experiment, but I would wait just a little while longer before attempting it again.

MagickalNarwhal · August 2013

You can't teach your child to fall asleep independently at this age. Yes there are times when a baby will cry and no it won't kill them - I get that, I am really struggling to meet the needs of this baby while I have a needy toddler. But I don't think it's ok to intentionally let your NEWBORN cry themselves to sleep.

karirlaw · August 2013

I think what I am trying to get at is that there are going to be times when I cannot "hold him to sleep" (ESP when I go back to work). So I am exploring what ways work for you all to get your LOs to doze off independently.

MagickalNarwhal · August 2013

Also, if your goal is to help your child sleep independently don't just randomly walk away and let them cry. Get a book and read about it because even the hard core CIO-advocate authors don't suggest just randomly walking away to let them cry. There's a lot more to it.

MagickalNarwhal · August 2013

Who will be watching him while you work?

karirlaw · August 2013

MagickalNarwhal said:
Also, if your goal is to help your child sleep independently don't just randomly walk away and let them cry. Get a book and read about it because even the hard core CIO-advocate authors don't suggest just randomly walking away to let them cry. There's a lot more to it.

Thanks! Yes, I am pretty much a hold them to sleep person myself. My mom and MIL watch the babies. And mom is a holder, MIL tends to be more of a CIO which I have never cared for. I am just trying to make my LO's transition easier

heatherbrownm · August 2013

karirlaw said:

somerandomchick said:
Anyone on this BMB is too young to CIO. Infants don't have 'wants' you can ignore, they only have NEEDS. Being held is a genuine need.
My kid has trouble falling asleep without me holding him. He can smell if its not me, so I am trying different methods to help him get to sleep when I go to work. Right now I am sleeping with his lovie. In this instance, I went in and put a passy in his mouth and that was all it took for him to doze off.

Maybe he will sleep being held by someone else when you are not around at all? I do agree with PPs though, he is too young to CIO.

Was he drowsy when you put him in the crib? Or wide awake? It might help if he is almost asleep before you put him down.

karirlaw · August 2013

hplusb said:

karirlaw said:

somerandomchick said:
Anyone on this BMB is too young to CIO. Infants don't have 'wants' you can ignore, they only have NEEDS. Being held is a genuine need.
My kid has trouble falling asleep without me holding him. He can smell if its not me, so I am trying different methods to help him get to sleep when I go to work. Right now I am sleeping with his lovie. In this instance, I went in and put a passy in his mouth and that was all it took for him to doze off.

Maybe he will sleep being held by someone else when you are not around at all? I do agree with PPs though, he is too young to CIO.

Was he drowsy when you put him in the crib? Or wide awake? It might help if he is almost asleep before you put him down.

He was drowsy when I put him down and changed him. Asleep by the time the new diaper was on. What happens is I walk away with him seemingly asleep, and a few mins later he somehow senses I am not around and starts crabbing. Stops as soon as I pick him up.

opheliainwaders · August 2013

karirlaw said:

hplusb said:

karirlaw said:

somerandomchick said:
Anyone on this BMB is too young to CIO. Infants don't have 'wants' you can ignore, they only have NEEDS. Being held is a genuine need.
My kid has trouble falling asleep without me holding him. He can smell if its not me, so I am trying different methods to help him get to sleep when I go to work. Right now I am sleeping with his lovie. In this instance, I went in and put a passy in his mouth and that was all it took for him to doze off.

Maybe he will sleep being held by someone else when you are not around at all? I do agree with PPs though, he is too young to CIO.

Was he drowsy when you put him in the crib? Or wide awake? It might help if he is almost asleep before you put him down.
He was drowsy when I put him down and changed him. Asleep by the time the new diaper was on. What happens is I walk away with him seemingly asleep, and a few mins later he somehow senses I am not around and starts crabbing. Stops as soon as I pick him up.

Maybe swaddle him in a blanket that smells like you?

MeenaJo · August 2013

I'm a Ferber fan after using it with DS around 4 months. That said, DD is too young to start any sleep training. Like a PP said, they are learning trust right now. I let her fuss some and half of the time she settles herself down but if she starts to get worked up I pick her up.

MagickalNarwhal · August 2013

Yeah if someone was watching my 6 week old and insisted on CIO for them, they would not be watching my kid. If you have 1:1 care there is no reason your MIL can't be present with your baby for sleep/sleep transitions.

karirlaw · August 2013

Good idea. If I decide to do the CIO method I will take the time to read up on it. I want to approach everything with an abundance of caution. I only want what's best for him. Which is why I was trying to smooth the transition.

Stina2012 · August 2013

Alicia0817 said:
Me? I would have picked him up 10 minutes ago.

Or just held him after the diaper change. And no way would I let a caregiver do CIO either.

PrimRoseMama · August 2013

At this age they physically cannot fall asleep independently. They don't have the ability emotionally or cognitively. That's why it's recommended to wait to CIO (if you are going to do it) until baby understands that you come back (object/person permanence). Right now they can't get this and it's damaging to their trust level with you.

This can lead to attachment disorders etc. in the extreme and even in the minor-- will teach baby that its no use to cry for their needs. No one on this board should be CIO yet.

karirlaw · August 2013

Thanks for all the advice ladies! I obviously need to do some homework if I ever plan on doing CIO. The snuggle method is all I have known with #1, #2 & #3. I can see how painfully uneducated I am on the topic after deciding to try it out cold turkey. Thank goodness for this board!

karirlaw · August 2013

PrimRoseMama said:
will teach baby that its no use to cry for their needs.

This was the saddest sentance I have ever read!

PrimRoseMama · August 2013

karirlaw said:

PrimRoseMama said:
will teach baby that its no use to cry for their needs.
This was the saddest sentance I have ever read!

It is incredibly sad. I've worked with babies that will sit in dirty diapers, hungry or in need of comfort but they are stone silent. They will just sit/lay there looking despondent. These are extreme cases, mind you.

The occasional cry for one or two minutes while you are finishing your shower, peeing or attending to the needs of an older child, NBD. However CIO can backfire big time at this age.

Basically imagine for yourself a hard, ugly, nose-running, screaming panicked cry. Do that for 2 minutes. Yeah, it sucks.

karirlaw · August 2013

PrimRoseMama said:

karirlaw said:

PrimRoseMama said:
will teach baby that its no use to cry for their needs.
This was the saddest sentance I have ever read!
It is incredibly sad. I've worked with babies that will sit in dirty diapers, hungry or in need of comfort but they are stone silent. They will just sit/lay there looking despondent.

I just. Can't. I just can't. ***scurries off to hold baby a little tighter than he'd like***

karirlaw · August 2013

I feel HORRIBLE now

valstulas · August 2013

karirlaw said:
I feel HORRIBLE now

Don't feel horrible. You were doing what you thought was best at the time. One occurrence will not lead to attachment issues for your LO. Now you know better and you won't do it again.

PrimRoseMama · August 2013

karirlaw said:
I feel HORRIBLE now

One time won't scar your kid for life. Don't worry. It's just not reasonable to ask them to soothe themselves independently.

karirlaw · August 2013

Well we obvsly have a full house with four LOs. And there WILL be times when DS will be crying and I can't pick him up at that moment (multitasking). But this was not one of them. Poor guy. I never want any of my kids to feel like they don't get the personal attention they need and deserve. That's just so important. Gah.

You know, some people look at me weird for the co-sleeping, holding to sleep, (heck, just the fact that I have four kids gets looks) but I never imagined I would ever have gone to far in the other direction. The whole reason we had four was because we just love them each so much! And now I'm rambling.

opheliainwaders · August 2013

karirlaw said:

I feel HORRIBLE now

Ah, honey. You're OK, and so is LO. I am strongly against CIO, but even I will concede that one 15-minute crying jag is not going to be the end of the world. Just give him a snuggle, and give both of you a break.

aehamilton13 · August 2013

PrimRoseMama said:
At this age they physically cannot fall asleep independently. They don't have the ability emotionally or cognitively. That's why it's recommended to wait to CIO (if you are going to do it) until baby understands that you come back (object/person permanence). Right now they can't get this and it's damaging to their trust level with you.

This can lead to attachment disorders etc. in the extreme and even in the minor-- will teach baby that its no use to cry for their needs. No one on this board should be CIO yet.

My little guy falls asleep independently all the time... Is that bad? He just does. For example, I set him in his bouncy set about 10 minutes ago while I went to the fridge to get my supper, and I came back, and he's conked out.

PrimRoseMama · August 2013

aehamilton13 said:

PrimRoseMama said:
At this age they physically cannot fall asleep independently. They don't have the ability emotionally or cognitively. That's why it's recommended to wait to CIO (if you are going to do it) until baby understands that you come back (object/person permanence). Right now they can't get this and it's damaging to their trust level with you.

This can lead to attachment disorders etc. in the extreme and even in the minor-- will teach baby that its no use to cry for their needs. No one on this board should be CIO yet.
My little guy falls asleep independently all the time... Is that bad? He just does. For example, I set him in his bouncy set about 10 minutes ago while I went to the fridge to get my supper, and I came back, and he's conked out.

No. However, the one constant about babies is that they change. Enjoy the "self soothe" now!

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