debate over transgender rule in Cali...

thusain7712 · August 2013

there is this huge debate happening on facebook about how Cali is wanting to pass that those who identify as transgender can use the bathroom in which they identify with, not the gender they were born with.

this has got to be the most fascinating debate i have seen in a very long time.

PeachLove25 · August 2013

I mean.. What stops transgenders from entering whichever bathroom they'd like to now? It's not like security stands at bathroom doors and checks your gender. Interesting.

lrj85 · August 2013

I really don't understand why this is even a legal issue to be perfectly honest. At some point I fully expect the Government to pass a law that tells me how many sheets of toilet paper we need to use at a time and a corresponding regulatory committee to go with it. Tax dollars at work and people wonder Cali is broke

RondackHiker · August 2013

I think it's a good ruling. Especially when applied to kids in schools.

I've never understood why you'd be against someone peeing in whatever stall they feel is appropriate.

thusain7712 · August 2013

they are talking about in schools. elem through highschool..sorry i should have clarified that.

so allowing a boy to use the girls locker room as well. the law clearly states they have to be transgender...so many are for it. but for me, i just wonder who is goign to decide who is really transgender and the football jock isnt going into the girls locker room...

it has passed the first two stages...

lrj85 · August 2013

RondackHiker said:

I think it's a good ruling. Especially when applied to kids in schools. I've never understood why you'd be against someone peeing in whatever stall they feel is appropriate.

This is so common sense I just dont understand why in the world we need to pay people to pass laws about it

PhCaulfield · August 2013

It is illegal to use the bathroom for the opposite sex? I had no idea.....I've certainly seen lots of women break the law by using the men's restroom when it has no line.

RondackHiker · August 2013

lrj85 said:
I really don't understand why this is even a legal issue to be perfectly honest. At some point I fully expect the Government to pass a law that tells me how many sheets of toilet paper we need to use at a time and a corresponding regulatory committee to go with it. Tax dollars at work and people wonder Cali is broke

Often it applies to kids in school. A transgender girl will be forced to use the boy's restroom because she was born a boy, even if she dresses and goes as and acts as a girl in all other areas of her life.

thusain7712 · August 2013

i can completely see both side, but i am a sexual abuse survivor and i would have never handled a boy in my locker room or bathroom. clearly, not every one is a SA survivor. this is just my experience.

RondackHiker · August 2013

thusain7712 said:
they are talking about in schools. elem through highschool..sorry i should have clarified that.

so allowing a boy to use the girls locker room as well. the law clearly states they have to be transgender...so many are for it. but for me, i just wonder who is goign to decide who is really transgender and the football jock isnt going into the girls locker room...

it has passed the first two stages...

I'm pretty sure football jocks have other ways to see boobs, and don't need to resort to claiming they're a girl.

RondackHiker · August 2013

thusain7712 said:
i can completely see both side, but i am a sexual abuse survivor and i would have never handled a boy in my locker room or bathroom. clearly, not every one is a SA survivor. this is just my experience.

I'm a SA survivor as well, and don't have a problem. First, because the person has a penis but isn't a boy. Second, one study I read said most transgendered change privately since they're ashamed of their genetalia, which doesn't match how they feel.

thusain7712 · August 2013

oh thanks...i did some googling and just found the article that said it was on his desk.

and yes many others have ways to see the opposite sex. i remember them doing their best to sneak in when i was in school...im sure it happened all the time.

lrj85 · August 2013

Oh I know WHY they are doing it I just don't feel EVERYTHING needs to be legislated. I think that is what is wrong with our country. Also if a little boy who identifies as a girl presumably dresses as a girl and lives as a girl how do we prove she is a he? lift up the skirt for heavens sake this is just silly. Also as for the sexual abuse angle I agree boys who like girls would have to be pretty hard up to start living like a female just to get a good view of one washing their hands (girls use separate stalls for instance) And a girl identifying as a boy would not use a urinal and would use a stall as well I don't see an issue for sexual abuse

thusain7712 · August 2013

I can respect and understand that...however, where my concern is..like you said, who is monitoring it. no i dont think that most boys/girls are going to dress up at all so they can use the other bathroom. if they arent transgender, i seriously dont see the issue. but i do wonder how long its goign to be before someone says "well "he" gets to use the girls bathroom why cant i".

I love that its trying to bring peace and i think its an interesting move...i am curious to see five years for now, how it is impacting the students and facility

lrj85 · August 2013

Single person at a time bathrooms! DONE problem solved! That way you dont have to put a gender on the door just use the gender neutral one

RondackHiker · August 2013

thusain7712 said:
I can respect and understand that...however, where my concern is..like you said, who is monitoring it. no i dont think that most boys/girls are going to dress up at all so they can use the other bathroom. if they arent transgender, i seriously dont see the issue. but i do wonder how long its goign to be before someone says "well "he" gets to use the girls bathroom why cant i".

I love that its trying to bring peace and i think its an interesting move...i am curious to see five years for now, how it is impacting the students and facility

Since transgendered youth (and gay youth) are the most bullied and most isolated and most likely to attempt suicide, I'd do anything to make them feel more accepted.

Also the argument wouldn't be why "he" gets to since the student in question is female.

And finally, I've never understood the sexual attraction argument in this. Bathrooms aren't sexy, and we don't make gay men and women use separate bathrooms or locker rooms.

RondackHiker · August 2013

car seat said:
Protecting minority rights is such a waste of time and tax dollars! Do you know how many bombs you could buy with those tax dollars? Because the land of the free doesn't have enough bombs yet.

Can I kiss you?

JordyInIndy · August 2013

'Merica!!

jburdet1 · August 2013

I don't see a huge deal with transgender using the restroom they identify with, but I feel the locker room/change room would be a separate issue.
I'm all for minority rights and allowing people to feel comfortable and accepted but I, personally, wouldn't have felt comfortable in middle school or high school changing or showering in the presence of a transgender girl. While the transgender girl may identify as a female, she still has male sex organs. At that age, I was very sheltered and would have been pretty uncomfortable and overwhelmed with seeing male sex organs.
As I said I'm all for minority rights and making children feel accepted and comfortable but I'm also for making all children comfortable.

thusain7712 · August 2013

lrj85 said:

Single person at a time bathrooms! DONE problem solved! That way you dont have to put a gender on the door just use the gender neutral one

love it!

RondackHiker · August 2013

jburdet1 said:
I don't see a huge deal with transgender using the restroom they identify with, but I feel the locker room/change room would be a separate issue.
I'm all for minority rights and allowing people to feel comfortable and accepted but I, personally, wouldn't have felt comfortable in middle school or high school changing or showering in the presence of a transgender girl. While the transgender girl may identify as a female, she still has male sex organs. At that age, I was very sheltered and would have been pretty uncomfortable and overwhelmed with seeing male sex organs.
As I said I'm all for minority rights and making children feel accepted and comfortable but I'm also for making all children comfortable.

What about the transgendered child?

I also never remember a single person fully stripping for gym. It was mostly switching shirts and shorts as quickly as possible while staring awkwardly at the wall.

thusain7712 · August 2013

equal rights are great! one of my best friends is trans gender. born a male, and in fact still intact as a male, sometimes dresses as a woman sometimes he doesnt.

i had to ask him how he felt about the issue and he said "i dont know anyone who starts dressing thier newborn girl/boy in the opposite sex of clothes. transgender feelings might be something you start to realize even as young as three or four, but you cannot articulate what is going on. by the time you do, most people i know were ashamed and didnt dare bring more attention to themselves by going to school in the opposite sex clothes or asking to use that restroom. it wasnt until i was an adult in my 30s that i finally realized it was okay to be and i lived my life both ways depending on the mood i am in..."

the convo went on...but it brings up a good point. if my son decided he was a girl, i will run with that and make her happy...but everyone will already know him as a boy, this includes is friends.

so how are they addressing that? we all know she would be judged! im not saying everyone would, but society as a whole is not accepting equality for all, just yet.

i would think you'd almost have to move. i dont see a fourth graders handling this well at all, and would only cause more bullying.

jburdet1 · August 2013

RondackHiker said:

jburdet1 said:
I don't see a huge deal with transgender using the restroom they identify with, but I feel the locker room/change room would be a separate issue.
I'm all for minority rights and allowing people to feel comfortable and accepted but I, personally, wouldn't have felt comfortable in middle school or high school changing or showering in the presence of a transgender girl. While the transgender girl may identify as a female, she still has male sex organs. At that age, I was very sheltered and would have been pretty uncomfortable and overwhelmed with seeing male sex organs.
As I said I'm all for minority rights and making children feel accepted and comfortable but I'm also for making all children comfortable.
What about the transgendered child?

I also never remember a single person fully stripping for gym. It was mostly switching shirts and shorts as quickly as possible while staring awkwardly at the wall.

I would also be very concerned for the transgender child. I couldn't imagine a transgender child feeling comfortable in any locker room or change room.

I guess it would depend on your schedule or what activities you participated in school; many schools shower.

I know PP's suggestion of a separate bathroom was brushed off as unrealistic, but I feel that would be best for transgender children that are ashamed of their body parts or uncomfortable around others of the same sex.

Winnieella · August 2013

I don't know how I feel about this law. In one way I can see it as a good thing, equal rights, plus helping the transgendered child, but in the other way, I could see more bullying happening. Two years ago, I had a transgendered little boy in one of my clinical classes. She (I saw she since "he" said he wanted to be a girl) hated using the boys bathroom, and came to school in dresses, and talk about the prince she would marry. Her teacher plus me, the field experience student, did our best to make her feel comfortable, but there was teasing. Big teasing, and this was in a Kindergarten classroom. I hate to think of the teasing that could happen in High-school, or Middle school.

RondackHiker · August 2013

I wonder if letting the child use the bathroom of the gender he or she identifies with would lend legitimacy and make it seem more accepted?

I don't think allowing the correct bathroom would increase teasing. Teasing and bullying is already happening. Teasing and bullying is a serious and separate issue.

Winnieella · August 2013

car seat said:

MrsJWoodJr said:

I don't know how I feel about this law. In one way I can see it as a good thing, equal rights, plus helping the transgendered child, but in the other way, I could see more bullying happening. Two years ago, I had a transgendered little boy in one of my clinical classes. She (I saw she since "he" said he wanted to be a girl) hated using the boys bathroom, and came to school in dresses, and talk about the prince she would marry. Her teacher plus me, the field experience student, did our best to make her feel comfortable, but there was teasing. Big teasing, and this was in a Kindergarten classroom. I hate to think of the teasing that could happen in High-school, or Middle school.

But this is why it's important to help kids understand that this is okay. Should she have gone on pretending to be a boy when she knew she wasn't? Or should we make things better for these kids by teaching children that this is just part of life for some people?

Oh, I for sure don't thinks she should have gone on pretending to be a boy. The good thing is she has parents who were understanding and didn't force her to be a boy. But as a teacher there is only so much you can do to talk about respecting each other. Especially when you have kids in your classroom who repeat what their parents say. (And those aren't nice things either). I have learned that there times where if you don't have parental support on an issue, it will not get better no matter how hard you try, teach and talk to the children. (Mainly since the real little ones want to be just like their parents.)

Anyways, I just fear the teasing may increase from those thick headed people. I'm not saying that it would, it may. And I don't want that either.

thusain7712 · August 2013

i think we all agree, we want to live in an equal world...i would need to do more research but im guessing there are more out there who are not raising their children to accept all...so yes, in my perfect world we are teaching our kids to have love and compassion no matter who you are surrounded by...but i think our children will be well into adulthood before equality is happening to the extent we want it to.

TicaAngel00 · August 2013

I think it is a start to making sure that we demonstrate our acceptance of all people.

Sort of random aside: I was surprised when I found out that my university has co-ed bathrooms. It was actually kinda cool.

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