Self Soothing?

starshineamator · August 2013

My LO will be 14 weeks old tomorrow. When she was 11 weeks old, the pediatrician told us that she should be able to sleep through the night any day now. She asked if she was in bed with us, we said, and she recommended to just wait a few minutes when she starts to stir/wake up instead of feeding her right away, because she should be able to self soothe at this point and she isn't necessarily waking up because she's hungry, so I might be jumping to feed her too quickly, where if I left her alone, she'd just fall back to sleep.

Week 12 was pretty crazy with her growth spurt/wonder week. So after two glorious nights where she slept 7.5 hours, it was back to lots of wakings and feedings. After that week, she's been very very slowly working back up to longer sleep, but it seems to be only 5/5.5. hours now for the first stretch. But after that, it seems be worse than week 12, she's been waking up every 1/1.5 hours to eat. I've been trying to wait a few minutes to see if she settles on her own, but she never does. Not even once. So when I see she isn't going back to sleep, I'll try to help her- rubbing/patting her back, shushing her, etc. which has also never worked. And then by the time I get situated to feed her (readjusting our positions and pulling the boob out), she's really upset and crying.

I don't know what to do. I'm not getting any substantial sleep after that first stretch because she's waking up so often. It isn't hot in the room as it cools down at night, we have her in a sleep outfit so there's no blankets on her, she's right up against me (or Spouse, but me 98% of the time). She's always slept with us since she was born, but it is only the past few weeks I've been able to nurse her in bed, because before she was too small and my boobs are too large and she couldn't latch right in the side lying position. Now that she finally can, I thought it would get better being able to just feed her in bed and not have to get out of bed with her to feed her in the glider. That unfortunately hasn't been the case.

Help?

ETA: I am worried if she hasn't figured out self soothing at all it is going to be a problem for her.

pixieprincss · August 2013

It sounds like the 4-month wakeful to me. It will pass on its own, but is hard to live through!

As for self-soothing, it has never made sense to me why a tiny, totally reliant being needs self-soothing skills. It is a modern, cultural thing to have baby apart from mama and the idea of self-soothing is just a blip in the history of babies. I wouldn't sweat that.

For more realistic information about the sleep habits of breastfed babies, check out Kellymom: https://kellymom.com/parenting/nighttime/sleepstudies/.

Once the wakeful passes, side-laying nursing might end up as your best friend, so keep giving it a try.

musicalmama5 · August 2013

Yeah I wouldn't worry about self-soothing yet either. Babies need to first learn what I means to be soothed!

bullybutt · August 2013

And you might want to find a new pediatrician. Horrible advice IMO! Sleeping through the night for most babies is about 5-6 hours...not 10-12. The restless nights of sleep will creep back up when teething starts... there are many phases, some better than others...but they always pass.

TiffanyBerry · August 2013

A four month old is still VERY dependent on you. Your doctor's suggestions are based more on what parents want than what your average baby can do. (40% of kids don't sleep through the night even by 1yr old, iirc.) You may find that - once you get past the four month wakeful, and once you get used to it - you will get more sleep even though you don't change much anything else other than waiting.

ncbelle · August 2013

I agree - totally sounds like the 4 month wakeful and your pedi is simply wrong that baby should be able to self soothe. That's not what scientific research about infant development tells us! Definitely keep trying with the side lying nursing - so great once you figure it out!

st.augbride · August 2013

pixieprincss said:

It sounds like the 4-month wakeful to me. It will pass on its own, but is hard to live through!
As for self-soothing, it has never made sense to me why a tiny, totally reliant being needs self-soothing skills. It is a modern, cultural thing to have baby apart from mama and the idea of self-soothing is just a blip in the history of babies. I wouldn't sweat that.
For more realistic information about the sleep habits of breastfed babies, check out Kellymom: https://kellymom.com/parenting/nighttime/sleepstudies/.
Once the wakeful passes, side-laying nursing might end up as your best friend, so keep giving it a try.

Great link! Thanks!

ToastieSimons · August 2013

You child will learn to self soothe. Self Soothing is not limited to falling asleep. A child learns to self soothe when playing indepedently, or being content in a carseat, or watching the world go by. For some reason, people think self-soothe means "put themselves to sleep". But, it simply means being able to regulate themselves.

And FWIW, the best pedi's I've ever had have asked me how my boys sleep. When I answered "Oh he only gets up 1-2x/night" at 6months+ of age they responded with "Are you happy with that? Do you feel it's adequate or is a problem?" When I responded that I felt he was a great sleeper they dropped it.

boogerbearoriginal · August 2013

Honestly, I find the whole notion that a 4m old could soothe itself preposterous, so there's that. IMO Pedis should not be giving out sleep advice which is truly their own opinion and couching it as medical fact. Furthermore, studies have shown that babies who are responded to actually grow up more independence and self-assured than those who are left on their own.

Think of it this way, when you teach LO to do anything you show her - so you demonstrate how to tie her shoes, and repeatedly help her while giving her increasingly more space to work on it on her own. You wouldn't just throw sneakers at her and say, tie these. Learning any skill requires guidance, by soothing her you are showing her how to relax and that things are ok. She'll get the hang of calming herself when she's older and mentally capable of doing so.

Simply put, you are not doing any disservice to your child by responding to her cries/needs. BM is quickly digested so she very likely needs that feeding(s) overnight. She is growing and developing so rapidly, that nutrition is vital. While it sucks for Mom, who isn't getting the 8hrs she wants, it is temporary and LO will sleep longer stretches.

I think PPs suggestion of trying side-lay nursing to get some rest is spot-on. Once we mastered that, it really didn't matter if LO was up 1 or 5x overnight, I still felt decently rested most nights.

musicalmama5 · August 2013

Booger+Bear said:

Honestly, I find the whole notion that a 4m old could soothe itself preposterous, so there's that. IMO Pedis should not be giving out sleep advice which is truly their own opinion and couching it as medical fact. Furthermore, studies have shown that babies who are responded to actually grow up more independence and self-assured than those who are left on their own.

Think of it this way, when you teach LO to do anything you show her - so you demonstrate how to tie her shoes, and repeatedly help her while giving her increasingly more space to work on it on her own. You wouldn't just throw sneakers at her and say, tie these. Learning any skill requires guidance, by soothing her you are showing her how to relax and that things are ok. She'll get the hang of calming herself when she's older and mentally capable of doing so.

Simply put, you are not doing any disservice to your child by responding to her cries/needs. BM is quickly digested so she very likely needs that feeding(s) overnight. She is growing and developing so rapidly, that nutrition is vital. While it sucks for Mom, who isn't getting the 8hrs she wants, it is temporary and LO will sleep longer stretches.

I think PPs suggestion of trying side-lay nursing to get some rest is spot-on. Once we mastered that, it really didn't matter if LO was up 1 or 5x overnight, I still felt decently rested most nights.

Yes!

shimmershine91 · August 2013

I wouldn't worry about "spoiling" a child by attending to his/her needs. If a baby that young cries, it is because they truly need something.

I wish I was able to BF my DD, but sadly due to medical complications I dried up quickly. However, my best friend does exclusively BF, and says that if you nurse laying down at night that baby will eat until full and lull back into sleep.

starshineamator · August 2013

Thanks ladies. I'm not worried about spoiling her - the pedi made it seem like self-soothing was one it those milestones that babies are supposed to be able to do by a certain age. And since mine doesn't, I was concerned it was indicating a problem. I do side lying nursing but it still requires a bit of maneuvering because of my massive breasts (I'm a J cup). Some nights it works better than others. But I'm sticking it out! Thanks for making me feel better about it.

PipSqueak0313 · August 2013

Im only a B or C cup, I think.....I am an A normally....but the first position I was able to get ds to nurse in was with me on my back, belly to belly with ds propped up like I had slept while pg and dealing with heartburn....more like the laid back position. Since I slept that way while pg I have had no trouble sleeping that way while nursing. Since I am so small I dont know if it works for larger cup sizes.

sucredee · August 2013

If I have to believe my mom I started STTN at 2 weeks...I think she probably just didn't wake up herself

. DD had a few days around 12 weeks where she slept for about 10 hours straight (painful for me!). That never happened again until she was closer to 3 years old! Friends would tell me that if she always nursed to sleep she would never be able to fall asleep on her own. She quit nursing to sleep around 15 months on her own. She still nurses last thing before bed but she goes into bed awake (unless she skipped her nap) and then settles her self. If she wakes up in the middle of the night she still wants to nurse. It rarely happens anymore but when she wakes up it is usually because something scared her (like princess that hit her over the head, ladybugs that at eating her feet etc). She took a long time to STTN but I was Ok with that (she is in her own bed and always has been). It was so much easier to just wake up (I would be awake anyway because her room is attached to ours) and nurse her and have her back asleep in a few minutes. Do what works for you. At 12 weeks I wouldn't even worry about it but when she gets older and people start giving you advice don't worry about it, do what works for you. If that involves sleep training that's fine but if you don't mind her waking up and nursing then who cares. She will figure it out some day. Pretty soon she won't need you so you might as well enjoy it as long as it works for you.

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