Sleep training

rsheehan10 · August 2013

So at the 4 mo pedi appt the dr mentioned that we may want to consider sleep training as our lo wakes 3 to 6 times a night mostly to be soothed and once to eat. I am not opposed to CIO at all. Currently we put lo in the crib asleep so I think he has difficulty getting back to sleep on his own in the MOTN. Should we buy a sleep training book or rather loosely follow her suggestions? What worked best for you? The temperament of our lo has always been more fussy and high strung to say the least so I'm not sure if sleep training would even work. Thanks ladies.

jonesie2010 · August 2013

We have been working on putting LO down drowsy but awake for several weeks now and I feel that it is just starting to work better. Not sure if she wasn't ready before or if it just takes that long to sink in.

What's been working for us is a nighttime routine of diaper and jammies followed by a book. Then we lay her down and walk out of the room. Sometimes she just does a mild, whiny complaining cry. For that, we usually don't go in. If she escalates to intense crying, we will go in every 10 min or so to soothe, pat her belly, replace paci. We do not pick up unless she is absolutely inconsolable with no chance of calming down on her own. The time it takes for her to settle down has gradually been decreasing from about an hour when we first started to about 20 min now.

I have noticed in the past week or so that she is beginning to transfer this skill to her night wakings. She usually wakes about an hour after we put her down. We used to have to go soothe her but lately if we wait about 5 minutes, she will put herself back to sleep. That NEVER happened before.

Something that really helped us was a nice battery operated mobile with music and lights. We had a windup one which was just dumb because we had to go in there every 5 min and it sounded like creepy clown music. But she loves the new one we got and it helps her settle.

jonesie2010 · August 2013

Forgot to mention...I got the Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child book on the advice of our pedi but I honestly haven't read it. I tried skimming through but was too sleep deprived from hourly wakings to get anything out of it. Going with our gut and the strategies I've read about on these boards has worked for us so far.

08summerbride · August 2013

A book, if you have time to read it, some times gives you something to anchor to. I think any of them that people on this board recommend will work, its just a matter of being consistent. I read healthy sleep habits, and took which ideas worked for us and put them into place with pretty good success. Others seem to like the no cry sleep solution. A book also gives you something to refer to when it doesn't seem to be working.

Crequito · August 2013

I got the No Cry Sleep Solution because I wanted to try that before CIO. I wound up not really needing a lot of the tips. DD handled unswaddling like a breeze and isn't having an issue with going down drowsy - which totally surprised me considering I'd been rocking her to complete sleep for almost 4 months. I just started putting her down drowsy this weekend and I'd say 4 out of 5 times it worked. Last night I had to rock her a little past drowsy, but I think she was over tired. Of course this could all change at the drop of a hat.

One of the things No Cry tells you to do is pick a day or two and track baby's sleeping/napping - what time, how long, where baby slept and what you had to do to get baby to sleep. Then you can start to see if baby has their own patterns or if certain things help/hurt the sleep process.

rsheehan10 · August 2013

Forgot to ask the most important question! Do I let him CIO in the MOTN? Obviously if he appears hungry we will feed. But the other times are just for comfort wakings.

LisaLisa1980 · August 2013

rsheehan10 said:
Forgot to ask the most important question! Do I let him CIO in the MOTN? Obviously if he appears hungry we will feed. But the other times are just for comfort wakings.

Why would you deny your baby comfort?? Here is a good article on why that's bad

https://www.naturalchild.org/advice/q09.html

LisaLisa1980 · August 2013

Just want to add that even adults sometimes wake up to eat too. I think we forget that babies are not robots and we put too much pressure on them to be a certain way - sleep all night, no crying, no eating after X time. We need to remember to follow their cues and provide for their needs. Yes it means many sleepless nights, getting up to soothe, feed our babies, but that is just how it is - for everyone. It's normal and it's ok.

mishka29 · August 2013

I used the Sleep Sense Training Program. It's very similar to Ferber.

I would suggest that if you are going to do a CIO then pick a method and follow all the steps. Sleep training is about getting them to fall asleep on their own, not about cutting out all MOTN feedings.

As PP suggested, wait until the regression is over as well.

Pearls+Oysters · August 2013

I've seen my brother and SIL struggle with my niece, who would only sleep in 2 hour stretches, day and night. She started STTN at 8 months, and even then, she would wake once every night, needing to be soothed back to sleep.

They didn't do CIO, they followed her sleepy cues and had to act quickly before she became overtired (and that was easily within minutes). They put her in her crib drowsy, after a quick 10min "routine": diaper, pj, story, kiss goodnight and lights out. Once they did that around 7 months, she started sleeping in 5 hour stretches at night (so 10 hours overall). A month later she slept 9 hours every night. Never went to bed at a set time, just followed her cues. Eventually, and to this day at 20 months, 7pm is her bedtime.

I don't believe in CIO, and I guess part of the reason why is I was blessed with a great sleeper. Still, I believe babies are meant to learn on their own time, and parents are meant to answer their needs. It can't be easy, I feel for you, but hang in there! I know that first night DS slept 8 hours I thought it was a fluke, but it kept happening and it will for you too!

LindseyLooMagoo · August 2013

My son who turns 5 months tomorrow has been waking up to be soothed 4 or more times a night for the past 5 weeks.. He too is a little high strung.. Last night we tried the Ferber method.. Put him down at 8 he screamed until 8:22 then fall asleep until 3:00am to eat.. It was amazing!! While I know it's only the first night and things could go south again. I just thought I'd let you know how it went for us

rsheehan10 · August 2013

Thank you all for the responses. Even if it went to 2 wakings a night I would be a new woman! I understand he needs a MOTN feeding and don't plan to cut that our until he is ready.

ceamac0127 · August 2013

@LisaLisa1980 is that article your only rebuttle when it comes to this topic?? that article doesn't answer anything and it doesn't prove a point!

LisaLisa1980 · August 2013

cmcmillan0901 said:
@LisaLisa1980 is that article your only rebuttle when it comes to this topic?? that article doesn't answer anything and it doesn't prove a point!

It tells you why CIO is not good

[Deleted User] · August 2013

You shouldn't sleep train a 4 month old. Google "4 month wakeful" it's quite normal and actually expected for your LO to still be waking at night. Look into sleep training after 6 months if you still think it necessary. Good luck.

HML5382 · August 2013

I think 4 month is the perfect time to start. The reason babies wake more at 4 months is because that is when they develop sleep cycles, which wake them periodically throughout the night when they switch between REM & nonREM sleep. So this is really the best time to teach them to fall asleep on their own so they can keep themselves asleep in the night instead of waking up completely.

And sleep training doesn't mean cutting out MOTN feedings. Plenty of babies will hold on to night feedings for months still, but that doesn't mean you can't teach them how to fall asleep. In fact if they know how to put themselves to sleep they will likely ONLY wake when they need to eat and it's less of a guessing game! My DD was waking every 2 hours in the night and I never knew which time I should feed her, so we both had lots of extra wakeful time while I tried to figure it all out. Now she is only getting up once to eat at night, and during the day instead of 4-5 short naps, she takes 2 naps that are an hour+ and one short nap in the evening.

B27 · August 2013

I don't believe in CIO. I think babies actually cry more bc their needs are not being met. I have done the pick up/put down method in the baby whisperer books. I also incorporate lots of activity during the day, tummy time, play mat time, a walk, a bedtime routine, ect. My baby sleeps 7:30 pm to 6:00 am and has since 7 weeks.

pinottoparenthood · August 2013

I have sort of done some "sleep training" in that I have started to teach DS how to put himself to sleep, but we have not done cry it out (DS isn't even four months yet and I'm not sure if I would do it, much less when he is this young).

I started by putting him down drowsy but awake at bedtime. Some nights he would go to sleep by himself. Some nights he would start fussing. I let him fuss in his crib a bit, but if it escalated to where he was really about to CRY cry, I got him, held him/bounced him until he was super sleepy again, and put him back down. Then within the next day or two, I started doing the same for naps.

I used to nurse him to sleep for bedtime and every single nap, so it was kind of hard at first. Sometimes I had to go and get him, comfort/bounce him, and put him down four times before he went to sleep. But as I kept doing it, eventually.. he went to sleep by himself! Now on a good day, I can put him down basically wide awake (once he starts yawning/rubbing his face) and he will go to sleep.

Like PP's have said, no matter what method you choose to use, the most important thing is that you're consistent and persistent. Sometimes it's a PITA. Sometimes I would rather just give up and nurse him because it's so much easier than spending an hour getting him down for a 30-minute nap. But in the end I'm glad we stuck with it because it's SO much easier in the long run.

It also helped me to give him things to soothe himself. He found his hands and sucks those now, so that helps... he does lots of hand-sucking when he is putting himself to sleep (he would never take a paci). Also, I will give him an A&A blanket. He likes to rub it over his face and suck on it when he is settling down and it helps to soothe him. I can take it out of the crib once he falls asleep. In his carseat, he uses a taggies blanket to soothe himself. If you want your baby to learn to self-soothe, it's important that he has ways to do that. Some babies just can't yet at 4 months, but some definitely can.

Finally, I would not let baby CIO in the MOTN. Like a PP said, the point isn't that you never have to help baby. The point is that baby learns to put himself to sleep. If you successfully sleep train, what will eventually happen is that you won't even know when baby wakes up in the MOTn because he will put himself back to sleep. Then when he is crying, you know that he needs you.

amykins1283 · August 2013

We had the most luck using Ferber with our first as he seemed to need a very straight forward, no nonsense approach to learning how to self soothe. Our second has bern a self soother almost from the beginning and has not required any sleep training so far. Personally, I think sleep training is beneficial to everyone.

stacey171 · August 2013

This is the program we used.https://www.sleepsense.net/share.html?p= You can take a free sleep report. It worked like magic for us. By the 3rd night my dd was falling asleep completely on her own and not waking up in the MOTN anymore. I highly recommend it, especially because I was totally agains any "training" this program teaches you easy tricks and good sleep habits, not some rigorous sleep training like some of these other programs and books.

vindaloo · August 2013

We used Weissbluth (Healthy Sleep Habits...) and Ferber successfully with our son, and are applying the same principles with LO as appropriate now, with great success.

I highly recommend that you get the books and read them (it was easier for me on the kindle). That's the only way you will fully understand the theories and concepts necessary to make the techniques work. Sleep training isn't formulaic, you need to use some intuition, which you learn by reading the actual books.

erinmc1 · August 2013

Our LO started self-soothing around 2.5 months, and sleeping through the night. Prior to that, I attended to every peep he made, and I think I might have actually been keeping him from getting more sleep than he would if I wasn't arousing him fully by soothing him, in addition to causing myself pretty severe sleep deprivation (hubby is deployed, and I'm the sole caregiver at night). Once I started deciphering between real crying and little whines, everything changed. We also got into a routine where I feed him his final bottle, then put him down drowsy on a nightly schedule, and he knows that's sleep time and will only fuss for a couple minutes, if at all.

The only downside is that he now prefers sleeping in his crib or P&P versus being held and sleep snuggling. I know I'm incredibly lucky, though, so I certainly don't complain.

VPGIRL06 · August 2013

it's really hard because different methods apply to different babies. Some babies with easy temperaments never need any sort of sleep training. Some babies can't stand to be picked up and put down, and some need that little reassurance.

i think you need to assess your baby and what will make you feel better to do. Ferber might work, sleep easy, etc.

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