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December 2012 Moms
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I'm getting pissed

perfectlove09perfectlove09 member
in December 2012 Moms
I CANNOT get my baby to sleep. EVER. EVER. I'm not exaggerating. It takes me over an hour every single night. I'm not kidding. It doesn't matter what time I put her to bed, if I rock her, nurse her, bounce her, lay with her, stay in the room, leave the room, rub her back, rub her head, sing, shush until I'm dizzy...nothing. Once she FINALLY goes to sleep she will wake up 15 mins later.

Same for naps. She absolutely refuses to sleep for me at all. She talks, rolls, now she can sit herself up, cries, grunts, smiles, and if I finally have enough and leave the room she FLIPS OUT. Not like "I'm sad you left please come back" crying. It's "OH MY GOD!!!!! YOU HATE ME. I KNOW YOU DO! WHY ELSE WOULD YOU EVER WALK AWAY AND LEAVE ME IN THIS ROOM ALL BY MYSLEF!?!?!? IM GOING TO SCREAM BLOODY MURDER UNTIL THE NEIGHBORS CALL THE COPS AND THEY MAKE YOU COME BACK AND BE WITH ME! OH And I'm telling GRANDMA!"
.....at least that's what imagine she's saying when I leave.

I do the sound machine, the lights off, the routine. I'm going to go crazy here ladies I spend over 8 hours a week just putting her to bed at night.
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DD#1 December '12
DD#2 New Year's Baby '15
Married 07/09
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Re: I'm getting pissed

  • jac409jac409 member
    Oh my, I'm sorry. This sounds so frustrating. How long do you let her cry or scream when you leave? I have a pretty good sleeper, so I am no help, unfortunately. Have you looked into a sleep therapist? Does your DH have better luck?
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  • mejane123mejane123 member
    Are you waiting until she shows signs of sleepiness, or are you putting her down before? I usually put DD down as soon as I see the first eye rub or look of bleariness. It could be you're putting her down too late? Or maybe too early? 

    Have you tried a little projector that's also a sound machine? I thought they were silly when I got one at my shower, but it does wonders getting DD's attention diverted when I leave the room. If she sees me leave, she gets all pissy, but I'll put it on and duck out, and that USUALLY occupies her enough that she forgets that I "left her."



    The second one is higher quality, has more settings, interchangeable slides, etc. The first one is a cheapy that I got at my shower, but surprisingly, she seems to love it, and it runs on batteries, so I can move it from room to room.

    Honestly, the one thing I've discovered about DD is that the "white noise" I find soothing, like a woooooosh, is not as soothing to her. She likes lullabies, heartbeat, river with birds, that kind of thing. So I've had to kind of step away from thinking about what might help me and realize that she's her own person, even at 8 months, and won't necessarily find the same things helpful. In addition, when it comes to things like sound machines and projectors, it's kind of senseless to listen to the reviews because every baby is different and we just have to go through the trial-and-error of figuring out what they like.


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  • Jacqui105Jacqui105 member
    I've seen several of your posts about sleep issues and I feel so bad for the exhaustion you are going through, so, you've tried it all-except a sleep training method that involves crying. Maybe its time. Have you read the Feber book? Maybe try and see if it starts to sound right for you. Since nothing else is working, its probably worth a try. And honestly, the crying is "Im pissed off get in here and give me my way" much more than "oh youve abandoned me." She is used to you doing all those interventions, she will resist. But they only feel abandonment when their needs are not otherwise met. As in, daily, during the day, you don't feed her when she wants, don't change her when she needs it, etc. i know you are not doing that, so a little crying at night truly will not create abandonment issues. She has some strong sleep associations it seems, making her unable to transition on her own from one sleep cycle to the next. A method like progressive waiting would probably be Good for her. Its like, if your child wants a cookie after they've had ten cookies, you don't let them have another so they don't get sick, etc. The child would of course cry in protest. Its hard to hear but clearly the right choice to their health. The same with sleep training. They are crying, but it is good for them and their health and you health to learn to sleep. I guess my opinion is, try a consistent method that involves her learning to sleep on her own, which means some crying. She is clearly not responding to anything gentler you're trying, so its worth a shot. I really encourage you to just read Feber and see how you feel. DD1 woke every 30 min at night as a baby. I tried No Cry Sleep Solution and it didn't work. I decided to just read Ferber and what he says really hit home. We did his method and one night of crying, she was a champ sleeper after. We were all healthier and therefore happier once sleeping properly. Maybe you are projecting your feelings on her a bit when you say her cry is a why did you abandon me cry? I bet she is just mad, and it will be the first of many times in parenting you child gets mad and cries as you enforce what is best for them. My two cents anyway. Good luck.
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  • mydixiewreckedmydixiewrecked member
    I feel so awful for you reading this and just wanted to say I hope some of the advice PP's gave you works for you guys. I  wish you lots of luck and lots of ZZZ's.Also, I can't remember if you have mentioned it,but does her Pedi have any advice at all?
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  • perfectlove09perfectlove09 member
    Thank you all so much. I'm glad I don't sound like a whiny momma. I'm just so at a loss for what to do.
    We need to replace the batteries in her mobile so maybe that could help. It has a projector if you remove the canopy or the projector will shine on it with the animals. The batteries have web dead for a while so maybe that would be a good place to start.
    I always use the same sound on the sleep machine. Maybe that's something that should change? When I turn it on now she rubs her eyes immediately.

    I put her down then first sign of an eye rub. I've experimented a few times and tried keeping her up later and waiting for several eye rubs but that doesn't work. I've tried sooner and that's just as bad.
    DH does not have these problems.

    I will read Ferber. I guess it can't hurt to read it. I did read in a book that this is the WORST time to start sleep training bc separation anxiety is kicking in now. Great.

    Her dr suggested a sleep therapist that we can't afford. I've been unable to find another local one.
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  • ediloedilo member
    Borrow/Buy Dr. Ferber's book (Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems), get your DH/SO on board and give it a shot. You have to be firm in your resolve with this method though, and be sure to read the book first. There will be crying. It will be very hard. However, if it is something you can handle, the sleep gained makes it well worth it (for you and your baby). I used Ferber's method with both of my kids with great results.
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  • mejane123mejane123 member
    perfectlove09 said:
    Thank you all so much. I'm glad I don't sound like a whiny momma. I'm just so at a loss for what to do. We need to replace the batteries in her mobile so maybe that could help. It has a projector if you remove the canopy or the projector will shine on it with the animals. The batteries have web dead for a while so maybe that would be a good place to start. I always use the same sound on the sleep machine. Maybe that's something that should change? When I turn it on now she rubs her eyes immediately. I put her down then first sign of an eye rub. I've experimented a few times and tried keeping her up later and waiting for several eye rubs but that doesn't work. I've tried sooner and that's just as bad. DH does not have these problems. I will read Ferber. I guess it can't hurt to read it. I did read in a book that this is the WORST time to start sleep training bc separation anxiety is kicking in now. Great. Her dr suggested a sleep therapist that we can't afford. I've been unable to find another local one.
    Definitely give the projector a shot, you never know. I find the one that she likes to be absolutely insanely annoying (there's these weird fairy sounds, a creepy lady that sings at the start, some crickets), but she settles down almost immediately, so whatever works, right? I will say, though, that when I lay there and watch the projector with her, I start to doze. Maybe try turning it on, laying next to her crib for a few minutes until she settles, then sneaking out? If you're still there while she's dozing, she may not notice so much when you sneak out.

    We haven't gotten to the point where we need to try Ferber, but I think if all else failed, that's where we'd end up. I have one friend who is to the point now where she isn't even going to bother trying too hard to get her 2 year old out of their bed and into his own because she thinks it'd be impossible, and she absolutely refuses to try Ferber. I always thought I'd be the same way, but at 8 months, with DD constantly waking up every time I move in bed (DH finally moved to the guest room), it's just easier on all of us if she's in her own space. Definitely keep it up, it sounds like you're on the right path. Good luck!
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  • jac409jac409 member
    About Ferber...don't knock it til you try it. I was really trying to avoid having to do it, but we finally got to the point that we just had to give it a shot. Honestly, I was pleasantly surprised at how well it went. It certainly wasn't painless, but it wasn't nearly as bad as I had anticipated, I definitely recommend at least checking it out.
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  • SebsMumSebsMum member
    The Ferber book really broke down how we fall asleep and, at the very least, assured me that he knew what the hell he was talking about.  DS's sleep improved dramatically and we got rid of his dependency on his pacifier in one night.  Controlled crying isn't the only solution he suggests, just the most talked about.  It's definitely worth reading!
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  • TheEditorTheEditor member
    Jacqui105 said:
    I've seen several of your posts about sleep issues and I feel so bad for the exhaustion you are going through, so, you've tried it all-except a sleep training method that involves crying. Maybe its time. Have you read the Feber book? Maybe try and see if it starts to sound right for you. Since nothing else is working, its probably worth a try. And honestly, the crying is "Im pissed off get in here and give me my way" much more than "oh youve abandoned me." She is used to you doing all those interventions, she will resist. But they only feel abandonment when their needs are not otherwise met. As in, daily, during the day, you don't feed her when she wants, don't change her when she needs it, etc. i know you are not doing that, so a little crying at night truly will not create abandonment issues. She has some strong sleep associations it seems, making her unable to transition on her own from one sleep cycle to the next. A method like progressive waiting would probably be Good for her. Its like, if your child wants a cookie after they've had ten cookies, you don't let them have another so they don't get sick, etc. The child would of course cry in protest. Its hard to hear but clearly the right choice to their health. The same with sleep training. They are crying, but it is good for them and their health and you health to learn to sleep. I guess my opinion is, try a consistent method that involves her learning to sleep on her own, which means some crying. She is clearly not responding to anything gentler you're trying, so its worth a shot. I really encourage you to just read Feber and see how you feel. DD1 woke every 30 min at night as a baby. I tried No Cry Sleep Solution and it didn't work. I decided to just read Ferber and what he says really hit home. We did his method and one night of crying, she was a champ sleeper after. We were all healthier and therefore happier once sleeping properly. Maybe you are projecting your feelings on her a bit when you say her cry is a why did you abandon me cry? I bet she is just mad, and it will be the first of many times in parenting you child gets mad and cries as you enforce what is best for them. My two cents anyway. Good luck.
    Totally agree.  We started that modified sleep training at 4 months because LO was not going to sleep because he was much more interested in simply exercising his will and independence.  It was early, but it worked.  Our pedi recommended it because at some level he was learning to manipulate us with his crying to get what he wanted.  And we were giving in at every turn.  The modified-CIO took us about 2 weeks to get down, and he's slept much better ever since.  Not ever consistently STTN, but only waking once to eat, and twice during growth spurts.

    Even this morning, I laughed in LO's face because he was so blatantly trying to manipulate me.  I set him in his crib so I could start washing his dipes.  As soon as I turned from him, he tipped his head back and just wailed for no reason other than I was leaving him for a few minutes.  I turned back and just laughed out loud, and wouldn't you know, within 2 seconds his tears of despair turned to laughter.  I told him, "You are BUSTED, little boy!"  What a little manipulator!

    So I agree that her cries of "abandonment" are likely cries that say, "But I want you here and I know if I scream and cry you'll stay for as long as I want!  And then if you leave and I wake up, all I have to do is cry and you'll come right back!  Hahahaha!  Gotcha!"

    I never read the Ferber book; I just read a series of articles on CIO methods and we picked one and stayed consistent with it.  Now LO is even learning to play on his own in his crib in the mornings where he used to wail as soon as he woke up.  I call that a success.
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  • mejane123mejane123 member
    Another thing I wanted to suggest it something the nurse at my pedi suggested. She said she did a "back away" thing with her kids, where she would pat and soothe for a few minutes to get them to settle, then just continue talking/singing/shushing and slowly backing out of the room. There was definitely crying, but it worked. I kind of do something similar that to help kind of get DD used to me being there but not being there. I sometimes stick her in her PNP or crib while I'm switching laundry loads, folding laundry, etc., and when she starts fussing or crying I'll just talk to her or sing to her from the other room or as I'm moving around so I'm still "there" for her. 

    I also do some peek-a-boo with her while she's in her crib. I'll put her in, then crouch down low, and play by popping back up and looking over the side. I really think that's all helped her understand that I'm still there even if she can't see or touch me. You could also maybe try putting something that smells like you in the crib with her. I used to wrap a blanket around my belly under my shirt for an hour or so before bed and lay that in there with her.
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  • perfectlove09perfectlove09 member
    @JandACoffee I've heard about the sleep lady shuffle. I've had a question about it for a while maybe you can answer? When on the 4th night you aren't right next to the crib but near it, if she sits up or is crying do you just stay where you are an shhh her? Or do you go back and forth? I'm sure it's in the book but I haven't had time to pick it up.

    We aren't night weaning either. But she has done some pretty long stretches without needed to nurse. I don't always go in expecting to nurse her when she cries. I'll give her the paci and hang out for a while but unless its taking 30 mins or more to get her to settle I won't nurse. Not because I don't want to but bc she doesn't seem to need it. She just goes back to sleep.

    I just laid her down for a nap. She was sleepy, yawning, rubbing eyes. I hold her for a few mins before i put her in the crib, I sing or shh her. If she's super cuddly I hold her longer bc it's so sweet to me. She was dozing off so I laid her in the crib. I waited there for about 10 mins but she started talking and rolling around so I left. I could hear her on the monitor talking for 20 mins. She finally seems to have fallen asleep all on her own. I'm going to peak in there real quick to make sure but I'm glad she did it on her own!
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    DD#1 December '12
    DD#2 New Year's Baby '15
    Married 07/09
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