UPDATED: Concerning Discussion with DS. WWYD?

Princess_Lily · July 2013

So we've decided to start discussions in the next few weeks with a child psychologist/behaviorist, to see where the breakdown in DS's thoughts on authority are coming from - like I said I don't want to ignore this until K, I want him to get the help he needs as early as possible. I am just a little upset since last night, and I'm processing some things that DS told me yesterday.

So as you know, he has been having difficulty in this preschool, well yesterday around 10:30a I get a call from the school, one of DS' teachers calling me to tell me that they need help with DS - that "...he is too uncontrollable." in the background, I hear DS in hysterics, like full blown tears.

I hop in the car and in 14min I arrive at the school, and DS' two teachers come out and explain to me that after DS' lesson activities for the day he was told he could play with the toys, and so he did. However when he was asked to clean up the toys, they told me that he started to hit the children and the teachers. I was in shock, and I expressed how this weekend we have been going over the meaning of authority, and that he knows he shouldn't hit. We also practiced letter writing this weekend - and found that he could sit for 20min on a lesson plan. I was curious how long they have the children sit for the activity, and they said "as long as the child needs," there are 2 lesson plans per hour; some take 10 min and some take 1 hour. Now if the student finishes both within before the time is up, they could play with toys until "Lesson Hour" is done.

They brought DS out to the lobby to see me, and he was happy as a clam, no sign of tears. We were told that we would be expecting a call by the director today or tommorow to discuss DS' future in the school. I am fine with that.

Jump to later that night, about a half hour before bed, I brought up a conversation (also being careful not to prompt a "yes" or "no" or lead a question):

Me: DS, what happened at preschool today? Could you tell Mommy?

DS: A girl spanked me, like this. ::Hit his left forearm with his right hand::

Me: A girl teacher or student?

DS: A teacher.

I took a few minutes to process what was just said...and I asked again.

Me: Can you tell me what made you sad at preschool today?

DS: I wanted to play with toys and they said, "No." and they spanked me like this... ::bent over and spanked his butt::

Me: Do you know who spanked you?

::DS Nods::

Me: Whats her name?

DS: (unsure of name, still says it)

Me: Can you point her out to Mommy tomorrow?

::DS Nods::

This is not the first time that he has mentioned that someone hit him since he has joined the preschool. While we were at Speech last Wednesday, he went up to the receptionist and said:

DS: I have a problem, I have to tell you something.

Recept: What do you have to tell me.

DS: A girl (then said boy) hit me like this... ::Hit his left forearm with his right hand::

Me: DS, you never told me this today, that you got spanked.

DS' Speech Therapist came out, and I told her what was just said - I never went inside with them. At the end of the session she said that he told her that story and had a look of concern on her face. She told me to tell the school to model a conversation, so that he could express what is happening - he has difficulty expressing sometimes - maybe because he is still processing it. Like, if you say, "DS how was your day today?" You will get "Good." However, if you ask him questions he can express situations well. I called the director during the speech session, and expressed what the therapist told me. His response was, "Oh no, I saw what happened - a girl bumped into him on the playground he didn't get hit." I am not sure when the "incident" occured at preschool because he told me this after I picked him up at the end of the day. Yesterday's incident happened while in the classroom. DS also said, "I don't want to go to preschool anymore because it is dangerous."

Now DS hasn't been known to exaggerate stories. He is actually is quite honest, and will say that, "Mommy spanked me today," if he is asked or something to that effect. Now (rarely) spanking will happen in our household, but its a butt spank and its like 1 or 2. In the preschools though, we do not believe in corporal punishment, and in the booklet it says nothing about touching a child (hitting, etc.) as a form of discipline methods.

DH said not to push the conversation with the school, to ignore it. For me, I feel like its ignoring a bigger problem, but maybe tell the director as a concern without making accusations... I don't know.

Rachel Sonnier · July 2013

First, I am so sorry that you are having to go through this. I could have written this myself last year, right down to the time of the meltdown. Our issue turned out to be sensory, and he really had perceived that the other kid had hurt him, even though it was just a bump. My son is very honest, and usually pretty reliable, for the most part (as much as a preschooler can be), so we had a lot of trouble figuring this one out too.

He later started engaging in similar self protective behaviors. For example, his baby cousin was learning to walk around this time, and she would walk to him and grab on for support, like babies do. He wasn't stable enough to bear her weight and his own, and they would both fall. So, unbeknownst to us, he perceived that she was trying to knock him down, even though the rest of us knew that this wasn't the case.

We didn't figure this out until he started pushing her down any time she came near him. We assumed that it was a behavior problem, jealousy or something, but it was out of character for him, because he LOVES her, and they had always interacted well. When we finally got to the bottom of it, he said he was mad at her, because she kept knocking him over, and that he pushed her down, because was afraid that she would make him fall again.

So yes, I would tend to believe the adult, especially if you don't have any reason not to, but that doesn't mean that he didn't perceive that someone had hurt him. It could just be behavior, and possibly he is being a bit manipulative as Auntie pointed out. Hard to say, but you know your kid. If you think that being manipulative, or making up stories, is out of character for him, then maybe it is something else. I know I have seen you post regarding sensory issues before, so that's why I chimed in. Hope things work out soon! :-)

funchicken · July 2013

I thought both of the PPs had really good insight/advice. One thing I would add is that I get the sense from your posts that you're not completely comfortable with this new preschool. If that's the case, then maybe you should look for something that feels like a better fit for your DS. If he's happier in a play-based preschool that's fine. I think four year olds learn best through play. They don't need academics-- they need to learn how to get along with peers, listen to adults other than their parents, and gain some independence. Just my 2 cents.

Princess_Lily · July 2013

While I have already called up to schedule an appointment with a psychologist, DS is now officially out of the school, the Director said that due to DS's behavior asked us to leave today - he had another meltdown today.

Fret not, he is going back to the play and learn preschool which meets 2x per week starting August 29th.

I am so upset though, while I am trying to process what happened today, DH decided to reprimand me for 15min., telling me how it is my fault that DS is the way he is, that its because I (and grandparents) spoil him that he is acting the way he is - that going to a psychologist is a waste of time...that its because of how we spoiled him that this behavior is present (not respectful of authority figures). Meanwhile DH works 10+ hours a day, comes home and rarely will participate in family activities. He checks out of the world when he's home, but when DS is in trouble - he will decide to be the authority figure, and then after complain that he doesn't have a relationship with DS other than the authoritarian role. I am 6mo pregnant and have no respite from this life...I am tired, I'm stressed and my husband won't just support me or my feelings right now.

bumpuser511563 · July 2013

Princess_Lily said:

While I have already called up to schedule an appointment with a psychologist, DS is now officially out of the school, the Director said that due to DS's behavior asked us to leave today - he had another meltdown today.

Fret not, he is going back to the play and learn preschool which meets 2x per week starting August 29th.

I am so upset though, while I am trying to process what happened today, DH decided to reprimand me for 15min., telling me how it is my fault that DS is the way he is, that its because I (and grandparents) spoil him that he is acting the way he is - that going to a psychologist is a waste of time...that its because of how we spoiled him that this behavior is present (not respectful of authority figures). Meanwhile DH works 10+ hours a day, comes home and rarely will participate in family activities. He checks out of the world when he's home, but when DS is in trouble - he will decide to be the authority figure, and then after complain that he doesn't have a relationship with DS other than the authoritarian role. I am 6mo pregnant and have no respite from this life...I am tired, I'm stressed and my husband won't just support me or my feelings right now.

You sound like my old self with my DS with similar issues. The most recent was when DS bit DH at pick up from daycare a few weeks ago and my DH put blame on me. I let him have it and said "How is it my fault if I am not there?" He shut up real quick.

Truth is it is not your fault. I want to let your DH have it! That is how mad I am!

You should tell your DH, "how is it your fault if you are not there?" It clearly is the teacher's fault for not knowing how to handle your DS!

Princess_Lily · July 2013

You sound like my old self with my DS with similar issues. The most recent was when DS bit DH at pick up from daycare a few weeks ago and my DH put blame on me. I let him have it and said "How is it my fault if I am not there?" He shut up real quick.
I told him how I have no F-in clue why its present, but sticking our heads in the sand for another year isn't going to make this any better, that we have exhausted every attempt on our own, and now its time to seek more help - heck, the speech therapist helped us! I am just tired, and I have no other place to vent my worries and fears...both of our goals still remain to have DS be where he needs to be in time for preschool. I told him that repremanding each other isn't going to make the situation better, and will already make a stressful time worse with no support. While he seems to be receptive now, its just exhausting from all around...

bumpuser511563 · July 2013

Getting a behavioral therapist is a good start in the right direction. Ours isn't much help with autism behaviors but she is more for me to be a good parent and good advocate for DS.

If your DH does not go with you at all. Go without him.

Princess_Lily · July 2013

Sailor, he said he will go with me, and I was just on the phone with a psychologist who deals with DS' age...and appointments are available after DHs work.

bumpuser511563 · July 2013

Yay! That is good!

Assembly_Reqd · July 2013

Hugs!

lite-bright · July 2013

I'm so sorry you're not getting the support you need from your DH. I hope talking with the psych helps get him on the same page & make him realize how unfair he's being.

Erinvp120 · August 2013

Believe your son until further reasoning not to- if my son came home and said this to me, there would be some serious repercussions for his school. No one- I mean no one puts there's hands on my child. Believe him. Investigate. Good luck, and I'm sorry you're having to deal with this-very scary and unsettling.

Princess_Lily · August 2013

Erinvp120M, My instinct is to believe DS, and I'm glad he was pulled because of these stories - while I did bring them up with the director yesterday, he stonewalled me saying, "...That doesn't happen in my preschool," but doesn't offer any further discussion about it.

While DH and I both are on the side of DS, we still see difficulties that need to be addressed - the defiance of authority in his life (Grandparents, Teachers, etc.), just because sadly this preschool wasn't our first (however we never heard the stories we have had this past 2 weeks).

Auntie, I am leaning towards a possibility of SPD and ODD, however can SPD still exist at his age?

He still is still quite sensitive especially under stressful times in his life, but has learned to self-regulate (covering his ears during loud noises, etc.) but from what I could gather there are still signs of it. I could see some ODD symptoms in him too, but why weren't we suggested to seek further help (by his OT or otherwise)? I'm just glad we are on the proper path, I will bring up to the psychologist though his SPD dx.

Our plan of action for DS for the next year is to do the 2x per week preschool, meet with the psychologist & st, and put him into private swimming class to help him learn to swim. While he is missing the educational needs that are taught in traditional preschools, I will be working with him from 9-12p every weekday homeschooling.

Is this ideal? No, because I want a break, but no one ever said it was going to be easy...parenting is fricken hard work!

funchicken · August 2013

I just want to echo Auntie's suggestion about trying to get him in more days in the play-based preschool. My DD was in a 5 day, pre-K program for 2.5 hours/day last year, and her teachers both commented more than once that the kids in the 5 day class were a breeze because they were so used to the routine and so bonded with each other. On days when the lead teacher was out sick and they had a substitute the subs always commented on how the kids made it so easy on them.

With the new baby coming that would give you more of a break, too.

Princess_Lily · August 2013

While I would love to place him in for a 5 day a week, I can't. The teacher who runs it, only does it twice a week... I begged her to make it a 5 day a week program, because she was so good! Lol

funchicken · August 2013

Princess_Lily said:

While I would love to place him in for a 5 day a week, I can't. The teacher who runs it, only does it twice a week... I begged her to make it a 5 day a week program, because she was so good! Lol

Oh that's a bummer! Maybe you can find a mother's helper to give you a break a couple of times a week.

UPDATED: Concerning Discussion with DS. WWYD?

Re: UPDATED: Concerning Discussion with DS. WWYD?

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