APing the difficult baby

PumpkinAndThePeanut · July 2013

Hi there, I'm a lurker on this board. I post a lot on the May 2013 and Multiples boards. I have 3 month old fraternal twin girls, and while AP has its limitations with multiples, I do my best to apply an AP style, for the most part.

One of my girls isn't an "easy" baby, but she responds very well to the AP tools we use - nursing to sleep, babywearing, bedsharing (we've inadvertently started doing this as necessary as she often refuses to settle back into her RnP after nighttime feedings).

Her twin is much more difficult. She doesn't cry - she screams. She goes from content to screaming in a matter of seconds. I dread feeding her, on the breast or a bottle, as she usually fights me the whole time - I usually side-lie nurse them and she curls her body up, kicking me. When taking a bottle, she often turns her head from side to side and I have to chase her around with it, even when I know she's hungry. When I hold her up against my shoulder, she never relaxes against me; she keeps her head held straight up (bobbling around, occasionally head-butting me) and her hands on my shoulder sort of pushing away from me. She doesn't care to be worn. The only way I can soothe her is by swaddling her, giving her a pacifier, and rocking her in the cradle position, patting her butt. I've become afraid of her screaming fits.

The MOTN feedings usually go well, she's pretty relaxed when she nurses and when she's finished, sometimes she'll lay her head on my breast and go to sleep. But just as often, she fusses until I give her a pacifier and put her back in her RnP.

I'm worried that I'm not bonding with her and that we will always have this difficult relationship. I go back to work in 6 weeks and my mom will be caring for the girls all day. I'm sure that my not being around all day is just going to make these feelings worse.

I'd really appreciate any positive stories about parenting a baby like this... TIA...

st.augbride · July 2013

Do you think she has reflux? It sounds like a possibility.

PumpkinAndThePeanut · July 2013

I don't think so, based on how she eats at night and how easily she takes bottles some of the time. She burps easily and rarely spits up. We had to start supplementing in the hospital due to weight loss and as a result, she would get frustrated working for a letdown when nursing and scream until she got a bottle, but we're getting better at that. Usually she gets upset because I've missed an early hunger or sleepy cue (hers aren't that obvious and it's hard to catch them right away with two babies), but she gets so upset so fast and then it's so hard to calm her down. I love her and am doing my best but I feel like my best isn't good enough!

Emerald27 · July 2013

Hmmm...does skin to skin help calm her down? What about skin to skin with her sister (safely, of course)?

st.augbride · July 2013

wmorgan003 said:

I don't think so, based on how she eats at night and how easily she takes bottles some of the time. She burps easily and rarely spits up. We had to start supplementing in the hospital due to weight loss and as a result, she would get frustrated working for a letdown when nursing and scream until she got a bottle, but we're getting better at that. Usually she gets upset because I've missed an early hunger or sleepy cue (hers aren't that obvious and it's hard to catch them right away with two babies), but she gets so upset so fast and then it's so hard to calm her down. I love her and am doing my best but I feel like my best isn't good enough!

Ds behaved very similarly and had terrible reflux. His only easier feeds were in the MOTN. He would thrash his head, would push out, wouldn't be held tightly or stay in the carrier, and would scream his head off. He had horrendous reflux and needed prevacid. It might be worth ruling out as it is very painful.

PumpkinAndThePeanut · July 2013

st.augbride said:

wmorgan003 said:

I don't think so, based on how she eats at night and how easily she takes bottles some of the time. She burps easily and rarely spits up. We had to start supplementing in the hospital due to weight loss and as a result, she would get frustrated working for a letdown when nursing and scream until she got a bottle, but we're getting better at that. Usually she gets upset because I've missed an early hunger or sleepy cue (hers aren't that obvious and it's hard to catch them right away with two babies), but she gets so upset so fast and then it's so hard to calm her down. I love her and am doing my best but I feel like my best isn't good enough!

Ds behaved very similarly and had terrible reflux. His only easier feeds were in the MOTN. He would thrash his head, would push out, wouldn't be held tightly or stay in the carrier, and would scream his head off. He had horrendous reflux and needed prevacid. It might be worth ruling out as it is very painful.

Hmm. How did you know it was reflux? Just by trying the Prevacid and it worked? I'd hate to think she has been in pain and I've been dismissing her cues as just frustration.

PumpkinAndThePeanut · July 2013

Emerald27 said:
Hmmm...does skin to skin help calm her down? What about skin to skin with her sister (safely, of course)?

I don't do much skin to skin as I'm constantly bouncing between the two babies all day and undressing /dressing them is such a hassle - but maybe I should try this!

=Lee=B · July 2013

My LO exhibits the same behaviors, especially when she needs a medication adjustment for her reflux. She has silent reflux so not a lot of spit up since she swallows it all as it comes up. Worth ruling out just in case! My daughter is VERY calm but when her reflux gets bad she SCREAMS, arches her back, screams if you touch her back to burp her, is hard to feed (latching about, on and off the breast, kicking hitting and pushing away while feeding but wanting to feed. When it's really bad she starts to not want to feed. When its really bad she will projectile vomit (out mouth and nose), she gags/chokes on the reflux (especially at night). She foams at the mouth (bubbles), her clothes all smell of stomach acid from the drool. Hiccups all the time.

She had more symptoms but I can't think of them off hand. This is just how my daughter presents her reflux other babies have a different combination of symptoms.

We have her on Zantac which is amazing. We have to up the dose every 2 weeks or her symptoms return. We tried prevacid but she didn't take to it and she became lethargic and stopped smiling.

TiffanyBerry · July 2013

Ditto on the thoughts of reflux. DD had silent reflux as well, and sounded somewhat similar to what you are describing.

PumpkinAndThePeanut · July 2013

Ok, thanks everyone. I will talk to our pedi about it and go from there. I just thought since she takes some feedings well that it couldn't be reflux. Lesson learned!"

TLooney17 · July 2013

st.augbride said:

wmorgan003 said:

I don't think so, based on how she eats at night and how easily she takes bottles some of the time. She burps easily and rarely spits up. We had to start supplementing in the hospital due to weight loss and as a result, she would get frustrated working for a letdown when nursing and scream until she got a bottle, but we're getting better at that. Usually she gets upset because I've missed an early hunger or sleepy cue (hers aren't that obvious and it's hard to catch them right away with two babies), but she gets so upset so fast and then it's so hard to calm her down. I love her and am doing my best but I feel like my best isn't good enough!

Ds behaved very similarly and had terrible reflux. His only easier feeds were in the MOTN. He would thrash his head, would push out, wouldn't be held tightly or stay in the carrier, and would scream his head off. He had horrendous reflux and needed prevacid. It might be worth ruling out as it is very painful.

I agree. My son & nephew had reflux and behaved like this as well. My son never spit up, but he definitely had reflux. The kicking you while side lying and nursing, curling up her body and the turning the head from side to side sound like she is in discomfort. It definitely wouldn't hurt to check into it.

MagickalNarwhal · July 2013

Oh hon, my son was very similar. He was such a high needs guy and even though we went through hell to become parents, I spent many of the early months frustrated, upset, and just NOT enjoying him. I too dreaded feeding him and I dreaded night wakings, when he'd just fuss and cry, never wanting to be snuggled or rocked and never staying asleep. We worked w our ped as he had some digestive issues, and he was an abysmal sleeper. But nothing really helped.

Around 7 months, things shifted a bit, then they shifted way more around 11 months. He is now, at 17 months, a complete delight and I love him so much I can't imagine ever NOT being so attached and in love. He's very attached to me too and he's generally a very happy guy. I just want to say that you can and will bond with both daughters even if it's a struggle with one right now. Be gentle with yourself and her. And yes, see if there are any medical reasons for her challenges, but know that even if there isn't, or even if you can't pinpoint what they are, struggling right now does NOT mean you will always struggle. I felt the same way and had the same fears but they were totally unfounded.

Incidentally, we now have a second kid who is a month old. And I realized that wow I just don't enjoy he newborn phase in general, even tho she's an easier baby overall. I look at her and can't imagine loving her like I love my son sometimes but I know I will and I don't freak myself out going down the am-I-doing-this-ok rabbit hole any more.

Hope this phase passes quickly for you.

PumpkinAndThePeanut · August 2013

MagickalNarwhal said:
Oh hon, my son was very similar. He was such a high needs guy and even though we went through hell to become parents, I spent many of the early months frustrated, upset, and just NOT enjoying him. I too dreaded feeding him and I dreaded night wakings, when he'd just fuss and cry, never wanting to be snuggled or rocked and never staying asleep. We worked w our ped as he had some digestive issues, and he was an abysmal sleeper. But nothing really helped.

Around 7 months, things shifted a bit, then they shifted way more around 11 months. He is now, at 17 months, a complete delight and I love him so much I can't imagine ever NOT being so attached and in love. He's very attached to me too and he's generally a very happy guy. I just want to say that you can and will bond with both daughters even if it's a struggle with one right now. Be gentle with yourself and her. And yes, see if there are any medical reasons for her challenges, but know that even if there isn't, or even if you can't pinpoint what they are, struggling right now does NOT mean you will always struggle. I felt the same way and had the same fears but they were totally unfounded.

Incidentally, we now have a second kid who is a month old. And I realized that wow I just don't enjoy he newborn phase in general, even tho she's an easier baby overall. I look at her and can't imagine loving her like I love my son sometimes but I know I will and I don't freak myself out going down the am-I-doing-this-ok rabbit hole any more.

Hope this phase passes quickly for you.

Thank you so much for this.

Congrats on your little girl!

PumpkinAndThePeanut · August 2013

JollyWife said:
Thank you for posting this. Sounds like DD. We thought it might be silent reflux as well. She's been on Zantac since about 8 weeks. It seems to help but it hasn't been such a drastic change that I'm *sure* that's all it is.

It is so hard. I can't imagine doing it w twins.

Thank you... We started both girls on Zantac on Friday. I haven't seen an improvement yet, but am still hopeful... The last few days have been hell, as the other twin (who usually loves to be nursed to sleep although she spits up a lot) hasn't been spitting up much at all but instead keeps arching her back and pulling away like the reflux has become painful... Hence the Zantac for both.

Ah well, this too shall pass, right!?

st.augbride · August 2013

wmorgan003 said:

Thank you for posting this. Sounds like DD. We thought it might be silent reflux as well. She's been on Zantac since about 8 weeks. It seems to help but it hasn't been such a drastic change that I'm *sure* that's all it is.

It is so hard. I can't imagine doing it w twins.
Thank you... We started both girls on Zantac on Friday. I haven't seen an improvement yet, but am still hopeful... The last few days have been hell, as the other twin (who usually loves to be nursed to sleep although she spits up a lot) hasn't been spitting up much at all but instead keeps arching her back and pulling away like the reflux has become painful... Hence the Zantac for both. Ah well, this too shall pass, right!?

I sure hope it helps. For ds, zantac never helped but prevacid made a BIG difference, so if you don't see improvement, you might want to try prevacid.

philfemgal · August 2013

My 4.5 month old is like this. We describe her as wanting what she wants and letting us know. She screams bloody murder multiple times a day (for instance if my wife rather than I try to put her to bed). Doesn't lie to be worn. We do the swaddle/rock/white noise but she still cries routine here too. She refuses to nap except when held but otherwise is not much of a cuddler. She has a million toys but seems to get bored amazingly easily. She has always had bfing problems, often similar to what you describe and wasn't gaining weight that well at one point (though this could have been a supply problem).

She is on zantac for possible reflux, but mostly as a precaution. The ped was not convinced she actually had reflux and neither are we. Mostly the ped and we just think she is a colicky, fussy, high needs baby. She's been on the meds since around 2 months but they didn't seem to make much of a difference. Just in the past month though some things have been getting better. She is much better about breastfeeding (so long as it is the side-lying position) and now will sometimes nurse to sleep and doze with me in the early mornings in bed while bfing.

Anyway I just wanted to say it might be reflux--but it might not. Or it might be a combo of her temperament and reflux. I don't really have any advice, but just wanted to say I've been there too. I got soooo tired of hearing the same advice over and over that just never was going to work for her--i.e. babywearing, bedsharing, comfort nursing, swing, etc.

maven212 · August 2013

This is exactly what my refluxy baby did - content to screaming, but most especially, the throwing of her head around during a feeding. I spoke to a least three doctors before she started spitting up entire meals and an ER doctor diagnosed it as reflux. She was prescribed zantac and I really wish we had gotten the diagnoses and drug sooner. It made all the difference. She was screaming out of pain and hunger, poor gal. We did a few positional things as well, like held her upright after feedings, but honestly, the drug was really necessary. If you haven't discussed relux as a possibility with your doc, I would book an appointment and bring it up. It is a really common ailment and that frantic head shaking during feedings is a classic sign, apparently.

Best wishes for you and your LOs.

maven212 · August 2013

Clearly I needed to read the whole thread. It took about a week for the zantac to take full effect. Some babies need something that inhibits acid pump instead, like, Prevacid - so if you don't see an improvement in the coming weeks, that might be an option.

Our baby was also described as colicky - extremely colicky. With about 4 months between me and the endpoint, I now think that about 90% of the inconsolable, hysterical 13+ hours of screaming was reflux related. It is often silent, and therefore, deceptive. During the really heady days, between week 9 and 16, it was really hard to get the shrug and the "it will end by month 4" from doctors. "That's all well and good, but WTH am I supposed to do today" I'd think.

Like others in this discussion I was given a lot of advice about baby wearing, swaddling and comfort nursing and it was super frustrating. For one,she couldn't nurse. She hit a point where she couldn't eat. For two, her reflux was bad enough that particular positions etc. just hurt...as far as I can tell. It was so heartbreaking because she was in pain, and because, you know, i wanted to wear my baby. I wanted to side nurse. i wanted to do the things people suggested. They seem to have aggravate her problem and she simply hysterically screamed when I tried.

The bottom line was she had a morphological problem, and she needed to grow. The medication helped reduce the reflux, but what she really needed was to get bigger. Longest 4 month period of my life. Well meaning people can make the situation a little bit more emotionally taxing as well. They don't mean to, but they can.The bottom line is, if you haven't had a kid with this condition it is really hard to understand what the situation is like. It's like trying to describe what a cat allergy feels like to someone who has no environmental allergies. They just don't get it. It isn't their fault, but they don't understand what is needed or how isolating the inconsolable screaming that comes with this feels.

Not to complain - I mean, thank goodness for anyone who is willing to take time out to help.

Anyway, all of this to say many of us on TB have been where you are right now. The site is loaded with people who understand how having a kid with reflux and colic feels, and who have tried many options to ease these conditions. Best wishes to you and post again with update if you can.

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