WDYT: Trayvon Martin

bigbootyjudi · July 2013

Well, WDYT? Do you think Zimmerman is guilty? What do you think will be the verdict?

Here's my FFFC: I think that if it weren't for race, this case wouldn't have gotten a third of the attention it has. I'm also sick of the black vs. white/ argument, especially because Zimmerman isn't white.

I don't think, after looking through the evidence photos and watching the trial, that Zimmerman is guilty. I think that because of pressure from the community and the race issue, he'll be found guilty.

If you need some background information, here's some links:

Evidence photos (there are photos of the body, covered by a tarp, but you can see TM's leg - which isn't bloody or anything): https://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/06/03/trayvon-martin-crime-scene-evidence-photos-george-zimmerman

A run-down of the case: https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/05/us/trayvon-martin-shooting-fast-facts

The defense's opening statements: https://newsfeed.time.com/2013/06/24/trayvon-martin-case-the-defense-opens/

The prosecution's: https://newsfeed.time.com/2013/06/24/trayvon-martin-trial-the-prosecution-opens/

Closing: https://www.cnn.com/2013/07/12/justice/zimmerman-trial/index.html

Rhomonk · July 2013

I think he will walk. The evidence does not show him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

I do think he is guilty of being a douchecanoe, but we can't go to jail for that, now can we?

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

I think he's guilty but am doubtful he will be found guilty. You can be racist if you're not white and the way he spoke in the 911 call clearly shows he was being racist. The poor kid had tea and skittles on him. He may well have been being loud and obnoxious but that's what teenagers do. Would he still be with us if he were another race? Would this guy just have yelled at him and threatened to call the cops? I think so.

bigbootyjudi · July 2013

Baker_Bride:
I think he's guilty but am doubtful he will be found guilty. You can be racist if you're not white and the way he spoke in the 911 call clearly shows he was being racist. The poor kid had tea and skittles on him. He may well have been being loud and obnoxious but that's what teenagers do. Would he still be with us if he were another race? Would this guy just have yelled at him and threatened to call the cops? I think so.

ITA with the bolded, but the "community" as a whole is making it into a black vs. white thing, at least over here. I work with mainly AA people and all I keep hearing is, "Well, because he's white he'll get away with it...they always do...etc."

He said he was sick of these "assholes", referring to teenagers (according to the defense), not sick of black kids. I'm sick of the little white 10 year old across the street from me and if I saw him running across my grass, like he does every friggin' day, I'd probably say, "This ***! I'm so sick of him being able to run across my grass!" It doesn't have anything to do with his color and it doesn't mean that I have intentions to shoot him if I decide to confront him about it.

I don't think he set out to do anything. He called because someone was walking around with a hood on in the pouring rain, pacing over the same area. I would have too.

The 9-1-1 call for anyone that is curious: https://www.wftv.com/videos/news/raw-911-call-zimmerman-made-to-sanford-police/vGZq9/

CoUnTryBB1 · July 2013

I think that he is guilty as well but I also don't think he will be found guilty of anything major. I don't even know if it was a race issue and wish this world would just get past the race issues altogether but I know that is pie in the sky. I think Zimmerman completely overstepped his rights under the gun laws. I don't feel that TM was threatining him so that he needed to use deadly force in any shape or form. I also don't think Zimmerman should ever be able to possess any sort of firearm for the remainder of his life.

britvahok · July 2013

CoUnTryBB1:
I think that he is guilty as well but I also don't think he will be found guilty of anything major. I don't even know if it was a race issue and wish this world would just get past the race issues altogether but I know that is pie in the sky. I think Zimmerman completely overstepped his rights under the gun laws. I don't feel that TM was threatining him so that he needed to use deadly force in any shape or form. I also don't think Zimmerman should ever be able to possess any sort of firearm for the remainder of his life.

I agree with this.

britvahok · July 2013

Baker_Bride:
I think he's guilty but am doubtful he will be found guilty. You can be racist if you're not white and the way he spoke in the 911 call clearly shows he was being racist. The poor kid had tea and skittles on him. He may well have been being loud and obnoxious but that's what teenagers do. Would he still be with us if he were another race? Would this guy just have yelled at him and threatened to call the cops? I think so.

Very well said BB.

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

bigbootyjudi:
Baker_Bride:
I think he's guilty but am doubtful he will be found guilty. You can be racist if you're not white and the way he spoke in the 911 call clearly shows he was being racist. The poor kid had tea and skittles on him. He may well have been being loud and obnoxious but that's what teenagers do. Would he still be with us if he were another race? Would this guy just have yelled at him and threatened to call the cops? I think so.
ITA with the bolded, but the "community" as a whole is making it into a black vs. white thing, at least over here. I work with mainly AA people and all I keep hearing is, "Well, because he's white he'll get away with it...they always do...etc."
He said he was sick of these "assholes", referring to teenagers (according to the defense), not sick of black kids. I'm sick of the little white 10 year old across the street from me and if I saw him running across my grass, like he does every friggin' day, I'd probably say, "This ***! I'm so sick of him being able to run across my grass!" It doesn't have anything to do with his color and it doesn't mean that I have intentions to shoot him if I decide to confront him about it.
I don't think he set out to do anything. He called because someone was walking around with a hood on in the pouring rain, pacing over the same area. I would have too.
The 9-1-1 call for anyone that is curious: https://www.wftv.com/videos/news/raw-911-call-zimmerman-made-to-sanford-police/vGZq9/

Right so he followed him. And he hadn't broken into his house so no breaking and entering. He chased this poor kid down when the dispatcher said not to. I also was disgusted with him saying "They always get away." Who are "they"?

And if anyone deserved to get shot, he did because he was the one doing the chasing so that's where the self defense would be.

mamahawk12 · July 2013

I think he made some really bad decisions. I don't think it was premeditated murder and I don't think he'll be convicted of that. The courts approved the option for the jury to consider a lesser charge (manslaughter) and I can see that happening. He shouldn't have followed him or confronted him, but he wouldn't have fired his weapon had he not been getting the crap beat out of him - that alone negates their 1st degree claim.

While the whole thing is tragic and there were definitely some racial factors to consider, I got really tired of people trying to portray TM as some innocent little kid - as the trial proved to be an extremely inaccurate representation.

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

kikimo327:
Wait... BBJ... are you saying that you think Zimmerman didn't overreact? There is a lot of racial tension between the Hispanic/Latino and African American community. I think race plays into this. I also think Zimmerman was trigger happy.

Truth.

"They" always get away. It sounds to me like he has chased a few other kids down before. Like, what an absolute lunatic for taking matters into his own hands. There's self defense and there's thinking you're a cop.

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

meaknigh:
I think he made some really bad decisions. I don't think it was premeditated murder and I don't think he'll be convicted of that. The courts approved the option for the jury to consider a lesser charge (manslaughter) and I can see that happening. He shouldn't have followed him or confronted him, but he wouldn't have fired his weapon had he not been getting the crap beat out of him - that alone negates their 1st degree claim.
While the whole thing is tragic and there were definitely some racial factors to consider, I got really tired of people trying to portray TM as some innocent little kid - as the trial proved to be an extremely inaccurate representation.

But the bottom line is he isn't the cops, he was absolutely not within his rights for self defense since HE was the one who chased him down and it really doesn't matter what this kid was up to because civilians are not within the law to police matters that aren't to do with them.

mamahawk12 · July 2013

Baker_Bride:
meaknigh:
I think he made some really bad decisions. I don't think it was premeditated murder and I don't think he'll be convicted of that. The courts approved the option for the jury to consider a lesser charge (manslaughter) and I can see that happening. He shouldn't have followed him or confronted him, but he wouldn't have fired his weapon had he not been getting the crap beat out of him - that alone negates their 1st degree claim.
While the whole thing is tragic and there were definitely some racial factors to consider, I got really tired of people trying to portray TM as some innocent little kid - as the trial proved to be an extremely inaccurate representation.
But the bottom line is he isn't the cops, he was absolutely not within his rights for self defense since HE was the one who chased him down and it really doesn't matter what this kid was up to because civilians are not within the law to police matters that aren't to do with them.

I agree. But I don't believe he followed him and confronted him with the intention of killing him, which is the charge the prosecution is going after.

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

meaknigh:
Baker_Bride:
meaknigh:
I think he made some really bad decisions. I don't think it was premeditated murder and I don't think he'll be convicted of that. The courts approved the option for the jury to consider a lesser charge (manslaughter) and I can see that happening. He shouldn't have followed him or confronted him, but he wouldn't have fired his weapon had he not been getting the crap beat out of him - that alone negates their 1st degree claim.
While the whole thing is tragic and there were definitely some racial factors to consider, I got really tired of people trying to portray TM as some innocent little kid - as the trial proved to be an extremely inaccurate representation.
But the bottom line is he isn't the cops, he was absolutely not within his rights for self defense since HE was the one who chased him down and it really doesn't matter what this kid was up to because civilians are not within the law to police matters that aren't to do with them.
I agree. But I don't believe he followed him and confronted him with the intention of killing him, which is the charge the prosecution is going after.

Why else follow him? That, to me, is the works of a criminal.

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

kikimo327:
Baker_Bride:
meaknigh:
Baker_Bride:
meaknigh:
I think he made some really bad decisions. I don't think it was premeditated murder and I don't think he'll be convicted of that. The courts approved the option for the jury to consider a lesser charge (manslaughter) and I can see that happening. He shouldn't have followed him or confronted him, but he wouldn't have fired his weapon had he not been getting the crap beat out of him - that alone negates their 1st degree claim.
While the whole thing is tragic and there were definitely some racial factors to consider, I got really tired of people trying to portray TM as some innocent little kid - as the trial proved to be an extremely inaccurate representation.
But the bottom line is he isn't the cops, he was absolutely not within his rights for self defense since HE was the one who chased him down and it really doesn't matter what this kid was up to because civilians are not within the law to police matters that aren't to do with them.
I agree. But I don't believe he followed him and confronted him with the intention of killing him, which is the charge the prosecution is going after.
Why else follow him? That, to me, is the works of a criminal.
I think the unfortunate truth is that we will never know what really happened. Trayvon was a 17 year old young man. I can only imagine what that confrontation really was like.
DH made a good point the other day... if Zimmerman is saying that Trayvon pinned him to the ground and beat his head, how hard is it to imagine that Z attacked him and they rolled around a bit?

But Trayvon would be within his rights to defend himself in that instance. Some guy was chasing him.

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

Anyway, this is probably yet another dead horse Smile

Who knows what the kid was doing but her certainly was't doing anything that merited a civilian taking matters into his own hands. That isn't what the second amendment is there for.

AmySmolos · July 2013

I don't think he's guilty. Florida has the law to use deadly force if you feel threatened and its hard to prove or disprove if someone feels threatened. I think it's tragic and could have been prevented but do I think Zimmerman is guilty of second degree murder, no. If a state this stand your ground law then it is up to the state to prove their case that Zimmerman did not feel threatened and that is where I think he will walk. Again I think what happened is tragic and could have been prevented but I don't think he acted outside of the law.

Tula214 · July 2013

I don't think he's guilty. There's no laws in florida specifically for neighborhood watch. Zimmerman didn't break any laws approaching Trayvon Martin. I think Trayvon was high, paranoid, and reacted to Zimmerman.

Edited

Also , in Florida if you feel at all threatened, retaliation is self defense if you can prove they put up a fight. The laws here are whack.

AmySmolos · July 2013

meaknigh:
Baker_Bride:
meaknigh:
I think he made some really bad decisions. I don't think it was premeditated murder and I don't think he'll be convicted of that. The courts approved the option for the jury to consider a lesser charge (manslaughter) and I can see that happening. He shouldn't have followed him or confronted him, but he wouldn't have fired his weapon had he not been getting the crap beat out of him - that alone negates their 1st degree claim.
While the whole thing is tragic and there were definitely some racial factors to consider, I got really tired of people trying to portray TM as some innocent little kid - as the trial proved to be an extremely inaccurate representation.
But the bottom line is he isn't the cops, he was absolutely not within his rights for self defense since HE was the one who chased him down and it really doesn't matter what this kid was up to because civilians are not within the law to police matters that aren't to do with them.  
I agree. But I don't believe he followed him and confronted him with the intention of killing him, which is the charge the prosecution is going after. 

Agree. Should he have not followed him and left it to the police? Probably. But did he intentionally confront him thinking he could always kill him if...? Probably not. Again he was carrying a weapon legally and Florida law permits "standing his ground." It sucks and its tragic but I don't think it makes him a murderer.

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

kikimo327:
Tula214:
I don't think he's guilty. There's no laws in florida specifically for neighborhood watch. Zimmerman didn't break any laws approaching Trayvon Martin. I think Trayvon was high, paranoid, and reacted to Zimmerman.

Edited

Also , in Florida if you feel at all threatened, retaliation is self defense if you can prove they put up a fight. The laws here are whack.
You think he was high?  Any evidence of this? 

Zimmerman would certainly want to use that as evidence.

jessalynn521 · July 2013

Honestly to me I look at it and think reckless homicide. This is without really understanding the direct meaning of charges, and just focusing on the meaning of the words. To me, Zimmerman's reckless behavior in following Trayvon Martin when being directly told not to led to the eventual death of a 17 year old. Self defense or not, if Zimmerman felt it important enough to call the authorities he should have listened to what he was told to do. He wouldn't be in any of this mess if he had just left the law enforcement up to the police. I mean, he was just neighborhood watch. Come on.

mamahawk12 · July 2013

kikimo327:
Tula214:
I don't think he's guilty. There's no laws in florida specifically for neighborhood watch. Zimmerman didn't break any laws approaching Trayvon Martin. I think Trayvon was high, paranoid, and reacted to Zimmerman. Edited Also , in Florida if you feel at all threatened, retaliation is self defense if you can prove they put up a fight. The laws here are whack.
You think he was high? Any evidence of this?

The defense is arguing that he was high at the time of the attack. His blood tested positive for THC - which obviously doesn't prove the time of use, but they're going with it.

Rhomonk · July 2013

Cutting the quote tree...

Traces of marijuana was found in Martin's system, but it was a small amount. Basically, he (Martin) was probably smoking pot a couple of days before the incident.

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

Scout2005:
I don't care if Trayvon Martin was high off his , Zimmerman had NO reason to follow him after being TOLD not to by the 911 operator. You don't get to follow someone, confront them and them claim self defense when you SHOOT THEM. Especially a 17 year old kid. Did you see the ME photo of that poor child's body?nbsp;Zimmerman can rot in hell.nbsp; Martin didn't go after Zimmerman. He didn't challenge him, attack him
out of no where, break into his house, vandalize his or anyone else's
property. He walked through a neighborhood.nbsp;nbsp; And that effing psycho with delusions of grandeur and a gun ended Martin's life. After he followed him, harassed him and challenged him with zero right to do so. This whole thing is BS.nbsp;

Preach.

Also, have you all done pot? It makes one way too lazy to get into it with people. Just saying.

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

And if he really was stoned, how on earth was he going to throw someone with 80 lbs on him? Haven't you guys seen Towelie?

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

Scout2005:
The pot thing is nothing but victim blaming and it really, really, really pisses me off.

Oh I agree. I just mean it doesn't exactly cause people to behave violently. I really shouldn't read about this stuff. I'm going to get high blood pressure.

Tula214 · July 2013

To clarify, I don't think what he did was right. Neighborhood watch as a whole makes me mad. Legally, I don't think he's going to be guilty. Like a said, Florida has some ridiculous laws.

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

Gang violence is a completely different ball of wax and has nothing to do with this case. People in gangs know they are in gangs and are putting themselves in dangerous situations knowingly. It is not always willfully, but it is a very different matter than killing a teenage kid who may have been loud, obnoxious, rude and high. That is a case for calling about noise disturbance and leave it at that.

I know the laws in FL are tricky and they are very much in favor of self defense, but I hardly believe a teenager on pot could take down a man much larger than him especially since I doubt he was expecting to be racially profiled by a civilian. I just doubt it and have no sympathy whatsoever for Zimmerman. I hope he learns what it means to be racially profiled in prison.

bigbootyjudi · July 2013

I agree with Mea. Whether or not he felt threatened cannot be proven, therefore he would be found not guilty. It has to be proven BEYOND a reasonable doubt and it can't be that he set out to kill this boy.

And I'm sure Zimmerman knows what it means to be racially profiled, as I've seen some absolutely disgraceful things been done and said to SO that wouldn't have been if he weren't Mexican. It's no coincidence that every.single.time we cross the border and he's driving, we get pulled into inspection...every time. But, when I drive, we never do. We've crossed the border at least 50 times.

Obviously, he shot him, but the circumstances under which he did can't be proven. Weight doesn't matter...I have 150 pound female patients who could easily take me and I'm 40 pounds heavier. Other things play into this; stamina, quickness, etc. Pot doesn't matter either. But, just because the kid only had skittles and tea on him doesn't mean he was "harmless."

NewMommyKelsey · July 2013

bigbootyjudi:
Baker_Bride:
I think he's guilty but am doubtful he will be found guilty. You can be racist if you're not white and the way he spoke in the 911 call clearly shows he was being racist. The poor kid had tea and skittles on him. He may well have been being loud and obnoxious but that's what teenagers do. Would he still be with us if he were another race? Would this guy just have yelled at him and threatened to call the cops? I think so.
ITA with the bolded, but the "community" as a whole is making it into a black vs. white thing, at least over here. I work with mainly AA people and all I keep hearing is, "Well, because he's white he'll get away with it...they always do...etc."
He said he was sick of these "assholes", referring to teenagers (according to the defense), not sick of black kids. I'm sick of the little white 10 year old across the street from me and if I saw him running across my grass, like he does every friggin' day, I'd probably say, "This ***! I'm so sick of him being able to run across my grass!" It doesn't have anything to do with his color and it doesn't mean that I have intentions to shoot him if I decide to confront him about it.
I don't think he set out to do anything. He called because someone was walking around with a hood on in the pouring rain, pacing over the same area. I would have too.
The 9-1-1 call for anyone that is curious: https://www.wftv.com/videos/news/raw-911-call-zimmerman-made-to-sanford-police/vGZq9/

I agree with you BBJ....

I think Z isn't completely innocent but if this was two black people or two white people the media wouldn't be all over it. Sanford is not far from me at all. Actually the company I work for treats a lake in that community.

Quick question though.... has anyone seen T. Martin's parents upset? If that was my child I would be a mess yet I haven't seen his mother shed one tear.

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

NewMommyKelsey:
bigbootyjudi:
Baker_Bride:
I think he's guilty but am doubtful he will be found guilty. You can be racist if you're not white and the way he spoke in the 911 call clearly shows he was being racist. The poor kid had tea and skittles on him. He may well have been being loud and obnoxious but that's what teenagers do. Would he still be with us if he were another race? Would this guy just have yelled at him and threatened to call the cops? I think so.
ITA with the bolded, but the "community" as a whole is making it into a black vs. white thing, at least over here. I work with mainly AA people and all I keep hearing is, "Well, because he's white he'll get away with it...they always do...etc."
He said he was sick of these "assholes", referring to teenagers (according to the defense), not sick of black kids. I'm sick of the little white 10 year old across the street from me and if I saw him running across my grass, like he does every friggin' day, I'd probably say, "This ***! I'm so sick of him being able to run across my grass!" It doesn't have anything to do with his color and it doesn't mean that I have intentions to shoot him if I decide to confront him about it.
I don't think he set out to do anything. He called because someone was walking around with a hood on in the pouring rain, pacing over the same area. I would have too.
The 9-1-1 call for anyone that is curious:  https://www.wftv.com/videos/news/raw-911-call-zimmerman-made-to-sanford-police/vGZq9/
 I agree with you BBJ....
I think Z  isn't completely innocent but if this was two black people or two white people the media wouldn't be all over it.  Sanford is not far from me at all. Actually the company I work for treats a lake in that community. 

Quick question though.... has anyone seen T. Martin's parents upset? If that was my child I would be a mess yet I haven't seen his mother shed one tear.

I think it's really bold to insult a mother's reaction to losing her son. Lucky for you, you don't know how you'd react as you've never been there.

MoFree · July 2013

I agree with everything BB, Lili and Scout have expressed.
Does anyone know who is paying for Zimmerman's defense because he and his family certainly can't afford their fees.

NewMommyKelsey · July 2013

It is a very bold statement on my part. I see ton's of people flocking the streets in South Florida today in the rain "Justice for Trayvon" and "Zimmerman is racist cracker". I don't think Zimmerman was racist and in fact I would have called the police if I saw a person (of any color) looking suspicious, esp. if burglary's were happening all the time. I don't think it was premeditated murder and I don't think he should be convicted of that. Personally, I am tired of seeing everyone bring up the race card and how poor Trayvon was such an innocent child. I don't think by any mean's he should have been shot. Do I think that Zimmerman should have followed Trayvon? No, I don't. However, would have Zimmerman fired his weapon had he not been getting the crap beat out of him? While I do believe this is a tragic innocent I don't view Trayvon Martin as a child but a young adult.

To touch on the crime patrol having a "gun" - Florida you can have a concealed weapons permit. I don't think so much that a person of crime patrol is allowed to carry as much as it is your right to carry a firearm as long as it is concealed in the state of Florida. Zimmerman went through a class and background check to be able to carry a firearm. The law in FL states that if you feel threatened than you can act in self defense.

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

NewMommyKelsey:
It is a very bold statement on my part. I see ton's of people flocking the streets in South Florida today in the rain "Justice for Trayvon" and "Zimmerman is racist cracker". I don't think Zimmerman was racist and in fact I would have called the police if I saw a person of any color looking suspicious, esp. if burglary's were happening all the time. I don't think it was premeditated murder and I don't think he should be convicted of that. Personally, I am tired of seeing everyone bring up the race card and how poor Trayvon was such an innocent child. I don't think by any mean's he should have been shot. nbsp;Do I think that Zimmerman should have followed Trayvon? No, I don't. However, would have Zimmerman fired his weapon had he not been getting the crap beat out of him? While I do believe this is a tragic innocent I don't view Trayvon Martin as a child but a young adult.nbsp;To touch on the crime patrol having a "gun" Florida you can have a concealed weapons permit. I don't think so much that a person of crime patrol is allowed to carry as much as it is your right to carry a firearm as long as it is concealed in the state of Florida. Zimmerman went through a class and background check to be able to carry a firearm. The law in FL states that if you feel threatened than you can act in self defense.nbsp;nbsp;

Not one ounce of this justifies insulting a grieving mother.

latnprincess · July 2013

Is he guilty of manslaughter? Unfortunately, yes. But it definitely wasn't a pre-mediated racial murder though. I think he should have stayed his post when the 911 person said "do not follow him". That was his BIG mistake that led to the unfortunate series of events. And to me that's what it basically boils down to, an unfortunate series of events. I think he was trying to be a hero. I can't say Trayvon was or wasn't guilty of anything before he followed him down. I'll never know. But NOW Zimmerman is guilt of manslaughter. He killed another human being who was not armed. Those are the facts. I think he will be found guilty. Do I think he's a bad person? No, I don't. Nothing I've read or heard has led me to believe that. The intent to kill was not there! Maybe he intended to just injure him and slow him down. But I don't think he meant to kill him at all. He was doing his job of defending and protecting, but it went wrong. He made a dumb mistake. He should have stayed his post.

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