Vaccinating: Discuss.

bigbootyjudi · July 2013

A friend of me, who is very provaccine,just posted this on good ole' FB: "Car seat laws were made after years worth of research, to keep our children safe. You can be arrested for not following these guidelines that have been provided for us through said research. Your child is "your" child, but this is a nonnegotiable safety issue. So, why isn't it the same for vaccines? Years of research to give you information on how to keep your children safe and you are able to choose whether or not to ignore it? This seems off to me."

Discuss. WDYT? Do you agree? Are the two even comparable?

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

You could argue medical neglect l suppose, which is a punishable offense. I got into it with people I nannied for because they were very holistic and they once didn't treat their kids for strep. I get that your body can fight off many illnesses that Americans treat with antibiotics but strep can turn nasty and deadly. One of them got scarlet fever, thank God it wasn't rheumatic fever.

In both cases, I do think you're endangering your child but rf vs ff is only an issue of laziness. Vaccines are tricky because people honestly believe they are poisoning their children. It would be a lot harder to get it passed, I bet.

Edited. I pressed post before I was done.

piphigirl · July 2013

On the one hand, I'm a big fan of personal liberty. I dislike laws that tell people what do do in their private lives.

On the other, it sucks when children (like the little baby in Michigan last year) get sick and even die because other, nonvaccinated children spread things like pertussis. It's ridiculous when these diseases had basically been eradicated in our country.

So I am torn and this is a pointless post!

MommyMelRN · July 2013

I'll bite. I'll start by saying that we vaccinate, but we weren't so quick to just go ahead and do it. I think there is a huge difference between carseats and vaccinations. Carseats are external, you don't need to inject or ingest chemicals or biologic matter in order to use them. Wether we like it or not, vaccines come with risks, up to and including the rare, but very real risk of death.

Cheerilee · July 2013

MommyMelRN:
I'll bite. I'll start by saying that we vaccinate, but we weren't so quick to just go ahead and do it. I think there is a huge difference between carseats and vaccinations. Carseats are external, you don't need to inject or ingest chemicals or biologic matter in order to use them. Whether we like it or not, vaccines come with risks, up to and including the rare, but very real risk of death.

I agree with this.

lady_tytah · July 2013

Anything medical comes with risks. Medicine changes. If anything the increase in previously eradicated diseases process why we need ppl to understand vax'ing is important.
Car seats protect from other ppl's bad choices. Human error.
I believe that yes its vary similar. We have vax for a reason....tons of medical research.

mamahawk12 · July 2013

I agree that there should be much more strict regulations on vaccination. If you don't put your kid in a car seat correctly, you are endangering your child. If you don't vaccinate your child, you are endangering your child and anyone else who may be immune suppressed. I'm of the opinion that not vaccinating your children is absolutely negligent parenting. If it were *my* choice, I'd love to see laws in place. Will that ever happen? Not in the US.

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

I think a good compromise for me is, you don't vaccinate, you don't put your kid in the public school system (or private if the private school so chooses). No more waivers allowed.

mamahawk12 · July 2013

Baker_Bride:
I think a good compromise for me is, you don't vaccinate, you don't put your kid in the public school system (or private if the private school so chooses). No more waivers allowed.

I agree 100%. It's pointless to put the regulation in place if you grant a waiver for every reason imaginable.

cedenton · July 2013

Baker_Bride:
I think a good compromise for me is, you don't vaccinate, you don't put your kid in the public school system (or private if the private school so chooses). No more waivers allowed.

This.

I can't get behind making it a law to vaccinate only because I think it would weaken abortion law. If we allow them to dictate one thing we should/shouldn't do to our body why not another. Slippery slope.

Cheerilee · July 2013

cedenton:
Baker_Bride:
I think a good compromise for me is, you don't vaccinate, you don't put your kid in the public school system (or private if the private school so chooses). No more waivers allowed.
This.
I can't get behind making it a law to vaccinate only because I think it would weaken abortion law. If we allow them to dictate one thing we should/shouldn't do to our body why not another. Slippery slope.

In reply to Baker's post: You punish the kids for the parents' choice. I struggle with that. We can compare that to the "Dream Act" crud - let the kids who were brought over illegally because it was their parents that made the decision to cross the border. If those kids are homeschooled because their parents chose not to vax, they have less of a chance getting a decent education - setting them further behind in life. They are then ONLY exposed to their parents' point of view (indoctrinated) rather than that of teachers and peers.

In response to Cedenton's post: I don't find that a direct comparison because those who abort are not denied access to public institutions based on their decision while a non vacc'ed child would be.

Then, what do you do with the kids who CANNOT be vaccinated for medical reasons (like me)?? Do we not get to go to school? Are we hidden away in special education? What's the answer there?

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

Cheerilee, you make a good point. Perhaps, it should just require more proof that there's a valid reason not to?

I processed new students at my preschool last summer because it was hot and my director thought I'd go into preterm labor if I went outside with my class. It is so easy not to have to vaccinate. This school is for ages 2 to 5. I worry about the little two year olds who have only been with Mom all of a sudden exposed to unvaccinated kids. And the parents don't know they are exposing their kids. It doesn't sit well with me.

smile50208 · July 2013

Baker_Bride:
I think a good compromise for me is, you don't vaccinate, you don't put your kid in the public school system (or private if the private school so chooses). No more waivers allowed.

Great idea! I really like this concept.

I am pro-vaccine. It worried me when last month there was a measles outbreak near by.

I understand the government shouldn't meddle with my life and body. But what gives you the right to put my child in danger? It isn't just about you or your child but everyone he/she comes into contact with.

britvahok · July 2013

meaknigh:
I agree that there should be much more strict regulations on vaccination. If you don't put your kid in a car seat correctly, you are endangering your child. If you don't vaccinate your child, you are endangering your child and anyone else who may be immune suppressed. I'm of the opinion that not vaccinating your children is absolutely negligent parenting. If it were *my* choice, I'd love to see laws in place. Will that ever happen? Not in the US.

I agree with this. But also understand that this will not happen in the US.

Cheerilee · July 2013

I'd love to know how many people really don't vaccinate. Hard numbers.

I would hope that schools would allow a non vacc'ed child in for medical reasons. However, I could see that going down the drain with religious reasons. It's not that hard to get a doctor to write a note if your doctor is already on board with not vaccinating. I just don't think a law or denying an education to these kids is the answer.

I should add that I am pro vaccine for anyone who doesn't know me. DH was not until I convinced him vaccines did not cause DSS's autism. DSS's bio mom still believes that's the cause. The only reason her other kids are vacc'ed is they were in state custody for 2 years.

Cheerilee · July 2013

Baker_Bride:
Cheerilee, you make a good point. Perhaps, it should just require more proof that there's a valid reason not to?

I processed new students at my preschool last summer because it was hot and my director thought I'd go into preterm labor if I went outside with my class. It is so easy not to have to vaccinate. This school is for ages 2 to 5. I worry about the little two year olds who have only been with Mom all of a sudden exposed to unvaccinated kids. And the parents don't know they are exposing their kids. It doesn't sit well with me.

It's way to easy to claim religious reasons. I think there should be hard proof of following the religious beliefs. DH signed that waiver every year for DSS and I promise you it was falsely done. I refused to sign it for him. His son, his belief, his lie. DD was born and DSS was vacc'ed. No more waiver.

Tula214 · July 2013

Linzlu214, in NJ I had to have the full hep B vaccine before entering 6th grade. If I didn't have it, I didn't go to public school. Along with a few other vaccs.

I agree with [I think it was] BDL. It's a slippery slope to try forcing people to inject something into their bodies. Though, I wish we could when it came to vaccines. Except for in cases with medical exemptions.

mamahawk12 · July 2013

Linzlu214:
Riding in a car is a privilege and not a right. For example, all drivers must be licensed, in California all occupants must wear seatbelts, and no one can be drinking alcohol in the car. The state already heavily regulates this area. Although I vaccinate, it is not as clear cut. What do you do about new/optional vaccines like chicken pox? I had chicken pox and I lived. What about hep B that almost no elementary school kids will get? Only get through iv drug use and promiscuous sex. I just don't think it's something the govt can force, unless you want to enroll your kid in a public school. Then it's more like the car analogy because that's a privilege.

And you win the ignorant comment of the day award.

britvahok · July 2013

Linzlu214:
Riding in a car is a privilege and not a right. For example, all drivers must be licensed, in California all occupants must wear seatbelts, and no one can be drinking alcohol in the car. The state already heavily regulates this area. Although I vaccinate, it is not as clear cut. What do you do about new/optional vaccines like chicken pox? I had chicken pox and I lived. What about hep B that almost no elementary school kids will get? Only get through iv drug use and promiscuous sex. I just don't think it's something the govt can force, unless you want to enroll your kid in a public school. Then it's more like the car analogy because that's a privilege.

You can't be serious...

britvahok · July 2013

bb

Tula214 · July 2013

meaknigh:
Linzlu214:
Riding in a car is a privilege and not a right. For example, all drivers must be licensed, in California all occupants must wear seatbelts, and no one can be drinking alcohol in the car. The state already heavily regulates this area.

Although I vaccinate, it is not as clear cut. What do you do about new/optional vaccines like chicken pox? I had chicken pox and I lived. What about hep B that almost no elementary school kids will get? Only get through iv drug use and promiscuous sex. I just don't think it's something the govt can force, unless you want to enroll your kid in a public school. Then it's more like the car analogy because that's a privilege.
And you win the ignorant comment of the day award. 

Just reread that after coffee and shower. Whaaaattttt? There always has to be that one....

lady_tytah · July 2013

Cheerilee:
I'd love to know how many people really don't vaccinate. Hard numbers.

I would hope that schools would allow a non vacc'ed child in for medical reasons. However, I could see that going down the drain with religious reasons. It's not that hard to get a doctor to write a note if your doctor is already on board with not vaccinating. I just don't think a law or denying an education to these kids is the answer.

I should add that I am pro vaccine for anyone who doesn't know me. DH was not until I convinced him vaccines did not cause DSS's autism. DSS's bio mom still believes that's the cause. The only reason her other kids are vacc'ed is they were in state custody for 2 years.

One of my fellow Tiffany's daughter has an adrenal disease that prevents her from getting certain vax. She has two other kids. Her other two have to be careful what vax they get because they could put her other child in the hospital. In these instances, there is medical reasons and are allowed in public school. The whole religious standpoint would get flushed. If a doctor signs off on it knowing that it would be detrimental to the child in the end that's puts the doctor in trouble. Doctors are there to look after the child not the parents' whim. JW's don't believer in blood transfusions that's a personal choice and when their child is in a life threatening situation will have to deal with the law if the child should die. Its about the greater good. No different than Germany banning circ'img because the facts outweighed the good for most cases. They have a strict exemption laws in place to allow it.

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

Tula214:
meaknigh:
Linzlu214:
Riding in a car is a privilege and not a right. For example, all drivers must be licensed, in California all occupants must wear seatbelts, and no one can be drinking alcohol in the car. The state already heavily regulates this area.

Although I vaccinate, it is not as clear cut. What do you do about new/optional vaccines like chicken pox? I had chicken pox and I lived. What about hep B that almost no elementary school kids will get? Only get through iv drug use and promiscuous sex. I just don't think it's something the govt can force, unless you want to enroll your kid in a public school. Then it's more like the car analogy because that's a privilege.
And you win the ignorant comment of the day award. 

Just reread that after coffee and shower. Whaaaattttt? There always has to be that one....

Right? And always a lurker.

hsilverm · July 2013

I am very proactive for both carseat safety and the "necessary" vaccines ( always choosing Thymerosal free). I know many feel strongly about getting ALL vaccines done on schedule at once bc the research says it is all safe but you really can't argue that there aren't adverse side effects in some. I chose to vaccinate Logan with the mandatory vaccines (without Thymerosal) but follow an every month spread out schedule vs all at once every other month the first year. My brother and I had severe side effects after getting the Hep B series. I also decline the optionals.

Here is a great article from the developer of Gardasil stating "it doesn't even have any evidence to prevent any cancer and has worse side effects than good ones". The main thing with vaccinations is that each mom should do "their own" homework and research to know what they are putting into their children. Of course you should be proactive and protect your child but we shouldn't have to follow what the government tells us to do when it comes to vaccines.

https://southweb.org/lifewise/the-lead-vaccine-developer-comes-clean-so-she-can-sleep-at-night-gardasil-and-cervarix-dont-work-are-dangerous-and-werent-tested/

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

hsilverm:
I am very proactive for both carseat safety and the "necessary" vaccines ( always choosing Thymerosal free). I know many feel strongly about getting ALL vaccines done on schedule at once bc the research says it is all safe but you really can't argue that there aren't adverse side effects in some. I chose to vaccinate Logan with the mandatory vaccines (without Thymerosal) but follow an every month spread out schedule vs all at once every other month the first year. My brother and I had severe side effects after getting the Hep B series. I also decline the optionals.
Here is a great article from the developer of Gardasil stating "it doesn't even have any evidence to prevent any cancer and has worse side effects than good ones". The main thing with vaccinations is that each mom should do "their own" homework and research to know what they are putting into their children. Of course you should be proactive and protect your child but we shouldn't have to follow what the government tells us to do when it comes to vaccines.

https://southweb.org/lifewise/the-lead-vaccine-developer-comes-clean-so-she-can-sleep-at-night-gardasil-and-cervarix-dont-work-are-dangerous-and-werent-tested/

Do you have the same information from a more widely respected source?

ETA: A medical journal, perhaps? Obviously if vaccines were being regulated in schools, there would be a list of required and optional vaccines. Laws and regulations always take what ifs into account. Pertussis is one I get livid about. The fact that there are children who still contract polio makes my blood boil and tetanus as well. Tetanus is one where the school could be liable. What if your kid contracts tetanus from a rusty tool in shop or ceramics class? Who is at fault? The school or the parents?

Cheerilee · July 2013

Baker_Bride:
hsilverm:
I am very proactive for both carseat safety and the "necessary" vaccines ( always choosing Thymerosal free). I know many feel strongly about getting ALL vaccines done on schedule at once bc the research says it is all safe but you really can't argue that there aren't adverse side effects in some. I chose to vaccinate Logan with the mandatory vaccines (without Thymerosal) but follow an every month spread out schedule vs all at once every other month the first year. My brother and I had severe side effects after getting the Hep B series. I also decline the optionals.
Here is a great article from the developer of Gardasil stating "it doesn't even have any evidence to prevent any cancer and has worse side effects than good ones". The main thing with vaccinations is that each mom should do "their own" homework and research to know what they are putting into their children. Of course you should be proactive and protect your child but we shouldn't have to follow what the government tells us to do when it comes to vaccines.

https://southweb.org/lifewise/the-lead-vaccine-developer-comes-clean-so-she-can-sleep-at-night-gardasil-and-cervarix-dont-work-are-dangerous-and-werent-tested/
Do you have the same information from a more widely respected source?

Definitely this. One of the junior Kennedy's claimed all sorts of anti-vax stuff only to find out later that the doctor's he "quoted" had never said such things - not even in another context.

I'm curious - which are the "optional" vaccines? DD gets what her pedi office gives, all of which are listed in her shot record. I wasn't under the impression that chicken pox, for example, was "optional". Technically, they'd all be optional since we have the option of not vacc'ing.

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

Cheerilee:
Baker_Bride:
hsilverm:
I am very proactive for both carseat safety and the "necessary" vaccines ( always choosing Thymerosal free). I know many feel strongly about getting ALL vaccines done on schedule at once bc the research says it is all safe but you really can't argue that there aren't adverse side effects in some. I chose to vaccinate Logan with the mandatory vaccines (without Thymerosal) but follow an every month spread out schedule vs all at once every other month the first year. My brother and I had severe side effects after getting the Hep B series. I also decline the optionals.
Here is a great article from the developer of Gardasil stating "it doesn't even have any evidence to prevent any cancer and has worse side effects than good ones". The main thing with vaccinations is that each mom should do "their own" homework and research to know what they are putting into their children. Of course you should be proactive and protect your child but we shouldn't have to follow what the government tells us to do when it comes to vaccines.

https://southweb.org/lifewise/the-lead-vaccine-developer-comes-clean-so-she-can-sleep-at-night-gardasil-and-cervarix-dont-work-are-dangerous-and-werent-tested/
Do you have the same information from a more widely respected source?
Definitely this. One of the junior Kennedy's claimed all sorts of anti-vax stuff only to find out later that the doctor's he "quoted" had never said such things - not even in another context.
I'm curious - which are the "optional" vaccines? DD gets what her pedi office gives, all of which are listed in her shot record. I wasn't under the impression that chicken pox, for example, was "optional". Technically, they'd all be optional since we have the option of not vacc'ing.

For us the ped said flu and hep were both optional. But we went with both of them as kids do die from flu.

Cheerilee · July 2013

Oh, and I was looking for something before I posted what I "thought" to be a truth. Thimerosal has been removed or reduced in vaccines. This has been the case since BEFORE the autism prevalence rose drastically (IMO because of diagnosis NOT other things). See this reputable FDA site: CLICK ME, NOW!

I actually sent a more simply worded version of this to DSS's bio-mom when she was telling us to put him through mercury chelation to cure his autism... He didn't get the vaccines with mercury/thimerosal...

amaite · July 2013

Totally not comparable. I don't think vaccinations should be made law. People should not be forced to have something injected into their or their child's bodies. I am pro vaccine, but it is not something that should be forced onto people who don't want it or don't want their kids to have it. And, as another poster said, while small, there are risks to vaccines.

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

Scout2005:
Linzlu214:
I'm saying that to me, hep b is less of a threat to my infant than pertussis or hep a. I don't think it should be compulsory at birth. Not that my kid shouldn't get it at some point.
It's the claim that the only way to get Heb B is by being a big slut or druggie that is getting you a major WTF.

Actually, my Dad got it from a blood transfusion AFTER we found out about Ryan White. He almost died of it 15 years or so later. It can just magically come back without warning and it's second coming is almost always deadly. He was put on the liver transplant list and he lost 2/3 of his body weight and he was not a heavy guy to begin.

amaite · July 2013

Scout2005:
Linzlu214:
I'm saying that to me, hep b is less of a threat to my infant than pertussis or hep a. I don't think it should be compulsory at birth. Not that my kid shouldn't get it at some point.
It's the claim that the only way to get Heb B is by being a big slut or druggie that is getting you a major WTF.

Yes. I agree. We were strongly advised to get our son the hep B vaccine at birth, since he was going to need a blood transfusion within a few months. The comment is not only ignorant but offensive.

Cheerilee · July 2013

Baker_Bride:
Cheerilee:
Definitely this. One of the junior Kennedy's claimed all sorts of anti-vax stuff only to find out later that the doctor's he "quoted" had never said such things - not even in another context.
I'm curious - which are the "optional" vaccines? DD gets what her pedi office gives, all of which are listed in her shot record. I wasn't under the impression that chicken pox, for example, was "optional". Technically, they'd all be optional since we have the option of not vacc'ing.
For us the ped said flu and hep were both optional. But we went with both of them as kids do die from flu.

I hope I trimmed that tree correctly. We weren't given the option for either. I was given the option to delay Hep at birth but DD got it at one of her first appointments. With the flu vaccine, it was just one of them they gave her when it was due. They tell me what they're giving, but don't ask what I want or don't want. Granted, I wouldn't have turned them down, anyway. The flu vaccine is one I can't have so did want DD to get it.

rp-chicago-mom · July 2013

Scout2005:
Baker_Bride:
Scout2005:
Linzlu214:
I'm saying that to me, hep b is less of a threat to my infant than pertussis or hep a. I don't think it should be compulsory at birth. Not that my kid shouldn't get it at some point.
It's the claim that the only way to get Heb B is by being a big slut or druggie that is getting you a major WTF.
Actually, my Dad got it from a blood transfusion AFTER we found out about Ryan White. He almost died of it 15 years or so later. It can just magically come back without warning and it's second coming is almost always deadly. He was put on the liver transplant list and he lost 2/3 of his body weight and he was not a heavy guy to begin.
A friend of mine's husband had open heart surgery as a teen, with a blood transfusion. They were seeing an RE and during the testing for their IVF cycle he was found to have Hep B. The doctor treated him like he was some drug addict low life. It was hideous.
Attitudes like that are just so unimaginable to me.

Good thing they caught it before it could get ugly, though. It basically acts like cirrhosis (Totally had no idea that started with C, btw). You get jaundiced, sick to the stomach, weak, your belly expands with fluid. It was the most miserable looking sickness I have ever seen, and I've known quite a few people to die of cancer.

hsilverm · July 2013

Cheerilee:
Baker_Bride:
hsilverm:
I am very proactive for both carseat safety and the "necessary" vaccines ( always choosing Thymerosal free). I know many feel strongly about getting ALL vaccines done on schedule at once bc the research says it is all safe but you really can't argue that there aren't adverse side effects in some. I chose to vaccinate Logan with the mandatory vaccines (without Thymerosal) but follow an every month spread out schedule vs all at once every other month the first year. My brother and I had severe side effects after getting the Hep B series. I also decline the optionals.
Here is a great article from the developer of Gardasil stating "it doesn't even have any evidence to prevent any cancer and has worse side effects than good ones". The main thing with vaccinations is that each mom should do "their own" homework and research to know what they are putting into their children. Of course you should be proactive and protect your child but we shouldn't have to follow what the government tells us to do when it comes to vaccines.

https://southweb.org/lifewise/the-lead-vaccine-developer-comes-clean-so-she-can-sleep-at-night-gardasil-and-cervarix-dont-work-are-dangerous-and-werent-tested/
Do you have the same information from a more widely respected source?
Definitely this. One of the junior Kennedy's claimed all sorts of anti-vax stuff only to find out later that the doctor's he "quoted" had never said such things - not even in another context.
I'm curious - which are the "optional" vaccines? DD gets what her pedi office gives, all of which are listed in her shot record. I wasn't under the impression that chicken pox, for example, was "optional". Technically, they'd all be optional since we have the option of not vacc'ing.

As for the first year, the flu vaccine was the optional vaccine we declined. We are getting the chicken pox, not sure who said that was optional.

hsilverm · July 2013

Scout2005:
hsilverm:

Here is a great article from the developer of Gardasil stating "it doesn't even have any evidence to prevent any cancer and has worse side effects than good ones". The main thing with vaccinations is that each mom should do "their own" homework and research to know what they are putting into their children. Of course you should be proactive and protect your child but we shouldn't have to follow what the government tells us to do when it comes to vaccines.

https://southweb.org/lifewise/the-lead-vaccine-developer-comes-clean-so-she-can-sleep-at-night-gardasil-and-cervarix-dont-work-are-dangerous-and-werent-tested/
Yeah, this right here ^ is my issue with moms who are not qualified medical researchers doing their own "homework" and coming up with conclusions that go against the CDC, FDA and WHO.
This is an anti-vax Web site. It's is biased, and untrustworthy, and anyone using it to draw conclusions that will affect their child's health gets a pretty major side eye from me.
Does this really strike you as an actual ARTICLE? Where are the opposing opinions? The balanced offering of thoughts and theories from other scientists?
Try an actual piece of journalism. Pretty different. This:
https://www.npr.org/2011/09/19/140543977/hpv-vaccine-the-science-behind-the-controversy
is how you present information designed to actually educate the public. Dr. Harper is represented, as are other scientists. Amazing how an anti-vax site just forgot to include the other POVs on this topic.
Please check the agendas of your "sources" before relying on them when making medical decisions.

Maybe it's not the best website to report research from but at the end of the day what I was trying to say was each mom should be able to understand what is being put into their child's body before being told they have to because that is against our rights. My brother and myself had severe reactions to the Hep series and has made me more cautious about what goes into my child's body. I wouldn't want to be told I HAD to put something in them without understanding what pros and cons there were to the vaccine. Again, I get my child vaccinated, so before I get flamed on that I want to make that clear. The only vaccine my child hasn't gotten was the optional flu vaccine.

hsilverm · July 2013

I understand the hostile feelings parents have towards those who don't vaccinate their child with the mandatory vaccines such as MMR and DTAP bc they fear their child or others' lives could be affected. I do of course speak to my doctor about everything that goes into my child and read books to inform about each one before it is administered. Not just look at these internet articles.

At the end of the day, it is just a violation of our rights to be told that we have to inject something into our child without having the right to make sure it is the best thing for our child. Sometimes the FDA is quick with releasing things. For example, the big debate of Johnson and Johnson products. Many moms refuse to use their products on their child because of the small amounts of Formaldehyde. The formula has been changed in Europe but not in the USA because the FDA says "it's a safe level" but would you want to be told you have to use it?

Want a personalized experience?

Vaccinating: Discuss.

Re: Vaccinating: Discuss.

Choose Another Board

Search Boards