Question for 'pro life' people

MoFree · June 2013

After yesterday's discussion of embryo rights I would like to know your thoughts on IVF, particularly frozen embryos.
If a couple considers their family complete do you think there is a legal or moral obligation to transfer frozen embryos? Should they be required to donate them to another couple? Is it okay donating them to medical research? What do you think should happen to the embryos?

jodegaard · June 2013

I'm not sure that I would consider this abortion subject matter. An embryo is not a pregnancy. Also, since you've taken the women's body out of the equation, it's not really a pro-choice subject either.

I personally, having never been faced with such a difficult reality, don't think I would go as far as IVF in the first place. For me, this falls into the personal beliefs category.

MoFree · June 2013

If, and this is an enormous if, my FET results in a take home baby, I still have two remaining embryos frozen together. Our family would then be complete and I would then donate the embryos to medical science. This is not some far fetched fantasy scenario but one faced by thousands of couples undergoing ART.

twoitalians · June 2013

Does this question have to be for pro lifers? I consider myself neither pro life nor pro choice as I believe that each circumstance can be treated differently. As someone whose interests are deeply rooted in science, I would opt to donate the frozen embryos to research. While the embryos may not be growing into a new life as some people believe is intended for it, at least through research the embryo would be fulfilling a purpose hopefully to advance medicine or something else beneficial to the human race as a whole.

jodegaard · June 2013

MoFree:
If, and this is an enormous if, my FET results in a take home baby, I still have two remaining embryos frozen together. Our family would then be complete and I would then donate the embryos to medical science. This is not some far fetched fantasy scenario but one faced by thousands of couples undergoing ART.

Good for you. I hope those potential donations are very helpful for the medical field. You and your H are incredibly strong people and Lila is so blessed to have you as parents!

MoFree · June 2013

twoitalians:
Does this question have to be for pro lifers? I consider myself neither pro life nor pro choice as I believe that each circumstance can be treated differently. As someone whose interests are deeply rooted in science, I would opt to donate the frozen embryos to research. While the embryos may not be growing into a new life as some people believe is intended for it, at least through research the embryo would be fulfilling a purpose hopefully to advance medicine or something else beneficial to the human race as a whole.

. Thank you for your response. The reason I asked 'pro life' people is because of the discussion of civil rights of the 'ore born,' if that is the correct term. Some of the most passionate people in that sphere are completely against IVF due to concerns for the embryo.

MoFree · June 2013

jodegaard:
MoFree:
If, and this is an enormous if, my FET results in a take home baby, I still have two remaining embryos frozen together. Our family would then be complete and I would then donate the embryos to medical science. This is not some far fetched fantasy scenario but one faced by thousands of couples undergoing ART.
Good for you. I hope those potential donations are very helpful for the medical field. You and your H are incredibly strong people and Lila is so blessed to have you as parents! 

. Thank you but we are not especially strong. It is what it is and the only way for us to have a pregnancy with our genetic children is IVF. It certainly wasn't first choice but we are grateful for 21st century medicine, some insurance coverage and the means to pay for any subsequent cycles.

halvorsonl00 · June 2013

I think it's the parents choice and no one else's. While donating to someone else in need is a great opportunity and sturdy selfless act, I also think donating to medial science is great. It can only help in advancing technologies.

My personal views, if I were faced with this decision myself, I would donate to research. I would always wonder what happened to 'my child' if I donated to a family.

gollywollypog · June 2013

I agree with JodegaardViking. I think I would tend toward implantation as the beginning of a likely viable life, and not fertilization.

I think if I had faced IF and I had the means I would have tried for a baby through IVF. I can't say what I'd do if I had extra embryos after we were done having/trying for kids. I would considering all the options. I think I would prefer to donate to another couple but would prefer to donate to science over them staying frozen forever or being destroyed.

jodegaard · June 2013

Saltylove:
Stupid question, but an Embryo is an egg that has been fertilized, yes? What is considered the moment of conception, implantation, or fertilization? Does it vary, and so some people are against IVF because they believe conception occurs at fertilization?I really should know this.
I'm pro choice, but I believe it is up to the individual couple to decide. I would probably donate it for research if I was in that position.

Exactly what you said, it varies and so some people are against IVF.

MoFree · June 2013

The Catholic Church's official position is against any conception that does not take place in bed or wherever else using the wife's egg and the husband's sperm, so IUI is also taboo.

jodegaard · June 2013

MoFree:
The Catholic Church's official position is against any conception that does not take place in bed or wherever else using the wife's egg and the husband's sperm, so IUI is also taboo.

I don't think it's possible to care less than I do about what the Catholic Church "thinks". An institution is not my go to for personal opinions.

ETA: I don't hate the Catholic Church or anything, far from it. But it's simply not an authority for me.

rp-chicago-mom · June 2013

I don't think they should be required to do so. I would donate them because I would love to help a mother/couple/family have the joy that is parenthood. I am not in this position so who knows what I'd do in reality but that's what I'd like to think I'd do.

rp-chicago-mom · June 2013

kikimo327:
MoFree:
The Catholic Church's official position is against any conception that does not take place in bed or wherever else using the wife's egg and the husband's sperm, so not only if IVF but also IUI is also taboo.
What does the Church have against turkey basters?  

It threatens penises [what's the plural of penis?]

jodegaard · June 2013

kikimo327:
The unfortunate reality is that many people are employed by the Church (vis a vis, teaching at Catholic schools, working for the dioceses, etc) and are unable to get benefits for IVF. Actually, there was a case not too long ago where a teacher was fired for having IVF done. No joke.
Also, in many parts of the world (specifically Latin America), the Church has a strong influence on government policy as well as on what society finds acceptable or not. This goes beyond abortion and access to birth control, and includes IVF.

True. I am well aware of these problems, it's unfortunate indeed.

jessalynn521 · June 2013

I think I am a believer in implantation being key when it comes to frozen embryos (However I will admit I haven't given it much thought until you posed this question). I am so glad that science has provided those with IF options, and I could never be against that. Once you are done having a family whatever is left is up to you. I would think it would be good to give back to the sciences that provided the advances to allow you the opportunity, but if another family wanted it and you felt so inclined I wouldn't be against that either. Hell, if you wanna leave it frozen for years to come go ahead.

ccam · June 2013

I think we're going to come up against this issue in the future. We have frozen embryos and although we're not done with our family yet, I think we might have extras when we are done. It's probably one of the hardest decisions we'll have to make.

rp-chicago-mom · June 2013

kikimo327:
Baker_Bride:
kikimo327:
MoFree:
The Catholic Church's official position is against any conception that does not take place in bed or wherever else using the wife's egg and the husband's sperm, so not only if IVF but also IUI is also taboo.
What does the Church have against turkey basters?  

It threatens penises [what's the plural of penis?]
Peni... hahahahaha. 

I typed that and thought no! and tyed penises and still thought no. Hahaha!

cedenton · June 2013

I would donate them to another couple. The idea of them being used for medical research doesn't sit right with me.

bigbootyjudi · June 2013

Oh man, this is a rough hypothetical situation.

I think if a couple considers themselves done having kids and they still have frozen embryos, there is a moral obligation to transfer them to another couple or donate them to medical research. I don't think a couple should be forced to have kids they aren't ready for/can't afford, but I feel like giving their embroyos up for "adoption" would be what would be the responsible thing to do.

I don't know if I'd say someone should be jailed for choosing to not use the rest of their embroyos, but I do think it would be selfish of them to not want to donate them to another couple, knowing the heartbreak the entire IVF process can be (especially when it doesn't work), or to science.

I haven't read the other responses, so I hope I'm not offending you, Mo, if somewhere in here you posted your opinion and it's not along the same lines. I've never been through IVF, so I feel like my stance on this is a little shaky.

mystic_J · June 2013

We have two embryos from our IVF cycle currently frozen. We plan on transferring both in our FET cycle next spring. But if we did have more than that, or we end up having to do another IVF cycle and have extra embryos from that, we will be donating to science as well.

Toni79 · June 2013

ccam:
I think we're going to come up against this issue in the future. We have frozen embryos and although we're not done with our family yet, I think we might have extras when we are done. It's probably one of the hardest decisions we'll have to make.

T H I S 1 0 0 % . . .

I consider myself pro-life. Although I think its ok to terminate a pregnancy for medical reasons ... so I guess I'm more on the pro-choice side of things?

I was also raised catholic. Now I'm a christmas and easter church goer. My DD was conceived through IVF ... and we baptised her in a catholic church (scandalous I know). And her "catholic" godmother (my sister) is gay (extra scandalous I know).

Honeslty, you don't really know what you'll do until you are in that situation. Before TTC ... I thought if I were given the choice, I'd never choose to do IUIs or IVF. Then after 1.5 yrs we still weren't getting KU. I thought, what's the harm in just getting checked out to see what's wrong. Then we were Dx with Unexplained IF. Dr wants to try clomid ... ok, no harm in that. 3 cycles later ... RE suggests IUI ... first hard decision ... when I did my research I thought it said that the catholic church was ok with IUIs as long as the sperm was not collected via masterbation (you'd have to collect it in a condom). Well, I figured that wasn't that bad of a sin! LOL! So we decided to do IUI. 3 IUIs later... no luck. RE suggests IVF ... omg ... I can't make this decision ... by this point we'd been TTC for over 2 years ... probably closer to 2.5 years ... do we throw in the towel becasue the church says its wrong? Do I think its wrong? I wish they could figure out why were not getting pregnant! We could adopt. But I'm not ready to give up my dream of having a biological child. Tears, lots of tears, and more tears. Ok, we'll do it. We'll do IVF. I'll be selfish and sin and go against the church because I want a child that badly! God gave humans the knowledge and technology for me to have a child. But ... I don't want any embryos to be "destroyed".

I still feel that way ... I don't want any disposed of. I'm not sure if I lump "research" into disposal. I'm not sure how I feel about donating to another couple - I'd always wonder what happend or if I technically have another biological child somewhere.

We have a few frozen embryos. We are not done building our family. I worry if we'll have any left over when we are done building our family. I'm hoping we are able to complete our family and not have any left over. We decided to cross that bridge when we come to it. Like PP said, it will be one of the harest decisions we'll make, and I'm sure there will be more tears.

Part of me thinks (depending on how many I have left over), that I would have them transfered into me without taking all the additional hormones. The chances of them implanting would probably be low, but at least I'm giving them a chance.

I'm potentially in that situation, and I'm not even sure what we'll do, :-(

gidge · June 2013

What are these frozen embryos you speak of? I've heard people mention them but thought that was all just urban legend

Seriously though, I hope you ladies that have frosties have lots of luck with them.

We kind of new going in to IVF that it wasn't likely for us to have more frozen embryos than # of children we wanted. We marked on our consent forms to donate to research. That decision was solidified when we started using donor gametes. I think if we hadn't had an inkling that we'd need donor egg or sperm, it would have been an easier decision to donate to another couple. I just wasn't ready to add that too an already more unique conception story for our child.

(I'm actually pro-choice but do feel like all the embryos we lost should have had the chance to be our babies)

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