progression of civil rights. This will make some people mad, beware.

gollywollypog · June 2013

My bff is gay. We've been best friends since we were 11 and met at the local water park and we've been through hell and back together. She and her SO have been together for about as long as H and I have, around 9 years.

I bring her up because she knows first hand what it is to fight for equality and civil rights for her own self.

Bff believes that one day the unborn will be included in the civil rights discourse and that eventually we will be looking back at abortion the way we can now look back on the other great injustices of our culture and the world.

It's going to take a really long time to get to a place where that can be so, but it's taken a really long time to get to the place where we are today.

I'm with my bff.

What are your thoughts?

MoFree · June 2013

I'm sorry but I completely disagree about equating LBGR rights to those of the unborn. I am very strongly pro choice.

cmb2 · June 2013

I'm interested to see where this goes

But I'm with you. I used to be all about women's rights, and the right to choose, but after being pregnant and having a baby myself it's harder to feel that way.

I got into a discussion about this with a friend the other day, and she did make a good point about looking at the state of other countries where it is illegal - but still....As always there are pros and cons to each side, but it's life we're talking about...

CrazyDaisy8 · June 2013

Scout2005:

I disagree.

You cannot leap frog over the bodily autonomy of a woman and force her to continue a pregnancy.

These are apples to shoe leather comparisons. Not even in the same category.

I have to agree with Scout on this one. I don't think there is a way to compare these two.

Edit: I think there are way to may circumstances and situations that revolve around why someone would choose to have an abortion. My SIL had to have one because it was either that or she would have faced a 95% chance of her dying and leaving her current child. Making that decision illegal in my mind is wrong.

mamahawk12 · June 2013

I want to respond to this with every fiber in my being, but I just... can't. In fact, I'm not sure I'll even be able to check back in on this thread - that's how emotionally charged I get over this topic.

Short answer: I agree.

lady_tytah · June 2013

My friend had to get a secind tri abortion because the baby was poisoning her. She had a less than 3% chance of surving. I am seriously believe in pro-choice.

Buona Fortuna · June 2013

meaknigh:
I want to respond to this with every fiber in my being, but I just... can't. In fact, I'm not sure I'll even be able to check back in on this thread - that's how emotionally charged I get over this topic.
Short answer: I agree.

Me too.

jessalynn521 · June 2013

Well, there was a time where abortion was illegal, and women were trying to abort in alleys and dying in the process, so I don't agree.

I personally feel that there are certain things, like TMFR and in tough cases that make sense. What I don't get is women who repeatedly use it as if it is an accepted form of birth control. (I know a woman who has had 3, just because she had accidental pregnancies) If you don't want a baby use a preventative measure, but understand that sometimes even those can fail.

I dunno. I guess this wasn't really asking my opinion. However, I am someone who thinks that men should have a right in whether a woman aborts his child. I know that some find that controversial, but I think it should be a part of the decision. Just like it is a woman's body, that baby is part the man's.

Andreabks · June 2013

i have a different perspective than some on this issue, especially coming from a very conservative Christian background.

personally, I think abortion is wrong, but I can see why in some cases it is needed. in the end, its between a woman and her god, not her and the government. i'd preffer the gov't stayed out of my doctors office. rape and incest happen and I dont' know that I would make a different choice in those situations

I don't think either abortion or gay/lesbian marriage is the government's business. if the homosexual community want to get married, that's fine by me. i think the institution of "marriage" should stay in the church and everything done through the state be called civil union or something else. and i know many homosexual couples who have been together 20+ years, while many heterosexual couples we know have been divorced at least once. if the issue is stability, they're doing a much better job than we are right now.

Rhomonk · June 2013

kikimo327:

You know, I find it mindblowing that people think that if abortion is illegal, people will stop having them. Instead, making it illegal will just take us back to the pre-Roe days where women did whatever possible to have unsafe abortions.

ETA: There are a ton of things that are illegal that people do every day. Laws don't stop people from doing them.

All of this.

bigbootyjudi · June 2013

jessalynn521 · June 2013

Scout2005:
jessalynn521:
Well, there was a time where abortion was illegal, and women were trying to abort in alleys and dying in the process, so I don't agree.I personally feel that there are certain things, like TMFR and in tough cases that make sense. What I don't get is women who repeatedly use it as if it is an accepted form of birth control. I know a woman who has had 3, just because she had accidental pregnancies If you don't want a baby use a preventative measure, but understand that sometimes even those can fail.I dunno. I guess this wasn't really asking my opinion. However, I am someone who thinks that men should have a right in whether a woman aborts his child. I know that some find that controversial, but I think it should be a part of the decision. Just like it is a woman's body, that baby is part the man's.nbsp;
A woman is pregnant after rape. She wishes not to continue the pregnancy. Her rapists claims it was conscentual sex and insists she carry the pregnancy to term so he can raise the child. Now what?

I am not saying everything is black and white. I am really not. I understand that there are tough cases (which I have always defined as rape and incest and for the purpose of this discussion I will lump in TMFR rather than listing it seperately from tough cases) I am just saying that in cases that don't, because I am sure if a woman was raped and it was brought forward that way that there would be proceedings that showed that (meaning charges filed), when it is a man and his girlfriend, and man and his wife, there should be consideration taken to the fact that the man is 50% a creator to that life, and should be offered consideration. That is all.

I also understand that this path takes A LOT of what-ifs, and I am sure that is a part of why it will never gain any traction moving forward.

bigbootyjudi · June 2013

There are always going to be people on both sides of this; pro-choice vs. pro-life, and either side is not going to be (easily) swayed. I feel like this is going to turn into a 10 page debate and in the end, everyone is going to have the same views they did coming in.

I'm pro-life, FWIW, and nothing anyone posts here is going to change that.

thepretzelchick · June 2013

bigbootyjudi:
There are always going to be people on both sides of this; pro-choice vs. pro-life, and either side is not going to be (easily) swayed. I feel like this is going to turn into a 10 page debate and in the end, everyone is going to have the same views they did coming in.
I'm pro-life, FWIW, and nothing anyone posts here is going to change that.

This 100%

lady_tytah · June 2013

Scout2005:
jessalynn521:
Well, there was a time where abortion was illegal, and women were trying to abort in alleys and dying in the process, so I don't agree.I personally feel that there are certain things, like TMFR and in tough cases that make sense. What I don't get is women who repeatedly use it as if it is an accepted form of birth control. I know a woman who has had 3, just because she had accidental pregnancies If you don't want a baby use a preventative measure, but understand that sometimes even those can fail.I dunno. I guess this wasn't really asking my opinion. However, I am someone who thinks that men should have a right in whether a woman aborts his child. I know that some find that controversial, but I think it should be a part of the decision. Just like it is a woman's body, that baby is part the man's.nbsp;
A woman is pregnant after rape. She wishes not to continue the pregnancy. Her rapists claims it was conscentual sex and insists she carry the pregnancy to term so he can raise the child. Now what?

Or worse, the woman could die but the husband wants to take the chance. What then?

Thhusband/man purposely got his wife pregnant knowing they have no financial ability sto support it. He just wants to have that boy. Should she be obligated to carry the pregnancy.

melmarie26 · June 2013

bigbootyjudi:
There are always going to be people on both sides of this; pro-choice vs. pro-life, and either side is not going to be (easily) swayed. I feel like this is going to turn into a 10 page debate and in the end, everyone is going to have the same views they did coming in.

Exactly.

poppyseed1017 · June 2013

These two things are not even remotely in the same camp.

I am very pro-choice and very pro-women's rights. I am a woman. I also have a child. But, no government entity is going to tell me I have to birth a baby if I don't want to, no matter what the circumstance.

Also, let's be honest here, jessalynn. More times than not in a situation where abortion is on the table, the "man" is nowhere to be found.

A woman's choice is never an "injustice".

Toni79 · June 2013

I am all for equal civil rights. My sister is gay and I pray that she and her parnter are able to have the same rights and benifits DH and I have.

I am also "pro-life".

I believe you are referring to "Personhood Legislation" that is gaining some attention in a couple of states. At face value I have no issues with this. However each state has various "small print" which gives rights at the moment of conception. My only concern about this legislation is that it could aslo extend to embryos and could essentially eliminate IVF and other Assistive Reproductive Technologies.

See this article on RESOLVE's Website (The National Infertility Association): https://www.resolve.org/about/personhood-legislation.html

I'm honetly torn on this subject. I am pro-life, but without IVF, I wouldn't have my beautifull, amazing, wonderful DD. And my heart would still be aching.

I'm all for this legislation but only if they work out all the details to make it co-exist with IVF and other Assistive REporductive Technologies.

A close female gay couple of mine has a daughter through IVF (one partner's egg, with donnor sperm, but carried by the other partner).

Does your BFF and her partner ever want kids? She may want to look at the fine print.

Sorry, I realize I'm opening a whole differant can of worms ...

Rhomonk · June 2013

Scout2005:

It must be nice, for many reasons, to have never sat in an NT scan room with your gelled belly exposed while a doctor goes over the 18 mm nuchal measurement and multiple cystic hygromas growing into your baby's brain.

While you desperately try to process what has just happened over the sound of your heart breaking into three million pieces.

And then have to sign a piece of paper terminating a very wanted, very loved pregnancy because you know that is the only merciful thing you can do for your cherished child.

Must be peachy effing keen to not have ever lived the reality of what we are talking about here.

HUGS Scout. My first pregnancy was almost like this. My measurement was 7 and they also detected hydrops. These types of discussion just anger me. I shouldn't have opened this thread.

jessalynn521 · June 2013

Scout2005:
It must be nice, for many reasons, to have never sat in an NT scan room with your gelled belly exposed while a doctor goes over the 18 mm nuchal measurement and multiple cystic hygromas growing into your baby's brain.
While you desperately try to process what has just happened over the sound of your heart breaking into three million pieces.
And then have to sign a piece of paper terminating a very wanted, very loved pregnancy because you know that is the only merciful thing you can do for your cherished child.
Must be peachy effing keen to not have ever lived the reality of what we are talking about here.

Scout, you are right. I have no idea how that feels. But that is why I support certain means. I have been using the wrong abbreviation, but Terminating for medical reasons is valid. 100% in my book. I am just one of those straddlers. I understand what you said earlier about pro choice=/=pro abortion, but the religion that was beaten into my head growing up says that it is. That is why you see me saying that I understand in tough cases. I am truly sorry for the history that you have had to deal with in a very real way on the topic, but for whatever reason I can't bring myself to say I am pro choice, probably because it was always equated to me as being pro abortion.

melmarie26 · June 2013

kikimo327:
Scout2005:
It must be nice, for many reasons, to have never sat in an NT scan room with your gelled belly exposed while a doctor goes over the 18 mm nuchal measurement and multiple cystic hygromas growing into your baby's brain.
While you desperately try to process what has just happened over the sound of your heart breaking into three million pieces.
And then have to sign a piece of paper terminating a very wanted, very loved pregnancy because you know that is the only merciful thing you can do for your cherished child.
Must be peachy effing keen to not have ever lived the reality of what we are talking about here.
Or to have never experienced rape or incest...

I for one am grateful I have never had to experience any of this.

My heart isn't made of those types of fibers.

I'm so sorry you've been through this.

:: Tightly hugging a squirming away Scout ::

:: Forehead kisses to you, Keeks ::

poppyseed1017 · June 2013

Also, to me, none of these issues are or should be about religion. They are human rights issues. Human rights, people. Not "Well, the Bible says...". Maybe I am jaded because I'm not religious at all. I used to be, and I grew up with those sayings beat over my head in church every week, but I don't agree with it anymore.

(I should add that by human rights, I mean the rights for homosexuals and women - you can argue that it also means rights for unborn children, but I am also of the school of thought that life does not begin at conception. Flame me if you want.)

Crossingfingers · June 2013

I think you are probably right that in the future the unborn will also have rights. I am very torn on how I feel about that. I think it should be a very last resort and handled in a timely manner. I think there are some very extreme cases where the right to choose is abused, and other extreme cases where the right to choose has saved lives and ended suffering. I held my very best friend's hand when she had hers and cried with her afterwards. It is not something that I would choose for myself, but cannot imagine the horror of being put in a situation where I would consider it.

Toni79 · June 2013

Toni79:

I am all for equal civil rights. My sister is gay and I pray that she and her parnter are able to have the same rights and benifits DH and I have.

I am also "pro-life".

I believe you are referring to "Personhood Legislation" that is gaining some attention in a couple of states. At face value I have no issues with this. However each state has various "small print" which gives rights at the moment of conception. My only concern about this legislation is that it could aslo extend to embryos and could essentially eliminate IVF and other Assistive Reproductive Technologies.

See this article on RESOLVE's Website (The National Infertility Association): https://www.resolve.org/about/personhood-legislation.html

I'm honetly torn on this subject. I am pro-life, but without IVF, I wouldn't have my beautifull, amazing, wonderful DD. And my heart would still be aching.

I'm all for this legislation but only if they work out all the details to make it co-exist with IVF and other Assistive REporductive Technologies.

A close female gay couple of mine has a daughter through IVF (one partner's egg, with donnor sperm, but carried by the other partner).

Does your BFF and her partner ever want kids? She may want to look at the fine print.

Sorry, I realize I'm opening a whole differant can of worms ...

To clarify ... I agree with PP that gay rights and unborn rights are two totally differant topics.

Although I consider myself "pro-life", I do think there are medical situations where an abortion is necessary. As well as situations like rape, etc. I just don't think it should be used as a form of birth control.

AggieDaner · June 2013

I think a lot of you are failing to check your privilege here, but I also know that no amount of reason or rhetoric will convince you that other people's bodies are none of your fcking business. After the "IM not a feminist" pride festival the other day, I can't say I'm surprised. Moving on...

rp-chicago-mom · June 2013

AggieDaner:
I think a lot of you are failing to check your privilege here, but I also know that no amount of reason or rhetoric will convince you that other people's bodies are none of your fcking business. After the "IM not a feminist" pride festival the other day, I can't say I'm surprised. Moving on...

Was there an I'm not a feminist festival here? I miss all the best stuff.

SpruceGrouse · June 2013

rsfan23:
poppyseed1017:
Also, to me, none of these issues are or should be about religion. They are human rights issues. Human rights, people. Not "Well, the Bible says...". Maybe I am jaded because I'm not religious at all. I used to be, and I grew up with those sayings beat over my head in church every week, but I don't agree with it anymore.
(I should add that by human rights, I mean the rights for homosexuals and women - you can argue that it also means rights for unborn children, but I am also of the school of thought that life does not begin at conception. Flame me if you want.)
The bolded is how I feel and I grew up as a minister's daughter. I always get so upset when someone brings in religion when it isn't religious.

I agree with this. I feel like religion should stay out of laws, not everyone shares the same religion anyway.

Please forgive me, I can't get my thoughts together well, having a very bad stroke side effects week. I do think that women should get to choose, I would want them to choose life but it is their body and their life, I have no buisness casting judgement on them. I have been told before that if I ever get pregnant while on Warfarin, I should end the pregnancy. I get chills thinking of how terrible that situation would be and I dont see how I could be strong enough to do it even though it would be the most humane for the baby (another point to getting my heart patch). I just know how terrible that situation would be for me and I can't imagine how awful that situation would be, I pray it never happens. This is why I feel have no buisness telling other women what they should do when I don't know what they have been through.

I guess I am a feminist even though I still don't understand it well yet. Thanks again Kiki for explaining it a bit to me.

AggieDaner · June 2013

BlueDevilLady:
AggieDaner:
I think a lot of you are failing to check your privilege here, but I also know that no amount of reason or rhetoric will convince you that other people's bodies are none of your fcking business. After the "IM not a feminist" pride festival the other day, I can't say I'm surprised. Moving on...
Oh please. 2 people disagreeing hardly constitutes an "I'm not a feminist" pride festival.

Fair enough. I'm prone to hyperbole.

Jessica Swanlake · June 2013

Scout2005:
I disagree.
You cannot leap frog over the bodily autonomy of a woman and force her to continue a pregnancy.
These are apples to shoe leather comparisons. Not even in the same category.

This completely.

PaisleyRuth · June 2013

stephaniemthomas:
I'm just going to jump in here and say that I think most "pro-life" people agree that terminating a pregnancy isn't something that should be outlawed completely, but instead should be used only under certain circumstances. I don't know anyone personally who is pro-life and thinks that a person in the situations that some of you ladies have been in doesn't have the right to terminate their pregnancy.
::jumps back out::
ETA: Big hugs to those who have been forced to make such a difficult decision. I can't even imagine...

I agree completely with Steph.

A dear friend of mine gave birth to a daughter with anencephaly last year. She found out at 19 weeks that the baby had no brain. She went through the unthinkably tough decision process about what to do and decided to carry to term. Despite the fact that pregnancy is a dangerous condition for her because of a clotting disorder. She got to hold her daughter, dress her, take pictures with her older kids, and bury her in a cemetery where they can go & visit. It was also incredibly hard to go through the whole pregnancy knowing her child would not live much past birth.

Watching her go through that really opened my eyes to the complexity of the terms "abortion," "pro-choice" and "pro-life."

sdlaura · June 2013

Scout2005:
How would you reconcile situations where the mother's life is in jeopardy? Or as I experienced first hand, when a pregnancy is not viable but not ending on it's own? Rape? Incest?
Whose "civil rights" win?

I would ask these questions, too. Also, a D&C after a miscarriage is technically an abortion - would you regulate that?

How would you determine when a woman is allowed to end a pregnancy if the baby would not survive outside the womb?

We found out that our first baby had major heart defects, which could not be fixed even with open heart surgery or other interventions, at our 18-week anatomy scan. We had to scramble to get second, third, fourth, etc. opinions so that we had the option to end the pregnancy before it was no longer legally allowed. Every expert we came in contact with told us the baby would never survive, even with surgical intervention, and it's not possible to do a heart transplant on an infant. However, because a fetus doesn't need its own heart because the mother's body is pumping blood for it, I still would likely have carried to term. We had an amnio and everything was normal chromosomally.

I don't think anyone should ever make a judgement on what they would do in that situation until they've been in it. I would never wish it on my worst enemy. But the main reason we were able to get through it was because we were legally able to end the pregnancy and try to move on with our lives. I can't imagine where I would be right now, psychologically, if I was forced to carry a baby that could never survive, for another 19 weeks weeks of pregnancy.

I used to think that anyone who had a "late" abortion was just irresponsible for not doing it sooner. Now I understand that many fatal defects can't be seen until 20-ish weeks. I think it is so important to allow a woman to end a pregnancy up until the point of viability.

sdlaura · June 2013

jessalynn521:
Scout2005:
It must be nice, for many reasons, to have never sat in an NT scan room with your gelled belly exposed while a doctor goes over the 18 mm nuchal measurement and multiple cystic hygromas growing into your baby's brain.
While you desperately try to process what has just happened over the sound of your heart breaking into three million pieces.
And then have to sign a piece of paper terminating a very wanted, very loved pregnancy because you know that is the only merciful thing you can do for your cherished child.
Must be peachy effing keen to not have ever lived the reality of what we are talking about here.
Scout, you are right. I have no idea how that feels. But that is why I support certain means. I have been using the wrong abbreviation, but Terminating for medical reasons is valid. 100% in my book. I am just one of those straddlers. I understand what you said earlier about pro choice=/=pro abortion, but the religion that was beaten into my head growing up says that it is. That is why you see me saying that I understand in tough cases. I am truly sorry for the history that you have had to deal with in a very real way on the topic, but for whatever reason I can't bring myself to say I am pro choice, probably because it was always equated to me as being pro abortion.

If you get into the debate though where terminating for medical reasons is ok, who gets to decide which medical reasons are valid?

jodegaard · June 2013

It's very difficult to argue about human rights when both parties disagree on the definition of human. People against abortion believe life, therefore rights, begins at conception. People in favor of the option to choose don't believe that.

So until we can agree on when life begins, these discussions are an exercise in futility, and people will remain firmly grounded in their respective camps.

sdlaura · June 2013

Saltylove:
L12541:
Scout2005:
How would you reconcile situations where the mother's life is in jeopardy? Or as I experienced first hand, when a pregnancy is not viable but not ending on it's own? Rape? Incest?
Whose "civil rights" win?

I would ask these questions, too. Also, a D&C after a miscarriage is technically an abortion - would you regulate that?
How would you determine when a woman is allowed to end a pregnancy if the baby would not survive outside the womb?
We found out that our first baby had major heart defects, which could not be fixed even with open heart surgery or other interventions, at our 18-week anatomy scan. We had to scramble to get second, third, fourth, etc. opinions so that we had the option to end the pregnancy before it was no longer legally allowed. Every expert we came in contact with told us the baby would never survive, even with surgical intervention, and it's not possible to do a heart transplant on an infant. However, because a fetus doesn't need its own heart because the mother's body is pumping blood for it, I still would likely have carried to term. We had an amnio and everything was normal chromosomally.
I don't think anyone should ever make a judgement on what they would do in that situation until they've been in it. I would never wish it on my worst enemy. But the main reason we were able to get through it was because we were legally able to end the pregnancy and try to move on with our lives. I can't imagine where I would be right now, psychologically, if I was forced to carry a baby that could never survive, for another 19 weeks weeks of pregnancy.
I used to think that anyone who had a "late" abortion was just irresponsible for not doing it sooner. Now I understand that many fatal defects can't be seen until 20-ish weeks. I think it is so important to allow a woman to end a pregnancy up until the point of viability.
I'm so sorry you went through this. Hugs. While it was only a fraction of what you must have gone through, we went through the beginning stages of a possible chromosomal issue with this pregnancy, and it was devastating. I had an amino at 16ish weeks and everything checked out ok, but those were some of the most difficult conversations I've ever had in my life.
I cannot imagine what it would be like to live through a fatal diagnosis, and I completely agree with you that, until you are faced with such a decision you really can't say what you would do. More so, just because one person has the desire to carry the baby to term does not mean that everyone should have to, IMO, or that it is somehow the more ethical or noble thing to do.
Terminating a much wanted pregnancy would probably be the single most difficult decision anyone makes in their life, and anyone who assumes otherwise is a fool.
again, I'm so sorry that you, Scout, and anyone else has had to go through such a horrific ordeal.

Thank you, I appreciate your kind words.

sdlaura · June 2013

Scout2005:
L12541, I'm so sorry for your loss and that you had to be in that position. We made our choice for the very same reason.

Thanks, Scout, I'm sorry for your losses as well.

AmySmolos · June 2013

Scout2005:
How would you reconcile situations where the mother's life is in jeopardy? Or as I experienced first hand, when a pregnancy is not viable but not ending on it's own? Rape? Incest?nbsp; Whose "civil rights" win?nbsp;

As I say with a lot of hot topic debates I think these cases are the minority not majority. I get very heated on this topic too so I will just leave it be.

But I do see where the OP is going with the comparison but also see Scouts position that its not really related.

PaisleyRuth · June 2013

Saltylove:

More so, just because one person has the desire to carry the baby to term does not mean that everyone should have to, IMO, or that it is somehow the more ethical or noble thing to do.
Terminating a much wanted pregnancy would probably be the single most difficult decision anyone makes in their life, and anyone who assumes otherwise is a fool.

Just to be clear, in case this was directed at my story of my friend, I was not in any way trying to say that her decision was more ethical or noble. I brought it up only to say that her situation made me realize how complex the decision in such circumstances is. Terminating a pregnancy like that is a grief-filled, anguishing decision. Carrying to term is also a road filled with grief and anguish. There's no "easy" option. I do think in that type of scenario it's more of a "pulling the plug" type debate, versus abortion, when the baby has zero chance at life.

AmySmolos · June 2013

stephaniemthomas:
I'm just going to jump in here and say that I think most "prolife" people agree that terminating a pregnancy isn't something that should be outlawed completely, but instead should be used only under certain circumstances.nbsp; I don't know anyone personally who is prolife and thinks that a person in the situations that some of you ladies have been in doesn't have the right to terminate their pregnancy.nbsp; nbsp;::jumps back out::ETA: Big hugs to those who have been forced to make such a difficult decision.nbsp; I can't even imagine...

For the record my response was not meant to demean these situations at all. This is a separate circumstance and my heart aches to those who have had to go through this.

ashS10309 · June 2013

stephaniemthomas:
I'm just going to jump in here and say that I think most "prolife" people agree that terminating a pregnancy isn't something that should be outlawed completely, but instead should be used only under certain circumstances.nbsp; I don't know anyone personally who is prolife and thinks that a person in the situations that some of you ladies have been in doesn't have the right to terminate their pregnancy.nbsp; nbsp;::jumps back out::ETA: Big hugs to those who have been forced to make such a difficult decision.nbsp; I can't even imagine...

You took the words out of my mouth.

ashS10309 · June 2013

Scout2005:
stephaniemthomas:
I'm just going to jump in here and say that I think most "pro-life" people agree that terminating a pregnancy isn't something that should be outlawed completely, but instead should be used only under certain circumstances.  I don't know anyone personally who is pro-life and thinks that a person in the situations that some of you ladies have been in doesn't have the right to terminate their pregnancy. 
 ::jumps back out::
ETA: Big hugs to those who have been forced to make such a difficult decision.  I can't even imagine...
The thing is, technically, if you agree there are situations in which abortion is permissible, you are pro-choice. Not pro-life.
Which is why those titles tend to be misleading. 

I never really thought of it this way but that's a great point as usual scout.

:: exits again:::

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