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Holly_1007
member
Well this sucks.. Update and a Question
Holly_1007
member
Looks like we won't be going back to court anytime in the near future. The judge dismissed our Contempt charges (without prejudice thankfully).
There is a handwritten line in the CO that states "As the child gets older the mother and father can negotiate additional time with the father including additional overnights as long as the request is within a reasonable time period" (that isn't the EXACT wording, but its pretty close) Anyway, the judge basically said that BM is technically negotiating. DH requests time, BM says no, but that is still considered negotiating. We were hoping that BM constantly saying "no" was going to get us in front of the judge, but it won't because he feels that she is "negotiating".
The judge also didn't find a significant change in circumstances has come up which warrants a modification of the CO. My mind is still blown about this one. The CO hasn't been touched since they divorced 6 years ago. In that 6 years BM has moved, we have moved, BM got married, DH got married, siblings have been born, SD has changed schools etc etc. (plus, our 3 years worth of documentation of BM revoking visitation, signing SD up for school, doctors apts, health issues, without DH's consent etc)
So unless we can agree to something outside of court (that will NEVER happen) or something SIGNIFICANT happens, we are SOL.
At one point I got really frustrated with DH's attorney because he basically said "Look, you guys have the kid EOWE, and for a few hours every week, the judge is going to look at that and you guys have a LOT of parenting time already, I'm not sure if you will be awarded more" My mind is still blown. I mean, DH see's his kid 1-2x a week, and that's "a lot"? Just frustrating that the court systems favor the mother SO much. Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of issues with the way that BM raises SD, but in general SD has a roof over her head, clothes on her back and food in her belly, so she isn't neglected by the courts definition, but if you look just underneath the surface, this kid is NOT doing okay. I guess this conversation just opened my eyes a little that the judges really don't get into that.
So, onto my question. One of our big things with going back to court was to get BM to split the driving. Asking her to do 50/50 is not an awful thing, right? The transportation was never addressed in the original CO. Our state guidlines say that Transportation should be agreed upon by the parties or ordered by a judge, so there isn't much help there. BM has always said "you want her, come get her and bring her back" and DH has always done that. (so yeah, part of this is his fault for not making her do some of the driving in the beginning) So what can we do at this point?
I'm tempted to encourage DH to have a conversation with BM and just be like "look, enough is enough. Its not COed that I do the driving, and I'm done doing it. I will pick her up at X time, and when my visitation is over at X day/time you can come get her, I'm not bringing her back out there." He isn't technically witholding her, he is just refusing to drive. Is that a bad idea? She will flip, I'm sure, and most likely revoke our wednesdays for a while (those aren't CO'ed) but I have read that agreement front to back, and from the research I have done, it isn't illegal for him to not bring her back, he is making the child available at X time, just at our house. Also? I'm pretty sure BM is going to need a break from SD with all the time off she has over summer and BM will offer the Wednesdays back in a few weeks.
Like I said, it could be years before BM crosses the line or there is enough of a change to go back to court, so even if we do this 1 thing "out of line" (which IMO isn't really out of line, we are just asking to split driving) We still have the 3 years worth of documentation on all the stunts she has pulled to use against her when/if we ever get back to modify the agreement.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Well this sucks.. Update and a Question
I would indeed force her hand with the driving, it worked here. BM would call the skids and say "I am on my way! After I pick you up we are going to dinner at XYZ like we planned, cannot wait to see you!" When she was late she would pick up the phone when DH called and say she was in traffic. After an hour she would say "I never left, hahahahaha ruined your evening!" or send the skids texts that said "tell that ahole you call Dad that I am not on my way and he has to drive you out here. Make him feed you dinner." She enjoyed her time without the kids, though, so DH just refused to pick them up. Magically they appeared here at 4 on Fridays, and DH returned them on Sundays. Not once did BM fail to drop them off.
The courts here are also pro mom to an absurd degree. When DH was laid off a few years back he filed to reduce CS 6 MONTHS after not finding work - ie he paid as long as he could and burned through savings first. They reduced it by less than half (not what is in the statutes) and said it was unfair to the mother to not do that; it was not her problem that DH wasn't working.
If DH cares, don't give up. File again. And again. And again. Until a judge will actually LOOK at things seriously. Saying no over and over isn't negotiating, ffs. Negotiating is to make deals and bargains, and negotiating involves some compromising.
And, I'm not sure what the other ladies would say, but I would stop driving SD back to BM. If BM wants SD back, she can get her @ss up and come pick her up. And then if she refusing SD to you guys on the next visit, file contempt.
And there's a precedent set regarding the Wednesday evening visits, but BM revokes those whenever she wants (like when Halloween fell on a Wednesday.)
Yeah I agree...she sucks big donkey you know whats.....but if your judge is THAT freakin blind (regarding what constitutes a significant change - you had many) I just worry that the precedent has been set and he would favor her.
By all means it is worth a shot, and I would TOTALLY do it. As a matter of fact I am in such a $hitty mood I think I would do pick up and then after the fact tell her via text oh by the way...BM you can pick up at the end of visit time.
Your judge is an A$$
This isn't what you asked, but I have a big problem with YH being okay with rocking the boat with BM on transportation (an issue of his convenience) and not okay with doing it to get SD to a therapist.
I don't have an opinion either way on your transportation issue. If forcing this issue will pave the road to him standing up for SD in other areas, go for it I guess.
Ah I forgot to update you guys on that. DH met with the guidance counselor and the principal because he couldn't get a straight story out of BM, apparently the strip tease BM told us about was a crock. SD and a few otheer girls were talking about privates in the back corner of the library. 2 of the girls showed theirs and SD did as well. It was definitely still wrong to do and SD had a talk with the guidance counselor, BM, DH and Myself about it but the guidance counselor felt that it was "just her age, curiosity, exploring her body" etc. The guidance counselor didn't get the impression that SD needs to see a specialist, but she was willing to meet with SD every couple of weeks over summer and continue to see her when school resumes in the fall.
I hear what you are saying, and I'm just thinking out loud, but Like I said, it could be years before we get in front of a judge. She can't file contempt on us for not returning SD, its not CO'ed and we aren't witholding SD.
so when would the precedent come into play?
But by your argument you cannot file contempt on her for Wednesdays because it is not COd so the whole situation sucks and I have a feelin your DH will not rock the boat especially since the consequence will be lost time with his child.
We had this same transportation problem with BM. The CO says the parties should split the driving, but BM would come up with a million excuses as to why she couldn't do her share. Finally DH got sick of it and told her he wasn't bringing K to her. He cited the CO and said something along the lines of "Pursuant to the CO, we are to split the driving. I picked up on XX day, therefore you will need to pick up K from us on XX day at XX time." She refused to pick up, called the police and we showed them the CO. The police flat out told her that we were not withholding K from her and she was more than capable of picking her up and admonished her for making a false report. Obviously every State, every Police Department and every situation is different. But in our situation it worked out.
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Another hit for making her split the driving.
We have no CO, and we play it just like that. If Ex wants him, he can drive over here and come get him. When I want him back, I drive over there and go get him.
As others have warned, it will probably get hairy. Ex just isn't reliable with pick-up times. We use our EOW when DS is at his dads to go on dates and to do home improvements. A lot of times DS doesn't get picked up till bedtime, therefore messing with our plans. Of course, we don't mind having him the extra time one bit, but it just sucks when you are planning to catch a movie or meet up with friends. I started adding in a little line like this "You can pick him up between 4 & 6 on friday (if this was the already agreed upon time- so if he said 5, I would say between 4 &6). If you aren't here by 6, and don't have a valid excuse, then we are continuing with our weekend as planned." This basically means we may or may not be home. We are taking DS with us if we want to go somewhere.
Sadly, this happened on Father's Day this year. Ex was supposed to be here at 9, so we left at 10, and didn't get back until noon. He picked him up at 12:30. His loss.
As for the other stuff I think this is why the child welfare, family court system in our country is doomed. One person's opinion rules the day and they usually only get a quick 10 second look into the situation. Very easy to get it WRONG and not enough true checks and balances in the system to really make an accurate, informed decision
I agree with this. Let the driving thing go. Doesn't BM drive the kid around to/from places during the rest of the week? So twice a week your DH has to do the driving to see his daughter. When your SK is with you, do you complain about driving her to/from her activities or other places? I just don't see the big fairness issue. It would break my heart to hear my parents say things like "you want her, you come get her". Also, I'm not trying to be snarky at all. I just think if you look at it differently and take BM out of the argument all together, all parents have to chauffeur their kids around. And we are all adults and learned that life isn't fair a long time ago. Like PP said above, look at it as quality time she can spend with your DH alone.
Ita w this. In our state the judge you get changes every year or so sadly. We had an awesome judge first, and then later a terrible judge. I mean typos, total misunderstanding of the facts in the preliminary, etc terrible. It's scary that quality varies so much when these are the people deciding our fates!
So to understand op, you can only go to court if it's contempt.... You can't go for any other reason? That seems odd. For us, we can go for any reason except custody. For custody we have to go to mediation first.
And re the therapy thing, I am glad your bm overinflated the issue, but in your last post you mentioned other changes in her behavior that were concerning. I still think she'd benefit frm therapy based on what you had posted. Just my opinion tho.
We can go to court if BM blatantly violates the agreement, or if there is a "significant" change. IDK what will even constitute a "significant" change at this point, since there were several that we already tried to go to court for and the judge ruled them not significant enough. Also, in our state you get the same judge every time, until they retire/ move etc. So this is the same judge that did their divorce 6 yrs ago.
For clarification, I haven't even presented this idea to DH yet, I don't even know if he will go along with it. I'm just sick of us doing all the driving, I'm sick of hearing him whine about doing the driving. If DH gets called into work, I have to pack all 3 kids into the car, interrupting naptime half the time, to bring SD home while BM and her H are BOTH home, sitting on their azzes watching TV. I'm sick of BM say she will pick SD up, and then she doesn't so we have to re-work our plans to make sure SD gets home on time. If BM were a few minutes away, or even conveniently located regarding what we typically do for weekend activities I wouldn't mind as much, that's not the case at ALL.
Regarding the therapy thing. I have been saying that she should be in therapy for years, like I have said (and asked) multiple times, I don't know how to push that even more. I encouraged DH to get SD to speak to the guidance counselor at school, which she did weekly all year. From whatever conversations DH and the guidance counselor have had throughout the school year, he doesn't feel the need to push the issue even further. I don't know the full extent of those conversations. I do know that BM doesn't believe that SD should see the guidance counselor, so isn't giving her input. For example BM (and SD) told us that when BM's other DD has therapy SD gets very jealous, and acts out. 9 times out of 10 she ends up locked in her room because she gets out of control. When they lock her in her room she screams at the top of her lungs until they let her out. Sometimes this is 1.5-2 hours. SD and BM aren't going to willingly volunteer the information, DH mentions it to the guidance counselor, SD downplays it, and BM won't even talk about it. DH blames it on BM's crappy parenting, and voila all fingers point in different directions.
So I have a copy of SD's health insurance card. At this point I have 2 options regarding the therapy. Go behind my DH's back, use BM's health insurance card, and get SD an apt with a therapist. or have DH add SD to our health insurance, worry that BM finds out about it and cancels her health insurance on SD (or files contempt on us, because she is CO'ed to carry the insurance) and use that to sign SD up for counseling. I cannot afford to pay for it OOP. Also, keep in mind DH and BM both think SD doesn't need to see a counselor, so I'm just setting myself up for a nasty confrontation.