Feel like I'm the bad mom re:daycare and BF

financialdiva · June 2013

DS2 is EBF. He'll be five months old on Friday. He is 19.5 lbs. Yes, 19.5lbs. I also EBF DS1 for 14 months, so this BF thing is not new to me.

DS2 mostly gets four 4oz bottles at daycare, fed on demand, mostly every 2-2.5 hours. I pump 15-17oz a day. I serve what I pump. I send in a fifth bottle just in case of spills, heating and then he falls asleep, extra hungry that day, etc.

They asked me to start sending in larger bottles. They think he needs more milk. Problem is, I don't have more milk to send. And I know he doesn't need more milk, I know he just wants to suck on something. I told them to offer a paci, they keep telling me, no he needs more milk. Plus, they keep bugging me to start baby food. I keep telling them soon, but not yet.

I know what I'm doing. I am confident that not giving him solids yet is the right choice (we are actually planning on starting this weekend in the evenings only, until we go through all the veggies and fruits). He nurses four times with me. That's eight feedings. He's 19.5lbs! He has enough diapers. Clearly he is getting enough. How do I tell them this without coming across as rude? I am grateful they care enough about my child to give me suggestions. But everytime I say no or just shake my head okay and not do it, I feel like they look at me like I'm starving my child. Suggestions? I feel like such a newb!

Clynnpollock · June 2013

Can you tell them you have discussed your DS's feeding needs (solid and bottles) with your pedi and this is what you have decided together is appropriate for your DS at this time?

Pips09 · June 2013

I agree with you on the solids. But on the bottles, I wouldn't limit his feeding at all. If they think he is still hungry, I would let them offer him the bigger bottles to see if he eats them. If you don't have enough milk, then send formula, or pump extra to come up with the milk. He may be hungrier than you think, as they suggest he is.

aglenn · June 2013

DS is a big boy as well and never took more than 16 oz. I agree that he is getting enough. DS did go through a phase around that age, though, where he would get upset when other kids were getting bottles. He just liked his bottles, it was not actual hunger. Maybe that is what is going on? For us it was temporary because soon enough he started solids and they could offer him some Cheerios or something when he started doing that.

pitterpatter129 · June 2013

They are used to formula babies that take 8oz bottles. I'd explain how bm works first. Calories increase as the baby gets older naturally and they don't need to take in greater volumes. Formula has the same amount of calories per ounce no matter what, so they need more volume to get more calories. Then I'd print off how to bottle feed a breastfed baby off Kellymom, as well as the other breastmilk handouts she has on there for daycares. They also need to be told that the AAP does not recommend starting solids until after 6 months of age!! People sometimes take their daycare's advice because they figure they deal with babies all day long...therefore the daycare needs to be up-to-date on the current recommendations of what is safe and appropriate for babies. In the end, it's your kid and you get the final say.

financialdiva · June 2013

Thank you all for your responses.

Estwd I guess the way I came up with the 4 ounces a bottle was the fact that I pump on avg 16 ounces a day and DS2 nurses on demand every 2 to 2.5 hours with me, so that equals 4 bottles at daycare and I divide what I pump over 4 bottles.

I have a huge freezer stash, so I can definitely dip into that. I just don't want him to be over fed. I also feel like he is getting 8 feeding a total a day if he takes 16oz in bottles, and even if he is only taking 3oz with me to be conservative for those 4 other feedings, that is 28 oz a day, which is on the higher end for a BF baby.

If I give him larger bottles, is he going to go longer between feedings or are the teachers just going to automatically assume he is hungry every time he fusses? I want to discuss this with them without coming off as rude though, know what I mean? :]

skyejo · June 2013

I went through this exact same situation with both DD1 and DD2 (with two different sets of teachers) and I struggled with how to deal with it. I felt like the girls were eating enough BM which was three 4 to 4.5oz bottles (didn't start solids until 6 months). DC said they were still sucking at the end of the bottle and were upset when the milk was gone.

While I felt like they were eating enough, I'm not there during the day. I have no reason not to believe the teachers so if the girls were still hungry after a bottle I told them to add more from the extra bottle I bring. For a while I said no, just feed them what I brought, but then when I put myself in their shoes I changed my mind. Having a baby who wants another ounce or so and just having them cry because mom said no is a tough situation for everyone.

I do think it's tough for caregivers to realize that BF babies will drink less per bottle then formula babies. With both girls I was and am the only mom who pumps so it's not the norm at my center.

gingerfamily · June 2013

Have you ever actually given him a bottle? He may be getting more than 4oz per feeding from you (since babies are better at getting out milk than a pump is). And, if that's the case - it's possible he is hungry.

My suggestion is to give him a bottle yourself and see how he acts after that 4 oz bottle. This will help you determine if he is actually hungry or just needs to suck.

mben1119 · June 2013

Estwd2:
Also about how you decided to give 4 oz bottles - the amount you pump may not be what he takes in at each feeding at the breast. Babies empty the breast much better than a pump, so he may actually be getting more than 4 oz each feeding at the breast. He really might need more than 4 oz.

This. DS took almost 6 oz per bottle in BM before we switched to formula, because I could not keep up with him pumping. DS legitimately needed more than 4 oz per bottle.

Karla CS · June 2013

I'm having the same problem at daycare. My husband watched the baby for the first two weeks and she was happy with 4x3oz bottles, eating every 2 hours or so. She would fuss for a few seconds once it was empty, and then be fine. (She also does this when she nurses). After day 1, daycare asked for bigger bottles because they thought she was still hungry and so they could stretch out the time between feedings.. So I gave them bigger bottles, but she still wanted to eat every 2 hours and ran out of milk. If I didn't know that she was more than happy on the amount she was having at home with dad, I would agree with them, but at this point, I'm at a loss.

cedenton · June 2013

If you haven't already I'd post this on the BF'ing board. They'll tell you this is a common issue with DCPs. Stick to your guns. 4oz bottles is the norm for BF'ing babies. He's healthy, he's growing, etc.

Tell them your pedi said no solids before 6 mos. (or 9 if you're waiting that long).

Bottom line you know your child and you do what's right for him and your BF'ing relationship.

If they continue to pressure you talk to the Director and let them know it's a closed issue.

It sounds like they want to feed him whenever he fusses instead of offering the paci or comforting him.

mexicolombiana · June 2013

I totally know how you feel. I remember my aunt also wanted to give more milk to my EBF daughter. People mean well but you just have to stick to your guns! Sounds like you're doing everything you can, just don't send more milk.

mittensonkittens · June 2013

I had this problem with my oldest. One teacher in particular kept telling me that DS wanted more and I should send formula. He was a 95th percentile baby on BM alone, I did not think he needed anything else. I just kept telling them to comfort him if he cries at the end of the bottle. You're almost ready to start solids, just hold out a little longer and then you can send solids and they will leave you alone. My pedi also suggested offering water when the BM was gone if he still wanted more. I sent what I pumped, and it was 3 bottles of between 4 and 5 oz each. That amount was in line with what the calculators on kellymom told me he should be drinking.

boogerbearoriginal · June 2013

I wouldn't like that they keep pushing the issue. You've said no to solids and no to milk. Have they said WHY they think more milk? What precisely is giving them the impression that's what he wants/needs? I would press them to explain what's going on that they are insistent about more foods. Then go from there as to how to address whatever their issue is.

I agree with PPs that most babies will drink a 9oz bottle if offered, doesn't mean they need that much. It's so easy to overfed a baby especially if he has a strong sucking urge. Will he not take a paci?

If you feel that he is fine, and it sounds like he is, then I would politely but firmly say that you are not sending more milk and not starting solids yet, and that both items need to be dropped. If you need to drop the "pedi says he's fine" to make a point, I would do that too.

Mjmksb04 · June 2013

amy052006:
gingerfamily:
Have you ever actually given him a bottle? He may be getting more than 4oz per feeding from you (since babies are better at getting out milk than a pump is). And, if that's the case - it's possible he is hungry.

My suggestion is to give him a bottle yourself and see how he acts after that 4 oz bottle. This will help you determine if he is actually hungry or just needs to suck.

Honestly -- this would never work for us.
Both of my kids would take way less from a bottle given by me than anyone else -- they wanted to nurse.
And both of them would suck an eight ounce bottle dry if given the opportunity. It's very, very easy to overfeed a bottle fed baby.

What are you talking about with "overfeeding"? Babies are not going to eat more than they need. I think all of this talk of overfeeding is a bunch of nonsense.

AppleJacks81 · June 2013

So I'm a FF mom but i notice different eating patterns at home vs daycare. DD turns 5 months next week and I send 4 - 6 oz bottles to daycare and usually come home with 1 -1.5 left. She eats differently there than she does at home. They say at daycare she gets mad if they offer her a bottle too early, and when she is finally hungry she inhales the 6 oz bottle. This is different than days off with me - she "grazes" more all day with me and won't really drink all 6 oz at once. Maybe your kiddo is doing the same?

I'm sure it's frustrating for you. I would do what a PP poster suggested to try to get ahead to be able to send bigger bottles. I just couldn't stand the thought of her fussing at them all day because she is possibly hungry. At least try it and if he doesn't need it, you've made your point! I'd give them the benefit of the doubt, they are just going off experience from dealing with other babies. No one does it as good as you, but you have to give them what they think they need to keep your baby happy!

mandy522 · June 2013

Honestly, if you're that conflicted over it, I would do a weighed feeding with an LC. 4 oz might be the norm for BF babies, but there is a big range. At the end of the day, it's really impossible to know how much he's getting at the breast without a weighed feeding.

Also, I often hear how easy it is to overfeed a bottle fed baby, but I also hear how good BF babies are about self regulating. I'm not an LC, but I do know that by 5 mos my LO would push bottles away when he was done, so certainly by 5 months some babies will regulate themselves with a bottle no matter how much you offer.

You could look for a drop in clinic - we have one at a local baby store and at several area hospitals, and they are much less expensive that a personal LC appt.

It's a tough situation to be in, but you will figure it out. GL!

mandy522 · June 2013

Mjmksb04:
amy052006:
gingerfamily:
Have you ever actually given him a bottle? He may be getting more than 4oz per feeding from you (since babies are better at getting out milk than a pump is). And, if that's the case - it's possible he is hungry.

My suggestion is to give him a bottle yourself and see how he acts after that 4 oz bottle. This will help you determine if he is actually hungry or just needs to suck.

Honestly -- this would never work for us.
Both of my kids would take way less from a bottle given by me than anyone else -- they wanted to nurse.
And both of them would suck an eight ounce bottle dry if given the opportunity. It's very, very easy to overfeed a bottle fed baby.
What are you talking about with "overfeeding"? Babies are not going to eat more than they need. I think all of this talk of overfeeding is a bunch of nonsense.

Piece of advice, don't post this on the breastfeeding board

It's quite a bit easier for a baby to take milk from the bottle than from the breast, and also on the breast babies can comfort nurse without actually drinking any milk, which they can't do from a bottle. So it IS possible to overfeed a breastfed baby with a bottle.

But I personally think the problem a little overblown, especially when it comes to bottle size. (Although I am certainly not an LC, so my opinion is really worthless Smile ). Babies' feeding habits vary, just like adults' do. If your baby sucks down a bottle no matter the size, then it is certainly something to watch out for, but some kids are done when they are done, and nothing you can do will make them eat more.

financialdiva · June 2013

Thank you all for your responses.

I have contacted my pedi to do a weighed feeding tomorrow morning [she has the scale I can use and I did one there when DS2 was first born]

I think I am also leaning toward sending in two 5 oz bottles for the two morning feedings and two 3.5 or 4 ounce bottles in the afternoon to see how he does.

Thanks again.

ilovemygirls · June 2013

mben1119:
Estwd2:
Also about how you decided to give 4 oz bottles - the amount you pump may not be what he takes in at each feeding at the breast. Babies empty the breast much better than a pump, so he may actually be getting more than 4 oz each feeding at the breast. He really might need more than 4 oz.
This. DS took almost 6 oz per bottle in BM before we switched to formula, because I could not keep up with him pumping. DS legitimately needed more than 4 oz per bottle.

I understood from a LC that babies are much more efficient getting milk out of the breast than a pump is. So he could very well be getting more out of the breast than 4oz per feeding. I could never pump enough to keep up with my kids, so I always supplemented with formula. If you have no more bm to send, I think you may need to consider supplementing w/formula at daycare to make sure he is not getting hungry.

MammaBear81 · June 2013

Pips09:
I agree with you on the solids. But on the bottles, I wouldn't limit his feeding at all. If they think he is still hungry, I would let them offer him the bigger bottles to see if he eats them. If you don't have enough milk, then send formula, or pump extra to come up with the milk. He may be hungrier than you think, as they suggest he is.

If she feeds him on the weekend and he's not hungry for more, I don't see the reasoning to send bigger bottles.

I like the suggestion of telling them you spoke to your pedi and this is what you hav agreed is the right amount for your LO.

MickeyM04 · June 2013

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you here. I'm sure they are probably telling you he needs more because he's finishing the bottles and acting still hungry (fussing, crying, etc.) or they are having to feed him another bottle soon after he finishes. They are with him all day and I'm sure what they are telling you is the truth. Not to be rude, but it sounds more like you're basing the decision on the fact that you don't have more milk to give rather than on what you think he may need, and I don't think that is the best decision to make. If you can't pump more for him, then you can always supplement with formula. But I can't imagine saying to the daycare, "No, I don't have more BM so this is what he gets." You could at least try sending bigger bottles one day and see how it goes. If you pick him up and they say he didn't finish his bottles, then you can go back to what you were doing. Or at the very least, talk to your pediatrician about it and see what he/she says. I would, however, be very surprised if your ped said that you shouldn't give him more just because you don't have more to give. I'm sure he will probably say to follow his cues. That's just my humble opinion.

I do hear you on the solids. That's your choice to make and there's no need to start them yet. But if he is not on solids yet it would make sense that he would need more milk. At 5 months, my DS was taking about 20 oz at daycare, so this does not sound out of the ordinary to me.

xcjump · June 2013

This sounds like a good plan. I agree with PP that each baby is different, but sometimes daycares do tend to sooth by giving the bottle. My daughter, Maddie is also 5 months old today and she drinks about 9 ounces at daycare. I think it is important to know how many hours you are away from baby and if baby is up at night. Good luck!