Night weaning 2yo... three weeks in still terrible

carawaynow · June 2013

I'm having a hard time night weaning my 2 yo DD, and I wondered if anyone had any insight/experiences to share. Sorry this is such a long detailed post from a lurker. I think I just need to get it all out!

A little background: I unexpectedly got a part time job after being a SAHM. She was still nursing at LEAST every two hours all night long, and usually every hour, so I knew I had to do something to be able to function in an academic setting again. So three weeks ago I started night weaning, and two weeks ago she started daycare MWF full days. She still nurses to sleep for naps on days we're together.

I had tried night weaning her before (when she just turned 2) but gave up because we traveled internationally and in the states and it just didn't seem worth it. But based on that experience (I tried just getting her to sleep with out nursing but continued nursing through out the night), I decided it would be easier for us both to do cold turkey no nursing to sleep and no nursing until 5am, at which point she will nurse and dose.

So the first 3-4 nights were awesome - she cried hard and was very angry at first, but fell asleep quickly and slept for like 5 hr stretches which was AMAZING. Then it started to fall apart - she started to take longer and longer to fall asleep, and started waking more often and needing me to help her back asleep.

On a typical night now, here's how it goes: Dinner, maybe bath, pajamas, nurse, books, bed. I lay in her floor bed (in our room) with her and pretend I'm asleep. She cries asking for water (I give it to her once but not after that), new diaper (also change once if wet), to get up, to have me sit up, etc etc. I ignore her and pretend I'm asleep for the most part, and put her back in bed if she tries to get out. Then she plays for quite a while, talking to herself or her stuffed animal, etc. Anywhere from 30min - 2hrs later, she fusses a little and then falls asleep. Then through out the night she wakes up crying, sometimes falls right back asleep if I lay down with her, sometimes wants me to rock her in bed (which I probably shouldn't do, but am soooo tired), sometimes goes back to sleep quickly but sometimes is up crying/dosing off and on for hours - last night it was 1.5hrs. She still wakes up almost every 2hrs or so. Then at 5 I nurse her and she sleeps/nurses until anywhere between 7:30am and 9:45am depending on how much she was up crying.

Ugh. I feel like this is not getting better. I'm sure it has to do with 2 big changes at once (daycare and nightweaning), and of course I'm stressed about being back in the classroom again. Just not sure what to do differently, if anything. I feel sooooo terrible that this is so rough for her. Daycare is also rough - she cries a lot at drop off, etc, although she does have fun there too, and it's a fantastic center that I absolutely trust so that helps. Any words of wisdom?

ETA: She has a clock in her room with all but the first number blocked off, and she knows to look at it and that she can nurse when it says 5. This morning she was crying off and on and when it turned 5 she bolted up right and said "It's FIVE now!!! Now we can have some nuh-num!!" so she definitely gets that part of it.

tokenhoser · June 2013

Do you have a partner that can help at night? Removing the temptation of boobs may help the process.

What time is bed time? You may need to move bed time later for a while so that falling asleep doesn't take so long. My 2 year old has moved toward an 8 or 8:30 bedtime now that it's summer (more light) and he's taking 2 hour afternoon naps (previously, his naps were shorter).

I would really try to not be in bed with her when she falls asleep. A Sleep Lady Shuffle style strategy might work - sitting in the room and slowly moving farther away as the nights go on.

carawaynow · June 2013

Partner can't really help because he's only home for bedtime about 20% of the time. He does help when he can (or take over) but he can't consistently take over for a week or anything.

Bed time is way too fluid. I know I need to a have a firm, consistent bedtime, it's just hard because sometimes she naps late, or I have a meeting, etc, and it gets pushed back. She also has to take medication at night that takes FOREVER to get her to finish, leading to late bedtime. I try to have her in bed by 8/830, but sometimes it's 9/930, meaning she doesn't fall asleep until 11pm sometimes. Ugh I feel terrible typing that. I swear I'm a good parent in other ways, don't know why it's a such a struggle to have a consistent bedtime

I'll have to look into the sleep lady - for some reason I thought it would be easier to lay down with her but it's obviously not working. Thanks for the suggestions!!

tokenhoser · June 2013

I'm just re-reading Ferber's book because we've got our own issues. Wink

if you haven't read it, give it a chance. I think he would tell you to start with a bedtime that you know will work - even if it's 10 or 11 pm. Then get her going to sleep on her own, without you there. Then back up the bed time to a more reasonable hour. It SUCKS to spend hours trying to get a kid to sleep.

cpmich · June 2013

Check the Dr. jay Gordon method for nightweaning. It worked well for us.

nosoup4u · June 2013

It took forever to night wean DS2. He was a bit younger than your DD, but I took almost a full year, with lots of backward slides. So hang in there!

I don't think lying down with kids is a bad thing. I lie down with DS2, but sit at the end of his bed or on the floor if he acts goofy or isn't trying to go to sleep. Maybe something like that would work with your DD?

Having a clear bedtime routine might make a big difference, too. And we remind them that this is the LAST book, lights are going off after x, stuff like that. I actually made a bedtime book for DS2 - we took photos of him doing his bedtime routine (basically brushing teeth, PJs, diaper, nursing, and then lying in bed). I took it to a copy shop and the laminated and bound it. DS2 wasn't that impressed, but I think it might help some kids to see what's next and what the deal is. hth!

cesehorn · June 2013

Hang in there. Is she eating a good dinner? I know it helped tremendously to night wean our LO if she was well fed throughout the day. Even still, if she doesn't eat well for dinner then she doesn't sleep well that night.

carawaynow · June 2013

Thanks for all the feedback. It's nice to know I'm not the only one to run into trouble! I will look at Ferber - I've heard the book has good info!

We basically did the Dr Jay method - only difference is not nursing to sleep which I think works better for her - she understands better that "nuh num is sleeping."

I know the inconsistent bedtime is bad. We are super consistent with the bedtime *routine* (and have been since she had a bed time around 3 months) - the only difference is sometimes we skip the bath now to save time. The hardest part is trying to get her to finish her medicine - it can take an hour - which is hard to fit in. Before she started taking that, (and before I was working) she had a more consistent bedtime. I've also been very consistent with not nursing till 5am. She knows that after we're done nursing we're really done.

I thought about moving her bedtime to 930 every night since that would be consistent - but then I'd have to wake her in the morning for daycare. Do you think it's better to do that than to put her to bed at different times?

She eats pretty well - a lot more now that she's not nursing all night. What she eats doesn't seem to influence her sleep much - one of the nights she slept really well all she ate for dinner was raw tomatoes and ketchup! Damn toddlers are impossible to figure out

Thanks again for all the feedback and suggestions!

tokenhoser · June 2013

She probably needs around 12 hours of sleep per 24 hours - so a consistent 930 bedtime will work if she will sleep "late" (until at least 7:30) and take a 2 hour nap. If you need her up earlier than that (or if she gets up earlier than that despite being tired) or won't nap that long, she needs to be in bed earlier and I would try really hard to readjust your schedule to get her that sleep.

Firm boundaries and clear expectations are key - DS recently moved to a twin bed and keeps popping out rather than going to sleep. We've had to do a few short "time outs" in his crib to drive home that he must stay in bed at bedtime - he's so insulted by the crib now that 30-60 seconds in there and he stays in bed and goes to sleep after that. Probably not an AP-approved solution, but I've always been about doing what works being balanced with doing what's "right" by the theories.

DCMerged · June 2013

Consistency is important, and I can only say that as I am one of the worst offenders in my house in that department. I look at his little face and just want to do anything and everything that he wants even if I know it is making our sleep not ideal. My LO is only 11 months old, but I read posts like yours and think I am on that path to having a 2 yo still nursing every 2 hours at night. It is so hard. We are just coming down off an out of town trip and also looking to cut down the night feedings. I have read every sleep book, including Ferbers and actually just read there the parts about "limit setting" which might help you as well. Even if you don't believe in sleep training, I third that the book has good info and might change the way you look at habits and limits.

cpmich · June 2013

Wait, so your 2 year old doesn't nurse at all from bedtime to 5:30 am? This isn't a nightweaning problem? What time is bedtime?

It sounds like your kid is overstimulated and adjusting to having you go back to work, nightweaning, and going to daycare... That is a lot of change in a short time. Nightmares are also common at this age. Plus seasonal things like daylight savings, changing sunlight and weather wreck havoc on sleep patterns of kids even when everything else is normal.

Kids that age need 12 to 14 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period. Is she getting it? If she is getting enough sleep, she may just need some time to get used to all of the changes. Forcing it might make it worse.

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Night weaning 2yo... three weeks in still terrible

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