SD finally called DH this morning...

irishgirl0525 · June 2013

...To tell him that she is "now ready to talk to him" about her issues with our having a baby. I've posted before that when he called her to tell her the news she wouldn't let him get the words out and told him she "can't talk about this" and he hasn't heard from her in 2 1/2 weeks.

Apparently, she just moved out of her BF's apartment back to her mother's house this weekend, so she is in the area again and he is picking her up tonight to go to the diner so they can talk. (We knew she was planning to move out in the next month, but they had a fight and that precipitated her calling her mother to take her back in after not speaking to HER for the last 3 months).

On the phone she told him that she has issues with some of his "personal choices" and that she is willing to talk to him again but there will be some restrictions and conditions for this to happen. Well excuse me.

He said he will hear her out and respond. He told me she probably won't like what he has to say in response, but that all depends on what she has to say. He has always remained calm with her (calmer than anyone else I know would be) and he isn't a yeller, but I know he'll stick to his guns where he needs to. Historically, everything is a test with her, and I'm sure that is what this is as well, it's just getting old.

I know this will cause major anxiety for him until it gets better and I feel bad about that. I'm nervous for his meeting with her tonight but I hope that something happens to start on the road to resolving this.

And because I really don't trust her at all and tend to assume the worst about her intentions, I am sure that the fact that there is a college tuition payment due for her next session in the next week or so is why she has reached out at this time.

Ok, I'll stop now until I actually have an idea of what she had to say to him before making anymore judgements.

10-4LilBuddy · June 2013

Advance warning I am an extremely crabby pregnant woman today...

However, what a bunch of baloney. She does not like his decisions? Tough cookies. He and you do not have to answer to her. If she does not like it, she can be independent and pay her own bills. If she is old enough to live outside the house, then she is old enough to be self sufficient. I am glad you said that he is going by himself and that he will stand his ground. You do not need that stress. She will eventually figure out that the world does not revolve around her and does not owe her anything. Grrrr.... Take care of yourself, hon.

xmaryrickx · June 2013

I think you are all out of your minds. This isn't a 12 year old we are talking about, this girl is clearly of adult age if she was old enough to be shacked up with her boyfriend. As such she is entitled to her opinion, as well she is entitled to put conditions on her adult relationship with her parent. Even if she is 19. She gets to feel however she damn well pleases, and can voice those opinions if she chooses. With making that choice though she has to face the consequences of her actions, and if whatever she has to say offends her father, and he chooses to not partake in the relationship she is establishing then that is on her.

Every time someone posts here about their own parents or their inlaws, the same things are said. You are an adult. You control the relationship as much as they do. You can decide not to have them in your life. You should tell them how you feel about the way they treat you, talk to you, treat your spouse, your kids, etc. if they don't respect your feelings, cut them off. Why is this any different???

irishgirl0525 · June 2013

i wish I could quote all of you at the same time. Believe me, I know all of what you said is true and she is behaving like a spoiled, entitled, bratty child. I am sure a lot of her resentment about this has to do with money, as in, we already don't give her the handouts that she would like so how can we afford to have a child, it will mean even less for her. And DH said the same thing without me even bringing it up. She has a lot of emotional issues and always has and I'm sorry about that, but she has never wanted to get better. I know that the idea of a new baby may be somewhat overwhelming for her and I swear, I was not expecting her to be overjoyed about it. But this is ridiculous.

And no Mel, we are not drug dealers or anything shady . We work very hard for what we have and he has always tried to do right by his girls, even when he was clearly paying a portion of a private school tuition that was specifically ruled by a judge that he was not obligated to pay and that he could. Not. Afford. (Stupid on his part I know).

I cannot wait for him to get home so I can hear what her demands and "boundaries" are. He said she used that word today on the phone but told me he is well aware of what boundaries are and that what she has in mind is actually emotional punishment, which he will not fall victim to.

He's on his way home now.

10-4LilBuddy · June 2013

wendilea:
Mary, I realize she is an adult but she can't have control over whether or not her father continues to procreate.nbsp; If she needs time to process, fine.nbsp; If she doesn't want to include her dad anymore, then she can make that grownup decision.nbsp; But she can't give a list of "demands" of what he needs to do to be part of her life, and then turn around and expect her tuition to be paid.nbsp; It works both ways cut him off completely or not.

Agreed. This is what I meant as well. If she genuinely has an issue with her parents and feels that the relationship is destructive or limiting, then she can move on. But it can't be a punitive measure because she did not get her way and she cannot do it with her hand out for more money.

xmaryrickx · June 2013

10-4LilBuddy:
wendilea:
Mary, I realize she is an adult but she can't have control over whether or not her father continues to procreate.nbsp; If she needs time to process, fine.nbsp; If she doesn't want to include her dad anymore, then she can make that grownup decision.nbsp; But she can't give a list of "demands" of what he needs to do to be part of her life, and then turn around and expect her tuition to be paid.nbsp; It works both ways cut him off completely or not.

Agreed. This is what I meant as well. If she genuinely has an issue with her parents and feels that the relationship is destructive or limiting, then she can move on. But it can't be a punitive measure because she did not get her way and she cannot do it with her hand out for more money.

Was money mentioned somewhere? I missed that.

She absolutely has a right to say that your actions, whatever they are, hurt me. Even if that is him having another child. She is entitled to her opinion. She is absolutely entitled to say that bc of that hurt, I feel like I need xyz from you to move forward in our relationship. And he absolutely can say, too bad so sad, this is my life. But that doesn't make her entitled or bratty in and of itself. I cannot for one second imagine how I would have felt if at 18 plus my dad was all hey my new wife is KU. Oh sweet mofo. Granted my parents have been married for 45 years, but still. Regardless if it was a possibility or not it still has to sting. Any adult I can think of that has been in a similar situation really has no relationship with their father anymore, because ultimately its awkward and uncomfortable for all involved.

Phantomgirl · June 2013

Spooko:
xmaryrickx:
10-4LilBuddy:
wendilea:
Mary, I realize she is an adult but she can't have control over whether or not her father continues to procreate.nbsp; If she needs time to process, fine.nbsp; If she doesn't want to include her dad anymore, then she can make that grownup decision.nbsp; But she can't give a list of "demands" of what he needs to do to be part of her life, and then turn around and expect her tuition to be paid.nbsp; It works both ways cut him off completely or not.
Agreed. This is what I meant as well. If she genuinely has an issue with her parents and feels that the relationship is destructive or limiting, then she can move on. But it can't be a punitive measure because she did not get her way and she cannot do it with her hand out for more money.
Was money mentioned somewhere? I missed that. She absolutely has a right to say that your actions, whatever they are, hurt me. Even if that is him having another child. She is entitled to her opinion. She is absolutely entitled to say that bc of that hurt, I feel like I need xyz from you to move forward in our relationship. And he absolutely can say, too bad so sad, this is my life. But that doesn't make her entitled or bratty in and of itself. I cannot for one second imagine how I would have felt if at 18 plus my dad was all hey my new wife is KU. Oh sweet mofo. Granted my parents have been married for 45 years, but still. Regardless if it was a possibility or not it still has to sting. Any adult I can think of that has been in a similar situation really has no relationship with their father anymore, because ultimately its awkward and uncomfortable for all involved.
Yeah, money was mentioned. OP said that college tuition was due in a week or so, and she suddenly decided to call back after the silent treatment.

Then OP made a HUGE assumption.

fellesferie · June 2013

Your SD needs to decide whether she's an adult. I see some behavior that sounds adult-ish and some not so much. But regardless, I think YH should treat her like an adult.

If she wants to talk to her father grown-up to grown-up, then she has to be prepared to deal with the fall out of that. And if some of his 'personal choices' have hurt her, then I think it's fine that she talks to him about it. He can also let her know that her reaction has hurt both you and him.

If YH has agreed to pay for certain college expenses, his daughter's hurt feelings over your pregnancy shouldn't interrupt that. He can obviously set expectations for her behavior in exchange for his help, however.

Lavender P · June 2013

We need an update! I'm dying to know what her conditions were.
P.S. I hope everything went well. I'm sorry that what is supposed to e a happy event is being overshadowed by SD's drama.

hopanka · June 2013

I can tell you that from an ADULT child's point of view, it can be extremely disappointing when a parent chooses to have anew family with a way younger woman and start having babies when his peers are almost getting ready for grand babies. It is sort of embarrassing to the adult kids. Speaking from experience. You wish your dad didn't have this midlife crisis and just continued to be how you have always known him. Sometimes it even seems like he is being steamrolled by the new wife who is the driving force behind having new babies and he is going along with it in order to have a happy new home and wife. This also feels very disappointing to the adult kids. They always knew that dad was this strong role model, somebody to look up to, and this really tarnished the whole notion. As if he is not in charge anymore, sort of blinded by new love. So, I do see her side. Again, speaking from experience. No 20-year old is going to jump from joy in that situation. It is not happy times. You kinda mourn the idea you had about your dad and it takes a long time to come to grips with it.

irishgirl0525 · June 2013

Thanks for the support and comments. I will reply to some of them individually. I have been trying to sort out an update, but it was getting way too long so I'll try to narrow it down.Sorry about the different fonts, I copied and pasted so I didn't have my browser open at work all morning.

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Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} She brought up a lot of things with him, many of them going back to unresolved feelings or feelings she has never expressed as a result of his divorce from her mother. As background, he and his Ex separated in 2001 or 2002, so she was about 8 or 9. I may be wrong about the exact date, I didn?t meet him until 2006 and I have never been able to remember the date. Their divorce was finalized in 8/2005.

And just to clarify, yes, I do know that she is allowed to have all of those thoughts and feelings and feel that things that are unresolved. Over the years they have had counseling and many conversations and some rocky times in their relationship. There was a lot of parental alienation from BM, and clearly there are many things that even though she seemed to have come to terms with before, she has a lot to work through with her father.

As it relates to DH and me, she resents that he got remarried 4 years ago, and looks at it as a rejection of her and she looks at him having a baby as another way he is rejecting her. This is not a shock to me, but she is actually verbalizing it, so it's not speculation now.

She told him that she wants nothing to do with that part of his life, and yes, that is certainly her choice to make. She said that she doesn?t want to participate in any larger family events (involving her grandfather, aunt, uncle, cousin) if the baby and I are a part of it, and that she would hope that he would divide his holidays up between us and her, as she was forced to do as a child and that she didn?t have any choice in. I asked if she meant that he should spend part of Christmas with everyone else, and then leave and spend part of it with her, he said yes, that is what she meant. I don't know how he is planning on handling that, there are several months before that comes up, so this could all change by then.

She also could not say the word baby and used the word ?offspring? in a very negative context, which he told her that he didn?t ever want to hear her use that term to describe the baby again, and that if she could not say the word baby, she could say child, and that she doesn't have to talk about the baby at all after this conversation if she doesn't want to. She apologized and said fine, that she shouldn't have said it like that. I understand that offspring is not a bad word, but if he was as taken aback by her use of it as he was, then there is no doubt that she used it in a negative way.

All of this is her choice to make and I?m sorry that she feels that way. Now we know what her feelings are. It affects DH more than it does me, and I?m sorry about that. We'll work through it, and if she decides to come around when she is in a different state of mind, then we'll deal with it. Neither one of us is going to push the issue, there would be no point.

Again, I appreciate the input and thoughts from everyone.

irishgirl0525 · June 2013

Phantomgirl:
Spooko:
xmaryrickx:
10-4LilBuddy:
wendilea:
Mary, I realize she is an adult but she can't have control over whether or not her father continues to procreate.nbsp; If she needs time to process, fine.nbsp; If she doesn't want to include her dad anymore, then she can make that grownup decision.nbsp; But she can't give a list of "demands" of what he needs to do to be part of her life, and then turn around and expect her tuition to be paid.nbsp; It works both ways cut him off completely or not.
Agreed. This is what I meant as well. If she genuinely has an issue with her parents and feels that the relationship is destructive or limiting, then she can move on. But it can't be a punitive measure because she did not get her way and she cannot do it with her hand out for more money.
Was money mentioned somewhere? I missed that. She absolutely has a right to say that your actions, whatever they are, hurt me. Even if that is him having another child. She is entitled to her opinion. She is absolutely entitled to say that bc of that hurt, I feel like I need xyz from you to move forward in our relationship. And he absolutely can say, too bad so sad, this is my life. But that doesn't make her entitled or bratty in and of itself. I cannot for one second imagine how I would have felt if at 18 plus my dad was all hey my new wife is KU. Oh sweet mofo. Granted my parents have been married for 45 years, but still. Regardless if it was a possibility or not it still has to sting. Any adult I can think of that has been in a similar situation really has no relationship with their father anymore, because ultimately its awkward and uncomfortable for all involved.
Yeah, money was mentioned. OP said that college tuition was due in a week or so, and she suddenly decided to call back after the silent treatment.
Then OP made a HUGE assumption.

I said in my post that I don't trust her so that this is why I assumed that. I didn't make an assumption based on nothing, DH and SD have had several conversations over the months about money and what she feels she should be getting outside of college tuition, so I know that it's not outside of the realm of possibility that it crossed her mind that tuition is due soon.

Regardless of if they are talking or not, her tuition will be paid, he wouldn't withhold that from her if they are not speaking.

irishgirl0525 · June 2013

fellesferie:
Your SD needs to decide whether she's an adult. I see some behavior that sounds adult-ish and some not so much. But regardless, I think YH should treat her like an adult.
If she wants to talk to her father grown-up to grown-up, then she has to be prepared to deal with the fall out of that. And if some of his 'personal choices' have hurt her, then I think it's fine that she talks to him about it. He can also let her know that her reaction has hurt both you and him.
If YH has agreed to pay for certain college expenses, his daughter's hurt feelings over your pregnancy shouldn't interrupt that. He can obviously set expectations for her behavior in exchange for his help, however.

I agree with all of what you have said here, just wanted to also say that I usually agree with your comments on this board, thanks for the input.

Hopeforthebest · June 2013

I'm sorry, but sure this "adult child" is "entitled" to her feelings, but this girl sounds like a brat.

MOST responsible ADULTS can put feelings aside AT LEAST at the holidays. It would be one thing if she wasn't welcomed into your home, but I don't get the feeling that this is the case. It sounds like she is choosing to keep her relationship with daddy separated and feel victimized by his choice in moving on with his life. That is SELFISH in my opinion.

Good Luck OP. Sounds like your DH has a good head on his shoulders. Good for him for talking it out and standing his ground at the same time.

And congrats on the BABY. They are precious and don't let anyone ruin your experience.

irishgirl0525 · June 2013

hopanka:
I can tell you that from an ADULT child's point of view, it can be extremely disappointing when a parent chooses to have anew family with a way younger woman and start having babies when his peers are almost getting ready for grand babies. It is sort of embarrassing to the adult kids. Speaking from experience. You wish your dad didn't have this midlife crisis and just continued to be how you have always known him. Sometimes it even seems like he is being steamrolled by the new wife who is the driving force behind having new babies and he is going along with it in order to have a happy new home and wife. This also feels very disappointing to the adult kids. They always knew that dad was this strong role model, somebody to look up to, and this really tarnished the whole notion. As if he is not in charge anymore, sort of blinded by new love. So, I do see her side. Again, speaking from experience. No 20-year old is going to jump from joy in that situation. It is not happy times. You kinda mourn the idea you had about your dad and it takes a long time to come to grips with it.

My head is spinning a little from reading this. Because of the way this is worded, and I don't know if this was your intent but just your own experience, I feel very defensive about this. First of all, I am not a way younger woman, and I didn't steamroll him into anything and he is not having a midlife crisis. She may think any number of these things. That doesn't make it so. He is entitled to make a happy home, and not stop himself because she cannot or will not accept certain things about the realities of life, such as, the world does not revolve around her and her moods and her whims. A happy home for him would include her, and she knows this, and has tested him on it time and time again. When and if she can come to terms with her feelings about this, she is welcome anytime.

The word adult would indicate that she or another 20-year-old is old enough to work out her thoughts and feelings about it. Obviously it's too early for that with her at this point but it's something that she should be working towards if she is anywhere close to being an adult.

hopanka · June 2013

I'm sorry you feel defensive, but understand that while from point of view this a great thing that you are creating this new family and are happily awaiting a new baby, from her pointnof view it is not a happy situation. It is embarassing to explain to your friends...yeah, my old man went a little crazy, got himself a new woman and is making babies at his old age. When you are 20, a 50 year old dad is OLD and shouldn't be having babies. It is laughable and embarrassing to the 20 year old and their peers. It is also extremely disappointing that you have THAT dad. Sometimes you just wanna say...dad, I love you, even with your mistakes I want us to be like we used be, like I know you from the past growing up, so I want us to stay connected, but I don't want to be part of your new life. Please keep it separate, I am not looking to build relationships with your new family, the new child does not feel like a sibling to me, so lets figure out a way for you and I to stay connected without your new additions. I am going to respect that you made your decision to start a new family, I won't back mouth them, but I don't agree with it, so please do not force me to act like I care.

Hopeforthebest · June 2013

hopanka:
I'm sorry you feel defensive, but understand that while from point of view this a great thing that you are creating this new family and are happily awaiting a new baby, from her pointnof view it is not a happy situation. It is embarassing to explain to your friends...yeah, my old man went a little crazy, got himself a new woman and is making babies at his old age. When you are 20, a 50 year old dad is OLD and shouldn't be having babies. It is laughable and embarrassing to the 20 year old and their peers. It is also extremely disappointing that you have THAT dad. Sometimes you just wanna say...dad, I love you, even with your mistakes I want us to be like we used be, like I know you from the past growing up, so I want us to stay connected, but I don't want to be part of your new life. Please keep it separate, I am not looking to build relationships with your new family, the new child does not feel like a sibling to me, so lets figure out a way for you and I to stay connected without your new additions. I am going to respect that you made your decision to start a new family, I won't back mouth them, but I don't agree with it, so please do not force me to act like I care.

So what is the magic age dads should stop their lives and do what their original children ( didn't know what term to use) think and approve of?

Lavender P · June 2013

Hopeforthebest:
hopanka:
I'm sorry you feel defensive, but understand that while from point of view this a great thing that you are creating this new family and are happily awaiting a new baby, from her pointnof view it is not a happy situation. It is embarassing to explain to your friends...yeah, my old man went a little crazy, got himself a new woman and is making babies at his old age. When you are 20, a 50 year old dad is OLD and shouldn't be having babies. It is laughable and embarrassing to the 20 year old and their peers. It is also extremely disappointing that you have THAT dad. Sometimes you just wanna say...dad, I love you, even with your mistakes I want us to be like we used be, like I know you from the past growing up, so I want us to stay connected, but I don't want to be part of your new life. Please keep it separate, I am not looking to build relationships with your new family, the new child does not feel like a sibling to me, so lets figure out a way for you and I to stay connected without your new additions. I am going to respect that you made your decision to start a new family, I won't back mouth them, but I don't agree with it, so please do not force me to act like I care.
So what is the magic age dads should stop their lives and do what their original children ( didn't know what term to use) think and approve of?

Hopanka,, there are a ton of assumptions you are making here. If my SS was 20 years old, my DH would only be 38, which by most standards is a perfectly reasonable age to have children. We could have kids when SS is 20 without being old or creepy. I've known my SS since he was 4, but we waited to have kids until we were ready, not just so they would be close in age because other people might judge us. OP's SD has to deal with the fact that her dad is having a child, regardless of what she wants. She can decide to have nothing to do with him and his new life, but really that is just hurting herself. She sounds like an immature girl that needs therapy to understand that just because dad is having a new child doesn't mean he loves you less. My SS get this and he's 10.
I guess I must have missed the memo that said the first kid gets to dictate their parents' decisions relating to children just because they were first. I'm glad my parents didn't give my sister that power or she would've been an only child and we are an intact family.

fellesferie · June 2013

There's a lot of information to parse out, but I'm honestly not seeing anything that would lead a rational person to think your SD could not be in the same room with you and your baby.

You weren't 'the other woman.' Your marriage w/ YH did not come fast on the heels of his divorce from her mother. You aren't a 20-something-year-old midlife crisis. You have been married for awhile. It's not as though you did anything to her, kwim?

So your SD has feelings, and that this is hard for her. That's fine, and she's entitled to express those feelings. Hell, it's healthy for her to express those feelings. I can see being upset/freaked out/disappointed, but I think she's taking it too far.

Part of being an adult, and being treated like an adult, is learning to express those feelings in a mature way. She should be able to be in the same room with you on Christmas. And she should damn well be able to be polite and respectful while she's there. If she is welcome in your home (and it is 100% clear to her that she is), and she decides to miss out, that's on her.

YH is a nicer person than I am if he would fund her college expenses while she's not speaking to him.

Maybe DH and I are jerks, but there are strings attached to whatever money we decide to put into our kids' college educations.

hopanka · June 2013

Hope, you would have to ask the 20 year old, lol. I am just saying, from a young adult's point of view, 50 is old. It is what it is. Cheryl Sandberg said their her young colleagues come to show her their new ideas to see quote unquote how old people would react to a new online application. She is in her early forties, lol!

hopanka · June 2013

Lavender, the daughter can ask the dad to continue a relationship with one another WITHOUT the new family attached to it. From my own experience, this can work really well, if everyone is respectful. You can absolutely honor an adult child's relationship with their parent and keep it separate, if that is their wish. You mentioned Christmas. No reason why dad cannot meet up with his adult daughter for a Christmas dinner on his own at some point around the Holidays. The daughter may have no interest in hanging with the babies and his new wife around the Christmas tree. Maybe she just wants to go and meet up with for a nice dinner, exchange presents or go skiing for the weekend with him only and her other sister. I have done plenty of those with my dad and it was fun.

Lavender P · June 2013

hopanka:
Lavender, the daughter can ask the dad to continue a relationship with one another WITHOUT the new family attached to it. From my own experience, this can work really well, if everyone is respectful. You can absolutely honor an adult child's relationship with their parent and keep it separate, if that is their wish. You mentioned Christmas. No reason why dad cannot meet up with his adult daughter for a Christmas dinner on his own at some point around the Holidays. The daughter may have no interest in hanging with the babies and his new wife around the Christmas tree. Maybe she just wants to go and meet up with for a nice dinner, exchange presents or go skiing for the weekend with him only and her other sister. I have done plenty of those with my dad and it was fun.

She can ask for anything she wants but that doesn't mean she should get it. I'm glad that works out for your family, but I think the SD here is digging her heels in to punish her dad. The baby isnt even here yet and she is already making an issue out of it. It would be different if the baby was born and all the sudden dad just disappeared from her life. She is entitles to her feelings but she is being very immature. In all honesty, I don't have much sympathy for her. Her dad loves her, pays for school and treats her very well. She has a SM that wants her to be a part of their family. That is more than a lot of people have.

hopanka · June 2013

To her, his wife and child may not be considered family. Her father is. there is a difference. She does not have to have a relationship with them, and have to sacrifice a relationship with her dad. If he demanded it, as in he would tell her either its everybody or nobody, then that is not fair. That would be emotional blackmail. You cant require an adult to force a relationship with people that he or she does not want to be connected to. They should still be allowed to continue having a relationship with their own parent.

Hopeforthebest · June 2013

hopanka:
To her, his wife and child may not be considered family. Her father is. there is a difference. She does not have to have a relationship with them, and have to sacrifice a relationship with her dad. If he demanded it, as in he would tell her either its everybody or nobody, then that is not fair. That would be emotional blackmail. You cant require an adult to force a relationship with people that he or she does not want to be connected to. They should still be allowed to continue having a relationship with their own parent.

What if it is the other way around? If the parent didn't condone the child's boyfriend/spouse and wanted a separate child/parent relationship. Does that make anymore sense. Look I'm not saying it has to be Norman Rockwell. This particular adult child doesn't seem to even wanna try. Just to get the goods and have everything HER way.

hopanka · June 2013

Then it comes to the old fact: we love our children unconditionally (even with their annoying spouse/boyfriend...whatever), but our children love us and treat us with conditions. Why is it that way? As parents, we are older, wiser and more mature than our children are (even the young adult children). You can't possibly demand the same sort of maturity from a 20-year old college girl, as you would expect from her 40 or 50-something father.

Now, like I said, you can request that she is respectful. But, you do not draw a line in the sand and demand that she has any kind of a relationship with your new family/babies..etc.

If it happens, it will happen organically, but it cannot be forced or demanded at the expense of a relationship with her dad.

Lavender P · June 2013

Hopeforthebest:
hopanka:
To her, his wife and child may not be considered family. Her father is. there is a difference. She does not have to have a relationship with them, and have to sacrifice a relationship with her dad. If he demanded it, as in he would tell her either its everybody or nobody, then that is not fair. That would be emotional blackmail. You cant require an adult to force a relationship with people that he or she does not want to be connected to. They should still be allowed to continue having a relationship with their own parent.
What if it is the other way around? If the parent didn't condone the child's boyfriend/spouse and wanted a separate child/parent relationship. Does that make anymore sense. Look I'm not saying it has to be Norman Rockwell. This particular adult child doesn't seem to even wanna try. Just to get the goods and have everything HER way.

By what is described above, the SD is emotionally blackmailing her dad. She is basically saying to him that if he wants a relationship with her, it has to be on her terms or else. Just because she is technically the child, even though she is an adult, doesn't mean she gets to force his hand either. It isn't right either way. All i'm saying is that she is entitled to her feelings but I think it is wrong she told her dad the only way she can will have a relationship with him is separate from his family.

Ginlyn0 · June 2013

Don't dismiss the SD's feelings as that of a spoiled brat. If she feels that way than that is her perogative.

I have a relationship with my oldest sister outside of the rest of the family. She cut off my father at 21 which made the rest of the family side with him. While I don't agree with her reasoning, this was her choice which she has stood by.

I see her separately, she doesn't come to anything my family will be at. We celebrate things in our own way separately.

Some of my family (my mother & other sister, in particular her SM & stepsister) seems to act upset that I do that. Oh, well....I'm not going to pick someone in my family over someone else. So I divide my time between my families no different than I do between my bio family and ILs.

I sometimes complain about both my sister and my father because I feel stuck in the middle but I would rather be stuck in the middle than not see either of them at all.

My point is that she has laid out the cards, if her father chooses not to be sucky, he will still see her outside of seeing SM & baby. She can choose not to see them if she wants.

irishgirl0525 · June 2013

Lavender P:
hopanka:
Lavender, the daughter can ask the dad to continue a relationship with one another WITHOUT the new family attached to it. From my own experience, this can work really well, if everyone is respectful. You can absolutely honor an adult child's relationship with their parent and keep it separate, if that is their wish. You mentioned Christmas. No reason why dad cannot meet up with his adult daughter for a Christmas dinner on his own at some point around the Holidays. The daughter may have no interest in hanging with the babies and his new wife around the Christmas tree. Maybe she just wants to go and meet up with for a nice dinner, exchange presents or go skiing for the weekend with him only and her other sister. I have done plenty of those with my dad and it was fun.
She can ask for anything she wants but that doesn't mean she should get it. I'm glad that works out for your family, but I think the SD here is digging her heels in to punish her dad. The baby isnt even here yet and she is already making an issue out of it. It would be different if the baby was born and all the sudden dad just disappeared from her life. She is entitles to her feelings but she is being very immature. In all honesty, I don't have much sympathy for her. Her dad loves her, pays for school and treats her very well. She has a SM that wants her to be a part of their family. That is more than a lot of people have.

Thank you again for all of the input and support, sorry to sound like a broken record saying thank you again.

As some background on the relationship between SD and me, it has not been perfect, but it has not always been contentious. When DH and I were getting married, I know she had the normal feelings that a kid would have seeing a parent get remarried, but she also wanted him to be happy. She even said to us separately that she was glad that he found someone he was so happy with him, she knew it was not a good situation with her mother, and after all that her mother put him through, she was glad that he was with me and he deserved it. This was at 16. She also knew that at some point we wanted to have children, and at the time was excited about it. Yes, this was 4 years ago and things change. Unfortunately it took us 3 years to successfully conceive. I'm sorry she changed her mind in that time period. That is too damn bad. She doesn't get to call the shots. She probably would have done the same thing had we conceived 3 years ago, I don't know, it's a lot of drama with her no matter what is going on. If she isn't getting enough attention one way, something happens to put the focus on her. This is another way of her doing that.

That said, I have always wanted to have a good relationship with her, and worked very hard towards that through a lot of turmoil with her when she lived with us and after she moved out. In the end, and long before today, she kicked dirt in my face. I have a lot feelings about that, but I am a rational adult and I know she was a teenager with emotional issues at the time, so I moved past it the best that I can and go to therapy to work a lot of this out.

She is always welcome to come over, and comes for holidays, and if she hasn't it is because she has canceled at the last minute, while her dad has been waiting for her at the train station, and her grandfather was at our house for the sole purpose of seeing his granddaughters at Christmas.

For future family gatherings, she doesn't have to be there if she doesn't want to, no one is going to force her, that would be worse. I would rather her not be there and come around when she is ready. There will always be a place for her at the table. But trying to dictate how it will be for holidays going forward and that DH should split his time on Christmas, etc? I don't see it happening.

She is not planning to see him on Father's Day, and her sister is graduating from HS later this month and we are going to their favorite restaurant afterwards with his DHs family (about 8 of us). She won't be there, her choice. She can go to dinner with us afterwards which I'm sure her sister would like, or she can got to lunch with her the next day or do something else, hopefully they will spend some time celebrating. It's sad and it's unfortunate, and hopefully it will change some day. Right now this is where she is. I have been dreading June because I knew there would be events she would bow out of.

Hopanka, I don't know what your situation was, but it isn't mine, so stop making all of these assumptions. And I didn't join this family last week, and I wasn't the other woman, and I didn't steal her father from her. He is also not the first 48 year old man to have a child with a second family, and there are younger children that understand that better than she does. (as PP pointed out). She at some point she did consider me family. I'm sorry she doesn't now, but that is really for her to work out. Her father is not forcing her to have a relationship with anyone, and he is NOT emotionally blackmailing her, that is her area of expertise.

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