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TJ1979 · May 2013

First off, hi! How is M doing? Is he over his HFM?

Secondly, can I ask you some sleep training questions?

Did you night time sleep train and nap time sleep train at the same time?

Does M get up at night to eat at all? The pedi told us yesterday that E doesn't need to eat overnight she is just trained to do so. But I know a lot of ladies on the BF board say their LOs actually need to eat.

MH brought up overnight waking to the pedi yesterday and he had a lot of advice that I wasn't sure if I agreed with. But last night went really well, so now I'm confused. Just looking for some of your experience bc I have always appreciated your advice.

Thanks for any advice or experience you can share.

pb_bride · May 2013

TJ, thanks for asking after M. Yes, he's over the hand-foot-mouth, but then he caught a cold from DH (just runny nose; didn't bother him), and then I caught that cold from M.

anyway, to answer your questions, I did sleep training first. The very first day I did both and I quickly realized I could not stand listening to him cry all day long and all night long! So I dropped the nap training and only did sleep training. After a week I started nap training w/1 nap a day. That was all the crying I could handle! Having said that, I think M was on the young side of training, so he probably cried more/longer than if I had waited until he was older. I know there are other Bumpies on the 6-9m who had success doing both at the same time.

When we started sleep training, M was waking up 2x/night to eat, sometimes 1x. (never more than 2x). After a week or 2, he kind of weaned himself down to 1 wake-up per night.

The problem w/the 1 wake up was that some nights he would wake up at 11pm, some nights it was 2am, other nights it was 4am. There was no rhyme or reason.

On nights he woke at 11pm, I knew he couldn't be hungry so we just let him CIO. After he went back to sleep, he'd sleep until 6-7am. So we know he can go all night (12hrs) without a feed.

On nights he woke at 4am, I would nurse him. BUT, after nursing, instead of putting himself back to sleep, he was actually wide awake and wanted to play. We let him talk/babble in the crib and it would go on for an hour before he fell back to sleep. As a result of the prolonged waking, he wasn't getting enough sleep at night. (neither was I, cuz soon after M fell asleep, it was time for H to get up for work).

Because of the 2 issues above, I decided to wean M's MOTN feed when he was 5 months. That's the age Ferber believes it's fine to stop MOTN feeds, as long as the baby is full-term and healthy. It took < a week before M started STTN.

I highly recommend reading Ferber's book "Solve your child's sleep problems," even if you don't want to use his method. It's a very well-written book and it explains A LOT about infants'/childrens' sleep behavior and the science behind it. It has an entire chapter dedicated to MOTN weaning. [I got mine out of the library and kept it for like 2 months. I just re-checked it out from the library again... it's a great book for reference IMHO.]

Finally, about babies waking up hungry MOTN... According to Ferber, yes, babies DO wake up hungry MOTN, but that's because they have been trained to feel hungry at (x) am when they've always been given a bottle or nursed. The goal of Ferber is to move the hungry time at (x) am to 6am or 7am so the infant can have uninterrupted night time sleep.

Sorry this is so long, but HTH!

TJ1979 · May 2013

Thank you so much for your thorough response. I'm glad M is better, but sorry you have a cold now. We all 3 have runny noses here so I sympathize. Of course I think it bothers me more than E. Nothing slows that kid down.

We let her do a bit of crying last night with MH checking on her every 10 minutes, but after the first check that seemed to make it worse. And she only ended up crying for about 20 minutes. She slept till 2, cried for 5 minutes, MH checked on her, she cried for another 5, then slept till 7:30. I feel like it was pretty successful, 11 hours with only 1 wake up. I was really worried about her nap, but I laid her down and she was out in under 5 minutes and slept for 2 hours.

I know this is just our first day and we may have some bad nights ahead, but I feel like she is ready for it now. I know she wasn't before but I think she is now.

Thanks for your advice. I'll check out the book. I wish I could get MH to read it. He definitely won't but I guess if I do and he doesn't that makes me the one with the information therefore the one who calls the shots! Thanks again.

pb_bride · May 2013

Hi TJ, it does sound like E is ready for it, and hopefully it won't be much more crying from now on! Two more thoughts:

1) it's crucial that you and YH agree on this - not just CIO, but how long before each check, and who's the one going in to do the soothing. Each night when DH & I went to bed, we agreed upon it before we went to sleep, that way, there is no confusion or argument MOTN. M was actually the same way as E - he cried louder/more when DH went in to soothe him.

2) I was told by friends that any illness or developmental milestone may/will cause a setback. M definitely woke up multiple times last week when he was sick. We were afraid we would had to re-train him, but luckily once he got better, he STTN again.

In retrospect, I will admit that we did sleep training when M was a bit too young, but you probably recall how desperate I was then and that I just couldn't keep up with it.

GL!

P.S. Our second night was WAY, way worse than 1st night... to the extent that I almost wanted to give up. We didn't, and third night went better.

TJ1979 · May 2013

You're welcome to butt in mg! I really didn't want to CIO either. But MH isn't good at getting up to help at night. It's my fault really. The monitor doesn't wake him up and I feel guilty waking him if I'm already awake. And since I was ending up nursing anyhow I just didn't bother. But I'm just too exhausted lately. And while things could definitely be worse, I'd like to have something more reliable going on.
I'm nursing her right now so night 2 will begin soon. Both of her naps went excellent today so I had high hopes. But now I'm a little worried. Wish us luck and thank you both for your advice!

TJ1979 · May 2013

Okay, another question if you're still following this thread. I ordered the book, but was curious in the mean time.
What about getting up in the morning? If they cry in the morning and you go get them up, doesn't that confuse them that sometimes you get them up and sometimes you don't?

pb_bride · May 2013

TJ1979:
Okay, another question if you're still following this thread. I ordered the book, but was curious in the mean time. What about getting up in the morning? If they cry in the morning and you go get them up, doesn't that confuse them that sometimes you get them up and sometimes you don't?

Hi TJ, when you say getting up in the morning, do you mean getting her up for the day? That shouldn't confuse her as long as you open up the curtains and do whatever you usually do in the morning (I assume, nursing), and not putting her back in the crib to go back to sleep.

TJ1979 · May 2013

Yes, I did mean getting up for the day. Thanks!

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