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Working Moms
itsmevkb
member
So, where do you draw the line at supporting your children?
itsmevkb
member
in Working Moms
I'm endlessly amazed at how much the women I work with do for their grown, adult children. I know that some parents feel it's their resposiblity to pay for college either in full or at least help as much as feasible, and to help them out when they can, but where do you draw the line? Would you:
1. pay their phone bills until they have careers themselves?
2. pay their rent?
3. continue to carry them on your health insurance even if they are working and could get it through their own employer?
4. pay for them to go on a spring break vacation with their friends?
5. and in non-financial terms, when they return from college would you do their laundry?
6. would you take the bus to work so they could use your car and not have to take the bus themselves to wherever they need to be?
7. would you continue to make their dental, hair and medical appointments?
8. would you not retire in order to pay for your kid to go to graduate school and then, still not retire once they graduate because they want to take a year off to "have fun" before they get a job?????
When I suggest that I would not be doing things like this for my kids once they are adults what I always get in response is "just wait." But, really? I don't plan on doing my kids' laundry when they are 12, much less when they are 22!
Kelly, Mom to Christopher Shannon 9.27.06, Catherine Quinn 2.24.09, Trey Barton lost on 12.28.09, Therese Barton lost on 6.10.10, Joseph Sullivan 7.23.11, and our latest, Victoria Maren 11.15.12
Secondary infertility success with IVF, then two losses, one at 14 weeks and one at 10 weeks, then success with IUI and then just pure, crazy luck. Expecting our fifth in May as the result of a FET.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: So, where do you draw the line at supporting your children?
Before answering these questions, I just have to say that to me--paying for college is almost a different question. Because my parents (a SAHM and a middle class corporate manager) fully paid for my education, I want to try my best to pay it forward to my children. After all, I feel that their generosity is what enabled me to be able to not have loans, save a down payment, buy a house at 24, and build equity and savings earlier, and also to have a degree that got me into a great career where I am now in a good financial position. They also trusted that I would try my best and not waste their money. That being said, I'm going to try hard to steer my kids into degrees that I believe will translate into a good paying job--Accounting, Engineering--or, into a trade if they feel that is their calling. However, at the end of the day, I don't know that I would say no to paying their tuition if they chose a different path. Also, DH and I agree that we would pay for a bachelors degree--if my kids choose to go beyond that, it is on their dime (or loan).
1. pay their phone bills until they have careers themselves? Maybe--during school maybe, but definitely not after they graduate & have a job.
2. pay their rent? Again, maybe during school, but if they have a job and can find a cheap apartment with a roommate--great. I might give them a "loan"--I don't know.
3. continue to carry them on your health insurance even if they are working and could get it through their own employer? No.
4. pay for them to go on a spring break vacation with their friends? No.
5. and in non-financial terms, when they return from college would you do their laundry? No.
6. would you take the bus to work so they could use your car and not have to take the bus themselves to wherever they need to be? No.
7. would you continue to make their dental, hair and medical appointments? No.
8. would you not retire in order to pay for your kid to go to graduate school and then, still not retire once they graduate because they want to take a year off to "have fun" before they get a job????? Hell no. But this is much of why my DH started saving for retirement aggressively and early.
Will baby #3 be another girl?
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DH and I want to pay for DSs college. Past that - I'm going to strive hard to make DS an independant adult. I will say, though, that my parents helped me w/ my car/ car insurance for the first year after college. So I'm not going to out and out say "I'd never do anything on that list".
But - anything I do, it would be just to help him get on him feet, and it would be for a specific period of time. I wouldn't be covering ALL his bills. I would NOT be making his appts. WTF? I wouldn't delay retirement to pay for grad school or for him to have a year to "have fun".
You have to find that line- what's really helping them and what's enabling them. I want to do everything in my power to avoid enabling!!
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Would you:
1. pay their phone bills until they have careers themselves? No, no job no phone even teens.
2. pay their rent? in emergencies yes, but not regularly and even that would end very early into adulthood.
3. continue to carry them on your health insurance even if they are working and could get it through their own employer? No
4. pay for them to go on a spring break vacation with their friends? Yes, if they were making good grades and behaving respectable
5. and in non-financial terms, when they return from college would you do their laundry? No, I think laundry should start even before they leave for college, they should start in middle school
6. would you take the bus to work so they could use your car and not have to take the bus themselves to wherever they need to be? No, I would let them borrow the car as needed but would insist they get dropped off, etc. They should not have more freedom than I do if they cannot afford it.
7. would you continue to make their dental, hair and medical appointments? No, they can start doing this once in high school, as long as they coordinate with DH or I to take them.
8. would you not retire in order to pay for your kid to go to graduate school and then, still not retire once they graduate because they want to take a year off to "have fun" before they get a job????? No, my retirement would not suffer for them to go to grad school. Under grad is different in my eyes, you are still young and I would be glad to support that as long as grades remain good. Graduate school is something you do as an independent adult on your own.
I feel like my kids are so young that saying anything here is an invitation to karma to bite me later...but DH and I have discussed this and our general rule is that after high school their options are college or a job. If they choose college we will help support them through undergrad to the extent we can. Beyond that, they need to be prepared to be on their own.
That said, I am sure there are a million possible scenarios that could occur for either of them that could change that plan.
In all honesty, I can see myself doing many of these things under certain circumstances, which would include if my child was attempting to get himself established. I would not do them permanently, nor would I feel like it's my responsibility to these things but, yeah, I can see myself helping my child temporarily with a lot of these things.
I think my mindset on this comes from the fact that you could probably put my parents in the category of the parents you're describing - maybe not to the same degree, but they did help my brother and I out in different ways right after college when we were getting started in life. We became responsible, contributing members of society and we never felt like our parents owed us the help they gave. And, now we try to give back to them in as many ways as we can.
I do see you point, though, that if you have kids who are lazy and unmotivated to get jobs or take responsibility for their own lives, this kind of thing could backfire on parents.
This
There's a difference between being an enabler and wanting your kid to have the advantages you have. I got into an Ivy League college on my own merits but if I can help my DD with a well timed donation, why wouldn't I want to boost her chances?
It's the way the world works. Similarly, I'm not going to pay the rent on an apartment in Manhattan so she can bum around. But if a few hundred dollars a month is the difference between letting her work her way up the corporate ladder in the big city vs having her move to a LCOL city for a lesser job, then I'd be willing to consider helping her make ends meet.
It may not be "fair" but it doesn't make any sense to pretend like family support has no bearing on future success.
1. pay their phone bills until they have careers themselves?
NO. I think they should contribute to their phone bills in highschool as well, this is a luxury and will not just be handed to them.
2. pay their rent?
NO. If they fell on hard times- laid off from their job, medical problem, etc. then I would help them out. Also they would be welcome to move back home.
3. continue to carry them on your health insurance even if they are working and could get it through their own employer?
This depends. Since they are eligible to stay on their parents plan longer, it may make better sense financially to do this. Most family plans have the same cost regardless of number of children. So assuming other kids are still on the family plan its essentially zero cost to keep them on it. They would have to pay their own copays/ deductibles though.
4. pay for them to go on a spring break vacation with their friends?
He11 to the NO. I had an internship in college and paid for my own post-graduation trip.
5. and in non-financial terms, when they return from college would you do their laundry?
Maybe. I moved back home after college and my SAHM still did my laundry b/c she said it just made sense to throw it in with everyone elses. They would however be expected to help around the house.
6. would you take the bus to work so they could use your car and not have to take the bus themselves to wherever they need to be?
NO. However I think that when they start driving we may need to get a 3rd family car. We live in the suburbs, there just is no public transit here, you can't go anywhere without a car. We will figure out what we can manage when the time comes. I don't believe teenagers should just be given free reign over their own car. This is a big responsibility and needs to be treated as such.
7. would you continue to make their dental, hair and medical appointments?
This is not a big deal to me. My mom did this for me sometimes, but I don't think it matters either way.
8. would you not retire in order to pay for your kid to go to graduate school and then, still not retire once they graduate because they want to take a year off to "have fun" before they get a job?????
I would not pay for any graduate education period. I will do my best to assist with undergrad.
Overall, I think this is crazy and a great way to create the generation of entitled, non-self-sufficient young people we have.
I believe you need to learn through your experiences, some of which will be successes but many of which will be failures. You come out better for what you learn through challenges.
So, here is my list:
1. Phone Bills--Not a chance.
2. Rent--During school only.
3. Insurance--Maybe. My family plan costs almost nothing more to have a child added on, and my insurance is good. Medical debt is not cool.
4. Vacation -- Not a chance. Get a job. Learn to save.
5. Laundry -- I can't formulate a good answer that doesn't have multiple swear words in it, so I'll go with "no".
6. Bus v. Car -- HAHAHAHA...no.
7. Appointments for them -- No. And I feel bad for all the future co-workers of children whose parents do this for them. You need these skills for most jobs.
8. Delay retirement for a year off -- That is hilarious (only if you made that one up). No.
I am, however, 100% happy to and feel obligated to pay for college and maybe even grad school and the expenses that arise during that time (rent, books, etc).
1) If they were just one additional line on a family plan, that's like $10/month? Sure
2) Once they have their college degree, no. If they need to live at home with us while they look for a job, fine, but they should sign up with temp agencies if it takes more than the summer after graduation.
3) Would depend. My current job offers me "self" or "family" and after you select "family" there's no additional cost no matter how many dependents you add, so yes, I'd definitely keep them on as long as possible.
4) No.
5) No
6) Not regularly, but occasionally when they visit? Sure, I do that for other guests as well.
7) If they were visiting from out of town and wanted that done here, maybe. Haven't thought about that before.
8) No.
This is of course if we have the funds, anything can happen. DH or myself could both lose our jobs but if things continue to go as they are and hopefully get better over time this would be how I see things
1. pay their phone bills until they have careers themselves? Yes I'd pay until they finished school
2. pay their rent? If they are going to school full time, yes
3. continue to carry them on your health insurance even if they are working and could get it through their own employer? No, if they have an actual full time job with insurance they can be on their own plan.
4. pay for them to go on a spring break vacation with their friends?I would most likely offer to pay half, and in the end give extra spending money before they leave.
5. and in non-financial terms, when they return from college would you do their laundry? absolutely not. I don't plan on doing their laundry even as teenagers
6. would you take the bus to work so they could use your car and not have to take the bus themselves to wherever they need to be? absolutely not.
7. would you continue to make their dental, hair and medical appointments? no
8. would you not retire in order to pay for your kid to go to graduate school and then, still not retire once they graduate because they want to take a year off to "have fun" before they get a job????? No, DH and I decided one wedding, one degree per child...graduate school they are on their own.
DD 12.2010
1. pay their phone bills until they have careers themselves? Hmm maybe thru college.
2. pay their rent? No
3. continue to carry them on your health insurance even if they are working and could get it through their own employer? No
4. pay for them to go on a spring break vacation with their friends? Hell no, family vacation sure.
5. and in non-financial terms, when they return from college would you do their laundry? Probably
6. would you take the bus to work so they could use your car and not have to take the bus themselves to wherever they need to be? Uh... no
7. would you continue to make their dental, hair and medical appointments? While on my insurance, yes
8. would you not retire in order to pay for your kid to go to graduate school and then, still not retire once they graduate because they want to take a year off to "have fun" before they get a job????? HAHAHA thats funny... no.
When I suggest that I would not be doing things like this for my kids once they are adults what I always get in response is "just wait." But, really? I don't plan on doing my kids' laundry when they are 12, much less when they are 22 <---- I'm a "never say never" gal, but I am going to teach DS to be independent. That doesn't mean I won't help him out, but honestly there are too many spoiled brats with no clue how to live in the real world out there, I don't plan on creating another one. My spouse is a sucker so we'll see how it really pans out.
These are all real examples of things my co-workers have done for their children or are continuing to do.
Kelly, Mom to Christopher Shannon 9.27.06, Catherine Quinn 2.24.09, Trey Barton lost on 12.28.09, Therese Barton lost on 6.10.10, Joseph Sullivan 7.23.11, and our latest, Victoria Maren 11.15.12
Secondary infertility success with IVF, then two losses, one at 14 weeks and one at 10 weeks, then success with IUI and then just pure, crazy luck. Expecting our fifth in May as the result of a FET.
This Cluttered Life
Ditto.
Same here. I think you can actually harm your kids be "helping" them too much.
1. No
2. No. They are welcome to live at home for as long as they want and I would not charge them rent. If they want a place of their own, then they would have to pay their own rent.
3. yes
4. no. I will definitely not pay for their trip. I may give them some spending money.
5. It depends. If I'm already doing my own laundry I may just do theirs too. I do DH's laundry sometimes and he does mine. I don't see this as a big deal. My parents would do this for me just to be nice and I always appreciated it.
6. no
7. no
8. no
My parents did not do any of these things for me, but have done nearly all of them for my younger brother. I lived at home for about five years after college, but I was working, going to grad school, and trying to establish my career (and as soon as I could afford it, I moved out). My brother dropped out with one semester to go and has lived at home for the past seven years. My parents haven't pushed him to leave, even though my mom complains to me all the time about how much she can't stand having him home.
DH and I have vowed to raise our children to be independent and self-sufficient - I don't want to be in my parents situation when I'm their age.
1. pay their phone bills until they have careers themselves? no, they will have some sort of job starting in high school so they can pay for their own cell phone bill in college and beyond
2. pay their rent? no- they will be allowed to move back home right after college if they have not found something, but even that has a limit on how long they will be able to stay (obviously I can't predict the job market 15+ years down the line)
3. continue to carry them on your health insurance even if they are working and could get it through their own employer?- this might depend on their employer and how much it will cost them. I work for a small company and crappy insurance is an arm and a leg (around $400 a month for a single person). DH works for a hospital and carries our insurance (very cheap for a family plan). If my child wants to work for a small company I don't want the cost of insurance to deter them from taking a job offer.
4. pay for them to go on a spring break vacation with their friends? no
5. and in non-financial terms, when they return from college would you do their laundry? no
6. would you take the bus to work so they could use your car and not have to take the bus themselves to wherever they need to be? no
7. would you continue to make their dental, hair and medical appointments? no
8. would you not retire in order to pay for your kid to go to graduate school and then, still not retire once they graduate because they want to take a year off to "have fun" before they get a job????? HELL NO
I can't believe people actually do these things... you can't be serious
I will help them when I can, but I thought the way my parents raised my sister and I was fair yet generous. We did not have cell phones until we were well into college and could afford them ourselves. We also paid for our own first cars, but my parents paid for my insurance until I graduated college. We both had part time jobs in high school, but also played sports and had extracurricular activities. So my parents paid for all sports equipment, clothing, etc. so that we could put our money toward safe and dependable cars and college savings. We did all the chores around the house with the exception of yard work which my parents did. They also helped us with half of our college and then paid room and board for us. We had loans for the the other half of the tuition and had to pay them back if we received poor grades in any classes that they paid for. I had two jobs in college to help with paying the loans. As soon as I graduated, I was offered a job full time and immediately stopped taking money from them. My sister went on to grad school so was helped a bit longer, but when she got a great job she also took on all her own payments and was immediately independent. Neither of us ever had credit cards until adulthood so my parents never paid those types of bills.
The differences I plan to make with my children are allowing simple cell phones at an earlier age in case of emergencies (no texting or pictures available). And we will be paying for our children's college tuition in full. They will have jobs and chores, but also have a great childhood filled with family fun and extracurricular activities of their choosing. We worked hard to become debt free, invest wisely, and also have various savings plans and two types of retirement accounts each, We do our research and do not live outside our means; therefore, we are in a position to help our children and retire ourselves. I will never draw the line at helping my children whenever I can because I think supporting family is important. I will also help my grandchildren when the time comes as well.
Yup. In general, the picture you painted with all those questions gives me the creepies. But take any one individually and put a different spin on it and maybe it's not so crazy.
My MIL usually throws in a load of laundry when she's at our house. We say thank you. Does that make us perpetual adolescents?
It took my brother years to get off my parents' cell phone plan -- he wanted to keep his number, it was a $9.99 adder to a family plan, and it just wasn't a big priority for him and my dad to schedule a time to go into the store together to assign the number to a new account or whatever it was they had to do. Not so strange, right?
Pretty much no to all of these. I didn't have my undergrad, grad school or law school paid for by my parents. DH had a full-ride for undergrad, but his parents did not pay for his med school. His mother did, IMO, baby him a lot in other ways, though.
2011: FSH 13.3 & E 99; AMH 0.54 2nd FSH 6.2 E 40's AFC: 8
BFP from Clomid/IUI ~ Pre-e and IUGR during pregnancy ~ DS born 9/4/12
Feb./March 2013: AMH less than 0.16 (undectable) and AFC = 4;
BFP from supps ~ DS#2 due May 2014
May 2014 January Siggy Challenge:
1. pay their phone bills until they have careers themselves? I might,subsidize through college, but not for an expensive data plan.
2. pay their rent? Again, I would help through college, but I would probably be more willing to let them move into my home forva while to get on their feet. But it really depends in the circumstances. If they hit some rough times - lost a job or a spouse or something - and needed some temporary help, I'd do what I could. If they just didn't feel like working, they're on their own.
3. continue to carry them on your health insurance even if they are working and could get it through their own employer? Probably not. If my insurance was much better and there was a health issue, maybe?
4. pay for them to go on a spring break vacation with their friends? No way
5. and in non-financial terms, when they return from college would you do their laundry? Maybe once or twice as a "welcome home" gift.
6. would you take the bus to work so they could use your car and not have to take the bus themselves to wherever they need to be? Depends on the circumstances. Not on a regular basis, but if they had a job interview someplace that was not easily accessible by public transportation, I would.
7. would you continue to make their dental, hair and medical appointments? Absolutely not
8. would you not retire in order to pay for your kid to go to graduate school and then, still not retire once they graduate because they want to take a year off to "have fun" before they get a job????? No way. We are saving a set amount of money for education. We may try to pay for private high school if we can, and then they can do what they want with the educational money from there. Meaning - if they apply for and get grants and scholarships, they can apply any leftover college money to grad school.
The most important thing across all of these is that DH and I treat our kids equally. My parents have helped my sisters out way more than me, financially and otherwise. I remember having a job interview in college, and I asked my mom to borrow her car one day. There was no public transport available to me. My mom would have spent $15 on a cab to get to and from work. She said no. 2 years later, she gave my sister the car free and clear. A few years after that, when tha car died, she gave her another. The favoritism is glaring, and I will work hard to ensure that doesn't happen with our kids.
Married DH 7/30/11
CSC arrived 5/7/12
CHC arrived 6/2/14
My eyes bugged out of my head reading this list.
1. pay their phone bills until they have careers themselves? No.
2. pay their rent? No.
3. continue to carry them on your health insurance even if they are working and could get it through their own employer? No.
4. pay for them to go on a spring break vacation with their friends? Oh hell no.
5. and in non-financial terms, when they return from college would you do their laundry? Eh..."hey, I'm doing a load of laundry do you need anything washed?" Yes. Anything else...no.
6. would you take the bus to work so they could use your car and not have to take the bus themselves to wherever they need to be? Oh hell no.
7. would you continue to make their dental, hair and medical appointments? No.
8. would you not retire in order to pay for your kid to go to graduate school and then, still not retire once they graduate because they want to take a year off to "have fun" before they get a job????? F*** no.
My stepson will be 14 this year so we're already in prepare to launch mode and I think these co-workers of yours are nuts.
Married Bio * BFP Charts
Do we secretly have the same parents? Right after college my older sis got into a ton of credit card debt and my dad paid it all off for her. He also bought her a car. My younger sister has always been a bit of a mess so my parents have given her tens of thousands of dollars over the years, cars and babysat for free a ton when her kids were younger. In contrast, they have never given me money much less a car. Two years ago I asked my dad if he could pick our son up from school one day a week for one semester and although he agreed, my mother later called me to complain that we hadn't offered to pay for his gas!
Kelly, Mom to Christopher Shannon 9.27.06, Catherine Quinn 2.24.09, Trey Barton lost on 12.28.09, Therese Barton lost on 6.10.10, Joseph Sullivan 7.23.11, and our latest, Victoria Maren 11.15.12
Secondary infertility success with IVF, then two losses, one at 14 weeks and one at 10 weeks, then success with IUI and then just pure, crazy luck. Expecting our fifth in May as the result of a FET.
This Cluttered Life