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Working Moms
financialdiva
member
Can someone explain Charter schools to me?
financialdiva
member
in Working Moms
Mobile- Can someone explain Charter schools to me?
Up until recently, I had no idea I was supposed to look at other school options for my kids. I thought my choices were either public school or Catholic/parochial school. Since the public school we are zoned for a excellent, I thought we would start there. DS1 still has 1.5 years until kinder, but a lot of my friends kids are a year older and they are already looking into schools their LO's will attend, including Charter schools.
What the heck is a charter school? They seem to be popping up all around here! It seems like a privately backed school, but has no tuition cost to the parent? Do the states even regulate the cirriculum? Seems like there could be some issues if the teachers have no accountability, right?
Can somebody please 'school me' in Charter schools please?
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Re: Can someone explain Charter schools to me?
We have a lot of charter schools here in Milwaukee as well. If we choose to send our kids to one a portion of the tax money that would have gone to the traditional public school would go to the charter school instead. There are regulations for those schools or they will lose their charter, but I don't believe they have to follow all the same rules as the public schools with regards to things like expulsions or special needs education. We have some good charter schools here and some not so good ones, just like the public schools.
Does Florida have school choice? In the city of Milwaukee if you make under a certain income you can send your children to private and even religious schools and the tuition is paid for out of the public school funds.
Kelly, Mom to Christopher Shannon 9.27.06, Catherine Quinn 2.24.09, Trey Barton lost on 12.28.09, Therese Barton lost on 6.10.10, Joseph Sullivan 7.23.11, and our latest, Victoria Maren 11.15.12
Secondary infertility success with IVF, then two losses, one at 14 weeks and one at 10 weeks, then success with IUI and then just pure, crazy luck. Expecting our fifth in May as the result of a FET.
This Cluttered Life
Yes, I am in FL. The thing that has me concerned is your last sentence quality varies greatly. Of course, the same can be said about all schools, but if you are in a good school district, wouldn't you just put your child in public school? And further more, if they get to pick and choose the students that go there, what happens to the under performing students? And heck, if I was a teacher, what's the incentive to stick around a public school??
Couldn't this create a problem with our public schools?
The quality can vary b/c students can be kicked out of public schools and their alternative is charter schools. In turn the charter school wants to keep those kids becuase they equal funding. Charter schools can also be elite and have students kicked out of there quickly because they have a line of kids waiting to come in.
Charter school teachers are paid less than public school teachers and generally different criteria for raises or no raises at all.
'I loved you for a thousand years and I will love you for a thousand more'
I just worry that these charter schools would recruit all the good teachers out of public schools since they could potentially give the teachers items that public schools could not, ie larger raises and more flexibility when it comes to the curriculum. But it sounds like maybe that is not the case?
And I also wonder that since most likely the good charter schools have wait lists, that like PP said, the lower performing students could be kicked out and they would become more elite. With time, the better students would flock to charter schools and the public schools could be left with the underperforming students??
Does anyone else see the issue with this???? This isn't the case now, but could this be an issue with time????
charter schools also don't have to abide by union rules for teachers.
Charter schools take money out of the public school system - this is good for parents/families who want to have their kids in a more religious school setting and also good for parents who are stuck in a shitty school district. In some ways its great b/c they don't have to go through all the BS administrative crap that public school teachers.
You've got basically the right idea. There are good ones and there are poor ones, like any school district.If you're in a good school district, unless your child is troubled or has a really specific passion where there's a charter dedicated to that focus (music, engineering), there's no real reason to leave the public school district.
Charter schools are tougher on teachers. Yes, they attract some teachers looking to get out of struggling public school districts, but here in Ohio, the model lends itself to teacher burnout (here's more work and no raise) and so there might be higher turnover, which in market terms, helps keep costs down. Teachers who work in good public schools generally won't be attracted to a charter job.
If you were going to consider one, make sure to know who is sponsoring the charter. There are many instances where a university (especially a university who specializes in education) is the sponsor. But there are also many instances of private, for profit companies/individuals who do this.I'm a public school teacher and have been teaching for 9 years. I will NEVER work in a charter school unless that was the only option left in my city. Charters don't have unions so teachers are worked to the bone for little pay. In my area charter school teachers are typically newbies with bright eyes and the dream of changing the world. Teacher turnover rate at charter schools here are on average 5 years. Teachers are expected to work longer hours and be at the mercy of admin and parents. If a parent wanted to call me at 8 p.m. to ask a question I'm suppose to accommodate them.
Charter schools have been popping up around my district in the past 10 years and as a result they're taking a lot of our higher performing students and leaving the under performing and behavioral problems for the public schools. As a result test scores start to dip in public schools and all of a sudden parents are thinking our schools are crap and think charter schools are the shiznit. What's ironic is that things that charter schools require of parents through their contracts(i.e. parent participation) are things us public school teachers would love to require of parents because it does make a huge difference in a child's performance. But unfortunately as a public school, parents seem to not take required participation very well but the moment it's required by charter they jump at the chance.
I live in a crappy district. We have tons of charters and many of them suck. However, my catchment has a phenomenal charter that I would love my kids to attend. Unfortunately it is a lottery based system with about 40 spots this year. 1000 kids applied. I think DS was 387.
I used to be in the boat of "the charters are going to take away from public." However stats in our area suggest that sending a kid to a charter costs the city less than traditional public. And the Philly system is so corrupt. Me choosing a public school for my kids to "support" the public system isn't going to do anything but give my kids a mediocre education.
Bottom line, if you have good publics, use them. If not, shop around. Some charters are pretty great.
Others have had great comments. Where I used to live, charter schools were becoming really popular and had good reputations. The elementary school we were zoned for was one of the highest rated in a mid sized metro area...the problem was the high school (though they opened a new one not long ago which probably solved a bit of that), so in a situation like that, people are clamoring to get in in the early grades (Depending on what that is- 5/6 if the school is 6-12, K/1 if it is a K-12, etc) b/c it is very difficult to get in after the first couple years, there are only a few spots each year when kids leave and they often give sibling preferences, etc.
Another point to note, there are no buses to charter schools (at least places I'm familiar with) so even though it is a 'public' school, you have to figure out transportation to & from school each day.... which essentially means that while it is technically open to 'everyone' to attend (if they get selected in the lottery that is), it really isn't if parents have an obstacle (like working or $, etc) to the transportation issue.
Philly buses kids to all schools, public, private, and charter. Even private out of district limits (which is our situation).
interesting! I googled and I guess it varies state to state if they're required to provide transportation... I am glad some states do bc to me that just seemed so unfair where I lived...(NC)
Welcome to ed policy, 2013! Seriously, though this is a big issue with charters. Charters used to primarily be in poor/urban districts, but have been pushed in various states under "education reform" claims. But like you said, if you have a great public school, then why not send all the kids there?
Charters started out as a good idea - have a place for the kids who don't work well with traditional public schools. But it's turned into private, for-profit enterprises taking public funds - there's a big scandal brewing in Chicago over a huge charter chain misappropriating funds from a state grant. And like librarychica said, less quality control. Once there's no public board of ed or school council for parents and teachers to deal with, where is the need to be held accountable?
And yes, charters can choose what students the take, so they have less special ed/ELL/behavior problem kids...who end up at the public schools that are still left standing. And then "ed reform" people turn around and claim public schools are "failing" because they aren't doing as well (even though the student population has higher needs overall).
Charter school teachers are generally not unionized or as experienced as public school teachers.
Sorry, I'm a teacher for Chicago Public Schools, and the (unelected) school board just voted to shut down 10% of the elementary schools here, which is just so shameful and horrible. A bit bitter about public ed today!
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)
That's not true, though. If you are a middle-class/upper middle-class, well-educated family, then chances are your kids will be fine. And public schools in any area (but especially poor urban districts) benefit tremendously from middle-class families enrolling their children in them and becoming part of the school community.
I don't worry about my kids' future. DH and I can supplement their public education with enriching experiences/classes if we need to, and pay for private HS if it comes to it. But the fact that our family will be part of a greater school community in a poor urban district will greatly benefit the kids at that school who don't have the resources my kids have.
Hope that makes sense! This is a good overview of one school benefited from the middle-class buying into it:
https://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/January-2011/Nettelhorst-Elementary-Schools-Remarkable-Turnaround/
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)
Not true in all areas. Philadelphia is very very strict about the charters being open to ALL students. It is slightly biased for the catchment areas to ensure they are serving nearby communities but after that, it is strictly lottery based.
No, I totally get it. Like I said, before I got to the point of DS being school aged, I was all about public schools. But once at that decision point, I chose to give him the best that I could rather than make him a martyr in our failing school system and "supplement" him at home with everything he wasn't getting at school even though he should be. We spent a huge amount of time thinking about this as a family.
Would he be "fine" in public school here? Sure, I was too. But is he going to have a fabulously enriching experience where he is now? You bet and we are really excited about it. Imagine it - my kid will actually have physical education and an art teacher! How 1985!
FWIW, our nearby fantastic charter was started by my neighboring parents (in a middle class neighborhood) who had struggled to support and better the public elementary school down the block. They realized they could do it better without the limitations of the traditional district rules and they have succeeded. It is my hope that the public schools in Philly learn something from them and the competition forces some change. It is not my responsibility as a well educated middle class mother to take on the weight of fighting the district to make the nearby school better. I know it sounds mean and selfish but it is what it is. If I thought I would have a fighting chance, maybe I would consider it. But others that have come before me have failed.
I understand that you have a different perspective as a public school teacher and we will likely have to agree to disagree.
That's very much not the case in Chicago. And overall, states with less regulations for charters (FL and LA, for example) have had examples of charters not being staffed or prepared to teach special ed kids.
And also, parents who are going to apply for a charter school are by default more invested in their kid's education, right? So chances are those schools will have a more involved parents, and a stronger school overall. Not to mention that charters reserve the right to kick kids out, so you're not going to see the discipline issues you will with neighborhood ones (and also there's been documentation of charters kicking out kids to raise their scores and look better).
I dunno, no offense, but it is *is* selfish for middle-class families to only think about themselves and not buy in to their community. That's part of the reason urban systems aren't doing well - not enough buy-in from the middle class, because they have the means and ability to pay for private or enroll in a charter school.
For all its ills, Chicago PS has a high amount of school autonomy, so having enough community members buy in (meaning, generally white, middle-class families who know how to work the system in terms of getting more resources, etc.) can make a difference to individual schools. But that still doesn't change the fact that there are large swaths of the city that are very poor and not being gentrified anytime soon, and those are the ones who are getting very screwed.
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)
I hear you on this and thankfully, we live in an area w/ excellent public schools, however, you realize that when you take your kid out of public school, all the funding that can be used by the public schools to provide art, music, gym etc. GOES with you kid to the charter school - which only has very minimal administrative costs so they can afford more extras. Multiple that out by 1000 or 10,000 children and all the funding the state provides for the education of those kids and you can see how taking that money out of the system and leaving only the high needs kids with mandated Special Education provisions, etc. and you can see how the public schools are not able to provide as much. Its a hard decision and I don't want my kid to be a victim of this either. But there is a long term cost to pulling your kid out of the system.