Concern for a friends kids

LollyLawlz · May 2013

I have a friend who has six kids, three are her's and the others are from her new marriage. She has managed to self diagnose them all with different allergies ranging from milk to fruit to gluten. Never sees a doctor about it. Each week one of them is being kept home from school for a different ailment, usually serious and not always dr. diagnosed.

Yesterday one of them came down with the flu. She diagnosed it as meningitis and made the hospital conduct a spinal tap on her.

I've been concerned for awhile about the kids. I know it's none of my business but a spinal tap is pretty dangerous. I really just don't know what to think and wanted to see how others felt about it. My question is am I justified in being concerned or should I just mind my own business?

ETA: She will also take them to the hospital and post pictures the whole time of them getting treated. Including the spinal fluid.

linzeek44 · May 2013

I'm going to say it's a mind your business kind of thing.

The hospital would not do a spinal without reason, most likely. I'd trust them to do their job and her to do her parenting.

LollyLawlz · May 2013

That's what I thought. She told me that she had to argue with them to get them to do it. It's just been bugging me and I don't want to talk about it to anyone in IRL if it's a mind your own business type of thing. Thanks!

melody921 · May 2013

LoisLayn23:

She can't make a hospital do a spinal tap. If they did one, it was for a reason beyond "the mom made me."

This. Even if she's a hypochondriac, there must have been some reason that the hospital did this procedure.

LollyLawlz · May 2013

LoisLayn23:
cheeseandrice:
melody921:
LoisLayn23:

She can't make a hospital do a spinal tap. If they did one, it was for a reason beyond "the mom made me."

This. Even if she's a hypochondriac, there must have been some reason that the hospital did this procedure.

At this point, I'd be more worried about Munchausen's by Proxy.

I would hope the hospital wouldn't do an unnecessary spinal tap, but if she's coming up with good reasons and forced it,I'm not sure.

They'd still need some good indicators of medical necessity to tap a kid. It's one of our last resorts. I suppose if there were repeated ER visits with the same symptoms, no relief, and all other options were exhausted, they'd do it, but it would've still had to be their suggestion, they aren't going to say ok to some lady saying "do a spinal tap plz and thx."

She can be VERY convincing though. She knows a lot about different illnesses and diagnoses. Sometimes she'll tell me one of her kids has something I've never heard of and when I look it up it's very exotic. Not that I have a vast knowledge of illnesses or anything. It just seemed strange to me that when one of them comes down with something that seems simple like the flu, she automatically jumps to the most extreme thing it could be. This seriously happens almost weekly.

LollyLawlz · May 2013

LoisLayn23:
Call CPS or sumshit.

That's usually where this conversation leads, right?

I was actually trying to avoid it leading there.

1fish2fish · May 2013

cheeseandrice:
melody921:
LoisLayn23:

She can't make a hospital do a spinal tap. If they did one, it was for a reason beyond "the mom made me."

This. Even if she's a hypochondriac, there must have been some reason that the hospital did this procedure.

At this point, I'd be more worried about Munchausen's by Proxy.

I would hope the hospital wouldn't do an unnecessary spinal tap, but if she's coming up with good reasons and forced it,I'm not sure.

This is the very first thing that came to my mind.

Hyaline · May 2013

cheeseandrice:
melody921:
LoisLayn23:

She can't make a hospital do a spinal tap. If they did one, it was for a reason beyond "the mom made me."

This. Even if she's a hypochondriac, there must have been some reason that the hospital did this procedure.
At this point, I'd be more worried about Munchausen's by Proxy.
I would hope the hospital wouldn't do an unnecessary spinal tap, but if she's coming up with good reasons and forced it,I'm not sure.

This is the first thing I thought, too, and I know it's a long shot, but still. I thought, "well, probably just an overactive imagination/hypochondriac, but it could be mental illness..."

The thing is, if she is mentally ill, she could very easily list off all of the "right" symptoms to push the doc's hand in ordering a spinal tap. What else are they going to do when a mom lists off all the warning bell symptoms for meningitis *and* is adamant that the kid be tested? If they refuse and the kid *does* end up being seriously ill, major lawsuit.

If you really, really think the kids are not ill and the mom is essentially making them sick or blowing very minor things out of proportion to the point that the kids are in danger, yeah, call CPS. Or at the least keep an eye on it with the outlook to call if you feel it hits that point.

hmp1 · May 2013

Are you friends with her husband? Just wondering what his thoughts are on this.

This is one of those "I feel sorry for her kids" things but I wouldn't get involved at this point. The school knows they are missing a lot of school and the ER/pedi has a record of what the kids are having done. There are professionals involved that can step up if they see red flags.

LollyLawlz · May 2013

hmp&mrj:
Are you friends with her husband? Just wondering what his thoughts are on this.
This is one of those "I feel sorry for her kids" things but I wouldn't get involved at this point. The school knows they are missing a lot of school and the ER/pedi has a record of what the kids are having done. There are professionals involved that can step up if they see red flags.

I am semi friends with him. This is her third husband and it's fairly new so I haven't been able to spend a lot of time with him. He's always at work and when he's home he seems to just nap/ play on his computer. He's the type that doesn't really do anything for himself and expects her to cook for him and stuff. From what I've noticed anyways. I think this may be the best advice for now though. Thank you

LollyLawlz · May 2013

MiraskTastic:
LollyLawlz:
hmp&mrj:
Are you friends with her husband? Just wondering what his thoughts are on this.
This is one of those "I feel sorry for her kids" things but I wouldn't get involved at this point. The school knows they are missing a lot of school and the ER/pedi has a record of what the kids are having done. There are professionals involved that can step up if they see red flags.
I am semi friends with him. This is her third husband and it's fairly new so I haven't been able to spend a lot of time with him. He's always at work and when he's home he seems to just nap/ play on his computer. He's the type that doesn't really do anything for himself and expects her to cook for him and stuff. From what I've noticed anyways. I think this may be the best advice for now though. Thank you
he sounds like a winner

Agreed lol. But it's actually an improvement over the other 2. She seems to find a new one as soon as she loses one but that's another story.

watercolor5 · May 2013

LollyLawlz:
hmp&mrj:

Are you friends with her husband? Just wondering what his thoughts are on this.

This is one of those "I feel sorry for her kids" things but I wouldn't get involved at this point. The school knows they are missing a lot of school and the ER/pedi has a record of what the kids are having done. There are professionals involved that can step up if they see red flags.

I am semi friends with him. This is her third husband and it's fairly new so I haven't been able to spend a lot of time with him. He's always at work and when he's home he seems to just nap/ play on his computer. He's the type that doesn't really do anything for himself and expects her to cook for him and stuff. From what I've noticed anyways. I think this may be the best advice for now though. Thank you

Yes, I agree with hmp... talk to her husband, and see if he thinks your concerns are justified. I'd rather have an uncomfortable conversation with my friend's spouse over my concerns than call CPS on a friend.

Hyaline · May 2013

hmp&mrj:
Are you friends with her husband? Just wondering what his thoughts are on this.
This is one of those "I feel sorry for her kids" things but I wouldn't get involved at this point. The school knows they are missing a lot of school and the ER/pedi has a record of what the kids are having done. There are professionals involved that can step up if they see red flags.

This is true, but IMO if you truly feel the kids are in danger, you shouldn't wait for someone else to do something. There's no guarantee the school is putting all the pieces together, and if she's not taking the kids to the doc to "diagnose" these problems like the OP stated, it might fly under the medical professionals' radar, too.

I'm not saying run to the phone right nao. I'm just saying--if you're really seeing red flags, call.

It's also kinda alarming to me that she's posting all of this on FB--it's like she's desperately pleading for attention. Is this her norm, or something new? I agree--talk to her husband, keep an open dialogue with her.

EDIT: As a giant nerd, I looked this up, and you may want to proceed with caution speaking with her or making it obvious you're talking to her husband. Apparently some Munchhausen by Proxy sufferers will ramp up efforts to make their kids appear ill when confronted to try to "prove' that the kids really are sick. Medical websites are recommending that, if you think it is MbP, calling CPS. Again, not saying it is, just--be aware.

Eastie156 · May 2013

I honestly don't think talking to her husband if a good idea. You said it's her 3rd, right? He probably has no idea she has a problem (assuming she does) and it's probably best to keep your thoughts on what might be wrong with his wife to yourself. I'd call CPS, but leave it at that.

LollyLawlz · May 2013

Hyaline:
hmp&mrj:
Are you friends with her husband? Just wondering what his thoughts are on this.
This is one of those "I feel sorry for her kids" things but I wouldn't get involved at this point. The school knows they are missing a lot of school and the ER/pedi has a record of what the kids are having done. There are professionals involved that can step up if they see red flags.
This is true, but IMO if you truly feel the kids are in danger, you shouldn't wait for someone else to do something. There's no guarantee the school is putting all the pieces together, and if she's not taking the kids to the doc to "diagnose" these problems like the OP stated, it might fly under the medical professionals' radar, too.
I'm not saying run to the phone right nao. I'm just saying--if you're really seeing red flags, call.
It's also kinda alarming to me that she's posting all of this on FB--it's like she's desperately pleading for attention. Is this her norm, or something new? I agree--talk to her husband, keep an open dialogue with her.
EDIT: As a giant nerd, I looked this up, and you may want to proceed with caution speaking with her or making it obvious you're talking to her husband. Apparently some Munchhausen by Proxy sufferers will ramp up efforts to make their kids appear ill when confronted to try to "prove' that the kids really are sick. Medical websites are recommending that, if you think it is MbP, calling CPS. Again, not saying it is, just--be aware.

Yes I definitely hesitate to talk to her husband especially since I don't think she'd even allow me to be alone with him enough to talk to him. When he's around she's glued. It is her norm to post these things on FB. Every time she has taken one of them to the hospital she has always tagged herself there, takes pictures etc.

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