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Natural Birth
CountrieBum
member
Vaccinations... feeling torn and wondering your opinion
CountrieBum
member
Hello everyone I was a lurker till now.
My DH and I are planning a home birth and we are a very natural green family. We are planning a home birth with our first child. We are due September 27th. I am wondering how you all feel about the multitude of vaccinations they have children go through when they are infants up to when they are teenagers. Some are saying that the vaccinations are causing a crazy amount of things like Autism, ADHD, and developmental delays. And then there is the other side, where we don't live in a bubble and polio, diphtheria or measles or what ever else can come back to this country from other countries.
Just wondering if you all have any input or personal experiences in this subject. We are just trying to make the best decisions for our children and this one is definitely a large controversy now. I have been doing a lot of research and both sides really make good cases for why they vaccinate or don't vaccinate their children or themselves.
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Re: Vaccinations... feeling torn and wondering your opinion
It's not a large controversy. There are serious diseases. You can either protect your child (and society at large including those who can not be immunized, like newborns or people with cancer) or you can contribute to the resurgence and spread of these diseases. That's the choice.
I like what these non-vaxing parents have to say about their choice (after their son got tetanus and nearly died): https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10855638
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If you think there is mercury and thermerasol in MMR, then you must have a time machine and are planning to take your baby back to the 80's to get vaccinated.
Thimerasol has not been in children's vaccines for many years, and the doctor that "linked" it to autism has had his medical license stripped for being grossly incompetent.
https://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228#t1
You're not vetting your sources.
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That is a great article. I hope that boy lives and long and healthy life. Here is another one that you might enjoy.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10859544
ETA: Here is another interesting OP ed. I feel like I should start reading the NZ times.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10736233
I think it comes down to:
1. The benefits of vaccinations are well known.
2. The risks are not proven.
No scientific studies exist to prove these so-called risks. Any study that sought to prove them has been dispelled as fiction.
I am also a very "low medical intervention" person, although I work in a hospital and have a degree in the medical field. I can count on one hand the amount of times my husband and I have sought medical intervention in the past few years. I don't "pop a pill" for every little thing.
My brother has an autism-spectrum disorder that makes his life, as well as our family's life, very difficult.
Even so, I will be vaccinating our children on my pedi's recommended schedule.
Google image search "smallpox" - it may open your eyes.
This. Dr Sears wrote a great book that breaks down the ingredients of each vaccine and why it is important. He gives an alternative vaccine schedule which is great for delaying some vaccines. We went with the regular vaccine schedule since LO is in DC. All of the anti-vax info that is out there is crap and not from credible scientific sources. Vaccines are important and save lives.
This.
OP, if you're not getting your information on vaccines from actual, peer-reviewed medical studies (that haven't been recanted), then it's a bunch of crap. Talk to your child's pediatrician and follow the schedule s/he recommends, NOT the internet.
LOL, the majority used to think the world was flat too.
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That's exactly what I was gonna say!
To be a somewhat dissenting voice in this conversation, my husband and I are choosing to delay vaccinations at least until our daughter enters school and to only vaccinate against the stuff we were vaccinated against. So she'll be on a delayed circa 1980 schedule. It's not the idea of vaccinations that gives me pause, I think they're great - I had a bunch of them before a month long trek through Mongolia two years ago, it's the constantly increasing number of them at such a young age.
My 91 year old grandmother was only vaccinated against smallpox. At that time the Dtap vaccine had just been developed, but she didn't get it. My mom was born in the 1940s and received smallpox and Dtap. She received the polio vaccine in elementary school - as it wasn't recommended until the 1950s. My husband was born in 1972 and received Dtap and Polio. MMR wasn't officially recommended until 1977, so he received it when he was 5 years old. I was born in 1980 and received Dtap, Polio and MMR.
If my daughter was to receive all of the vaccines currently recommended, she'd get Dtap, Polio, MMR, Hepatitis A, Hepatitis B, Varicella, Rotavirus, hib, Pneumococcal, Influenza and Meningococcal. That just seems like a lot to process in her short life and a lot more than I or my husband had to deal with.
In the grand scheme of things, vaccines are a relatively new medical development and I'm hesitant to just jump in hook, line and sinker. I also hate the fact that there is aluminum in the vaccines. There's research that links it to neurotoxicity - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23609067
On a side note, the National Institute of Health's archives are a GREAT place to do research on just about anything health related if you don't mind reading through the very technical writing of medical studies. It houses a mind-numbing amount of information.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed
Good luck and congrats on your babe
The flaw with delaying vaccines until later in life is that the maximum benefit is when your child is most vulnerable - when they're young. A baby is more likely to die of most of those diseases than a 5 year old.
There are, of course, variations in recommendations. My LO missed rotavirus because it required special ordering and it just didn't happen. We don't do Hep A routinely in Canada, and Hep B is done in Grade 6 in my province. Influenza is optional and done at seasonal clinics; I really have no beef with people who choose to take those risks although personally I love my flu shot and get it as early as possible every year.
Pulling the "a lot to process" card is just ridiculous. Look at the amount of antigens a person encounters in a day. Look at the antigens in the vaccines you did receive in the 80's vs. those today. Today's vaccines are far more targeted and contain fewer antigens per dose. My son's immune system actually gets less of a workout than mine did from vaccines, while being protected from more diseases. And then you look at what we're exposed to in the natural environment and it's just not even consequential at all.
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/the-infection-schedule-vrs-the-vaccination-schedule/
"Worrying about the exposure from the vaccine schedule is like worrying about a thimble of water getting you wet when you are swimming in an ocean."
More on the antigens now vs. then: https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2013/03/29/vaccines-not-linked-to-autism-again/
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This. Note that I took out the sentence about feeling differently if he were in day care. I didn't let them give my son a vaccine at the hospital, because I just feel like it was too soon. I wanted to get to know him before he had any shots so if he does have a reaction, I can identify it and not just think he's always been that way. He'll have his first shots when he's 2 months old. He won't have more than 2 at a time. And, by the time he gets to school age, he'll be just as vaccinated as kids who had 4-6 shots at a time. I do feel like this is a middle of the road approach and I feel much more comfortable with it than the regular schedule.
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)
I'm all about vaccinating. I have zero qualms about "overloading" my children's bodies with the recommended vaccination schedule (although here in NZ i think our schedule is a bit different to yours).
The diseases we protect against are deadly. Thanks to modern medicine and vaccinations we seldom see kids dealing with these diseases, but my parents, pre the polio vaccine, grew up with kids who were crippled by polio, and other kids were taken away to live with an iron lung.
I think it's easy to forget how bad these diseases are because we're not around them, and to assume modern medicine will save us if we do get sick, because the doctors are pretty good at saving us a lot of the time BUT the reality is that these diseases are still out there, they still kill people, and if it's your child who dies then you'll have to live with that.
Elizabeth 5yrs old Jane 3yrs old
My family is not the norm...A relative of my husband got vaccinations when she was a baby she she is now in a vegetative state (there was and is no other explanation other than the vaccinations). My husband and his twin sister got their first vaccinations and had really abnormal reactions to them, so they didn't get anymore, and none of their siblings got any. My son hasn't had any, and probably will never get any.
If my husband and his family didn't have such horrible reactions to vaccinations, we would be vaccinating.
And that's why herd immunity is so important. To look after those who, for whatever reason, are too at risk to get vaccinated.
Elizabeth 5yrs old Jane 3yrs old
Mom to Carter (6), and Calianne (1).
Proud VBAC, natural birth, breastfeeding, cloth diapering momma!
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The thought in the back of my mind as far as "overloading" with too many vaccines is "what will they have to do to my sweet baby if he contracts one of these terrible diseases?" The cure (if any at all) for these things is far worse than medication thru 2-4 shots every few months...
This is false. There is no credible, peer-reviewed information which advises against vaccination. One side is science and fact, the other side is bunk and has been thoroughly disproved time and again.
The science proves that the benefits far outweigh the risks. We vaccinate on the CDC schedule (except for the delay of Hep at birth).
Flu shots annually for the whole family too.
DH sat on a board for disaster response and an outbreak plan has already been in place for a while because the numbers tell them it will happen. Whooping cough is already a problem.
My sisters and I all had chicken pox when I was a kid. My younger sister was 2 and had a very serious case (and continued to be sick on and off the rest of that winter). My oldest sister was 16 and ended up with Bell's Palsy as a side effect, and had infected spots also. And this is with kids who weren't immuno-suppressed!
Nothing to mess around with, IMO.
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)
FTR, my LO has gotten all his vaccines except Hep B on schedule.
Do the research as the others have said. Seek out truly well-substantiated research rather than hearsay.
We are a low-intervention family but we are pro-vax and vaccinated our first son on schedule and plan to do the same with this one.
Our pediatrician, who has five children of her own, is strongly pro BFing and all things natural, is very well-read and keeps up with current research, and runs an organic farm, is a staunch supporter of vaccinations.
Really great post, everyone! I am also a cautiously pro-vaccination first time parent to be. I have just a few concerns, which I've already discussed during my pedi interview.
1) Are all of the vacinations necessary? I mean, some diseases we're still vaccinating for are pretty much eradicated (ie, polio?). So, why are we still vacinating for them?
2) Do we have to give so many at one time? I'd much rather space them out a little more, even if that means more doctor visits. I mean, how are you supposed to identify if your baby has an adverse reaction to a vaccine if you've given them five different shots?
Shannon
1) Polio might be very rare in North America, but with these pesky things called "airplanes", you never know when something will happen and there could be an outbreak. People travel to places where polio is still an issue. Then they come back here.
2) My baby has never had 5 different shots because most vaccines are combination shots. Getting separate shots is possible, but difficult to source. The most he ever had in one go was 3 sticks. Most visits were 2 (one in each leg). There is an alternate schedule in the Dr. Sears Vaccine Book, but it has never actually been shown to have any advantages. It also leaves your child vulnerable to those diseases while you delay.
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We space them out when they are little, so they get two per month, every month, instead of the standard every-other month. They are still fully vaccinated by 12-18 months.
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)
I'm normally a lurker as well, but vaccines are a topic that I feel very passionate about. So here goes a LONG response...
I honestly believe that no matter what decision you make, you need for it to be an INFORMED decision. Do as much research you can before he/she is born. Learn what the disease is that the vaccine is intended to protect against, how it is acquired (blood, air, etc.), how common it is, and what the effects of the disease are. So many vaccines are for diseases that many of us probably had as children (like chicken pox). Do you feel a vaccine is necessary for something that is not life threatening?
These are answers that only you can answer, and I truly believe that no matter what decision you make, whether to vaccinate fully, on an alternative schedule, or not at all, it needs to be a commitment. If something goes wrong with the vaccine (side effects), which does happen, will you still stand behind your decision? If you don't vaccinate and your child gets something that could have been prevented, will you still believe you did what was right?
That's how my husband and I came about our decision. It should not matter what I'm going to do, or what someone else on this board is going to do, it only matters what your decision is, and the best decision you can make for your child is one that is based on facts, rather than opinions or emotions! Good luck!