Need some strategies to stop raging at my 3 yr old

KateLouise · March 2013

I've been getting really irate at my 3 yr old. Generally her behaviour is really good, and even her "bad" behaviour isn't that terrible. So when I rage at her, I know I am completely over-reacting.

Partly it is my own tiredness. Partly it is becoming a habit for me to just rage at her (this makes me really uncomfortable. I don't like scaring her, and I don't want to model this behaviour to her) Partly it's the whining that just drives me bonkers.

After I've raged, and I've calmed down, which is almost instantly, we snuggle and I apologise. I explain what part of her beahviour was frustrating, and how I'd like her to behave, but that I over-reacted to the situation and I'm sorry for yelling.

I should point out that she is not in any physical danger, and that I never name call, it will be just be more me yelling, "I've told you to come here...."

So what strategies do you use to deal with your frustration when you're tired and your 3 yr old just keeps on and on, no matter how many times you have calmly explained why they need to do/not do x, y and z?

acia · March 2013

I'm not a yeller, but there have been a handful of times recently that my 3.5 year old has pushed me over the edge, and I get angry and yelled. It's always been when I'm exhausted and she's just not cooperating - and usually it has to do with bedtime. And I ALWAYS feel super guilty about it afterwards because I know it scares her, which is the opposite of the feeling I want her to have obviously!

In any case, I just picked up a copy of "Peaceful Parent, Happy Kids: How to stop yelling and start connecting" (Dr. Laura Markham). The yelling part doesn't really apply to me most of the time, but I was finding that even when I wasn't yelling, I was having to bribe/threaten too much for my comfort zone (ideally I'd like to NEVER do these things - but they come from a place of desperation and frustration). And I feel like my relationship with her has deteriorated since the birth of her younger sister nearly a year ago, which I think affects how she acts or behaves and how I respond - not sure if that plays a role for you as well since our kids are similarly spaced....

I haven't read much of the book yet but I think it would be really helpful for you, because the part I did read (the first section) really focused on yelling and provided strategies to help you avoid yelling, as well as providing insight into WHY the yelling occurs.

The book just came out pretty recently so I'm not sure if it's even available in NZ (I live in Australia right now and I actually had it shipped through Fishpond.com from the states). If you can't get it, the author also has a website (AhaParenting.com) that has lots of tips on it....

Good luck!

sweetpea2003 · March 2013

I have a very long fuse, but when you get to the end of it - WATCH OUT. Thankfully, my kids rarely reach the end and I rarely RARELY yell at them. But I have a handful of times and have felt like absolute crap afterward.

I really love the book "123 Magic". It talks about taking the emotion out of discipline. When we do things we regret with discipline, it is when we are angry and overly emotional. It is important to bite our tongue, take a deep breath, and systematically and calmly deal with the issue. I like the 123 system because it gives everyone a minute to be alone and decompress. So that instead of "raging" and then apologizing and talking, you put your child in a safe time out space for a small amount of time, let you and her calm down, THEN talk about it.

My kids respond well to the methods in 123 Magic. I am pretty "strict" I suppose (I have high expectations and try to be consistently kind, consistent, and firm) but I almost never ever yell and absolutely would never hit or spank. These days, I get to "one" and both of my kids stop the behavior they were doing and move on. It really does work . Even with little ones.

pitterpatter129 · March 2013

I'm a yeller. Totally a yeller. I always feel bad too when I yell. The thing is, I teach elementary school and I have myself under complete control with 25 first graders in the room. I rarely raise my voice. At home with a two year old and a new baby, I'm a nutcase. I'm going to blame it partially on new changing hormones and lack of sleep, but I'm glad you posted this because I can relate and I'm going to find that book the first poster mentioned.

Bride-hilda · March 2013

I'd start dealing out time-outs for whining. It's unacceptable behavior, IMHO.

Bride-hilda · March 2013

I'd start dealing out time-outs for whining. It's unacceptable behavior, IMHO.

I think that sounds harsh, but with consistent time-outs, kids will correct their behavior, and I'm sorry, but whining is a terrible habit, and it's a time-out, not a life sentence.

KateLouise · March 2013

Thanks ladies. I'm a high school teacher, and I'm in control at school too, so I know I'm perfectly capable of controlling myself and not just scremaing like a banshee.

I agree that whining is unacceptable behaviour. I'm not really into time-outs however. She doesn't always whine, generally she's very accepting of being told no, or to wait or whatever. It's when she's tired that she gets whiney. I generally don't engage with the whining, in that I tell her I can't understand her and when she's ready to speak nicely I'll be able to help her out.

Whining is really her version of a tantrum/meltdown. It's when her brain has disengaged and she's lost the ability to manage herself, and she'll just launch from whining from one really trivial thing to another, rather than her just whining as her MO because she'll get her own way.

I think part of the problem is us dealing with each other in the morning getting ready to head out the door, and at the end of the day and doing the dinner/bath/bedtime rush...when of course is when we're both at our most fraught and tired.

erbear · March 2013

I drink. Heavily.

Just kidding (kind of).

Three was HARD. Four is harder. I try to remind myself constantly that she's just testing her limits, it's perfectly normal, and I'm the adult. I would like to say that this has solved the issue, but I'd be lying. So I just make sure she knows I love her, and I forgive myself and repeat my mantra: this too shall pass.

Pass the beer.

pitterpatter129 · March 2013

Just saw this on pinterest - 25 ways to stay a calm parent. https://awesomelyawake.com/how-to-be-a-calm-parent/

Still free to be me · March 2013

My bookgroup (several ladies, all with one or two kiddos age 3 1/2 and younger) just had a special meeting where we invited two "experts" (mamas with 4 and 5 kiddos, who are several years older than 3) to come and brainstorm how to deal with 3 year olds... One of the expert mamas asked her oldest daughter (10ish?) how she thought 3 year olds should be dealt with. Her answer was, "3 year olds are awful. You should just plop 'em down in front of the tv and wait until they turn four."

All joking aside, it was really helpful to have a brainstorming session on how to deal with 3 year old behaviors. Re: the whining (that my DD was getting really good at), I very calmly tell her that "you don't ever get what you want when you whine and cry." If she can ask in a "stronger, big girl voice" she almost always gets what she is asking for. Her whining has definitely decreased. We are at the point that I don't always remind her to ask in a less grating way and she often will whine something, then stop herself and correct it.

The other thing that was REALLY helpful for me was to remember that she is only 3 years old and to adjust my attitude. It has either worked really well, or my DD has totally transformed in just a couple weeks...I have not been nearly as negative or frustrated with DD since I reminded myself that, even though she is really independent and has gained a lot of skills, she is still really little...

sweetpea2003 · March 2013

KateLouise:

I agree that whining is unacceptable behaviour. I'm not really into time-outs however. She doesn't always whine, generally she's very accepting of being told no, or to wait or whatever. It's when she's tired that she gets whiney. I generally don't engage with the whining, in that I tell her I can't understand her and when she's ready to speak nicely I'll be able to help her out.

honest question, then what do you do? Other than yelling?

Kids are not mini adults. You cannot reason with them. People who sit down and try to explain emotions to the under 5 set are wasting their breath. It might make YOU feel better to have a heart-to-heart, but it has done nothing for your child.

Time outs are just a break. I think that from what you have posted, YOU might need the time out as much as your child. I would encourage you to re-think your dislike for TOs. From my standpoint they are the best balance between effective and gentle discipline. Nobody gets hurt, nobody is scarred from yelling or hitting or spanking, everyone gets a moment to recompose, and the child gets 0 attention for their behavior (which, at the root of all behavior is attention seeking).

nosoup4u · March 2013

pitterpatter129:
I'm a yeller. Totally a yeller. I always feel bad too when I yell. The thing is, I teach elementary school and I have myself under complete control with 25 first graders in the room. I rarely raise my voice. At home with a two year old and a new baby, I'm a nutcase. I'm going to blame it partially on new changing hormones and lack of sleep, but I'm glad you posted this because I can relate and I'm going to find that book the first poster mentioned.

This is me. I teach at the elementary level, too, and the patience I have with those kids that I don't have at home has been a constant struggle, and something I feel crappy about.

And time outs have never worked for either of my kids - the act of getting them to try and do a time out just pisses off everyone more.

If it's during morning/night time routines, would it help to have more time to do them? I think our whole bedtime routine takes about an hour, so we can read a ton of books and don't have to rush through it. DS1 has always responded well to having a timer go off when it's time to do something, I think it's more of a neutral object than DH or I telling him time's up.

Other than that, try to figure out what your triggers are. It sort of helps me to know if I have a short fuse that day, and try to look out for it. And yes, three was very very hard at our house, too!

MommyKayla11 · March 2013

My vote is for time outs as well.

acia · March 2013

I'm not a time-out user either - we don't really do any punishment, and try to avoid sticker charts and other such incentives. I think there is another way, really - time-outs aren't necessary for a happy, healthy kid. Alfie Kohn's book lays it out. The book I'm in the process of reading talks about it too (Peaceful parent, happy kids - by Laura Markham). Here's a link to why time-outs aren't effective:

https://www.positiveparentingsolutions.com/time-out/transform-your-time-outs-to-time-ins-guest-post-from-dr-laura-markham

I think maybe time outs can be effective if you need them for yourself, a breather to gather and compose yourself - as long as you're not using it as a punishment for your kid.

But seriously, to the OP, read that book I suggested earlier! I'm half way through it and I think it might really help - it's from an attachment parenting stand-point but very practical, with real advice.

Good luck!

LatteLady5 · March 2013

sweetpea2003:
KateLouise:
I agree that whining is unacceptable behaviour. I'm not really into time-outs however. She doesn't always whine, generally she's very accepting of being told no, or to wait or whatever. It's when she's tired that she gets whiney. I generally don't engage with the whining, in that I tell her I can't understand her and when she's ready to speak nicely I'll be able to help her out.
honest question, then what do you do? Other than yelling?
Kids are not mini adults. You cannot reason with them. People who sit down and try to explain emotions to the under 5 set are wasting their breath. It might make YOU feel better to have a heart-to-heart, but it has done nothing for your child.
Time outs are just a break. I think that from what you have posted, YOU might need the time out as much as your child. I would encourage you to re-think your dislike for TOs. From my standpoint they are the best balance between effective and gentle discipline. Nobody gets hurt, nobody is scarred from yelling or hitting or spanking, everyone gets a moment to recompose, and the child gets 0 attention for their behavior (which, at the root of all behavior is attention seeking).

I'm not anti-time out. I know they have their place but just like any other parenting strategy, it doesn't work for all kids. My kid isn't even two yet so the most "time-out" type thing we do is a sit down/calm down on the bottom stair on or her dora step. I don't think all behavior is attention seeking even though some of it may be.

Kate, it seems like this is happening more frequently when you're rushing...yeah? Could you give yourself a little more time in the morning or even get stuff ready before bedtime so you don't feel so rushed. I HATE feeling rushed and it instantly puts me in a bad mood. Another idea might be a calm down contraption of some kind. I've found that prevention is really the best strategy.

CalinsBride · March 2013

acia:
I'm not a time-out user either - we don't really do any punishment, and try to avoid sticker charts and other such incentives. I think there is another way, really - time-outs aren't necessary for a happy, healthy kid. Alfie Kohn's book lays it out. The book I'm in the process of reading talks about it too (Peaceful parent, happy kids - by Laura Markham). Here's a link to why time-outs aren't effective:
https://www.positiveparentingsolutions.com/time-out/transform-your-time-outs-to-time-ins-guest-post-from-dr-laura-markham
I think maybe time outs can be effective if you need them for yourself, a breather to gather and compose yourself - as long as you're not using it as a punishment for your kid.
But seriously, to the OP, read that book I suggested earlier! I'm half way through it and I think it might really help - it's from an attachment parenting stand-point but very practical, with real advice.
Good luck!

This article is about time-outs for managing emotions. DS gets a time-out of he hurts someone else, because that is unacceptable and the only thing that works. Talking doesn't work, we don't spank, when he has a time out he comes out ready to listen and not repeat the behaviour.

SOMETIMES we give him a time-out if he is in a horrible mood and whining and crying and fixating on something he wants but can't have. We don't call it a "time out", we tell him we think he needs to go lay down and rest. Before this option is exercised we offer hugs or snuggles, but if he rejects them and just continues to whine and cry then yes, he goes off to his room. Sometimes it's really just that he's tired and he falls asleep and wakes up peachy. Sometimes he just needs a few minutes and then we hear him playing and laughing in there and when he comes out he feels much better. I know when I'm upset I need time to myself. DH is the same way. IMO, this approach IS teaching him to regulate his emotions--when a situation is too upsetting it makes sense to take a breather, remove yourself, and wait until you're feeling better.

kcisthebombdotcom · March 2013

sweetpea2003:
KateLouise:
I agree that whining is unacceptable behaviour. I'm not really into time-outs however. She doesn't always whine, generally she's very accepting of being told no, or to wait or whatever. It's when she's tired that she gets whiney. I generally don't engage with the whining, in that I tell her I can't understand her and when she's ready to speak nicely I'll be able to help her out.
honest question, then what do you do? Other than yelling?
Kids are not mini adults. You cannot reason with them. People who sit down and try to explain emotions to the under 5 set are wasting their breath. It might make YOU feel better to have a heart-to-heart, but it has done nothing for your child.
Time outs are just a break. I think that from what you have posted, YOU might need the time out as much as your child. I would encourage you to re-think your dislike for TOs. From my standpoint they are the best balance between effective and gentle discipline. Nobody gets hurt, nobody is scarred from yelling or hitting or spanking, everyone gets a moment to recompose, and the child gets 0 attention for their behavior (which, at the root of all behavior is attention seeking).

i don't necessarily think that punishing a child for having emotions is a good way to teach kids how to deal with emotions. i also don't think that it's the only way to teach a child not to whine is to punish them for doing it--you can teach a child which is the definition of discipline after all without having to punish. most of the time i can stop whining from occuring if i offer two yeses to something i can't give him, like we can't do x, would you like y or z instead. most of the time if that doesn't work, whining occurs because of some underlying issue--exhaustion/hunger so i try to fix that vs punishing him for reacting negatively to feeling like that. even as an adult if i'm overly hungry/tired i get irritable so what is the purpose to punish my child for feeling that way? if there's no true underlying cause, a simple 'whining hurts my ears, please stop' does the trick since preschoolers do have empathy and feel sadness when others hurt.

i think you may be severely discounting the cognitive abilities of a three year old child if you think punishment is the only way to teach.

kjcrow · March 2013

In addition to reading up on professional advice, I would recommend getting in some exercise when you can. (I am a mom too so I know how hard this can be.) Working out can really help you relieve the stress you have building up and increase your endorphins, making you a happier mom and your children happier too.

You might also consider that your daughter is "acting out" or not listening as a way to get your attention. A simple fix could be to schedule time with just her to do something she really likes, or just spend a little extra time showing her positive attention.

Lastly, I would just say that the pattern of raging and apologizing is an unhealthy model for future relationships. She will begin to think that the apologizing makes it ok/excuses the behavior - but then the behavior continues to happen. If she thinks that it is ok to be treated this way by someone who loves her, she will let others treat her that way as an adult too - i.e. romantic relationships. I know this from experience (being the child of a mother who raged) and it took me a long time to break it.

Best of luck! And good for you for asking for help/advice!

webMistress0609 · March 2013

Just to add to the great advice you've already rec'd, but look into a routine chart. We were having serious battles over a.m. & p.m. routines, & a routine chart turned it around immediately. Ari loves his routine chart & insists on reading it at the start of the morning & evening activities. He'll even remind me if I do things out of order.

sunkissed7804 · March 2013

KateLouise:
Thanks ladies. I'm a high school teacher, and I'm in control at school too, so I know I'm perfectly capable of controlling myself and not just scremaing like a banshee.
I agree that whining is unacceptable behaviour. I'm not really into time-outs however. She doesn't always whine, generally she's very accepting of being told no, or to wait or whatever. It's when she's tired that she gets whiney. I generally don't engage with the whining, in that I tell her I can't understand her and when she's ready to speak nicely I'll be able to help her out.
Whining is really her version of a tantrum/meltdown. It's when her brain has disengaged and she's lost the ability to manage herself, and she'll just launch from whining from one really trivial thing to another, rather than her just whining as her MO because she'll get her own way.
I think part of the problem is us dealing with each other in the morning getting ready to head out the door, and at the end of the day and doing the dinner/bath/bedtime rush...when of course is when we're both at our most fraught and tired.

It seems you are already on the road to success because you know what tends to trigger her behavior. I also do not like the term "time out" We have our own version..."Chill out"...this is reserved for when she is disrespectful and needs to just go calm down.

With the whining...I tell my daughter "I'm sorry...I don't speak whine! Can you try again so I can understand you?" (I usually try to be funny the first time around.) If she continues, I look directly at her and I say calmly "When you are ready to speak in words I can understand, I will be ready to listen." And then I ignore her. It can be really hard sometimes because she will just make me crazy.

My six-year-old still does this!!!!

If I notice that she is particularly tired or maybe seems off (perhaps something else is upsetting her and she is just whiney in general) I will use a hug invite. I will say to her "You're upset. Can I give you a hug/squeeze/etc.?" If she says no, I say "Well, I really need a hug because I am feeling upset too. Can you give me one?" Seriously, 9 times out of 10...that ends it!! When she snuggles in my lap (sometimes stiff but eventually melts) I will ask her a curiosity question like "We are both a little upset. How can we communicate better to solve this? Can we come up with a plan together?"

I am going through a Positive Discipline online course and I am learning so much. This stuff really works!! jaja

Good luck mama!!

KateLouise · March 2013

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions ladies. I've been doing a lot of thinking and reflecting, and your ideas have really helped me focus on the actual issues, and start using strategies to improve my behaviour. Even just being more mindful of my behaviour has helped me catch myself before I become a shrieking banshee.

I want to clarify a couple of my earlier comments because I think I was confusing in my statements. In terms of Time out and saying, "i'm not really into it." I was thinking of that term in a very specific context. I don't see it as appropriate tool when it's used as a punishment for a child expressing themselves in a safe but irritating way, or when they're just completely tired and have lots the ability to self management. But that is very different, to my mind, when it's used as a "chill out" or "rest/time to yourself" time.

So, for those who wondered what strategies I use to help DD manage her behaviour, I absolutely suggest/offer/insist on quiet time in her room when she is beside herself and really needs to unwind. We also use it, when DD has done something completely unacceptable like hit someone.

What I was really wanted help with was how to manage MY behaviour. Because there are times where I am following our processes around time-out, processes that I'm completely confident in and know work with DD, but rather than instigating them in a really calm manner, I'll be screaming at DD because I am frustrated with her behaviour. Honestly, sometimes I behave like a tantrum throwing 3 yr old, and I would be mortified if someone else observed me.

There are also times when DD will go from minor irritating behaviour to minor irritating behaviour, and each time she'll respond really quickly to my reminders or instructions on what she should be doing, but by the time she's onto her 5th irritating behaviour then again I am frothing at the mouth with rage.

In many ways I'm embarrassed to admit it, and it was starting to become a habit, but admitting it has helped me really think about it, and it's not what I want for myself or my children. Like pp, I had a parent who raged at me too.

I have really identified how stressed I am (there's a lot going on in our world), and really started working on keeping myself in a calmer space which makes dealing with DD much more manageable, and it's helping me really enjoy her, because she is, like most 3 yr olds, a really lovely little girl with so much joy and fun in her.

Anyway, thanks again ladies, for the ideas, the links and book suggestions. It's all been a huge help.

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