~Bzeety~

J&D2007 · February 2013

Hey- can you answer a ccrm question for me? You can pm me if you prefer. What is the difference between CCS and PGS? Is it just the day it's done? Day 5 vs Day 3? And I'm trying to get an idea of how much a cycle there costs, so I'm wondering if you'd mind telling me how much they charge for it? All costs but that one are listed on their website... (Oh, and they sure charge a lot for ICSI!). Tia!

BzeetyD · February 2013

I found this the other day when looking into the differences between CCS and PGD.

https://www.whitneyanderick.com/?p=5411

Briefly, in CCS testing, blasts are tested only on day 5 or 6, not day 3. All the chromosome pairs are testing whereas in PGD, less than half (5 to 11) are tested.

Obviously this also mean that all the embryos would be frozen and no fresh transfer would happen.

In my paperwork all of our items are labeled "IVF with CCS" at the top and there is a line breakdown for "embryo biopsy" and that is listed at $1500 (I know it includes up to 10 embryos) over 10 and it is $500 per embryo.

I hope that helps.

BzeetyD · February 2013

Also only normal embryos are transferred back in an FET. I don't know the quality/grading that the embryo needs to have achieved to be considered a candidate for an FET.

J&D2007 · February 2013

Thanks for the link, that explained well. So, you are saying that it is part of the cost of ivf , plus additional $1500 for the biopsy? I'm a little surprised they aren't charging more.. Thanks much!

PurpleIris30 · February 2013

BzeetyD:
I found this the other day when looking into the differences between CCS and PGD.
https://www.whitneyanderick.com/?p=5411
Briefly, in CCS testing, blasts are tested only on day 5 or 6, not day 3. All the chromosome pairs are testing whereas in PGD, less than half (5 to 11) are tested.

I just wanted to add that CGH (which CCRM calls CCS, but it's the same thing) can be done with PGD; they aren't mutually exclusive terms. "PGD" is used as a global term referring to embryos being screened for genetic issues from hereditary diseases to chromosomal screening, and it gets confusing because people use the term to refer to lots of different techniques. CGH or CCS is actually a microarray test, which enables the lab to look at more chromosomes versus the PGS test, which uses a different technique called FISH.

So for instance, we could do a chromosomal analysis of all chromosomes using CGH along with our PGD to screen for a fatal single gene defect. I don't know if I've clarified or made this more confusing, but just trying to clarify the use of the term "PGD."

PurpleIris30 · February 2013

J&D2007:
Thanks for the link, that explained well. So, you are saying that it is part of the cost of ivf , plus additional $1500 for the biopsy? I'm a little surprised they aren't charging more.. Thanks much!

I can't speak for CCRM's pricing here, because I can't remember how it was listed when I talked to them about our PGD case (we opted not to go with them). But at the rest of the clinics, the actual testing fee is a cost that is paid to an outside lab (often Reprogenetics or Genesis Genetics). So you'd pay ~$1500 to CCRM for the biopsy, and then $3-5,000 to the outside lab for the actual testing. Perhaps because CCRM does so much CGH, they bundle the cost together, but I suspect you still have a separate cost for the testing because it is done at a separate facility.

We are doing a completely different test, but our PGD costs for the biopsy, probe preparation, and testing of embryos adds over $7,000 to our ivf costs. If we were just doing CGH, the cost would be lower (about $5,000), plus the extra costs associated with doing a FET later.

BzeetyD · February 2013

PurpleIris30:
BzeetyD:
I found this the other day when looking into the differences between CCS and PGD.
https://www.whitneyanderick.com/?p=5411
Briefly, in CCS testing, blasts are tested only on day 5 or 6, not day 3. All the chromosome pairs are testing whereas in PGD, less than half (5 to 11) are tested.

I just wanted to add that CGH (which CCRM calls CCS, but it's the same thing) can be done with PGD; they aren't mutually exclusive terms. "PGD" is used as a global term referring to embryos being screened for genetic issues from hereditary diseases to chromosomal screening, and it gets confusing because people use the term to refer to lots of different techniques. CGH or CCS is actually a microarray test, which enables the lab to look at more chromosomes versus the PGS test, which uses a different technique called FISH.
So for instance, we could do a chromosomal analysis of all chromosomes using CGH along with our PGD to screen for a fatal single gene defect. I don't know if I've clarified or made this more confusing, but just trying to clarify the use of the term "PGD."

Thanks Iris.

--------------------

In my opinion there are so many clinics that use the term "PGD" that I think patients should take it upon themselves to be well informed about what exactly that test includes and what exactly is being tested for, as in many places is it not comprehensive.

Also just because someone is having "PGD" run at their clinic does not make it the same test that occurred with another bumpie who had "PGD" at another clinic.

Here is another explanation of CCS or CGH vs "PGD or FISH"

https://www.ivf1.com/comprehensive-chromosomal-screening/

PurpleIris30 · February 2013

BzeetyD:
PurpleIris30:
BzeetyD:
I found this the other day when looking into the differences between CCS and PGD.
https://www.whitneyanderick.com/?p=5411
Briefly, in CCS testing, blasts are tested only on day 5 or 6, not day 3. All the chromosome pairs are testing whereas in PGD, less than half (5 to 11) are tested.

I just wanted to add that CGH (which CCRM calls CCS, but it's the same thing) can be done with PGD; they aren't mutually exclusive terms. "PGD" is used as a global term referring to embryos being screened for genetic issues from hereditary diseases to chromosomal screening, and it gets confusing because people use the term to refer to lots of different techniques. CGH or CCS is actually a microarray test, which enables the lab to look at more chromosomes versus the PGS test, which uses a different technique called FISH.
So for instance, we could do a chromosomal analysis of all chromosomes using CGH along with our PGD to screen for a fatal single gene defect. I don't know if I've clarified or made this more confusing, but just trying to clarify the use of the term "PGD."
Thanks Iris.
There are so many clinics that use the term "PGD" that I think patients should take it upon themselves to be well informed about what exactly that test includes and what exactly is being tested for, as in many places is it not comprehensive.
Also just because you're having "PGD" run at your clinic does not make it the same test that occurred with another bumpie who had "PGD" at another clinic.
Here is another explanation of CCS or CGH vs "PGD or FISH"
https://www.ivf1.com/comprehensive-chromosomal-screening/

The only point I was trying to make is that the term "PGD" is not the same as the partial chromosomal screening using FISH (which is more precisely referred to as PGS), and the terms "PGD" and "FISH" shouldn't be used interchangeably, even though some clinics and websites do. We have the same point, in that it creates confusion for patients. I was just trying to clarify the language.

We're doing PGD without doing PGS or CGH.

BzeetyD · February 2013

J&D2007:
Thanks for the link, that explained well. So, you are saying that it is part of the cost of ivf , plus additional $1500 for the biopsy? I'm a little surprised they aren't charging more.. Thanks much!

Yes. That is what I am saying.

Because we're seeking out CCS for this next cycle, I don't have paperwork that shows anything but costs related to a cycle that would include it. SO... I would not assume that CCS only costs $1500, because it in itself is a bigger process than just a biopsy. There's the CC.RM lab which has to take cells out of the embryos, the freezing, the shipping of samples, the lab that runs the CCS test, the prep of any normal embryos and the FET part of it. These elements are listed out but are part of a CCS package price, so it's not like an a la carte deal.

I sent you a PM with more specifics.

BzeetyD · February 2013

PurpleIris30:
BzeetyD:
PurpleIris30:
BzeetyD:
I found this the other day when looking into the differences between CCS and PGD.
https://www.whitneyanderick.com/?p=5411
Briefly, in CCS testing, blasts are tested only on day 5 or 6, not day 3. All the chromosome pairs are testing whereas in PGD, less than half (5 to 11) are tested.

I just wanted to add that CGH (which CCRM calls CCS, but it's the same thing) can be done with PGD; they aren't mutually exclusive terms. "PGD" is used as a global term referring to embryos being screened for genetic issues from hereditary diseases to chromosomal screening, and it gets confusing because people use the term to refer to lots of different techniques. CGH or CCS is actually a microarray test, which enables the lab to look at more chromosomes versus the PGS test, which uses a different technique called FISH.
So for instance, we could do a chromosomal analysis of all chromosomes using CGH along with our PGD to screen for a fatal single gene defect. I don't know if I've clarified or made this more confusing, but just trying to clarify the use of the term "PGD."
Thanks Iris.
There are so many clinics that use the term "PGD" that I think patients should take it upon themselves to be well informed about what exactly that test includes and what exactly is being tested for, as in many places is it not comprehensive.
Also just because you're having "PGD" run at your clinic does not make it the same test that occurred with another bumpie who had "PGD" at another clinic.
Here is another explanation of CCS or CGH vs "PGD or FISH"
https://www.ivf1.com/comprehensive-chromosomal-screening/
The only point I was trying to make is that the term "PGD" is not the same as the partial chromosomal screening using FISH (which is more precisely referred to as PGS), and the terms "PGD" and "FISH" shouldn't be used interchangeably, even though some clinics and websites do. We have the same point, in that it creates confusion for patients. I was just trying to clarify the language.
We're doing PGD without doing PGS or CGH.

Yes, we're on the same page and my comments about PGD weren't directed at you, specifically - they were just a general public "you." I will edit that comment to make it clearer.

BzeetyD · February 2013

PurpleIris30:
J&D2007:
Thanks for the link, that explained well. So, you are saying that it is part of the cost of ivf , plus additional $1500 for the biopsy? I'm a little surprised they aren't charging more.. Thanks much!
I can't speak for CCRM's pricing here, because I can't remember how it was listed when I talked to them about our PGD case (we opted not to go with them). But at the rest of the clinics, the actual testing fee is a cost that is paid to an outside lab (often Reprogenetics or Genesis Genetics). So you'd pay ~$1500 to CCRM for the biopsy, and then $3-5,000 to the outside lab for the actual testing. Perhaps because CCRM does so much CGH, they bundle the cost together, but I suspect you still have a separate cost for the testing because it is done at a separate facility.
We are doing a completely different test, but our PGD costs for the biopsy, probe preparation, and testing of embryos adds over $7,000 to our ivf costs. If we were just doing CGH, the cost would be lower (about $5,000), plus the extra costs associated with doing a FET later.

Yes, this is similar to the total piece of the package that we are using as well.

BzeetyD · February 2013

To all: I feel like this thread got very confusing and I know it's my fault. That wasn't my intention and I'm not trying to be cagey or contradictory. Embarrassed

to J&D2007: the PM I sent should help clear things up for you a bit

rockpaperlove · February 2013

The OOP expense for CCRM for their specified genetic testing is give or take 7k. FWIW. And, I saw no issue with this thread. I think it is awesome for OP that the responses were so detailed!

~Bzeety~

Re: ~Bzeety~

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