Researching Vaccines

unaveragejane · February 2013

I don't want to start a vaccine debate. I am just curious if anyone has any recommended reading for researching vaccines. I am most of the way through Dr. Sear's The Vaccine Book, but I would like to get some more information so that I can have a reasonable, educated conversation about this with my pediatrician. TIA!

PS Should I XP on Attachment Parenting?? I'm not really an AP parent, but I wonder if this is something a lot of mama's there have researched.

KatFCo · February 2013

The CDC has good information.

Readyforbaby77 · February 2013

AP and no vax do not go handinhand. You can ask them, but don't expect an overwhelming number to agree with it. It's actually opposite.

unaveragejane · February 2013

I'm not saying we want to go without vaccines; I just want to be as educated about them as I can.

vettymama · February 2013

Anything from the CDC. When I worked in vaccine formulation research they were our go to for everything.

KatFCo · February 2013

amy052006:
KatFCo:
The CDC has good information.
LOL. You probably didn't mean to be snarky, but I read it that way and liked it.

Okay, I admit, I intended it to be half-snarky. Seriously, though, the CDC has good information on vaccines.

bridein08 · February 2013

NandaB:
I would talk to someone who IS actually educated about childhood diseases and vaccines, like my kids pedi.

This. The Dr. Sears book actually doesn't have any evidence based medicine in it. It's quackery, and if that makes you FEEL better, then do it. The fact is, many times more mistakes happen while trying to attempt an "alternative" vaccine schedule than if you stick to what your doc prescribes.

Mrs JillB · February 2013

Here's some research for you:

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/123/1/e164.full

sorry, not clicky because I'm on my iPad.

Andrewsgal · February 2013

bridein08:
NandaB:
I would talk to someone who IS actually educated about childhood diseases and vaccines, like my kids pedi.
 
This. The Dr. Sears book actually doesn't have any evidence based medicine in it. It's quackery, and if that makes you FEEL better, then do it. The fact is, many times more mistakes happen while trying to attempt an "alternative" vaccine schedule than if you stick to what your doc prescribes.  

but toy do realize Dr sears is a ped right? So in one quote peds are God and in another don't listen to this one. I am so over the whole
Drs know everything mindset on the bump. I have four friends that are doctors and even they think this notion is laughable.

AliciaS1411 · February 2013

NandaB:
I would talk to someone who IS actually educated about childhood diseases and vaccines, like my kids pedi.

Andrewsgal · February 2013

LalaMama81:
bananabelle:
Please drop your Dr. Sears book right now. Yes, he IS a pediatrician, but he is not schooled in epidemiology or infectious diseases and he's just making sh!t up. You should go to the AAP website, the CDC website, or read any book by Dr. Paul Offit, who is a vaccine expert.
Ok, you kept saying the same thing and you sound like a broken record. I would like to know specifically what dr. Sears has made up. I'm not saying his book is the end all to be all, but no ones book is. There is no truly unbiased information. Re: dr. Offit, after a cursory search it seems like he has his fair share of detractors. Also, even of he is an epidemiological expert, he also is the co inventor of a vaccine and cannot possibly be unbiased.

But but Dr. Offit, you mean the same one that got a HUGE check from the vaccine company Merek? Surely there has to be a different Paul Offit.

Andrewsgal · February 2013

bananabelle:
LalaMama81:
bananabelle:
Please drop your Dr. Sears book right now. Yes, he IS a pediatrician, but he is not schooled in epidemiology or infectious diseases and he's just making sh!t up. You should go to the AAP website, the CDC website, or read any book by Dr. Paul Offit, who is a vaccine expert.
Ok, you kept saying the same thing and you sound like a broken record. I would like to know specifically what dr. Sears has made up. I'm not saying his book is the end all to be all, but no ones book is. There is no truly unbiased information. Re: dr. Offit, after a cursory search it seems like he has his fair share of detractors. Also, even of he is an epidemiological expert, he also is the co inventor of a vaccine and cannot possibly be unbiased.
I realize I am saying the same thing, but how many of you have actually gone out and picked up a copy of his book? Maybe someday someone will listen.
And here's a good article from the American Academy of Pediatrics about the problems with Dr. Sears' book. https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/123/1/e164.full It takes down pretty much everything he says, point by point. Feel free to read it. And I'll leave it at that.

You don't get it. Saying sears is biased then saying go read Offit is ridiculous, there is bias on both sides and hypocrisy in this post.

Andrewsgal · February 2013

bananabelle:
Tangerine01:
You will mostly only find books that are written by someone of one opinion or the other, so I would suggest reading material from both sides if you are truly curious in learning all aspects of the argument.
I think it is great that you want to be informed rather than just letting your doctor tell you what to do.
While Dr. Sears may not be "schooled in epidemiology or infectious diseases", neither is your pediatrician - so do your own research and come to the appointment with your own opinion.
Your pediatrician may not be a vaccine expert, but the AAP (the American Academy of Pediatrics) is a panel of experts. A good pediatrician will follow the guidelines set by the AAP and the CDC (of course taking into consideration your child's individual needs). Regular people have not gone to med school and their "research" consists of google searches. Yes, do some research, but please be leery of your sources.

Yes be leery of all sources even so so called experts.

Andrewsgal · February 2013

bananabelle:
Andrewsgal:
bananabelle:
Tangerine01:
You will mostly only find books that are written by someone of one opinion or the other, so I would suggest reading material from both sides if you are truly curious in learning all aspects of the argument.
I think it is great that you want to be informed rather than just letting your doctor tell you what to do.
While Dr. Sears may not be "schooled in epidemiology or infectious diseases", neither is your pediatrician - so do your own research and come to the appointment with your own opinion.
Your pediatrician may not be a vaccine expert, but the AAP (the American Academy of Pediatrics) is a panel of experts. A good pediatrician will follow the guidelines set by the AAP and the CDC (of course taking into consideration your child's individual needs). Regular people have not gone to med school and their "research" consists of google searches. Yes, do some research, but please be leery of your sources.
Yes be leery of all sources even so so called experts.
Yes, only trust "experts" who agree with what you have already decided to be true from your google searching.

Um no read all the research on both sides and make your own decision. You will notice I did not come on here screaming read Dr Sears because I know full well he is biased in this topic and not an expert. However you did come on this post as well as the one yesterday touting Dr. Offit again and again, you have to realize he has a major conflict of interest with in turn come with bias.

Andrewsgal · February 2013

bananabelle:
Andrewsgal:
bananabelle:
LalaMama81:
bananabelle:
Please drop your Dr. Sears book right now. Yes, he IS a pediatrician, but he is not schooled in epidemiology or infectious diseases and he's just making sh!t up. You should go to the AAP website, the CDC website, or read any book by Dr. Paul Offit, who is a vaccine expert.
Ok, you kept saying the same thing and you sound like a broken record. I would like to know specifically what dr. Sears has made up. I'm not saying his book is the end all to be all, but no ones book is. There is no truly unbiased information. Re: dr. Offit, after a cursory search it seems like he has his fair share of detractors. Also, even of he is an epidemiological expert, he also is the co inventor of a vaccine and cannot possibly be unbiased.
I realize I am saying the same thing, but how many of you have actually gone out and picked up a copy of his book? Maybe someday someone will listen.
And here's a good article from the American Academy of Pediatrics about the problems with Dr. Sears' book. https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/123/1/e164.full It takes down pretty much everything he says, point by point. Feel free to read it. And I'll leave it at that.

You don't get it. Saying sears is biased then saying go read Offit is ridiculous, there is bias on both sides and hypocrisy in this post.
No, I never said Sears was biased. I said he's an idiot who knows nothing about vaccines and just made sh!t up to appease scared parents. Offit is chief of infectious diseases in a PA hospital and head of vaccine education, has created a vaccine, and knows a ton. You can decide for yourself whether he's biased or not after you read his book! You're creating false equivalencies. One is an expert, and one is an idiot. I'm saying read some actual science instead of the bologna that Dr. Sears made up.

So we should read his book and totally ignore the fact that he is paid by the people who make the vaccine? No one will bite the hand that feeds them, you have to realize that.

RachelTice · February 2013

Someone's crazy is showing!

Andrewsgal · February 2013

amy052006:
bananabelle:
Andrewsgal:
bananabelle:
Andrewsgal:
bananabelle:
Tangerine01:
You will mostly only find books that are written by someone of one opinion or the other, so I would suggest reading material from both sides if you are truly curious in learning all aspects of the argument.
I think it is great that you want to be informed rather than just letting your doctor tell you what to do.
While Dr. Sears may not be "schooled in epidemiology or infectious diseases", neither is your pediatrician - so do your own research and come to the appointment with your own opinion.
Your pediatrician may not be a vaccine expert, but the AAP (the American Academy of Pediatrics) is a panel of experts. A good pediatrician will follow the guidelines set by the AAP and the CDC (of course taking into consideration your child's individual needs). Regular people have not gone to med school and their "research" consists of google searches. Yes, do some research, but please be leery of your sources.
Yes be leery of all sources even so so called experts.
Yes, only trust "experts" who agree with what you have already decided to be true from your google searching.
Um no read all the research on both sides and make your own decision. You will notice I did not come on here screaming read Dr Sears because I know full well he is biased in this topic and not an expert. However you did come on this post as well as the one yesterday touting Dr. Offit again and again, you have to realize he has a major conflict of interest with in turn come with bias.
The thing you don't realize is that there AREN'T 2 sides. There is good science, and there's bad science. Dr. Offit = good science. Dr. Sears = not science. Dr. Offit actually doesn't have a conflict of interest, either. Yes, he INVENTED the rotavirus vaccine (to me that makes him an expert). But he is no longer profiting from the patent. And I think the money from Merck was an endowed chair at his university, so that's not really the same thing. I'm not sure why you're so intent on defending Dr. Sears, or what your motivation is.
If you think that having an endowed chair means he isn't profiting, I have ocean front property in Arizona with your name on it. And I'm a vaxer.

LoL.

1. He did profit from the patent, at the same time he was screaming vaccines save lives, because well they do, and he was making money from them!

2. I really can't even argue with someone who thinks he is not profiting but yet has an endowed chair, I just can't.

3. Why can't you just admit that the one and only source you use to form your opinions is a biased source? This is why it is very very important to use more than one source and do your own research, and no just because you think as delayed vaxers we are dumb it is not google.

Andrewsgal · February 2013

Yes he knows a lot, but he is not going to be an inventor of vaccines and say, but you don't need them. Yes he is educated and smart, but he is a very very for profit biased source. He is paid by vaccine companies, so of course he is going to be pro vaccine, how can you not see this?

Andrewsgal · February 2013

bananabelle:
amy052006:
The very premise of holding an endowed chair is that you are not held to the same income generating standards as other faculty. Your research doesn't need to generate income. It's why endowed chairs are important -- some of the most important science doesn't turn an immediate profit (or ever for that matter).
So Offit can spend his days working on the next million dollar idea because someone is paying (at least part of) his way.
Not to mention, a named chair gives you mad cred which absolutely translates to dollars.
Yes. This exactly.

Wait we read this differently. She is basically saying yes he is paid by vaccine manufactures and it gives him even more freedom to earn more money. Once again why would you bite the hand that feeds you, oh you don't.

Andrewsgal · February 2013

amy052006:
bananabelle:
amy052006:
The very premise of holding an endowed chair is that you are not held to the same income generating standards as other faculty. Your research doesn't need to generate income. It's why endowed chairs are important -- some of the most important science doesn't turn an immediate profit (or ever for that matter).
So Offit can spend his days working on the next million dollar idea because someone is paying (at least part of) his way.
Not to mention, a named chair gives you mad cred which absolutely translates to dollars.
Yes. This exactly.
Yeah, but that is profiting. He is profiting from a drug company. Not to mention what it means for him in salary at CHOP. It is in their best interest to keep a major donor, in this case Merck, engaged. So they invest in him.

Profiting from the same drug company that profits from his pro vaccine stance. I scratch your back you scratch mine. Do you get it now?

Andrewsgal · February 2013

bananabelle:
Andrewsgal:
Yes he knows a lot, but he is not going to be an inventor of vaccines and say, but you don't need them. Yes he is educated and smart, but he is a very very for profit biased source. He is paid by vaccine companies, so of course he is going to be pro vaccine, how can you not see this?
I'm not sure we're even talking about the same thing anymore. Obviously he is pro-vaccine. Obviously he has also made money off of vaccines. One is not necessarily the cause of the other, and does not detract from his expertise. How can YOU not see this? Why are you demonizing his research just because he has made money?

I quit you win. I totally think believing in and getting all your information for any scientific decision from someone who is paid to believe the way he does is perfect! WTG Dr. Offit is awesome.

Andrewsgal · February 2013

amy052006:
I think both sides are kind of nuts if they don't think any of their experts don't have a financial horse in this race.
It's almost as if we should have a purely non for profit driven health system.

That is the point. And see my whole thing about people blindly trusting drs. Everyone in the medical field is in it for profit. I get that. To sit there and say either side is not influenced by money is silly. You can scream but science all day long, but to totally discount that money plays into people's opinions or stances on certain things is ridiculous.

Andrewsgal · February 2013

bananabelle:
Andrewsgal:
bananabelle:
Andrewsgal:
Yes he knows a lot, but he is not going to be an inventor of vaccines and say, but you don't need them. Yes he is educated and smart, but he is a very very for profit biased source. He is paid by vaccine companies, so of course he is going to be pro vaccine, how can you not see this?
I'm not sure we're even talking about the same thing anymore. Obviously he is pro-vaccine. Obviously he has also made money off of vaccines. One is not necessarily the cause of the other, and does not detract from his expertise. How can YOU not see this? Why are you demonizing his research just because he has made money?
I quit you win. I totally think believing in and getting all your information for any scientific decision from someone who is paid to believe the way he does is perfect! WTG Dr. Offit is awesome.
Who, pray tell, ISN'T paid for their work? I'm completely baffled by your entire argument and I'm not sure why I even keep coming back to this thread. It's gone totally off track, sorry OP.
Where does one find a scientific expert who hasn't been paid by someone in their field? Someone who hasn't worked for the CDC, or the WHO, or a major pharmaceutical company. Oh, nowhere, because then they wouldn't be an expert. They would just be a random person with no credentials. I like to get my medical information from people like Jenny McCarthy because she is unbiased and has never held a chair endowed by Merck.

Please tell me you are kidding. Of course everyone is paid to work. For example I am a teacher and behavior therapist. It would be unethical for an OT to pay me to recommend her to my clients. As a teacher it would be unethical for Sylvan learning center to pay me to endorse their center. It would likewise be unethical for some type of experimental therapy to pay me to endorse them to my clients. See how that works. I am paid by the people I serve. Not the outside interests of those people.

Andrewsgal · February 2013

amy052006:
Andrewsgal:
amy052006:
I think both sides are kind of nuts if they don't think any of their experts don't have a financial horse in this race.
It's almost as if we should have a purely non for profit driven health system.
That is the point. And see my whole thing about people blindly trusting drs. Everyone in the medical field is in it for profit. I get that. To sit there and say either side is not influenced by money is silly. You can scream but science all day long, but to totally discount that money plays into people's opinions or stances on certain things is ridiculous.
The only thing I will say is, if there were actual, legit, scientific reasons that supporter a delayed schedule being the best fit for a child -- someone would have made a shitton of money on it already.
And that really vaccines are not the money making power house for pharma people claim.
And like I said, I think it is equally ridic to argue that Offit is sitting around inventing unnecessary vaccines to get rich.

Made money how, by writing a book. Sadly he did. Dr sears who I also agree is a joke in this whole conversation.

I am very interested in the amount of money vaccines bring to particular pharm companies, and will be looking for valid research on this. I will be shocked to find out if it is not a lot.

I also never said that Offit is sitting around making up vaccines to get rich.

jetskreemr · February 2013

The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia has an excellent section on vaccine safety:

https://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/

Andrewsgal · February 2013

Well we agree to disagree then. Except on the Jenny thing she s as dumb asthey come.

Andrewsgal · February 2013

bananabelle:
Andrewsgal:
Well we agree to disagree then. Except on the Jenny thing she s as dumb asthey come.
Ok, I can live with that. As long as we agree on the important stuff

Oh and can we please agree on Dr Wakefield being a total quack too. He is the one that started this whole autism/vaccines thing.

Merried_2008 · February 2013

Readyforbaby77:
AP and no vax do not go handinhand. You can ask them, but don't expect an overwhelming number to agree with it. It's actually opposite.

This. It actually gets very heated over there regarding vax. Most are very pro vaccination

tantdylf · February 2013

KatFCo:
The CDC has good information.

I never understand why people forget this resource. Read the ingredients listed by the CDC and research them individually! Derrrr

Want a personalized experience?

Researching Vaccines

Re: Researching Vaccines

Choose Another Board

Search Boards