2nd opinion is over

Kaselleck · February 2013

So... I don't know how I feel. She mentioned using a surrogate if this new protocol still has my lining poop out on me and transfer is unsuccessful. She said my frozen embies are just ok when my first doc said they are great. They are 4AB and 4BA, six day blasts. She said six day aren't as good as five day... I wasn't even concerned about the embryos before. She said at this point she would transfer 2 no matter what my lining is. She is also suspicious that my lining is naturally on the thin side and probably was with my previous pregnancies. Sorry I'm long winded, but to sum up, she said this could work, but didn't seem optimistic. I don't know what to think. I have five frozen embryos so I guess if I do it twice and it doesn't work, I'm officially out. My husband won't do surrogacy and we agreed to not go there.

Thoughts? I'm not sure what my point is... Just frustrated I guess. I'm 29 and in good health. Why does my uterus have to be such a biotch??

jeannaqueena · February 2013

I am sorry it wasn't better news, I hate that she has you stressing. Did she say if there was anything you can do to improve your lining?

GL

Kaselleck · February 2013

She agreed with the protocol I'm starting in a couple weeks. So I'm crossing my fingers and my uterus. I really hope it works.

Crystal120410 · February 2013

::Butting in from IF::

I just happened to see your post and thought maybe I could help. If my post isnt welcomed I'll go away, no worries. I have the same problem of crappy lining. I actually bleed it out before I can build a good one. Are you trying to do fresh cycles or FET? I will throw this out there and take it for what you want. Viagra suppositories is supposed to have pretty good results. There is a experimental thing called neupogen. Its used as a uterine wash, its supposed to promote tissue growth. A dr in NYC has had very good results with it and we are trying it this go round. If your into it I have been taking pomegrante supps and wheat germ supps also. They are both supposed to help with lining issues. I hope this helps and if I can help in any way please dont hesitate to ask.

Kaselleck · February 2013

I saw your post about that. I'm going to email my dr about the neupogen. I am doing FET attempt 4. I am on Viagra this time and some other drugs to gel dilate blood vessels to increase blood flow. I'm drinking red raspberry leaf tea which is actually pretty good. I saw your post that wheat germ is gross when I butted in your posts on IF last week.

Thanks for the info. Do you mind if I ask what exactly the neupogen entails? And how much it costs? I'm willing to try anything. I would do somersaults naked in a parking lot if there was an offchance it would help!

Crystal120410 · February 2013

Sounds like we are both about in the same boat. This time he also has me on low dose Bravelle. Some RE's believe that the only way to build a lining is to stimulate the ovaries to make natural estrogen. So im trying the Bravelle, neupogen and he is also talking about maybe a HCG shot. Neupogen is a drug they use in cancer treatment for bone marrow transplants. It promotes white cell growth. In cancer treatments they use it IV or IM with IF its a uterine wash. Basically they put a catheter up your tootoot and slowly push in the fluid. You lay there for 30 min or so and in 48 hours your supposed to have a draamatic change in your lining. I think it has to be done on certain cycle days and twice. I havent done it yet but there is a study online from the dr in nyc with 4 women and all 4 it helped their lining and all 4 got pregnant. One was ectopic but she still got pregnant and had a good lining. Your insurance might cover it but mine doesnt cover anything experimental. My RE has said about $200, each one I'm assuming. He did tell me yesterday that its not to expensive. What's a couple hundred more when you've spent 35K right? I'm just like you that I would slap myself in the face with a porcupine twice a day if it would get me pregnant. I think you saw someone elses post about the wheat germ being gross. I take it in a gel pill form and dont taste anything. I think you can get it in a powder form to make a drink but I dont do well with stuff that tastes gross, I vomit. Thats why Im taking pomegranate pills. I drank two glasses a couple weeks ago and thought for 5 hours I was going to spew. I am also attempting FET #4, first 3 cancelled. I bleed about 10 days in on meds. The viagra is supposed to work but it didnt for me or the other two ladies who were doing it last cycle. I hope it works for you, its expensive and a pain in the butt! If I can help in any other way please let me know.

Kaselleck · February 2013

Thanks for the info. My doctor said he is willing to look into the neupogen. Will you send me the link to the study you found? What cycle days do you do it?

Also how much wheat germ and pomegranate pills do you take a day? My doctor said it can't hurt. I figured I'll try that too? Did you get them at whole foods?

I did try a stimulated cycle last night. My lining still crapped out and my estrogen was so high I had to cancel again

Crystal120410 · February 2013

https://www.posters2view.com/eshre2011/data/259.pdf

took me forever to find it. Dr braverman uses it and chr is doing two clinical trials on it right now. I'm not sure on the days, I haven't done it yet. I think it's a few days before transfer and 48 hrs apart between the first and second wash. I see posts if women using it with the Viagra.

Im really hoping the stims work for me since I didn't have this problem with my fresh IVF cycle.

i bought the Pom at Walmart, 2 1xday and the wheat germ 2 2xday. The Pom was $8 and the wg $13 at gnc.

Kaselleck · February 2013

Thanks!! Please keep me posted. I hope this works for you. I'll pm you if my doc says anything worth sharing about it.

Crystal120410 · February 2013

I just read its cd8 and cd10. Dr braverman believes the neupogen and Viagra compliment each other so you might ask about doing them together, I'm going to. Might ask about a hcg injection also, he's doing one this time on me. I hope this works for us! Ditto, keep me posted.

Crystal120410 · February 2013

What part of the country you in?

DahliaFlower · February 2013

I don't have experience with treating a lining issue, but... I do have a friend who had really significant lining problem, which improved w/ steroid therapy. She was able to finally carry an IVF preg.

Also, I just wanted to say that I had consult w/ Dr. Braverman for some autoimmune issues. I think he is very good, very well informed. He is innovative without being unrealistic. He was very accessible and responsive to my questions and concerns.

I do think you have options besides a surrogate..

Good luck!

Kaselleck · February 2013

My RE will put HCG in my uterus at the transfer (if I ever get there) to help my chances. I don't know about an HCG shot- when would you take it. I'm not stimming so there are no eggs to release...

Kaselleck · February 2013

I'm in Chicago- Northwest Suburbs.

Kaselleck · February 2013

My RE emailed me back about the neupogen. He's willing to look into it but seems skeptical. I emailed him the study you sent me and another I found online as well.

He said there are no studies about wheat germ or pomegrante sups but said they can't hurt, so i'm going to get them today and start. I hope he can figure something out befor my cycle starts. I'm suppressing now, so my baseline is 3/8 with a drug start day of 3/10.

Kaselleck · February 2013

Do you know why steroid therapy? and what steroid she took? Thanks!

Crystal120410 · February 2013

Kaselleck:
My RE emailed me back about the neupogen. He's willing to look into it but seems skeptical. I emailed him the study you sent me and another I found online as well.
He said there are no studies about wheat germ or pomegrante sups but said they can't hurt, so i'm going to get them today and start. I hope he can figure something out befor my cycle starts. I'm suppressing now, so my baseline is 3/8 with a drug start day of 3/10.

Dr. braverman and HCR have been using it for a while and it seems that they have good results with it.

My nurse told me she hs seen a couple cases where the pom juice helped lining. i tild my RE that I was taking wheat germ and he said, "I like wheat germ". That was alll I got but I figure it cant hurt. I think you just have to quit taking it at transfer. Im going to ask about using the viagra with the neupogen also. I figure for one it cant hurt and two I spent $500 on those dang things. I want to use them. You've got a couple weeks to throw around ideas. If I make it I will do a transfer on 3/11. Also the same week as my SIL wedding that Im the MOH in. Indifferent

Crystal120410 · February 2013

What stims did you use last cycle, days, doses?

Kaselleck · February 2013

I did menopur 75 but switched to 150 on day4 of stims and follistim did 37 but switch to 75. I triggered on day 15 I think. I did a Lupron trigger bc they were afraid I'd overstim. My estrogen was almost 9,000, which was part of the reason I was cancelled. My body wasn't absorbing the hormones.

Crystal120410 · February 2013

Wow, Im doing 225 of bravelle. Thats a big difference. How did you do on IVF, did you absorb the hormones then? I assume you had to do decently well since you have frosties.

Kaselleck · February 2013

I did, but that was 4.5 years ago when I was 25. I had 13 eggs, 7 embryos. Used 2 and froze 5. My lining was also an AMAZING 11mm. I did IVF the first time because I have PCOS. My PCOS has nothing to do with why I can't conceive now. I have a son from that IVF cycle. My frosties are day 6 blasts, which my 2nd opinion doctor wasn't thrilled about tho. I had no idea my embryos were even close to "ok". I thought they were great, but I'm not going to do a fresh cycle again- my current RE sees no need to.

225 of bravelle is a good dosage to start. You can always add to it if you're not responding as you hoped. My doctor has the "quality not quantity" approach as well so I started on low doses. He never wanted me to produce too many eggs because he felt it couple jeopardize my quality, but I know not everyone agrees with this. I think starting with a low dose is good because you don't want to get OHSS- I did 4 years ago, and it was awful.

My lining didn't respond to the stims this time, and they think it's from c-section scar tissue. My blood vessels are damaged, and I don't have enough blood flow to make my uterus a nice home. Yay me.

On a side note, I just want to tell you I really hope this protocol is your answer. I see you're so young- I went throughout IVF the first time young too, and I wanted to punch every person who told me "you're so young, just be patient, it will happen" Hang in there. You're in my prayers every day. Don't give up.

DahliaFlower · February 2013

Kaselleck:
Do you know why steroid therapy? and what steroid she took? Thanks!

She was on Prednisone, low dose (maybe 5 mg a day) for a number of months.

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