WWYD?

guilletskichuk · February 2013

BM hasn't talked to the SKs since we picked them up from her after Christmas holidays on December 29th. It has been almost 6 weeks since she has spoken to them! I can't believe she can go that long without talking to them!

SS11 and SD7 have been living with us for the last 7 months but lived with BM before that. When they were living with BM, DH and I would talk to the kids about once a week...sometimes once every two weeks. Because BM was so hard to get in touch with (either her cell phone was out of minutes, her home phone was cut off, her internet was cut off etc), we didn't get to talk to SKs as much as we wanted to. Also, BM had 7 kids in her household and no routine so, even though we would try to set up scheduled times to talk to the kids, they rarely worked out. Still, we tried our best and talked to the kids regularly. Even though we live 10 hours away in a different province, DH made sure his cell phone number was local to them so that they never had to make long distance calls to talk to him.

A year ago, DH filed for full custody of the children. A parenting agreement was put in place that stated both BM and DH were to make contact with each other three times a week so that DH could talk to the kids. Again, since there had always been difficulties doing this, DH kept up his end of the deal by trying to contact BM via phone or email, but she usually wasn't available. At least he tried.

The court gave us the children for the summer and the parenting agreement stayed the same where contact was concerned. BM did not attempt to contact SKs often at all. Because of some issues that were brought up over the summer regarding life with BM, we were given an extended temporary full-time custody of SKs. The parenting agreement has remained the same. BM is supposed to contact SKs three times a week and, if she's not able to get in touch over the phone, she is supposed to leave a loving message for the kids via voicemail. Once the kids started living with us, DH changed his phone number to a local number (to us) in order to reduce cell phone costs. If BM wants to call, she can call long distance as that is what we have been doing for years. DH's phone has never been cut off. Our internet is always working. She can call or email at any time with no problems. But hasn't.

DH got in touch with BM a few weeks ago via email in order to set up a time to meet up with her. The parenting agreement states that we are supposed to meet her almost half-way (it's more like 60/40 in her favour) on the first or second weekend of the month in order for BM to get a weekend with SKs. We realized that the kids get a week-long break a week after we are supposed to meet her (would have been this weekend) so DH offered to meet with her a week later than originally planned so that she could get a whole week with SKs. She was in agreement with this so we are going to meet up for the exchange on Feb. 16th. Aside from that email correspondence, BM hasn't been in touch with DH at all. I realize that DH could try contacting BM so the SKs can talk to her...but they haven't asked to call her at all. They know they can call anytime...but they haven't expressed any interest in doing so. So DH hasn't made the effort for them either.

I haven't pressed DH to make contact with her, although it would be the mature thing to do, I guess. I just keep thinking that if she wants these kids as much as she says she does (well, long story short...SS is not her bio-son and she's no longer trying to get him back), you would think she would try to get in touch with them! She never ever made an effort to get in touch with us when SKs lived with her unless the kids asked her to call. So we're just doing the same thing. Is that bad?

Part of the reason I haven't urged DH to make contact with her is because I want to see just how long she goes without contact. I feel her lack of contact will add to our case that she is not the right person to be parenting SKs. She's incredibly unstable, inconsistent, and unreliable. She is proving this by not contacting the SKs.

But do you think that by letting this happen, we are doing it to the detriment of the kids? SD has been acting a bit funny lately (just not quite herself and she's had a bit of attitude toward her brother). We're wondering if it has something to do with not having spoken to her mom in over a month. We've noticed these behaviours once before in the fall when there was a lapse in contact between them. However, if SD mentioned that she wanted to talk to her mom, we would call right away. But she hasn't.

Sorry for the looong explanation. I'm not sure what I'm looking for. I guess I'm just wondering what you would do? Contact BM or wait for her to contact SKs on her own? She'll be seeing them in a week provided her plans to meet up with us go through (almost didn't happen during the Christmas holidays).

ldmessing · February 2013

It is not your job to nurture that relationship, as long as your husband doesn't keep her from talking to the kids, he is not in violation of the court order.

sounds to me like the children are fine with the status quo

lookame3639 · February 2013

I see your having issues with SD, sit down with her and talk to her. See whatis wrong and if she mentions shes out of sorts by not talking to BM then have her call and try to get ahold of BM. Otherwise its not your responsibility to nuture a relationship when its not reciprocated by BM. If you are worried then you can always ask BM via email whats up with the communication lag and perhaps let her know the children would like to speak with her if possible. This helps when it cones to court because theyll often award custody to the parent which nurtures a relationship with the other parent.

xmaryrickx · February 2013

ldmessing:
It is not your job to nurture that relationship, as long as your husband doesn't keep her from talking to the kids, he is not in violation of the court order.sounds to me like the children are fine with the status quonbsp;

I disagree with this. Unless talking to BM is harmful for the children doubt it since you offered to let her keep them for a week you should work to foster this relationship. If kids are left up to their own devises they will wallow in their own filth and eat candy all day. They need to be guided to make the right choices. BM doesn't sound mentally healthy, but she is still their mother. They could go two waysthey could be angry at her for abandoning them OR they could be angry at you and your H for keeping them from them. Now I know that you aren't keeping them from her but perception is reality. You never asked to talk to your mother vs we always made sure you called her every Monday Wednesday Friday and Sundaywhich sounds better? Which is less likely to get a resentful angry reaction?

Littlejen22 · February 2013

You are not encouraging him to foster their relationship because you want to see how long she will go? Do you hear how that sounds? It sounds like you are willing to hurt the kids to prove she is a bad Mom. Be mature and help the relationship, if your DH is nervous to push BM then have him text her or email her so there is record and ask her to call the kids.

SimpleJane · February 2013

This might be unpopular but I would leave it up to her to make contact. You are trying to get custody and her lack of desire to be involved will only make her look worse.

Ilumine · February 2013

SimpleJane:
This might be unpopular but I would leave it up to her to make contact. You are trying to get custody and her lack of desire to be involved will only make her look worse.

Actually it looks worse this way. At the very least, the BF needs to contact the BM to ensure that nothing has happened to her. The reality is, it always looks better when you actually focus on what is best for the children, not what makes another adult look bad. Not to mention, no judge is going to give custody to a bioparent because the other bioparent had to initiate communication, "I give BM custody becuase the BF bothered her 3x a week when he called to have the kids talk to her".

2chatter · February 2013

I have a flaky exh. I know what trying to have a relationship with him is like. It sucks and I am a grown up. As a result, I initate nightly calls and encourage the girls to speak with him or leave a message for him when he fails to answer. I hated the way they felt abandoned before we switched to us calling him - he would say he would call every night between 7-8 and never did. It's helped the girls deal. There is a fine line with them not being responsible for him/trying to take care of him in other ways - so I have spun it to them that this way we can work it around showers/homework/reading/activities.

I would say have them call, set a schedule for it. If she never ever answers, that's a different issue.

new+tothis · February 2013

Another vote for calling.

At least in my state, the ability of each parent to foster a relationship with the other parent IS considered in custody arguments. The fact that I practically beg my DS bio-dad to call him and when he doesn't I call him in hopes he will answer just looks better upon me. As long as there isn't violence, abuse, or anything emotionally harmful going on then she's their mother and you need to encourage them to keep a relationship.

guilletskichuk · February 2013

2chatter:
I have a flaky exh. I know what trying to have a relationship with him is like. It sucks and I am a grown up. As a result, I initate nightly calls and encourage the girls to speak with him or leave a message for him when he fails to answer. I hated the way they felt abandoned before we switched to us calling him - he would say he would call every night between 7-8 and never did. It's helped the girls deal. There is a fine line with them not being responsible for him/trying to take care of him in other ways - so I have spun it to them that this way we can work it around showers/homework/reading/activities.

I would say have them call, set a schedule for it. If she never ever answers, that's a different issue.

This is part of the problem though. We have had such a difficult time getting in touch with her in the past that it would always be a let-down for the kids when we couldn't get in touch with her.

By no means do I want to keep the kids from their mom. Over the last 6 years I have always tried to foster a nurturing relationship between us and them and her and them. But I'm starting to feel that it is more harmful for her to have contact with them than not. In December, SD started acting up at school one day. She has a tendency to clam up and be defiant if she is being bothered by something (or when she thinks she's in trouble, among other things). DH went into the school to see what was wrong. SD burst into tears and said that her mom didn't want to talk to her or see her anymore. This was a result of BM making broken promises to send things in the mail and make visits that she didn't carry through with. AND, this was during a time when we were making attempts to call BM weekly...so it's not that we were withholding SKs from BM.

When SKs lived with BM, DH and I never made promises about anything because we never had the assurance that things would work out the way we wanted them to (because of BM's inconsistency)...however BM has no problem making promises...and then breaking them. I guess that's why I haven't had too much trouble not encouraging DH to contact BM. It's almost like if she is out of sight, she is out of mind. SD hasn't shown signs of disappointment because she hasn't had someone promising her things that she doesn't carry through with. We HAVE asked her if anything is bothering her etc. and she says nothing is. Of course, this is a 7 year old who may be bottling things up...BUT...she also has friendship issues at school and acts out often because she is just not socialized well. She is currently seeing a counsellor and is in a socialization group at school to help with that. So that could be where some of this attitude etc. is coming from.

ldmessing · February 2013

your husband, not you should be doing this. and if it were me, I would just send her an email or text, that says the kids want to talk to you. then leave it at that.

paper trail established

2chatter · February 2013

What does the counselor say?

When exh gets flaky about answering I dial from another room. If he answers I get the girls, if not I don't. Paper trail of contact established, girls do not know their dad flaked.

I hear you on the broken promises. I have had to really step back and realize that sheltering the girls from who their Dad is does not benefit them. He too promises them all sorts of crazy things. They do get disappointed. But their relationship with him is theirs to own. I am careful to emphasize that we will always have our home, they will always have clothes here, we will take vacations and do fun things, their life here is stable. Their Dad is not but there is no need for me to say that. I cannot fix that; I did the best I could by divorcing him and getting custody. I am there for them to talk with - DD feels the situation out. Most recently..."Daddy said we will be going overseas for a month this summer. Do you think it will really happen?" I asked her what she thought and listened, then told her it's not her job to worry about it. Focus on what she's doing this summer that she knows about, and see what happens with her Dad.

I think the longer your SD is with you the easier it will be to get her to focus on the things she can control, the things that are reliable.

guilletskichuk · February 2013

2chatter:
What does the counselor say?

When exh gets flaky about answering I dial from another room. If he answers I get the girls, if not I don't. Paper trail of contact established, girls do not know their dad flaked.

I hear you on the broken promises. I have had to really step back and realize that sheltering the girls from who their Dad is does not benefit them. He too promises them all sorts of crazy things. They do get disappointed. But their relationship with him is theirs to own. I am careful to emphasize that we will always have our home, they will always have clothes here, we will take vacations and do fun things, their life here is stable. Their Dad is not but there is no need for me to say that. I cannot fix that; I did the best I could by divorcing him and getting custody. I am there for them to talk with - DD feels the situation out. Most recently..."Daddy said we will be going overseas for a month this summer. Do you think it will really happen?" I asked her what she thought and listened, then told her it's not her job to worry about it. Focus on what she's doing this summer that she knows about, and see what happens with her Dad.

I think the longer your SD is with you the easier it will be to get her to focus on the things she can control, the things that are reliable.

The counsellor is actually a school counsellor that both SKs see. I have a good relationship with her as I teach at one of the schools in which she works. However, our conversations are focused more on the behaviours of SKs at school than anything else. SS has been seeing a counsellor from an outside source as well for the last month and a bit but DH and I haven't met her yet (she comes into the school). We're thinking of having SD see her too but the school counsellor doesn't think it's necessary.

I really appreciate you sharing your own experience, 2chatter. We do the same thing with BM. We don't bad-talk her. We just do what we do and focus on our lives here. The kids notice how different life is with us though. They used to tell us the differences all the time within the first few months that they were living with us. Now I think they accept this as the norm. Both of them have acted out over the last 7 months and that was to be expected. Their behaviours have improved greatly the longer they've been with us though.

SKs will be talking to their lawyer when they go for their visit with BM in a week (because court is taking place 10 hours away where BM lives and that's where their court-appointed lawyer is). SKs know that they will be able to talk to the lawyer and express their wishes about where they want to live. Since SS is 11 (and BM isn't actually his bio-mom, she was his guardian for many years), he has a bit more say about where he wants to be. He has recognized that our situation is a better one for him and he has told us so. He and BM have decided that he is going to stay living with us but it still needs to be settled in court. Because he is older and more mature, he is able to see the big picture. SS is still so young. I think she is confused. She is so impressionable and is easily manipulated by the stunts her mom pulls when she visits. She recognizes that most aspects of our home-life are better than what she experienced at her mom's...but, still, she's apart from her mom and I think that affects her a lot. This is what makes it hard for DH and I. We believe that we are the better place for SD to be in so many ways, but maybe not psychologically.

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