Chicken pox Vaccine

Jasmineeelizabeth · February 2013

I've been researching the chicken pox vaccine lately and I'm really not sure what to do.

When you get chicken pox as a child it's usually very mild and you have full immunity for the rest of their life. However if you vaccinate and don't keep up on your boosters through out your entire life your at risk to developing it as an adult and it is a lot more dangerous and can cause swelling in your brain and other scary side effects.When I got tested for my immunities when I was pregnant many of them were ineffective and I had no idea or no plan to get boosters.

I'm not anti vaccination, my child will be vaccinated for everything else.. But I'm not sure about this one. Thoughts?

sschwege · February 2013

I understand the argument, but my question is, how do you ensure your child gets it as a child? I mean we all got it because the vaccine did not exist, so you went to school, got the chicken pox and were done with it. If most kids are vaccinated, what are the chances your child will get the natural immunity?

Plus isn't Shingles the result of having gotten the chicken pox? I don't know much about this though, so maybe someone else will weigh in...

Jasmineeelizabeth · February 2013

Actually it's the vaccine that is causing a shingles epidemic from what I've read.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/02/chicken-pox-vaccine-creates-shingles-epidemic.aspx

And this is where it gets weird.. I was talking to my chiropractor about this and he said he took his children to play with a child who got chicken pox when they were younger to get it over with. I've heard of this from friends as well. If they don't get it by a certain age you vaccinate.

pepomntpat · February 2013

We got it for Ro because it is pretty much required for school unless there is documented disease and as PP said, how do you ensure that? Everyone I know has gotten their LO vaccinated. DH had the vaccine as a teen and he gets shingles very frequently-when we first met he got it every year. It's been a few years knock on wood. So, I'm not sure. I am definitely in favor of vaccines, but sometimes I do think there is over vaccination for some of the more minor diseases.

tokenhoser · February 2013

Do not take vaccine advice from a chiro. Or mercola.com. Good grief, if that's your "research", you're in trouble.

It's nearly impossible for a kid to get chickenpox the "old fashioned way" now because most are vaccinated. Complications are rare, but deaths do occur even in children. And then there's the awesome week off work taking care of them. No thanks.

Jasmineeelizabeth · February 2013

tokenhoser:
Do not take vaccine advice from a chiro. Or mercola.com. Good grief, if that's your "research", you're in trouble.
It's nearly impossible for a kid to get chickenpox the "old fashioned way" now because most are vaccinated. Complications are rare, but deaths do occur even in children. And then there's the awesome week off work taking care of them. No thanks.

Those aren't my only considerations. I also have asked my doctor, my midwife, looked at peer reviewed sources. The week to take care of them is nothing to me if it means avoiding problems in their future. Coming into complications in childhood is more rare than if they had catch it in adulthood and that's what worries me the most about the vaccine. Nothing that I have posted is incorrect about the vaccine. Many people vaccinate with out thinking about it. I'm putting some thought into it and weighing the pros and cons of this particular one. There are actually quite a few parents who have decided not to vaccinate their children and when their child gets it will get the other parents to come over with their children to catch it and build the immunity.

Just something I'm looking into and wanting more opinions on.. Thank you for yours.

GraceInCA · February 2013

tokenhoser:
Do not take vaccine advice from a chiro. Or mercola.com. Good grief, if that's your "research", you're in trouble.
It's nearly impossible for a kid to get chickenpox the "old fashioned way" now because most are vaccinated. Complications are rare, but deaths do occur even in children. And then there's the awesome week off work taking care of them. No thanks.

Ditto this. Mercola is a horrible source for vax info - the site just tries to shill its own "alternative" products and remedies.

There is no credible, peer-reviewed scientific data which would support not getting this vaccine. Even when chicken pox isn't deadly, thousands of people a year are hospitalized because of it. Not to mention potential secondary infections from the lesions (and something like staph can be deadly). If a baby gets it and is lucky to survive and not be hospitalized, the sores will cause scarring to their delicate skin.

I have yet to see any credible data that shows the risk of having this vaccine to be greater than the benefit.

iris427 · February 2013

145 kids used to die every year of chicken pox before the vaccine was available, so I vaccinated my kids. I'd rather take the risk of them getting shingles as adults than them dying of CP as kids. Having CP as a child does not prevent shingles--in fact, shingles is often caused by the same CP virus you caught as a child remaining dormant in your body and then reactivating in adulthood. The issue of how the CP vaccine will effect the rate of shingles is complex and I don't think anyone really knows what is going to happen there.

And Mercola is a complete quack.

MyNameWasTaken · February 2013

Jasmineeelizabeth:
Actually it's the vaccine that is causing a shingles epidemic from what I've read.

Wrong. Shingles is when the chickenpox virus, herpes zoster, "reactivates". Your first outbreak is the chicken pox, and typically, you develop a lifelong immunity to it. However, some people experience another outbreak, though it's not common, and of that small percentage, most do not have more than one or two outbreaks in their entire lifespan. A very tiny percentage experience outbreaks with any regularity.

I never got this vaccine, yet I've had two shingles episodes, both times when I was really sick.

Haley.Beth · February 2013

I am very skeptical about this vaccine as well, and have talked to several health care professionals, and consulted studies from outside the US. Japan has implemented the varicella vaccine twice as long as the US and has good info on it. What is causing outbreaks of shingles is not the vaccine itself, it's the fact that we are no longer getting our natural "boosters."

Consider this. Before the vaccine, each generation caught the virus. As the children caught the virus, the parents and grandparents would be exposed, but instead of catching the full on virus, their immune systems got a "memory boost" of sorts. Now, since we've begun vaccinating, adults are not being exposed as much or as often, so we're not getting our "boosters." This is causing our immune systems to forget how to fight the virus that remains hidden in our nerve cells, giving it opportunities to come back in adulthood.

Theoretically, if every child is vaccinated, eventually we should eradicate the virus. However, it's only 70-90% effective, and either way the deactivated virus is staying in our systems. Until we come up with an adult booster, there's a good chance we will never completely eradicate shingles, and the mortality rate for shingles is much, much higher than chicken pox.

I still haven't decided 100% what I want to do about this particular vaccine.

KateLouise · February 2013

yeah I'm not 100% decided either. My Dr friend got both of her boys vaccinated.

Here in NZ, you have to pay to have it done. The money isn't an issue, but it not being funded makes me think our ministry of health doesn't think it's that big of a deal. All other standard vaccines are free for children.

I definitely need to think on it more.

AmyRI · February 2013

This is the only vax that we have chosen to delay. We're going to see if they get it before they get to be schoolage, and if not then we will vax. We know about the increased risk of shingles, but we are also concerned about not keeping up with the chicken pox boosters. None of the adults I know that were vaccinated are current on the booster, and that really worries me.

Jasmineeelizabeth · February 2013

Haley.Beth:
I am very skeptical about this vaccine as well, and have talked to several health care professionals, and consulted studies from outside the US. Japan has implemented the varicella vaccine twice as long as the US and has good info on it. What is causing outbreaks of shingles is not the vaccine itself, it's the fact that we are no longer getting our natural "boosters."
Consider this. Before the vaccine, each generation caught the virus. As the children caught the virus, the parents and grandparents would be exposed, but instead of catching the full on virus, their immune systems got a "memory boost" of sorts. Now, since we've begun vaccinating, adults are not being exposed as much or as often, so we're not getting our "boosters." This is causing our immune systems to forget how to fight the virus that remains hidden in our nerve cells, giving it opportunities to come back in adulthood.
Theoretically, if every child is vaccinated, eventually we should eradicate the virus. However, it's only 70-90% effective, and either way the deactivated virus is staying in our systems. Until we come up with an adult booster, there's a good chance we will never completely eradicate shingles, and the mortality rate for shingles is much, much higher than chicken pox.
I still haven't decided 100% what I want to do about this particular vaccine.

Thank you for this.

Jasmineeelizabeth · February 2013

GraceInCA:
tokenhoser:
Do not take vaccine advice from a chiro. Or mercola.com. Good grief, if that's your "research", you're in trouble.
It's nearly impossible for a kid to get chickenpox the "old fashioned way" now because most are vaccinated. Complications are rare, but deaths do occur even in children. And then there's the awesome week off work taking care of them. No thanks.
Ditto this. Mercola is a horrible source for vax info - the site just tries to shill its own "alternative" products and remedies.
There is no credible, peer-reviewed scientific data which would support not getting this vaccine. Even when chicken pox isn't deadly, thousands of people a year are hospitalized because of it. Not to mention potential secondary infections from the lesions (and something like staph can be deadly). If a baby gets it and is lucky to survive and not be hospitalized, the sores will cause scarring to their delicate skin.
I have yet to see any credible data that shows the risk of having this vaccine to be greater than the benefit.

scholar.google.com and search chicken pox vaccine. Nearly every thing that comes up (all peer reviewed) has to do with the pros and cons of getting the vaccine. I just posted that link because it has the cons mapped out in a way that's easier to read that corresponds with some things I've heard. There is similar information other more credible places when you do a search in scholar.

This is a vaccine that there is a lot of controversy over. I don't think I'm being unreasonable to question it before I give it to my child.

iris427 · February 2013

Haley.Beth:
I am very skeptical about this vaccine as well, and have talked to several health care professionals, and consulted studies from outside the US. Japan has implemented the varicella vaccine twice as long as the US and has good info on it. What is causing outbreaks of shingles is not the vaccine itself, it's the fact that we are no longer getting our natural "boosters."
Consider this. Before the vaccine, each generation caught the virus. As the children caught the virus, the parents and grandparents would be exposed, but instead of catching the full on virus, their immune systems got a "memory boost" of sorts. Now, since we've begun vaccinating, adults are not being exposed as much or as often, so we're not getting our "boosters." This is causing our immune systems to forget how to fight the virus that remains hidden in our nerve cells, giving it opportunities to come back in adulthood.
Theoretically, if every child is vaccinated, eventually we should eradicate the virus. However, it's only 70-90% effective, and either way the deactivated virus is staying in our systems. Until we come up with an adult booster, there's a good chance we will never completely eradicate shingles, and the mortality rate for shingles is much, much higher than chicken pox.
I still haven't decided 100% what I want to do about this particular vaccine.

There is an adult shingles vaccine.

wifeofadam · February 2013

This is one of about four vaccines that we are delaying or skipping. I am pretty positive that my kids aren't going to come in contact with CP naturally, because our family doc says that in over a decade of practice she has never seen a case where we live. So, we'll just wait until the kids are older and if they haven't been exposed, we may give them the shot.

We also homeschool, so the school/vaccination thing isn't an issue for us.

tokenhoser · February 2013

iris427:
There is an adult shingles vaccine.

Yes, and even my total doctor skeptic father went and got one.

The reasons for covering or not covering under public health is a cost one. The cost of those 175 deaths in the USA actually don't justify the cost of giving the vaccine to all children, but once lost work time was factored into the economics, it became viable. Personally, the risks of getting chicken pox are bad enough to justify it for my kid. Perhaps I just remember too clearly getting the disease, as I was 12 and it was really, really rough. I still have a couple scars.

nosoup4u · February 2013

No one's heard of pox parties on here? I think I know too many hippies IRL, heh heh. You find a sick kid, and then they all share a lollipop with each other.

My sisters and I all had CP when I was about 7, and my little sister and my oldest sister were hit the hardest. My little sister was 2 at the time, and was really sick since she was still pretty small. My oldest sister was 16 and she ended up getting Bell's Palsy (a complication in older kids and adults), and she and I both had some spots that got infected and scarred. It wasn't fun, and I wouldn't want to put my kids through it, even if it's considered a "mild" illness. Both of my kids got the vaccine.

pdilly2b · February 2013

We delayed the varicella (chickenpox) vaccine by 6 mo just because I didn't want to give DS that one and MMR at the same time. It probably would have been fine, but I wanted to space out the live virus vaccines - not for scientific reasons, but just my feelings.

What put me over the edge on doing it vs. seeing if he got it naturally was that it prevents shingles later in life also. As far as I can tell, only quack resources say that it causes shingles because the medical evidence indicates the exact opposite.

melody921 · February 2013

I had a HORRIBLE case of the chicken pox as a kid, so I was thrilled when I found out my kids would never have to endure this and therefore likely won't get shingles either since the virus won't be lying dormant in their bodies. I always think the vaccine risk is lower than that of getting the disease, which is why it exists in the first place though.

kathleen02 · February 2013

Haley.Beth:

I am very skeptical about this vaccine as well, and have talked to several health care professionals, and consulted studies from outside the US. Japan has implemented the varicella vaccine twice as long as the US and has good info on it. What is causing outbreaks of shingles is not the vaccine itself, it's the fact that we are no longer getting our natural "boosters."

Consider this. Before the vaccine, each generation caught the virus. As the children caught the virus, the parents and grandparents would be exposed, but instead of catching the full on virus, their immune systems got a "memory boost" of sorts. Now, since we've begun vaccinating, adults are not being exposed as much or as often, so we're not getting our "boosters." This is causing our immune systems to forget how to fight the virus that remains hidden in our nerve cells, giving it opportunities to come back in adulthood.

Theoretically, if every child is vaccinated, eventually we should eradicate the virus. However, it's only 70-90% effective, and either way the deactivated virus is staying in our systems. Until we come up with an adult booster, there's a good chance we will never completely eradicate shingles, and the mortality rate for shingles is much, much higher than chicken pox.

I still haven't decided 100% what I want to do about this particular vaccine.

Yep, and this is why they had to come up with a Shingles vaccine because so many people were getting it. My mother got shingles a couple years ago and was miserable. She got it on her head. She couldn't lay down for several days because the pain was so intense. Her doctor said that once you get Shingles you are more susceptible to getting it again and again. I haven't vaccinated DS for chicken pox yet but I will if he hasn't come by it naturally. I had it when I was 2 and my mom said it wasn't bad in my case but everyone is different. There is a teeny part of me that thinks these drug companies are making lots of $$ off all this.

TheLittleRedM · February 2013

I don't really know the ins and outs of the vaccine itself but I got it when I was around 8, I think. My mom would literally stalk the parents who had kids sick with CP so that I would get it and not have to have to worry so much about it later in life but I never picked it up. I never had any issues after receiving it and I've never gotten Shingles. Of course, I'm not dead yet, so there's still time for that possibility but it's made me decide that my kids will be getting it if they don't get CP.

2junebabies · February 2013

I'm planning on skipping this one and if my kids don't get chicken pox by the time they're 10, then we'll consider the vaccine. Based on what I've read (mostly from Dr. Sears), getting the virus provides better lifelong immunity, which is why I want to take my chances with that first.

pdilly2b · February 2013

kathleen02:
Haley.Beth:

I am very skeptical about this vaccine as well, and have talked to several health care professionals, and consulted studies from outside the US. Japan has implemented the varicella vaccine twice as long as the US and has good info on it. What is causing outbreaks of shingles is not the vaccine itself, it's the fact that we are no longer getting our natural "boosters."

Consider this. Before the vaccine, each generation caught the virus. As the children caught the virus, the parents and grandparents would be exposed, but instead of catching the full on virus, their immune systems got a "memory boost" of sorts. Now, since we've begun vaccinating, adults are not being exposed as much or as often, so we're not getting our "boosters." This is causing our immune systems to forget how to fight the virus that remains hidden in our nerve cells, giving it opportunities to come back in adulthood.

Theoretically, if every child is vaccinated, eventually we should eradicate the virus. However, it's only 70-90% effective, and either way the deactivated virus is staying in our systems. Until we come up with an adult booster, there's a good chance we will never completely eradicate shingles, and the mortality rate for shingles is much, much higher than chicken pox.

I still haven't decided 100% what I want to do about this particular vaccine.

Yep, and this is why they had to come up with a Shingles vaccine because so many people were getting it. My mother got shingles a couple years ago and was miserable. She got it on her head. She couldn't lay down for several days because the pain was so intense. Her doctor said that once you get Shingles you are more susceptible to getting it again and again. I haven't vaccinated DS for chicken pox yet but I will if he hasn't come by it naturally. I had it when I was 2 and my mom said it wasn't bad in my case but everyone is different. There is a teeny part of me that thinks these drug companies are making lots of $$ off all this.

This is precisely why it is a good idea to get the vaccine - because chickenpox isn't around a lot naturally. You are setting your kid up for shingles if they get it naturally because they likely won't have enough future exposure to maintain the memory T cells against it (memory T cells last around 10 years if no stimulation for a secondary expansion), unless they then later get the shingles vaccine. So you can vaccinate now for varicella or later for shingles. Not sure what you think you are saving them from then.

And vaccines hardly ever make money for the drug industry. Companies make them more for good PR of helping the world so people will buy their more expensive cholesterol, high blood pressure, etc. drugs that get taken for years instead of just a couple doses.

Haley.Beth · February 2013

iris427:
Haley.Beth:
I am very skeptical about this vaccine as well, and have talked to several health care professionals, and consulted studies from outside the US. Japan has implemented the varicella vaccine twice as long as the US and has good info on it. What is causing outbreaks of shingles is not the vaccine itself, it's the fact that we are no longer getting our natural "boosters."
Consider this. Before the vaccine, each generation caught the virus. As the children caught the virus, the parents and grandparents would be exposed, but instead of catching the full on virus, their immune systems got a "memory boost" of sorts. Now, since we've begun vaccinating, adults are not being exposed as much or as often, so we're not getting our "boosters." This is causing our immune systems to forget how to fight the virus that remains hidden in our nerve cells, giving it opportunities to come back in adulthood.
Theoretically, if every child is vaccinated, eventually we should eradicate the virus. However, it's only 70-90% effective, and either way the deactivated virus is staying in our systems. Until we come up with an adult booster, there's a good chance we will never completely eradicate shingles, and the mortality rate for shingles is much, much higher than chicken pox.
I still haven't decided 100% what I want to do about this particular vaccine.
There is an adult shingles vaccine.

Unfortunately, the shingles vaccine is only given to people 60 & older, and there is little to no information on adults recieving boosters.

footnotegirl · February 2013

Here's the thing. With all vaccines, but even more so with chicken pix, you aren't vaccinating your child just to protect your child. You are also vaccinating them to protect everyone that they come in contact with. Chicken pix IS mild for children. But it is not mild for senior citizens i people with suppressed immune systems who might come in contact with children who are infected with the virus. Herd immunity: it's a beautiful thing.

sschwege · February 2013

footnotegirl:
Here's the thing. With all vaccines, but even more so with chicken pix, you aren't vaccinating your child just to protect your child. You are also vaccinating them to protect everyone that they come in contact with. Chicken pix IS mild for children. But it is not mild for senior citizens i people with suppressed immune systems who might come in contact with children who are infected with the virus. Herd immunity: it's a beautiful thing.

Agreed, this is why I feel like vaccination is a social responsibility. Those who can be vaccinated should be.

tmrchi · February 2013

FWIW, I'm a teacher and we have had a chicken pox outbreak every year for the last few years. Every kid that has been infected had the vaccine (it's mandatory here). Apparently between the effectiveness of the vaccine being lower and the fact that immunity wears off faster than originally thought means it isn't preventing chicken pox as much as they had hoped.

For me, I'd rather my kid be itchy for a week than have the vaccine, plus multiple boosters, and then a shingles vaccine and boosters for that too. I'm all for vaccinations for dangerous diseases, but this one doesn't seem worth it to me.

sooner1981 · February 2013

tmrchi:
FWIW, I'm a teacher and we have had a chicken pox outbreak every year for the last few years. Every kid that has been infected had the vaccine (it's mandatory here). Apparently between the effectiveness of the vaccine being lower and the fact that immunity wears off faster than originally thought means it isn't preventing chicken pox as much as they had hoped.
For me, I'd rather my kid be itchy for a week than have the vaccine, plus multiple boosters, and then a shingles vaccine and boosters for that too. I'm all for vaccinations for dangerous diseases, but this one doesn't seem worth it to me.

This is totally false. And FYI--if your kid never gets chicken pox, then they can't get shingles when they are older. Shingles ruin lives--they cause intense nerve pain that pain killers can't touch. If you get shingles and then post-herpetic neuropathy, you pretty much live with pain until you die. It doesn't kill you--it just makes living pretty much worthless (according to both my grandfathers). So, when you knowingly expose your child to chicken pox, you aren't just giving them a "week of itchiness" (if you are lucky--kids die from chicken pox every year). You are also exposing them to a virus that when it comes back later in life as shingles could literally ruin the quality of their life forever. Just something to think about...

sooner1981 · February 2013

TheLittleRedM:
I don't really know the ins and outs of the vaccine itself but I got it when I was around 8, I think. My mom would literally stalk the parents who had kids sick with CP so that I would get it and not have to have to worry so much about it later in life but I never picked it up. I never had any issues after receiving it and I've never gotten Shingles. Of course, I'm not dead yet, so there's still time for that possibility but it's made me decide that my kids will be getting it if they don't get CP.

The only way you can get shingles later in life is if you actually were infected with the chicken pox virus naturally. The vaccine does not contain a live virus--and thus it can not transfer that virus permanently into your body, where it goes dormant and then reappears as shingles later in life. Shingles is a horrible, horrible burden to knowingly place on your child.

Chicken pox Vaccine

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