Infertility

Embryo quality after 2nd freeze/thaw process?

We met with my RE last week to go over the FET protocol.  Seems pretty basic -- I'll just be on estrogen and progesterone.  She told me they are seeing almost twice as many pregnancies with medicated FETs as natural FETs, so that's what we chose.

Things got complicated when we started talking embryos.  We have 5, and they were frozen in pairs, so we have 2 pairs and 1 singleton.  Since we are still planning on SET, the obvious choice is to thaw the singleton.  She said that the embryos survive thaw 90% of the time, but if the singleton falls into the unlucky 10%, we'll have to thaw one of the pairs.  If only one of the pair survive thaw, we'll just transfer that one.  But if both of the pair survive, we have to decide whether to transfer both or re-freeze the second one.  In other words, do we risk multiples -- which we've been really committed to avoiding -- or do we risk the other embryo?  We would still have one unthawed pair left, but I was hoping to get a second pregnancy out of these embryos (although we only want 2 kids, so no second pregnancy necessary if we transfer 2 and both implant and are carried to term).

She told me embryos are less likely to survive the second freeze/thaw process, but not how much less likely.  Does anyone know the odds for this?  My Google search wasn't too successful.

All are A or B-grade blasts and were frozen using vitrification, if that helps.

Would love to hear what IF would do, especially from those who are also SETers!

Married my wife 8/2007 ~ TTC #1 since 7/2011
9 IUIs = 9 BFNs
IVF October 2012: 22 eggs retrieved, 17 fertilized, 5 frozen
ET #1: 1 blast = BFP; Blighted ovum discovered at 7w5d; D&E
FET #1: 1 blast = BFP; Missed m/c discovered at 9w5d; D&E
Karyotyping: normal ~ RPL Testing: normal ~ Hysteroscopy: normal
FET #2: 1 blast transferred 10/25; BFP 10/31!
EDD 7/13/14 ~ Induced at 37w4d due to pre-eclampsia ~ Born on 6/28/14
*Everyone welcome*

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Re: Embryo quality after 2nd freeze/thaw process?

  • Hmm this is a tough one. We also did a SET, we didn't want to risk multiples as well, but we only have 2 frosties so we have to thaw both of them at some point so I'd be in the same dilemma you have if you decide to thaw a pair, how many to transfer?

    Personally I would thaw a pair of embryos to ensure that at least one will thaw properly. If both do, I personally would probably put back both and risk multiples because I'd be afraid of losing the one we didn't put back.

    This is a tough one but I think that's what I would do in your situation. I don't have any evidence or research to back it up but that's my opinion. GL with whatever you choose! It's a tough decision deciding how many to put back.
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  • Thanks asilwhite!  I appreciate the input from someone in a similar situation.  My wife is leaning toward transferring both (if we thaw 2) and right now I'm leaning toward 1, but we have about 7 weeks to decide so we have a lot of thinking to do.  Trying to really think about it and figure out how I feel without obsessing (ha!).
    Married my wife 8/2007 ~ TTC #1 since 7/2011
    9 IUIs = 9 BFNs
    IVF October 2012: 22 eggs retrieved, 17 fertilized, 5 frozen
    ET #1: 1 blast = BFP; Blighted ovum discovered at 7w5d; D&E
    FET #1: 1 blast = BFP; Missed m/c discovered at 9w5d; D&E
    Karyotyping: normal ~ RPL Testing: normal ~ Hysteroscopy: normal
    FET #2: 1 blast transferred 10/25; BFP 10/31!
    EDD 7/13/14 ~ Induced at 37w4d due to pre-eclampsia ~ Born on 6/28/14
    *Everyone welcome*

    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
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  • I don't know personally but....

    A teacher I work with developed OHSS during IVF #1.  It was so bad that they had to cancel the transfer and freeze all the emrbyos.  She had something like almost 15-20 to make it to freeze (don't know the #, but something crazy).  The first FET they did failed, the second from the batch worked and they now have a 2 year old, and now the 3rd FET from the same batch they put in 2 and she is now pregnant triplets...a singleton and identical set! 

     

    It's looking like my IVF #2 has failed, and we have 5 frozen...so I'm very curious about your question as I have no clue how ours froze! Did they tell you in the beginning or did you just find out?

    Me:28, DH:30 Married: 07/07/07 TTC Since: March 2011 MFI Me: Possible PAI-1
    April 2012:Varicocele embolization
    IVF #1 July 2012: BFN :( DH- Femara 90 days 
    12/10/2012 Femara helped!
    IVF# 2: Jan 2013 BFP, M/C 6weeks0days
    5 frosties. 
    IVF #3 FET April 2013 BFP, M/C 7 weeks 0 days. 
    3 frosties
  • No advice ~ just want to wish you good luck with you decision
    TTC since 2006 3 Fertility Clinics Test, Pills & Injectables....oh my. Numerous failed IUI's 7 or 8 or more? IVF #1 June 2012 ~ praying this is the only one ER 6/13/12 - 13 ret, 7 fertilized, 7 progressing, ET 6/15/12, BFN & No freeze babies. Onto IVF #2 in October 2012. No, wait, body not cooperating. IVF #2 in November 2012 IVF #2 Began Provera in Sept to make me start. Never started. I O'd on my own??? 2 weeks of BCPs. Period. Baseline & Labs 10/25 Stims started 10/26 ~ 225 Follistim in the am. 150 Bravelle & 5 Lupron in pm. Trigger 11/4, ER 11/6, ET 11/9 - 2 great embies. 3 Freezebabies. Beta 11/23/2012 BFN. Now what??? I don't know if I can keep going? Daisypath Anniversary tickers I know the Lord would put a strong desire in my heart if it wasn't meant to be. - Isaiah 41:10
  • I have no great advice except to reflect together and to really think back on why you were originally set on a single. I have never heard about freezing in pairs. Why do they do this and did you have a decision point on this? TIA...
    | Married since 2008 | DH and I: Both 30 | Me: Endometriosis and Carrier of an X-Linked Dominant Genetic Disorder | DH: Low Morph | Planning IVF with PGD and PGS in 2013 | Freeze-All IVF #1: March 2013 ER 3/26. 29R, 12M, 11F. 4 5AA frozen blasts. Freeze-All IVF#2: May 2013 ER 5/15. 31R, 21M, 20F. 6 5AA frozen blasts. Our PGD probe was completed in late June (total of 20 weeks to develop). PGD and PGS Results came on 6/19: 3 healthy embryos (normal chromosomes and unaffected by my family's genetic disorder). FET #1: July 2013 Natural Cycle - Cancelled due to insufficient lining (only got to 7.5mm). FET #1.2: August 2013 - Medicated Cycle with Lupron & Estrogen Patches to build up lining. Single embryo transfer was 8/23. Beta #1: 240! Beta #2: 578! U/S on 9/19 at 6w4d: We saw the heart beating at 131bpm. Second U/S on 10/4 at 8w5d: We saw the heart beating at 178bpm. EDD 5/11/2014
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  • imageRosyGlow:
    I have no great advice except to reflect together and to really think back on why you were originally set on a single. I have never heard about freezing in pairs. Why do they do this and did you have a decision point on this? TIA...

    They did not ask us how we wanted them frozen.  Based on things I've heard on this board, it seems to be standard practice to freeze them in pairs.

    Married my wife 8/2007 ~ TTC #1 since 7/2011
    9 IUIs = 9 BFNs
    IVF October 2012: 22 eggs retrieved, 17 fertilized, 5 frozen
    ET #1: 1 blast = BFP; Blighted ovum discovered at 7w5d; D&E
    FET #1: 1 blast = BFP; Missed m/c discovered at 9w5d; D&E
    Karyotyping: normal ~ RPL Testing: normal ~ Hysteroscopy: normal
    FET #2: 1 blast transferred 10/25; BFP 10/31!
    EDD 7/13/14 ~ Induced at 37w4d due to pre-eclampsia ~ Born on 6/28/14
    *Everyone welcome*

    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
  • imageJourneytoJoy07:

    It's looking like my IVF #2 has failed, and we have 5 frozen...so I'm very curious about your question as I have no clue how ours froze! Did they tell you in the beginning or did you just find out?

    We were told the quality of each embryo pre-freeze; we do not know at this point how well they will survive thaw but are just trying to figure out what we would do in any of the possible situations so that we are prepared.  It only takes an hour or so to thaw an embryo from what I've read so the situation could change a lot that day and I want to be ready so I'm not making a snap decision.

    I hope you're wrong that your IVF #2 has failed, but I'm sorry if it is a BFN.  GL and thanks for your input!

    Married my wife 8/2007 ~ TTC #1 since 7/2011
    9 IUIs = 9 BFNs
    IVF October 2012: 22 eggs retrieved, 17 fertilized, 5 frozen
    ET #1: 1 blast = BFP; Blighted ovum discovered at 7w5d; D&E
    FET #1: 1 blast = BFP; Missed m/c discovered at 9w5d; D&E
    Karyotyping: normal ~ RPL Testing: normal ~ Hysteroscopy: normal
    FET #2: 1 blast transferred 10/25; BFP 10/31!
    EDD 7/13/14 ~ Induced at 37w4d due to pre-eclampsia ~ Born on 6/28/14
    *Everyone welcome*

    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
  • My situation is a little different. MH and I just had our 7 remaining embryos thawed and biopsied for PGS. After the biopsy, all 7 made it back to freeze. Unfortunately   we got word back that 3 of the 7 were abnormal. We have not gotten to a thaw yet for a transfer. Our FET is scheduled for 2 weeks. I have some higher hopes than before since all 7 of them survived the 2nd freeze,  (including the 3 abnormal), now we just need to make it through thawing. My RE did explain that the pregnancy rate is lower, explaining that not enough research has been done to give numbers, but did continue to say that this is something they have done in there office and they have seen pregnancy occur from a second freeze/thaw. I'm not sure that helps much, but I hope it gives you some hope. GL
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