The Business of Being Born - Thoughts?

HappyBeagle · January 2013

I've just watched The Business of Being Born. I'd love to hear from those of you who have seen it too, to see what you made of it.

I have the following observations:

1. I live in the UK. Hospital births here are midwife-led and there is a huge pro-activeness towards natural births (e.g., rooms without beds, balls, water births being an option etc)

2. Likewise, we have the NHS. No need to involve insurance companies etc. (Genuine question - is the UK system therefore a 'happy medium?')

3. I enjoyed the documentary, but surely they could have spoken to some mothers who had epidurals in hospital and had positive experiences?

4. I'm flip-flopping. I like the idea of a calm, natural birth, but all of those screaming women in labour have put me off! Ideally, a C-section would be a last resort for me, but I'm undecided as to pain relief.

5. I read an online review which accused the documentary of scaremongering; it said something along the lines that expectant mothers would now always have an extra layer of fear and caution regarding hospital births. I think I agree with this now. I don't live in the US, but having seen this, I'd be wary of the motives of the doctors. Is this how any of you feel?

tokenhoser · January 2013

I just watched it a week or so ago. It's a documentary with an agenda - that's why there are no "I had my epi in the hospital and loved it" stories.

I had a med-free birth last time, and will again this time hopefully. I'm in Canada, which means that the "typical" American experience isn't the same as the "typical" experience here, but most moms at the hospital I deliver at get an epidural. For me, I had a great birth and have very few things I plan to change the second time around. I found birth really empowering and amazing and, God willing, I'll do it without drugs again. I was not a "screaming woman" in labour.

I think women should have some suspicion about hospitals and doctors. The c-section rate is really, really high. If you don't question things, it's easier to become a statistic.

singahappysong · January 2013

My two cents: Watch other videos as well. Its very One Sided and definitely has an agenda, so just look into other books and whatnot to make yourself as educated as possible.

JaimeCH · January 2013

I watched it during my last pregnancy and found it to be very biased. I ended up getting an epidural at 6cm w/ DD, could feel the need to push, and had a wonderful birth and post-partum experience.

Amanda&EricB · January 2013

I didn't like it. I had a med-free hospital birth, it was very calm and beautiful. However, I think every woman needs to decide for herself what's best for her. There is no shame in getting an epidural, and no reason to dread a c section. If it's medically necessary, then by all means, it's necessary.

I know it was a documentary, and the point of a documentary is to sway opinions. But I just found it to be too much.

GraceInCA · January 2013

I found it to be entertaining, and I didn't think it was as biased as others thought it was. How could it be when (spoiler alert - don't read ahead if you don't want to know what happens when you watch it) one of the two filmmakers ended up having a c-section during production, and that was the right decision for her? I think the movie did a decent job exposing a broken system. The obstetrical community claims the interventions are life-saving for mom and baby, but they're lying because we have some of the worst infant and maternal mortality rates in the first world here in the U.S. I think we're not doing a great job in this country of preparing women for childbirth, and giving them good, safe options.

nycnola · January 2013

I really liked it. I watched it before I was even pregnant with DD1 because I thought it sounded interesting, and for me, it helped introduce other ways of thinking about birth that I don't know if I would have come to myself (I grew up in a very medicalized family, my grandpa is an old-school doctor). So, it pointed me in the right direction for doing my own research, for sure. The research I did from there really helped me when I ended up needing a ton of interventions and a c-section- I didn't feel so clueless and helpless. And I do think it does a good job of putting statistics out there that a lot of people wouldn't necessarily think to look for. Also, my DH was a med student at a top med school when we watched it, and he had only ever seen/been taught medicalized births. There is one scene where a woman is practically silent and delivers her baby in the birthing tub. I though DH's eyes were going to bug out because he had never seen that before. So, I thought it was helpful.

JCWhitey · January 2013

The point of the documentary was the show that there are other options for women that may be preferable to some. If it was a documentary that was designed to show what all forms of birth are like and weigh their pros and cons then it would be strange if they didn't have a successful epidural birth mentioned in there. But, again, that wasn't the point of the film.

As for your points #4- I've attended several home births and have never encountered a screaming woman. The one screamer I did encounter was at a hospital, but I think it was more her personality rather than the setting of the birth. She also had an epi, btw! Even with an epi labor is hard work.

For point #5 I'm going to say this: I think it's a good thing. Especially here in the US we have this tendency to blindly trust doctors as all knowing. While most doctors are well trained, thee are some bad policies and bad doctors, not all are created equal and to blindly trust a doctor is irresponsible, IMO. I'm not even talking about birth, either. Even the OB who did my u/s back in December said that if he didn't know that I was getting an u/s to check on the progress of a baby he would have thought I was there for fertility treatment based on what he was seeing and that he would tell me getting pregnant without medical help would be impossible. Then he laughed and said "doctors are wrong... all the time!".

Anyway, my point is, with the way our medical industry is set up, we need to be asking more questions and letting doctors know that we like knowing what's happening to us. Many times women are given IV drugs during labor and not even told what they are getting and why. That, IMO, is horrible and should not happen. Unfortunately, since we are also very uneducated in America on these things, and I'm sure they get sick of uneducated people questioning them constantly and then turning to Doctor Google to make decisions, which is also irresponsible.

tokenhoser · January 2013

tricia560:
GraceInCA:
I found it to be entertaining, and I didn't think it was as biased as others thought it was. How could it be when (spoiler alert - don't read ahead if you don't want to know what happens when you watch it) one of the two filmmakers ended up having a c-section during production, and that was the right decision for her? I think the movie did a decent job exposing a broken system. The obstetrical community claims the interventions are life-saving for mom and baby, but they're lying because we have some of the worst infant and maternal mortality rates in the first world here in the U.S. I think we're not doing a great job in this country of preparing women for childbirth, and giving them good, safe options.
Where do you get that information? And what are they comparing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate

Yes, it's wikipedia, but you can easily drill down to the source data. USA = #34 in infant mortality. Or #50 if you prefer the CIA factbook to the UN data.

GraceInCA · January 2013

tricia560:
GraceInCA:
I found it to be entertaining, and I didn't think it was as biased as others thought it was. How could it be when (spoiler alert - don't read ahead if you don't want to know what happens when you watch it) one of the two filmmakers ended up having a c-section during production, and that was the right decision for her? I think the movie did a decent job exposing a broken system. The obstetrical community claims the interventions are life-saving for mom and baby, but they're lying because we have some of the worst infant and maternal mortality rates in the first world here in the U.S. I think we're not doing a great job in this country of preparing women for childbirth, and giving them good, safe options.
Where do you get that information? And what are they comparing?

Information is from the WHO, the CDC, and other reputable organizations. Comparison is against first would countries, mostly European countries.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/infant_health.htm

In 2005, the latest year that the international ranking is available for, the United States ranked 30th in the world in infant mortality, behind most European countries, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan, and Israel. From what I understand, that number has gotten even worse.https://www.who.int/healthinfo/statistics/mortality_neonatal/en/index.htmlWe perform a ton of interventions as part of what is considered "routine care" in the United States (numerous third tri prenatal checks, inducing labor, fetal monitoring), but our outcomes are not improved by all that intervention. Our mortality rates for premies are also much worse.

JCWhitey · January 2013

Pregnant in America has quite a few more statistics in it as to where the US is compared to other developed countries. It's pretty alarming, especially since no one seems to think there's really a problem worth looking into and then criticizes films that try to point it out.

The US is one of the only few countries where OB care is standard. In Scandinavian countries (which are ranked in the top 10) midwife care is standard and OBs are reserved (usually) for high risk situations.

Also in the US even doctors are basically ruled over by the insurance companies. So even if they wish things could be done differently there are a lot of obstacles standing in their way.

Amanda&EricB · January 2013

The last thing I have to add to this is, my husband's aunt, my MIL, and my SIL are all L&D nurses. We hear stories around the dinner table. Two that have stuck out in my mind:

Woman refused any interventions, she wanted to do everything "natural", drug free, etc. She pushed for 4 hours, and at that point only gave in to a c section because the baby's heart rate stopped altogether. They opened her up to find the baby's head crushed and brain matter everywhere.

Woman didn't want any interventions, although she wasn't as hell-bent as the other lady. She didn't want the monitoring, etc. She gave birth, and basically demanded for her and baby to be discharged 24 hours later (instead of 48 hours). The next day (first day home), she dropped dead of a heart attack, something about her blood pressure.

I'm not saying this is the norm. I'm not saying this to scare anyone. I'm simply saying, sometimes intervention is not a bad thing. Sometimes doctors ARE able to save lives. And not all doctors are just out there to cut you open so they can go back to their golf game.

(PS... I'm a huge proponent of doing things the way you want to... until your or your baby's health needs change. At that point, the selfish desires to deliver drug free need to just stop).

MrserinJ · January 2013

I live in Canada, so I really couldn't relate to a lot of the documentary.

I feel either it was very pushy with its agenda or else things are just a lot different in Canada.

The things I learned from it are that
1. It's good to be educated about all options but
2. You really need to trust whomever you choose as a health care provider. That doesn't mean trust blindly, it means do your research and decide to trust and be comfortable with whomever you choose.

It bothers me when women who have watched a few documentaries and done some Internet research deem themselves more knowledgeable than the doctor who has experience and years of education.

I have had 2 babies, both in a hospital, both with my family doctor, whom I trust completely. With my first, I needed Pitocin as contractions didn't start for 24 hours after my water broke at home and I also had an epidural. It was a wonderful experience.

With my second, I intended to have an epidural again but after they broke my water at 6 cm I went to 10 in less than 10 mins so there wasn't time. I won't say I loved that labor but I knew I was in good hands, which is so important. I never once felt pushed into anything and never worried my doctor would have anything other than mine and baby's best interests in mind.

tokenhoser · January 2013

Amanda&EricB:
The last thing I have to add to this is, my husband's aunt, my MIL, and my SIL are all L&D nurses. We hear stories around the dinner table. Two that have stuck out in my mind:
Woman refused any interventions, she wanted to do everything "natural", drug free, etc. She pushed for 4 hours, and at that point only gave in to a c section because the baby's heart rate stopped altogether. They opened her up to find the baby's head crushed and brain matter everywhere.
Woman didn't want any interventions, although she wasn't as hell-bent as the other lady. She didn't want the monitoring, etc. She gave birth, and basically demanded for her and baby to be discharged 24 hours later (instead of 48 hours). The next day (first day home), she dropped dead of a heart attack, something about her blood pressure.
I'm not saying this is the norm. I'm not saying this to scare anyone. I'm simply saying, sometimes intervention is not a bad thing. Sometimes doctors ARE able to save lives. And not all doctors are just out there to cut you open so they can go back to their golf game.
(PS... I'm a huge proponent of doing things the way you want to... until your or your baby's health needs change. At that point, the selfish desires to deliver drug free need to just stop).

I think you absolutely tell these stories to scare women.

Amanda&EricB · January 2013

tokenhoser:
Amanda&EricB:
The last thing I have to add to this is, my husband's aunt, my MIL, and my SIL are all L&D nurses. We hear stories around the dinner table. Two that have stuck out in my mind:
Woman refused any interventions, she wanted to do everything "natural", drug free, etc. She pushed for 4 hours, and at that point only gave in to a c section because the baby's heart rate stopped altogether. They opened her up to find the baby's head crushed and brain matter everywhere.
Woman didn't want any interventions, although she wasn't as hell-bent as the other lady. She didn't want the monitoring, etc. She gave birth, and basically demanded for her and baby to be discharged 24 hours later (instead of 48 hours). The next day (first day home), she dropped dead of a heart attack, something about her blood pressure.
I'm not saying this is the norm. I'm not saying this to scare anyone. I'm simply saying, sometimes intervention is not a bad thing. Sometimes doctors ARE able to save lives. And not all doctors are just out there to cut you open so they can go back to their golf game.
(PS... I'm a huge proponent of doing things the way you want to... until your or your baby's health needs change. At that point, the selfish desires to deliver drug free need to just stop).
I think you absolutely tell these stories to scare women.

How is it different if I tell women some very real things that *could* happen to them (or anybody), versus a movie/show doing it? Fear mongering is only ok if it's on the tv screen? That's ridiculous.

Childbirth is scary. But being scared doesn't have to mean you should close your eyes and ears to reality. Bad things happen- but they can happen at home, or at a birth center as well.

I'm not going to hold someone's hand and tell them they are right for being paranoid and naive.

GraceInCA · January 2013

Amanda&EricB:
How is it different if I tell women some very real things that *could* happen to them (or anybody), versus a movie/show doing it? Fear mongering is only ok if it's on the tv screen? That's ridiculous.
Childbirth is scary. But being scared doesn't have to mean you should close your eyes and ears to reality. Bad things happen- but they can happen at home, or at a birth center as well.
I'm not going to hold someone's hand and tell them they are right for being paranoid and naive.

I agree with the previous poster, I thought your post was ridiculous.

The difference is that your "stories" are anecdotal - and very alarmist. At the very least, the movie shared information from professionals and discussed statistics. Statistics are statistics, facts are facts, but "My cousin's uncle's hairdresser knew a guy who saw a girl die in natural childbirth at Baskin Robbins," has little value. Empowering women by informing them about birth choices is NOT scare tactics. The reality is that many women do not have access to information and can't make informed birth choices because of the way the system operates. Scaring them isn't useful, but helping get facts out there is very useful. Telling women that we have inferior birth outcomes in the US is not alarmist, but telling women that you heard some poor infant's skull got crushed in utero because mom declined intervention is total BS.

blush64 · January 2013

MrserinJ:
I live in Canada, so I really couldn't relate to a lot of the documentary. I feel either it was very pushy with its agenda or else things are just a lot different in Canada. The things I learned from it are that 1. It's good to be educated about all options but 2. You really need to trust whomever you choose as a health care provider. That doesn't mean trust blindly, it means do your research and decide to trust and be comfortable with whomever you choose. It bothers me when women who have watched a few documentaries and done some Internet research deem themselves more knowledgeable than the doctor who has experience and years of education. I have had 2 babies, both in a hospital, both with my family doctor, whom I trust completely. With my first, I needed Pitocin as contractions didn't start for 24 hours after my water broke at home and I also had an epidural. It was a wonderful experience. With my second, I intended to have an epidural again but after they broke my water at 6 cm I went to 10 in less than 10 mins so there wasn't time. I won't say I loved that labor but I knew I was in good hands, which is so important. I never once felt pushed into anything and never worried my doctor would have anything other than mine and baby's best interests in mind.

I also am Canadian and I found the film to be very misleading. It simply does not represent the majority of hospital births. It also does not paint an accurate picture of OBs and nurses.

I had two hospital births and both went well. One was med-free and one was with an epidural. I had the same OB for each and used the same hospital. At no time was anything pushed on me. I was encouraged to walk around and change positions to help labour. (before I had my epidural) With my first son when I went med-free things were also fine. the nurse asked once if I wanted anything, I did not and that was it.

I won't get in to more detail right now but I found the Business of Being born to be a lot of fear mongering and propaganda. Perhaps things really are just that different.

GraceInCA · January 2013

blush64:
MrserinJ:
I live in Canada, so I really couldn't relate to a lot of the documentary. I feel either it was very pushy with its agenda or else things are just a lot different in Canada. The things I learned from it are that 1. It's good to be educated about all options but 2. You really need to trust whomever you choose as a health care provider. That doesn't mean trust blindly, it means do your research and decide to trust and be comfortable with whomever you choose. It bothers me when women who have watched a few documentaries and done some Internet research deem themselves more knowledgeable than the doctor who has experience and years of education. I have had 2 babies, both in a hospital, both with my family doctor, whom I trust completely. With my first, I needed Pitocin as contractions didn't start for 24 hours after my water broke at home and I also had an epidural. It was a wonderful experience. With my second, I intended to have an epidural again but after they broke my water at 6 cm I went to 10 in less than 10 mins so there wasn't time. I won't say I loved that labor but I knew I was in good hands, which is so important. I never once felt pushed into anything and never worried my doctor would have anything other than mine and baby's best interests in mind.
I also am Canadian and I found the film to be very misleading. It simply does not represent the majority of hospital births. It also does not paint an accurate picture of OBs and nurses.
I had two hospital births and both went well. One was med-free and one was with an epidural. I had the same OB for each and used the same hospital. At no time was anything pushed on me. I was encouraged to walk around and change positions to help labour. (before I had my epidural) With my first son when I went med-free things were also fine. the nurse asked once if I wanted anything, I did not and that was it.
I won't get in to more detail right now but I found the Business of Being born to be a lot of fear mongering and propaganda. Perhaps things really are just that different.

Were those your experiences in Canada? That is not typical for birth procedure here in the States sadly.

JCWhitey · January 2013

tokenhoser:
Amanda&EricB:
The last thing I have to add to this is, my husband's aunt, my MIL, and my SIL are all L&D nurses. We hear stories around the dinner table. Two that have stuck out in my mind:
Woman refused any interventions, she wanted to do everything "natural", drug free, etc. She pushed for 4 hours, and at that point only gave in to a c section because the baby's heart rate stopped altogether. They opened her up to find the baby's head crushed and brain matter everywhere.
Woman didn't want any interventions, although she wasn't as hell-bent as the other lady. She didn't want the monitoring, etc. She gave birth, and basically demanded for her and baby to be discharged 24 hours later (instead of 48 hours). The next day (first day home), she dropped dead of a heart attack, something about her blood pressure.
I'm not saying this is the norm. I'm not saying this to scare anyone. I'm simply saying, sometimes intervention is not a bad thing. Sometimes doctors ARE able to save lives. And not all doctors are just out there to cut you open so they can go back to their golf game.
(PS... I'm a huge proponent of doing things the way you want to... until your or your baby's health needs change. At that point, the selfish desires to deliver drug free need to just stop).
I think you absolutely tell these stories to scare women.

Yeah and a quick Google search showed the brain/head thing happening in Missouri... when a Doctor caused it to happen during delivery when he tried to yank the baby out of the birth canal, and then pushed it back in, and tried to cover it up. At least that's what the couple's lawsuit claims....

tokenhoser · January 2013

GraceInCA:
Amanda&EricB:
How is it different if I tell women some very real things that *could* happen to them (or anybody), versus a movie/show doing it? Fear mongering is only ok if it's on the tv screen? That's ridiculous.
Childbirth is scary. But being scared doesn't have to mean you should close your eyes and ears to reality. Bad things happen- but they can happen at home, or at a birth center as well.
I'm not going to hold someone's hand and tell them they are right for being paranoid and naive.
I agree with the previous poster, I thought your post was ridiculous.
The difference is that your "stories" are anecdotal - and very alarmist. At the very least, the movie shared information from professionals and discussed statistics. Statistics are statistics, facts are facts, but "My cousin's uncle's hairdresser knew a guy who saw a girl die in natural childbirth at Baskin Robbins," has little value. Empowering women by informing them about birth choices is NOT scare tactics. The reality is that many women do not have access to information and can't make informed birth choices because of the way the system operates. Scaring them isn't useful, but helping get facts out there is very useful. Telling women that we have inferior birth outcomes in the US is not alarmist, but telling women that you heard some poor infant's skull got crushed in utero because mom declined intervention is total BS.

Exactly. Telling stories that you heard from a friend of a friend is right up there with all those kids named "La-a". They're just things that get told and retold, they're not the true story of what's really happening. America has terrible birth statistics. Just blindly trusting the system and doing what you're told gets you to, at best, thirtieth place. Insisting that every c-section and intervention is necessary is just putting your head in the sand - at the expense of mothers and babies.

Mrs.Handy · January 2013

GraceInCA:
Amanda&EricB:
How is it different if I tell women some very real things that *could* happen to them (or anybody), versus a movie/show doing it? Fear mongering is only ok if it's on the tv screen? That's ridiculous.
Childbirth is scary. But being scared doesn't have to mean you should close your eyes and ears to reality. Bad things happen- but they can happen at home, or at a birth center as well.

I'm not going to hold someone's hand and tell them they are right for being paranoid and naive.

I agree with the previous poster, I thought your post was ridiculous.

The difference is that your "stories" are anecdotal - and very alarmist. At the very least, the movie shared information from professionals and discussed statistics. Statistics are statistics, facts are facts, but "My cousin's uncle's hairdresser knew a guy who saw a girl die in natural childbirth at Baskin Robbins," has little value. Empowering women by informing them about birth choices is NOT scare tactics. The reality is that many women do not have access to information and can't make informed birth choices because of the way the system operates. Scaring them isn't useful, but helping get facts out there is very useful. Telling women that we have inferior birth outcomes in the US is not alarmist, but telling women that you heard some poor infant's skull got crushed in utero because mom declined intervention is total BS.

Very well said. I enjoyed the documentary. I agree with the sentiment that there are many things wrong with maternal care in the U.S. The more people are aware of that, the more things are likely to change.

I liked it better than "Pregnant in America" maybe because Ricki Lake was a lot less "hospitals are evil" than the person in Pregnant in America.

I had a med-free birth with DS in a hospital with a wonderful midwife. It was a fine experience. This time around we're going with a birthing center. We may do a home birth, but we haven't decided yet.

AMLauer · January 2013

If you watch the episodes they made after the movie they go more into c sections and vbac. Still somewhat biased but not so much as the movie

Snapdragon750 · January 2013

I had a natural birth in the hospital and loved it. I stay away from these kinds of documentaries because they paint doctors and hospitals as "the enemy," and this was completely contrary to my experience; the fact that you CAN have a natural and supportive birth IN a hospital is always completely glossed over by these pro-midwife, anti-hospital books and documentaries. My hospital and doctor were fantastic.

I agree with your last point. Women do need to be informed about their rights and choices, but these scaremongering "all doctors are just looking to cut you up and get their paycheck" tactics are making women afraid for no reason. I mean, you choose your doctor, and if you ask some basic questions it's pretty easy to tell if they'll be supportive to a natural birth or not.

tokenhoser · January 2013

One of the people that appears over and over in The BofBB is actually a doctor.

Yes, a real live OB. It's even a man. And he is pretty on board that a lot of maternity care is in pretty rough shape.

I had a lovely birth experience in a hospital, with a doctor. Pretending that everyone does is how nothing gets better across the board. And as for a couple of basic questions being enough... yeah, not so much. There are a lot of bait-and-switch doctors out there, too.

It also amuses me when people know all about something they refuse to watch.

brrkrrs18 · January 2013

In my opinion, that documentary is extremely biased and belittles women who give birth in hospitals. I watched it very early in my pregnancy before I had a lot of knowledge on the birthing process and it scared the *** out of me. Unless someone is planning to give birth at home, I wouldn't recommend it...

Amanda&EricB · January 2013

Snapdragon750:
I had a natural birth in the hospital and loved it. I stay away from these kinds of documentaries because they paint doctors and hospitals as "the enemy," and this was completely contrary to my experience; the fact that you CAN have a natural and supportive birth IN a hospital is always completely glossed over by these pro-midwife, anti-hospital books and documentaries. My hospital and doctor were fantastic.
I agree with your last point. Women do need to be informed about their rights and choices, but these scaremongering "all doctors are just looking to cut you up and get their paycheck" tactics are making women afraid for no reason. I mean, you choose your doctor, and if you ask some basic questions it's pretty easy to tell if they'll be supportive to a natural birth or not.

Amen.

Want a personalized experience?

The Business of Being Born - Thoughts?

Re: The Business of Being Born - Thoughts?

Choose Another Board

Search Boards