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March 2013 Moms
egb+jaf
member
judgemental mommies (rant-ish)
egb+jaf
member
i lurk around on other boards a lot and i have to say it amazes me how judgmental some can be of others. dont get me wrong, i believe everyone is entitled to their opinion but there are just some situations where i read a post or someones response to a post and it oozes of judgement and it really seems like some of these mommies think their judgement will honestly make a stranger over the internet change their views on parenting, etc.
the topic that gets me the most (and the spawn of this rant) is spanking vs "gentle discipline" (i put that in quotes because i believe thats what it would be called but im not 100%, so nothing was meant by it!). there are children that were spanked and turned out fine, and there are children that were spanked and turned into angry, violent, unstable adults.
and on the other side of that coin there are children that weren't spanked and turned out fine, and there are children that weren't spanked and turned into entitled a holes with no sense of consequence.it can go both ways with both disciplining philosophies.
so there. i believe you do what works for your family. i dont think its a cut a dry topic and (here comes my little bit of mommy judgement...) i think those that believe it is have their heads up their butts. rant over. your thoughts?
This discussion has been closed.
Re: judgemental mommies (rant-ish)
DH and I were both spanked as a child - not abused, spanked. We turned out just fine. Actually, I think that we turned out better than some people I know who have no sense of morals and were never spanked let alone disciplined. On the flip side I know some really good people who were never spanked (similar to what you said, however they were disciplined). I feel that everyone has their own opinion on this. AND this is something that each family has to make a decision on.
I think the problem people have over this topic is the difference between being spanked and being beaten. They are two totally separate things yet people are more and more categorizing spanking as beating your child which it most definitely is not if you do it properly. My parents never hit us WAY to hard that it would be categorized as beating and they always spoke to us before and after as to why they were doing it. I also got smacked in the face a couple of times as a teenager ? but TOTALLY deserved it (called mom a ***)!
I feel bad for my parents during my childhood & teenage years but everything they did made me into the person I am today. My mom always tells me that she was worried about me for a while but that she is proud of who I turned into as a woman.
Whether someone chooses to spank or not totally depends on the family BUT I believe that some type of discipline should be used and saying no is necessary at times too. Again, that is just my two cents? everyone has their own opinion J
I was spanked as a child, but my German parents put me into line so early in life that I do not even remember being spanked. If I did something wrong they had already instilled the fear of God in me so they never had to resort to physical punishment to teach me a lesson later on. My brother took a little longer to get the message, but we both turned out fine with that form of discipline.
DH's parents used a wooden spoon or a belt on him (he also turned out fine). However using an object is something I am not comfortable with as a form of punishment for our LO, so we have already discussed that this will not be a method we use. Also important to talk to LO afterwards and communicate feelings from both parties.
My brother and I were spanked as children. And Lord knows we deserved it more often than we got it! My husband and his brother were borderline abused by their alcoholic father, but their sister was not touched. Now, as adults my husband and I both have a healthy respect for physical discipline. Our 6 year old son is an extremely well behaved, well mannered and well adjusted child. He was spanked occasionally. Now, he hardly needs any correction, be it verbal or physical. My BIL is overly aggressive with his step-sons and nieces/nephew. And my SIL has totally let her girls take over. Out of the 5 grandchildren my In-laws have, I, and everyone else, will tell you that my son is the best mannered and behaved. Im not saying that is only because he got his butt whacked a few times, but look at the ones that didnt....
I was one of those kids whose mom often crossed the line between "Spanking" and overly physical discipline, and I turned out fine......whereas my half brothers and sisters(different mom) were never spanked and are some of the most entitled brats i've ever met
My husband and I recently just had this discussion. we both agreed that spanking will be reserved in situations that are dangerous, such as running into the street or jumping up on tables and it will stop after a certain age. As far as discipline for non dangerous misbehavior, I don't feel that spanking is appropriate and would rather use other means of discipline for those. I think this comes from my personal history though, and how I often got physically disciplined due to my mothers anger/frustrations and not due to particular misbehavior on my part.
Well, I originally didn't give it much thought. It was just what people did, right? But the more I read, the more I thought about it.
I realized that teaching a child to hit when frustrated is not the route we want to go. Right now DD (almost 3) is testing us and will come over and say "hit" and give a light swipe out of nowhere. It's completely a control thing and sometimes not even out of anger. There are other times she swipes when she's mad.
I can't imagine telling her "no, we don't hit people even when we're angry" and then DOING the same exact thing. How does that make sense? Kids don't necessarily learn from our words, but from our actions.
Holy he!!, it's hard to have a stubborn, hard headed toddler. And there are times when I'm completely exasperated, but those are the times when I need to model good anger management for my kid. Not hit out of desperation.
Just because people did it and kids turned out okay doesn't mean it's right. I didn't ride in a car seat in the 70s and I'm (obviously) here to talk about. Doesn't mean we don't know better now.
And what's worse is the stupidass things floating around FB basically saying "kids suck today because parents don't spank their kids". It's more amusing when NON parents post it and it makes my eyes roll out of my head.
BFP(4) DD2 born 2.14.13 @ 35w5d due to pPROM
I couldnt agree more with the bolded. I dont know how we got lucky enough to NOT go thru this phase with DS (who is 6 now). He only ever struck out at us one time. And our response was wall-time. We didnt react to him getting physical with us getting physical. As a PP said, the only times in the past he was spanked was for dangerous actions. I.E he ran into the street/parking lot. He unbuckled his seatbelt and climbed around the car. Most recently, he got 2 swipes last week for lying. I dont agree with physical actions for most childhood punishments.
I totally agree with this.
But I want to add - when I first was put in daycare, my mom found out I was biting other children. So she took me home and gave me a decent enough bite on my arm that made me never bite anyone ever again. Sometimes little kids need to learn why we don't do certain things to other people!
A lot of the articles about spanking verses not spanking say its not a good idea before age one. In terms of one method of discipline over another, there is likely a time and place for everything and the trick is to be wise in application of discipline instead of just emotion.
Just my personal opinion though.
I don't think that's right, and I wouldn't do it. I don't think a toddler has the ability to put together those 2 things, especially hours later. Just because it makes sense to us doesn't mean a toddler will 'get' the connection. But whatever, I'm not super judgy about it, it just doesn't make sense to me. Andplusalso, I would never bite my child.
BFP(4) DD2 born 2.14.13 @ 35w5d due to pPROM
But I want to add - when I first was put in daycare, my mom found out I was biting other children. So she took me home and gave me a decent enough bite on my arm that made me never bite anyone ever again. Sometimes little kids need to learn why we don't do certain things to other people!
Wow...I would never bite my child! BUT...the first (and last!) time my son ever bit me, my instant reaction was to pop him lightly in the mouth. He NEVER bit anyone after that.
If it is to be used as a corrective measure though, it can't be borne out of anger or fear because that sets a bad example and undermines your parental principle.
In my opinion, you have to let your kid know what he or she has done to earn that spanking.
You know, not whack, "Don't do that you scared me." But rather, "You know not to run out in the street, but you did it anyway. A car will run over you. You are getting this spanking to help you remember that." whack
It was hard to be mad at Mom or Dad when I understood what I had done to earn my stinging butt cheeks.
If you know you may lose control when you're angry... You shouldn't spank to prevent yourself from crossing the line.
DS1 -6/25/11
DS2 -3/23/13
Missed MC D&C 8/26/14
DD - 8/26/15
LO#4 due 5/30/17
If there is ever any fear of losing control physically with children, there is an issue.
Disciplining a kid who can remember is different than a toddler.
My example was that my toddler (not even 3) cannot make the connection between things hours later, which I'm sure is proven in a study somewhere.
I was spanked maybe a handful of times and don't think it was terrible. It was also in those situations that you described, but there are MANY people who use it on a much more frequent basis and that is what I'm talking about.
I don't side eye it as much with an older kid, but hitting a preschooler or younger is unacceptable in my eyes.
(sorry so abrupt, my toddler is whiny)
BFP(4) DD2 born 2.14.13 @ 35w5d due to pPROM
You are right, they can not normally make the connection on why they are being spanked or otherwise diciplined for things down hours earlier...honestly, I would view disciplining a child, before the age of 3, at 6 pm for something done at 4 pm as mildly abusive if not out right abuvise. If you are going to inact the discipline on a child under 3, no matter what form you choose to handle your child with, it needs to be immediate, because they will not otherwise make the connection. And truthfully I hate to make this comparision but it is almost like when you train a puppy if you don't deal with it right then they will have no idea why they are in trouble and that is less than a 15minute window. I have worked with children under 3, if it isn't dealt with right then they will look at you like you a crazy if you try later. When I worked child care in a daycare setting if a child under 3 (the ages I worked with were newborn to 24months and sometimes all the way up t 6 years and all in between if needed), did something that was not acceptable, we would handle it in a gentle loving manner, such as removing them from where they were and telling them no firmly and placing them in time out for 1 minute if they were one and so on up the age scale...then would then get them and express love and gentlness to them (the same person that disciplined them). When the parent picked the child up, we let them know what happened and that it was taken care of at the time of action, this way the parent knew to watch for the behavior so they aren't surprised later and are ready.
The spanking debate is generally one I like to stay out of. Personally, we don't plan on using spanking, although I will say that with my nephew, I've swatted hands that were reaching for something dangerous after being told not to.
Mostly I like to stay out of it because I am a FTM so the experience I have with children have been while I've been working in daycares, babysitting, and employed as a private nanny and I realize that children behave vastly different under the eye of a caretaker than they do at home with their parents. I've never had to spank children that I was watching, but it could just be that they were better behaved for me in general because they were away from their comfort zone of home and I was unquestionably an authority figure.
I'd like to avoid spanking just because I am one of those kids that were abused. My dad didn't spank for discipline, my mom did for the worst offenses and it was truly spanking and not abuse. However, my stepmother would beat me, left bruises, marks, and engaged in a lot of psychological abuse as well. I understand the difference between my mom's discipline and my stepmom's abuse, and recognize that a lot of the problems I have are purely to do with the abuse and not the spanking. However, I will say that when I lose my temper at DH, sometimes I slap him, and when I was younger I fought a lot. Is my quickness to strike out from the abuse as well, or is it from spanking in general? It's hard to tell, too hard to speculate.
I do however, remember a great deal of difference in the way that I approached my parents with things I thought would land me in trouble. I felt absolute terror and anxiety about talking to my stepmom about anything, but out of my dad or mom, I was still more likely to go to my dad. My dad's punishment philosophy was that the punishment should fit the crime. My brother and I put a hole in the wall fighting over an argument? We lost out on anything fun that Saturday and had to spend the day learning to patch the wall with my dad, sweep the garage, weed the garden, and in our spare time we were "allowed" to read Home and Garden magazine for a better appreciation of homeownership and taking care of ***. Ha ha. There were always consequences, but they made sense, and I can assure that we were all just as well behaved in public for my dad as we were for my mom or my stepmom.
In the end, I absolutely don't judge my friends with children who choose to spank, because as I've said there is a difference between spanking and abuse. It always makes me sad to hear stories of kids who have been taken away from their parents because the parents spanked in public and someone freaked out about it. Why take a kid from a loving family into an already overburdened system when there are children out there who are truly abused and hurting? It's one of those debates that I wish people didn't feel so passionately about because the judgement on parents who choose to spank should really be focused on those parents that are actually unfit to care for children.
My pregnancy blog
my sister was a biter too, but instead of my mom biting her she had her bite herself so she knew exactly what she was doing to others. It worked.
I don't think the problem is spanking or not spanking. I think there is just no discipline at all. Parents just give in to their children because it's easier. Maybe spanking isn't right for everyone, but you have to do SOMETHING.
this. im not saying theres not a difference in age appropriate disciplines, however, i will say there were plenty of times as a small child and a bigger kid i saw my mom/dad get mad and they didnt hit, so i knew whenever i was spanked it wasnt out of the anger that they may have been feeling therefore i never connected spanking=angry. it was always spanking=i effed up pretty bad.
kids are a lot smarter than we give them credit for and sometimes i believe when parents say the child "doesnt/didnt understand" what they were doing or their actions, all parents are doing is giving into the instinctual reflex to defend our kids no matter what and removing some responsibility from their shoulders.
its funny, when youre showing someone that picture your kid drew and saying how smart and observant they are to have noticed that the shutters ARE blue/ mommy DOES park her car on the street instead of the garage/whatever it may be; people talk about their children like they very well may be the next einstein. BUT when your child bites/takes another childs toy/whatever whatever they're just "still learning how to share" "learning how to play nice/be socialized" etc etc. this is all just my opinion though!
not saying that i dont get it, we all want to believe the very best of our children, not the worst and if we havent all been guilty of it, we will be before long the older these march '13 babies get. but i do believe that its our duty as parents to see both sides of the street, no matter which one youre standing on.
no matter what side you ladies have said you supported, the important thing is that everyone had their own good reasons and sees that its a family to family decision, not a broad yes or no. good for you, ladies :]
Took the words out of my mouth! Well said!
Perhaps this is not what you intended but I read your statements as if spanking =hitting because you are angry at your child (i.e. kid hits out of anger, so parent hits child back out of anger.) That is what I take from you saying that "it is the exact same thing."
Here are my 2 cents: If you are using physical discipline on your child because you are angry, then you absolutely should not be using physical discipline. If that is your tendency, then perhaps for you and your family there needs to be another form of discipline. At all times when using physical discipline, you should have a clear head and should explain to your child why they are being spanked (and be clear that you are not doing it out of anger).
Preemie ID DDs; then DS; then natural M/C; now due 10/17
High risk for pre-term: weekly Makena injections
Basically all of this, right down to my crazy aunt who has those FB pics posted constantly.
It's not okay to hit your spouse, why is it okay to hit your child? But besides that, I really hate the "we did it and turned out okay" argument. There are plenty of things my parents did with me because it was NBD then, but I wouldn't dream of doing it to my kid (car seats, sleeping on your belly, etc.)
My oldest is 4.5 and we choose not to spank her. I always laugh at those who try to challenge me on that. I don't question anyone and how they raise their children so why should anyone try and influence their choices on my family? We put my daughter in a time out chair and it absolutely drives her insane. I truly believe every child is different and it would not work for me to spank. Now this is not to say down the line I won't have to do it, but for now time out chair is working great!
PS. yes I find some moms on here to be preachy which has caused me to lurk more post less.