lurker/mini-intro and a Q?

BzeetyD · January 2013

Hey all you sessy ladies -

I'm BzeetyD, known somewhat in some parts around here. Mister D and I are pursuing our final (and 4th) IVF and our last totally bio chance right now with C.CRM and CCS testing.

We're still unexplained and have had nearly every test under the sun but have a history o repeat pregnancy loss (4). We recently found out that Mister D has a high (about half) fragmentation rate which is likely contributing to our RPL.

Because we're not sure exactly what the problem is we're looking ahead at some options that include DE, DS, both???, or domestic infant adoption (DIA). I have major reservations about DIA that mostly surround in-utero type things like diet, drug and alcohol use which is why some kind of donor element(s) is more interesting to me.

My question is this: Is anyone doing both DE and DS?

If so, can you tell me how that works, generally and such? I imagine it happens but I haven't heard of it, that I know of.

Thanks and XOXO to all the beautious womens that I know on this board.

melkel559 · January 2013

Hi Bzeety!

It's always lovely to "see" you!! I saw a post earlier by 2mamazinseattle and I think she used DE/DS so maybe PM her?

I am wishing you the absolute best of luck though on IVF #4 and hope you don't need to even go that route. GL!!!!

BzeetyD · January 2013

melkel559:
Hi Bzeety!
It's always lovely to "see" you!! I saw a post earlier by 2mamazinseattle and I think she used DE/DS so maybe PM her?
I am wishing you the absolute best of luck though on IVF #4 and hope you don't need to even go that route. GL!!!!

Hey good to "see" you too! Thanks! I did just read her story below. I'm going to stalk her blog in a friendly manner and definitely see what she has to say.

Km672 · January 2013

Hey lady,
Yes, DH and I plan on doing a fresh DE/DS cycle later this year. Adoption is just not right for us and it has taken us a lot of time and soul searching to get to this point. We still have a vial of Dsperm from our previous attempts and will be choosing an egg donor later this year. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

BzeetyD · January 2013

Km672:
Hey lady, Yes, DH and I plan on doing a fresh DE/DS cycle later this year. Adoption is just not right for us and it has taken us a lot of time and soul searching to get to this point. We still have a vial of Dsperm from our previous attempts and will be choosing an egg donor later this year. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

Thanks so much for your response! Interested to hear about the process and I'll be following your story.

Yes there's a lot of soul searching and re-searching that I've been doing too.

Do you know when you're wanting to move ahead/cycle?

Thanks again!

Km672 · January 2013

Hey,

Hoping our story has a happy ending!!

Original plan was DE with half DH's sperm, half DS. Because DH's last SA unexpectedly revealed zero sperm, we are waiting a couple more weeks for a repeat SA. DH is on meds, but given his high fragmentation and obstruction, we are in agreement with his Uro that if this next SA doesn't show significant improvement we will do all DS.

I also need updated breast screening to be done in February or March, due to my strong family history.

I'm hoping that we can choose our donor and start the process in March. They told us it would be around 3 to 4 months after we choose a donor. We would be very excited to cycle this summer!!
You must have more questions, what else?

BzeetyD · January 2013

Km672:
Hey, Hoping our story has a happy ending!! Original plan was DE with half DH's sperm, half DS. Because DH's last SA unexpectedly revealed zero sperm, we are waiting a couple more weeks for a repeat SA. DH is on meds, but given his high fragmentation and obstruction, we are in agreement with his Uro that if this next SA doesn't show significant improvement we will do all DS. I also need updated breast screening to be done in February or March, due to my strong family history. I'm hoping that we can choose our donor and start the process in March. They told us it would be around 3 to 4 months after we choose a donor. We would be very excited to cycle this summer!! You must have more questions, what else?

I suppose a big question I have is:

Obviously you and your DH and me and my DH have been through a TON of testing through our journey, going even over and above usual kinds of ART stuff - we're like hardcore ART peeps.

How does one attempt to prevent DE and/or DS or the combo of both (all of whom, I presume, have not had testing like karyotyping, SPA, SCSA etc...) from having those issues?

Another factor for us is that we want known donors, in that we're seeking out donors who at the very least would allow any child resulting from their egg or sperm to contact them at the age of 18. It makes for a smaller pool to choose from and I've only looked into DE in this regard, not DS.

Km672 · January 2013

Hey again,
I'm not sure how much of the issues we can avoid, but we are going with only proven donors. Like you said, we have been through a lot of testing and know we can not take things at face value. I'm hoping with the combination of 2 proven donors, it will give us a better chance. It is definitely more expensive to use a proven egg donor, but we only have 1 shot at this type of attempt so we need to know we did everything we could. We know there are no guarantees, but I'm thinking this should put the odds in our favor.

We totally agree, it is really important to find 2 donors who would be willing to be known to our children when they are 18, if they wish to contact their donors. Wasn't so hard to find a sperm donor who met our qualifications, but I've been looking through the egg donor sites and it is more difficult. If I have to give up a physical trait or something else that was really appealing in a donor, I am prepared to do that to have this option for our children.

BzeetyD · January 2013

Km672:
Hey again, I'm not sure how much of the issues we can avoid, but we are going with only proven donors. Like you said, we have been through a lot of testing and know we can not take things at face value. I'm hoping with the combination of 2 proven donors, it will give us a better chance. It is definitely more expensive to use a proven egg donor, but we only have 1 shot at this type of attempt so we need to know we did everything we could. We know there are no guarantees, but I'm thinking this should put the odds in our favor. We totally agree, it is really important to find 2 donors who would be willing to be known to our children when they are 18, if they wish to contact their donors. Wasn't so hard to find a sperm donor who met our qualifications, but I've been looking through the egg donor sites and it is more difficult. If I have to give up a physical trait or something else that was really appealing in a donor, I am prepared to do that to have this option for our children.

Very cool. Thanks so much. I agree about giving up physical traits. Actually that's the thing I'm least concerned about. I have other traits that are more important to me (artistic/creative things) about me.

Also want to say that I do not have an issue with others choosing anonymous donors, and can very clearly see the merits and reasoning behind that. It just isn't the right move for us, personally.

I don't know if I have any more questions right now. It really helps to know there are others going through it and thinking along the same lines as we are. I'm interested to see how your journey unfolds and will be cheering you on wholeheartedly! Smile

BzeetyD · January 2013

Also wanted to add that I've found a number of DE donors who are willing to be contacted, or have an open, or known DE situation. I think when you start looking, narrow your search to only that, you'll find some gems.

Km672 · January 2013

You're absolutely right, known or unknown donors is a very personal decision. There are pros and cons to both options that may or may not work for different families.

I was only speaking for my DH and myself. This is something we've really struggled with and haven't committed to this decision yet. Right now, this is what we are most comfortable with.

Didn't mean to offend or disrespect anyone's choices.

hootie123 · January 2013

I have an IRL friend that is went the DE/DS route - only because she is single and was using DS all along and then moved onto DE once she realized she couldn't get pregnant with her own eggs. Now she can't get pregnant with the donor embryos either so obviously something else is wrong.

We are in the situation where we are going to use DS for your next cycle (with my eggs) and if that doesn't work we will move ont DE/DS or adopted embryos. From my research you can go about it three ways - either find an egg donor and sperm donor that you like and move forward that way. Or go through one of the embryo adoption groups and try to find some leftever embryos from someones cycle to use. Or go to someplace like California Con.ceptions that basically use donor eggs and donor sperm and create embryos for you to transfer (but you don't pick out the donors). There are pros and cons to each of these options. The advantage of picking out your own egg and sperm donor gives you the most control if there are certain aspects of a donor that you want. And you would hopefully end up with frozen embryos for siblings. But it is also the most costly. The adoption route is less costly - however the quality of the embryos varies so much clinic to clinic I would only do this if I found some that were high quality blasts and had enough to use for siblings. (From my little bit of reasearch online some people had frozen day 3 embyros and I just won't risk that). I like the option of CC in that they have a refund program - but you don't has as much control over the donors and you don't get any frozen (which means if you want siblings they won't be genetically related).

Sorry for the novel but I am also the same way - I need to have my next plan in place if this one doesn't work.

Km672 · January 2013

I have found everything Hootie stated to be true. There are a lot of ways to do DE/DS and it's good to know and explore all the options!

And I agree, I need to plan ahead and be prepared for every scenario BEFORE they play out, it's what keeps me going!!

JM1977 · January 2013

We used both DE/DS, and I'd be happy to share about our journey. I never had any implantation problems or losses, so we are a little different. Our problems were just really poor egg and sperm quality. We cycled at CCRM with my OE and my DH's sperm, and we are one of the unlucky minority who did not have success there (especially in my age range - 31 at the time). My eggs were just really crappy, and we only have 1 fertilize on day 1.

We (and our doctors) really thought the problem was mostly my eggs, so then we moved onto DE, We chose to cycle at Shady Grove because of their in-house donor pool and their Shared Risk program. We were looking for an anonymous donor, so that worked well for us. We were in the 1:2 split cycle program, and we got a good amount of high quality eggs for our first cycle (~15) but then only 2 fertilized. At that point they recommended DS, too, so we went that route. We used California Cryobank which is what SG recommended. We were happy with them, and fortunately we felt like we found a donor who really fit what we were looking for. We felt the same way about our egg donor, so that was a great feeling. Some of the donors at California Cryobank are not completely anonymous, but we chose one who was. We were successful on our first DE/DS cycle and had 2 frozen embryos.

I really think CCRM is going to help in figuring out what part of your problem has been embryo quality vs. implantation. For us it just ended up being trial and error until we got a good embryo to transfer. It also took a while to process how BOTH of us could have such severe problems, but once we came to peace with that we felt ready to move on.

In addition to DE/DS like we did, there is the dual donor program at California Conceptions where they have egg donors and sperm donors and make up profiles of the two donors and then produce embryos from those donors which are then transferred. It's a much less expensive option than getting an egg donor and sperm donor independently. And then there's also the option of embryo adoption, although that generally gives you much less choice in medical history, characteristics, etc.

I will say that DE/DS has been an amazing experience for us. Our daughter is beyond anything we could have hoped for, and we are so thankful that we had these options available. I really do feel like I am biologically related to her even though we are not genetically related. After carrying her during the pregnancy and breastfeeding, I feel a really strong bond there. Although that bond is without a doubt there in adoption as well, I am glad I got to go through the physical part of it. And it was meaningful to me to be able to control the prenatal environment since I didn't have any control over my inability to conceive with my own eggs.

I wish you all the best moving forward! You are in good hands at CCRM!

BzeetyD · January 2013

JM1977:
We used both DE/DS, and I'd be happy to share about our journey. I never had any implantation problems or losses, so we are a little different. Our problems were just really poor egg and sperm quality. We cycled at CCRM with my OE and my DH's sperm, and we are one of the unlucky minority who did not have success there (especially in my age range - 31 at the time). My eggs were just really crappy, and we only have 1 fertilize on day 1.
We (and our doctors) really thought the problem was mostly my eggs, so then we moved onto DE, We chose to cycle at Shady Grove because of their in-house donor pool and their Shared Risk program. We were looking for an anonymous donor, so that worked well for us. We were in the 1:2 split cycle program, and we got a good amount of high quality eggs for our first cycle (~15) but then only 2 fertilized. At that point they recommended DS, too, so we went that route. We used California Cryobank which is what SG recommended. We were happy with them, and fortunately we felt like we found a donor who really fit what we were looking for. We felt the same way about our egg donor, so that was a great feeling. Some of the donors at California Cryobank are not completely anonymous, but we chose one who was. We were successful on our first DE/DS cycle and had 2 frozen embryos.
I really think CCRM is going to help in figuring out what part of your problem has been embryo quality vs. implantation. For us it just ended up being trial and error until we got a good embryo to transfer. It also took a while to process how BOTH of us could have such severe problems, but once we came to peace with that we felt ready to move on.
In addition to DE/DS like we did, there is the dual donor program at California Conceptions where they have egg donors and sperm donors and make up profiles of the two donors and then produce embryos from those donors which are then transferred. It's a much less expensive option than getting an egg donor and sperm donor independently. And then there's also the option of embryo adoption, although that generally gives you much less choice in medical history, characteristics, etc.
I will say that DE/DS has been an amazing experience for us. Our daughter is beyond anything we could have hoped for, and we are so thankful that we had these options available. I really do feel like I am biologically related to her even though we are not genetically related. After carrying her during the pregnancy and breastfeeding, I feel a really strong bond there. Although that bond is without a doubt there in adoption as well, I am glad I got to go through the physical part of it. And it was meaningful to me to be able to control the prenatal environment since I didn't have any control over my inability to conceive with my own eggs.
I wish you all the best moving forward! You are in good hands at CCRM!

Wow. Thanks for all the great info and encouragement. Really detailed and interesting. I appreciate it.

It sounds like it was a long road to get to your beautiful daughter but well worth it. I can definitely relate.

Will you try for a sibling or do you feel your family is complete?

JM1977 · January 2013

I'm glad I could be helpful to you! I am happy to support you in your journey!

We just did an FET on the 21st (another single embryo transfer) and I got a faint BFP this morning, so hopefully we will be welcoming a sibling (2 will be it for us!)

BzeetyD · January 2013

JM1977:
I'm glad I could be helpful to you! I am happy to support you in your journey!
We just did an FET on the 21st (another single embryo transfer) and I got a faint BFP this morning, so hopefully we will be welcoming a sibling (2 will be it for us!)

Oh my gosh! Congratulations! I hope everything continues to go well for the next 8 months or so!

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