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Attachment Parenting
5.5mo not sttn, pedi concerned?
So my almost 6 mo little guy does not sleep through the night, which I am ok with; however, my pediatrician was very convicting when mentioning that he should be sttn by now. She stated that if he was still eating in the middle of the night that it was because I trained him to.
He is EBF, though some times he take a bottle of BM because I work full time. Either way, he generally wakes up 2-3 times a night. Generally I will re-position him to help get gas out or snuggle him back to sleep, but often he wants to nurse and he will not go back to sleep without eating. Again, I am ok with this, but my pediatrician insists that I am training him to want to eat at night.
Any experience with this? Is your LO sttn at 6 mo? Do they wake up to eat? Do I need to wean away from this? I am very pro baby led weaning and this just doesn't feel right to me.
(Also posted in the breastfeeding forum).
This discussion has been closed.
Re: 5.5mo not sttn, pedi concerned?
My 2.5yr old (<-- yes, that is 2.5 YEARS old, really more like 2.7 years old) still doesn't sleep through the night. She still nurses once in the night. Yeah, it's more comfort than need, but... hey... wait - we're human, aren't we? We *need* comfort sometimes, you know.
Your ped is spouting a common "line". I find it a stupid one. Human babies did not evolve to sleep through the night (especially away from their parents) before they could even crawl. It's just dumb. It's great that some kids naturally do! But all of them? That's crap.
Babies won't eat unless they're hungry. Even if they're on the boob, and comfort sucking, they will only actually EAT what they need. The rest is a comfort issue. And if you're ok with how things are, and LO is getting enough sleep overall (as determined by health, behavior, etc. NOT as determined by a sleep chart), then I'd ignore the pedi and choose to either ignore parenting advice (which they are not trained in) from him or find a pedi who offers none or advice more in line with what you do.
Elizabeth 5yrs old Jane 3yrs old
To be honest - I don't have too much nice to say about this "concern" of your ped's. It seems grossly developmentally inappropriate and would cause me to rethink if I had found the right ped for my family or not.
If you are comfortable and happy and LO is thriving then you are doing everything is exactly right.
My family is a Foreign Service family. Families like mine are posted in every corner of the globe. We live our lives away from family, friends and the conviences and comforts of home. We often live and work in dangerous places among those that misunderstand our intentions and purposes. Sometimes members of our ranks sacrifice our lives to further diplomacy. Please remember that we serve too. And I'm always open to questions.
My DD is almost 15 months old and is not STTN yet. She usually wakes up 1-2 times, but while teething or sick she wakes up a whole lot more. She usually just quickly comfort nurses and then goes right back to sleep. Sometimes though she will actually eat at night, especially if she is sick and not really eating much during the day.
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)
I assume your pedi sleeps at your house, and that's why s/he's so concerned?
Because otherwise, it's way out of line. My child STTN at 18 months when I was ready to night wean. Not one single time before then. His doctor had no comment on my parenting choice not to force the issue until then.
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This is us as well. We just started sleep training but I am sure it will take awhile. (For clarification not CIO) DD is almost 16 months and still wakes up once or so to nurse. I remember feeling SUPER pressured around 6 months because she wasn't STTN and my nephew and niece were. It's amazing how much totally uncalled for pressure is put on new moms and probably inadvertently babies. If you're comfortable with your sleeping situation then don't worry about what the pedi said. All kids will eventually STTN.
I think it's funny how this board is always so eager to jump on the pedi's are bad bandwagon. I actually appreciate that my pedi asks me questions about that type of stuff. (I also ask him questions about those topics though.)
That said, I agree that if you don't like what your pedi says then you can switch or ignore him. To take his side for a moment, what did he mean by sttn? At 6 months my pedi just wanted to be sure that generally my son was sleeping for one long 5-6 hour stretch, which is the textbook defination of sttn. He said besides that I may want to feed him so he doesn't wake up pissed and hungry.
My son still wakes up once a night to eat. (Plus sometimes another time for snuggles from mom or dad). He's just over 10 months.
(Edited for grammar/spelling. . typing while nursing doesn't always work out so well.)
You're free to ask your pedi parenting advice, pp, but you know that's not really their area of expertise, right?
I like my doctor. She's a great doctor. But she's not a Magic Mom With All The Answers.
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She said that he should be going 8-10 hours without needing to eat, She further explained that if I was continuing to nurse through the night that I was training him to be hungry or want to eat at night. We do mostly co-sleep, so when possible I snuggle, but very often he it's nursing that allows him to fall back asleep. I work full time so the little time I get to spend with him is precious to me and I feel like maybe it's the closeness that he needs and just to know that I am there. Even so, I am ok with this being his need. I am missing my sleep....but I kind of expected this out of parenthood.
This was exactly what I was thinking. This is a parenting issue, not a health issue. Your LO not STTN should be of no concern to your pedi.
I don't think anybody said pedis are bad but rather this pediatrician was speaking from an area that was not his expertise. I think the OP just wanted to know what everyone else had experienced when it came to her issue. Surely any reasonable person would agree that just because a baby isn't STTN at 6 months doesn't mean there is a huge cause for concern.
Doctors area of expertise is children- more on the medical side, yes. But they do encounter a lot of different parents and parenting styles. Just like teachers area of expertise is how to teach children (and here's my soap box as a teacher- don't ignore teacher comments either. We spend all day with your child!)
We ask the ladies on this board advice. What makes them parenting experts? I would imagine that many of you (like me) ask our own parents and friends for advice.
As our parents our job is to take what advice we believe in and agree with and parent in the style we feel best.
OP- (sorry I hijacked your post with that part) If you are happy with the way things are then keep doing it. If not, then know that medically your child is okay to sleep longer periods with out eating. We do "train" our kids. Whether it's that we train them to know that we won't feed them in the middle of the night or we "train" them to know that we will. Kids like routine- if your routine is feeding through-out the night that's totally fine.
DD (the 2.5yr old mentioned above), as she actually *sleeps* from about 9pm to 7pm and often wakes up twice in the night, very, very rarely gets a 5-6 hour stretch. Once to nurse, once to change a diaper (she wakes up and asks me to), means she's getting more like ~3 3hr sessions of sleep. But, you know what, if you look at her behavior, her growth, her everything, she's sufficiently well rested. Oh, yes, I'd like more sleep than that, but this is what we're working with. (I'd add, these aren't "I'm AWAKE and READY TO PLAY" sorts of things that take her half an hour to get back to sleep from, but "barely awake enough" that she may not even remember being awake. Those two types of waking up impact sleep quality differently. Heck, a dream woke her up last night and it took her ~4-5 minutes to get back to sleep. The only reason I knew about it is that we cosleep.
All kids are different!
Yes, we should take advice and do with it as we please. My problem with doctors giving unsolicited parenting advice is that it makes parents feel bad. It makes them worry. And for no reason, as it's not a MEDICAL opinion or advice and it is an abuse of the relationship to pretend that it is.
Another way to frame this is that we TRAIN our babies to know that we are there for them, day or night, to attend to their needs. Or we TRAIN them to know that sometimes no one cares if you cry.
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I totally agree with the bold. I don't understand how Pedi's can give specifically sleep advice when they aren't around the child 24-7. Children are very different. Some sleep well alone, some don't. What makes them qualified to say he/she should be sleeping through the night? Especially when they don't tend to ask a lot of follow up questions. i.e. is he/she reverse cycling, did mom go back to work, is he teething, is he learning new skills.... If all these topics were covered then maybe it would be appropriate to ask and give sleep advice.
I fully listen to my Pedi on all medical advice and know that she is trained in that area and I am not. I appreciate that she does not push an agenda about sleep etc. She says as long as it's working for us then there is not reason to be concerned.
And/plus/also I have 3 other close friends with young babies and none of them STTN. Who are these babies that STTN?
Again, there is no reason for the OP to be concerned that her 5.5 month old baby is waking two times a night. For the pedi to say that there's an issue when there is clearly not, is ridiculous. It is also just as ridiculous to say as a teacher, parents need to take your parenting advice.
I couldn't agree more. DD didn't STTN at 6 months. HeII, she doesn't STTN at 33 months. She's a perfectly normal toddler who has developed completely on track... failing to STTN has definitely not stunted her development in any way.
DD2 8.22.13
MMC 1.4.17 at 16w
Expecting #3, EDD 1.29.18
While in medical school pediatricians receive 0 hours of course work on sleeping, what's normal, what's not, how to help it... 0 hours. If's far from their area of expertise.
As a teacher my entire Master's degree was how to teach kids.
DD2 8.22.13
MMC 1.4.17 at 16w
Expecting #3, EDD 1.29.18
I think it's pretty normal for babies to be up a few times at night. That's what they do. And I don't go with the idea that they should be sleeping 8 solid hours without food. I STILL get up in the MOTN for a drink of water, and I'm 27 years old.
And it's not just this board. She also asked it on the BFing board and received 20+ responses to the same tune.
DD2 8.22.13
MMC 1.4.17 at 16w
Expecting #3, EDD 1.29.18
Neither of my kids STTN (not even the 5 or 6 hour version) at 6 months. DD was 2 years before she did, and still waiting on DS. Come to find out, DH and I were the same way as babies...and my mom considered me a great sleeper in comparison to my brother. My mom was actually shocked by how much the various pediatricians we've seen have stressed the sleep issue and by the sheer quantity of sleep that they say babies need. She's raised three kids who never slept that much and did not suffer in any way developmentally. She told me that I know my kids best and you can't make them sleep more than they need to sleep, regardless of what the charts may say.
People are different. Babies are, too. No way would any offspring of mine sleep 8-10 hours straight at <6 months of age. On the other hand, other babies would totally fall apart if they slept like mine do. Listen to the advice your pedi gives you but also listen to advice from others and ultimately trust your own instincts, because your kids may differ from the "norm."
My DS was definitely not STTN at 5.5 months old. He is 14 months old and once in a while decides to STTN, but not usually.
At our 6 month appt, our pedi said he recommended cutting out the night feedings. (Just a recommendation, not a mandate). I agreed and proceeded with night weaning, which turned out to be incredibly easy and I was happier in the end. DH was able to start helping out with night wakings!!!
So my point is - there is no need to immediately discredit your pedi's advice. You know your kid best. Take her advice, evaluate your child and your preferences, and go from there. GL!
MMC 3.30.16
I don't think anyone said pedis were bad. I just think that pedis need to stick to medicine and leave the parenting to the parents.
To be fair though, I think this speaks volumes to how isolated we are as a society if the only person we can ask about parenting is our child's doctor.
Charlotte Ella 07.16.10
Emmeline Grace 03.27.13
My 13-month-old does not and has never STTN. He wakes up to nurse probably 3-4 times each night. My son's pedi says to keep doing it as long as I'm ok with it. She bed-shared and nursed her son for nearly 2 years. Reading posts like this make me realize what a gem of a doctor she is. It is completely normal for a baby or young child to wake up one or more times at night and need help going back to sleep.
DD 8/28/2014
DD 5/24/2016, stillborn at 40 weeks
Exactly.
I think (and I've voiced this before) that it's ridiculous that anyone would say babies only wake out of habit to eat. It's patently untrue. If that were true, then every single person, across the board, would have a child waking every 2-3 hours at night, since for the first few weeks you're supposed to wake and feed at that interval. Wait, not all children remain eating that often? Guess they're not eating out of habit.
We went through a major sleep regression at 5 months. He was waking every 2-3 hours. And then, he started dropping those feeds. Guess he forgot he was supposed to be hungry out of habit?
By 7/8 months he was only waking once at night, and at all different times - never consistently the same time. He'd eat and be asleep in minutes.
At 14 months, he dropped that last feed. Again, he must have forgotten he was supposed to be waking up and eating. Or (I know, an insane thought) he didn't need it anymore.
And just as a warning, he's been sick/teething the past 3 weeks, so he's waking up at night and asking for "more" (which he uses for milk). When I talked to my doctor about it, he encouraged me to feed him at night because it helps with both the teething and the cold/virus.
A good teacher isn't there to give out parenting advice I agree. But- teachers are with your child much of the day. If they call you because they are concerned, you chould work with them as a team, not disregard what they have to say.
I figured I would ruffle some feathers with my comment. I should have said the bump, not just this board. It just bugs me that when people diagree with the doctor (or whomever) they jump to putting the doctor down and disregarding what the doctor had to say. (The BF board was actually worse than this board.)
I actually agree with what the majority of the bump responses say about sleep. I would not be concerned if I was the OPer (unless I was unhappy with the current sleep situation.) My son doesn't STTN either.
This for us too except recently she has more and more nights that she is STTN., but if she does wake I nurse her and she is out in a few.,there have been a few nights where she wakes up and ells me she doesn't want to go,to sleep anymore and then we nurse and she is back out. It is a lovely thing!
my DD went to waking about once a ight around right around a year to totally regressing and waking 2-3 x a night again for a few months. Even though I would've liked to have had more sleep it was OK.
Do what feels right to you. I still nurse before bedtime, usually not to sleep unless she skipped her nap, but it really settles her down. A lot of people would disagree with this but it works for us.
As far as our pedi, if he/she is fine otherwise I wouldn't change anything. I doesnt necessarily make them a bad pedi. If he or she does not have any kids of their own they are just taught stuff. I know my tune changed on a few things once I had my own kid .
My point was the pediatricians give all this parenting advice not because they think they know everything but because so many parents ask them. I see all the time, "I will do XYZ with my child as soon as I clear it with my pedi." And most often it is not something a pedi needs to clear.
Actually, I think she is a gem because she is encouraging to BFing mothers and can give first-hand advice on the issues BF moms face. There have been times when she has given parenting advice I don't agree with.. in those cases I just ignore.
And for the record, I was just responding to OP.. I'm not trying to be a part the convo about whether one should or shouldn't accept parenting advice from pediatricians. OP asked us if we had experience with babies not STTN or if she needed to night wean, and I gave her my opinion as well as my son's pedi's opinion.
DD 8/28/2014
DD 5/24/2016, stillborn at 40 weeks
Just to be clear, it was unsolicited advice, though either way I appreciate suggestions from my pediatrician regardless. As I stated, the advice felt more of a conviction, like I was being reprimanded which made me feel I was doing something wrong. I just wanted to see how others were handling sleep at this age.
Thank you for all of the advice and responses! Good to know I am not alone