Considering going without an attorney

dmndsr4eva · January 2013

I changed jobs a few months ago and my pay is the same. However under our new mediated visitation schedule my son has to go to daycare full time so I am now paying $250 more a month for that. Also I am 99% sure that BD got a raise this month. He works for the government and they get a standard raise every year usually.

Anyhow, I told him in mediation that with the new numbers he would most likely have increased CS of approx $200 more per month. He challenged me and basically told me he will pay it if a judge tells him to.

So I have not yet done anything about it. However I got a letter from my lawyer Friday stating that BD is asking for my most recent income verification information.

I really can't see myself paying my lawyer another $1500 or so to deal with maybe an extra $200 per month. I really want to call my lawyer and let him know that I will handle this child support piece on my own. I have a friend who has been divorced with two young kids for about 7 years and she has been to court more times than she can count with her ex and she does it all on her own. She has been a wealth of knowlege for me and she has stated she will help me anytime. Also my FI has been to court over the years lots of time regarding business matters so he also has a lot of legal experience. I am thinking I can maybe get by on my own from here on out.

What do you guys think?

Hopeforthebest · January 2013

I think if at all financially possible, it would behoove you to use counsel. Especially in your case with the difficulties. Attys have a way of leaving the emotion out of the argument and proposals.

"He who represents himself has a fool for a client."
- Abraham Lincoln

ldmessing · January 2013

I think it is a really bad idea.

mrslucid · January 2013

Hopeforthebest:
I think if at all financially possible, it would behoove you to use counsel. Especially in your case with the difficulties. Attys have a way of leaving the emotion out of the argument and proposals.

"He who represents himself has a fool for a client."
- Abraham Lincoln

Good advice. Also, government employees did not get a raise this year. I am a federal employee and we did not get a cost of living increase last year or this year. Only raise has come at my anniversary start date which is a grade/step increase.

dmndsr4eva · January 2013

Hopeforthebest:
I think if at all financially possible, it would behoove you to use counsel. Especially in your case with the difficulties. Attys have a way of leaving the emotion out of the argument and proposals.

"He who represents himself has a fool for a client."
- Abraham Lincoln

I'm not really sure that I would agree with this when it comes to child support. I would imagine there are a large number of people who get child support or pay child support who do not have attys. Regarding child support the numbers are the numbers. You take each parents income and daycare expenses plug them into the worksheet and then you have the amount. It is not rocket science?

Littlejen22 · January 2013

mrslucid:
Hopeforthebest:
I think if at all financially possible, it would behoove you to use counsel. Especially in your case with the difficulties. Attys have a way of leaving the emotion out of the argument and proposals.

"He who represents himself has a fool for a client."
- Abraham Lincoln

Good advice. Also, government employees did not get a raise this year. I am a federal employee and we did not get a cost of living increase last year or this year. Only raise has come at my anniversary start date which is a grade/step increase.

I agree with the above. And every situation is different, your ex is setting you up to likely go for custody so you can put yourself in a bad situation.

I am confused about fulltime daycare, what were you doing before and what would you do if this was not courtordered?

dmndsr4eva · January 2013

Littlejen22:
mrslucid:
Hopeforthebest:
I think if at all financially possible, it would behoove you to use counsel. Especially in your case with the difficulties. Attys have a way of leaving the emotion out of the argument and proposals.

"He who represents himself has a fool for a client."
- Abraham Lincoln
Good advice. Also, government employees did not get a raise this year. I am a federal employee and we did not get a cost of living increase last year or this year. Only raise has come at my anniversary start date which is a grade/step increase.
I agree with the above. And every situation is different, your ex is setting you up to likely go for custody so you can put yourself in a bad situation. I am confused about fulltime daycare, what were you doing before and what would you do if this was not courtordered?

My son used to be with BD every Weds. and every other Fri. and I had a family member watch him for free two Fridays a month. On the new schedule DS is in daycare 5 days a week with me and then with BD or his parents 4 weekdays a month. But I still have to pay for his spot even on those 4 days he is not at the preschool.

jenjen930 · January 2013

I helped my DH get his CS modified a few years ago in Indiana. They have a set calculator that they use. Even the judge said it pretty much is what it is. BM paid her lawyer to help her but we were successful. If your state does a handy calculator too you might be able to pull it off. Just make sure you research thoroughly before filing. Make sure you are even eligible for a modification. There could be some qualifications on that.

Also, daycare should totally be something he is helping with. It is actually a part of the calculator in Indiana.

dmndsr4eva · January 2013

MelRC117:
dmndsr4eva:
Littlejen22:
mrslucid:
Hopeforthebest:
I think if at all financially possible, it would behoove you to use counsel. Especially in your case with the difficulties. Attys have a way of leaving the emotion out of the argument and proposals.

"He who represents himself has a fool for a client."
- Abraham Lincoln
Good advice. Also, government employees did not get a raise this year. I am a federal employee and we did not get a cost of living increase last year or this year. Only raise has come at my anniversary start date which is a grade/step increase.
I agree with the above. And every situation is different, your ex is setting you up to likely go for custody so you can put yourself in a bad situation. I am confused about fulltime daycare, what were you doing before and what would you do if this was not courtordered?
My son used to be with BD every Weds. and every other Fri. and I had a family member watch him for free two Fridays a month. On the new schedule DS is in daycare 5 days a week with me and then with BD or his parents 4 weekdays a month. But I still have to pay for his spot even on those 4 days he is not at the preschool.
Im also a government employee and due to the economy I haven't heard of government employees that I know getting raises. If anything it would be only a very, very small amount.
As far as the one day a week you pay that he isn't there, by the time you break it down whether you pay the full time chunk or hour by hour...full time probably is only slightly more. Part time child care is not a huge savings compared to full time. CS you receive helps pay for daycare.

Last year he recieved a 4% increase. But even without an increase for him since I am paying $250 more a month for daycare it would increase his child support amount. I have already calculated it on my states child support worksheet. Anyhow. I am really not that worried about it which is really the reason I am not wanting to pay my lawyer $1500 over the ordeal.

cole2144 · January 2013

MelRC117:
dmndsr4eva:
Littlejen22:
mrslucid:
Hopeforthebest:
I think if at all financially possible, it would behoove you to use counsel. Especially in your case with the difficulties. Attys have a way of leaving the emotion out of the argument and proposals.

"He who represents himself has a fool for a client."
- Abraham Lincoln
Good advice. Also, government employees did not get a raise this year. I am a federal employee and we did not get a cost of living increase last year or this year. Only raise has come at my anniversary start date which is a grade/step increase.
I agree with the above. And every situation is different, your ex is setting you up to likely go for custody so you can put yourself in a bad situation. I am confused about fulltime daycare, what were you doing before and what would you do if this was not courtordered?
My son used to be with BD every Weds. and every other Fri. and I had a family member watch him for free two Fridays a month. On the new schedule DS is in daycare 5 days a week with me and then with BD or his parents 4 weekdays a month. But I still have to pay for his spot even on those 4 days he is not at the preschool.
Im also a government employee and due to the economy I haven't heard of government employees that I know getting raises. If anything it would be only a very, very small amount.
As far as the one day a week you pay that he isn't there, by the time you break it down whether you pay the full time chunk or hour by hour...full time probably is only slightly more. Part time child care is not a huge savings compared to full time. CS you receive helps pay for daycare.

This! Unless the judge decides BD is not responsible for daycare costs which I can not see happening, then CS covers childcare costs.

dmndsr4eva · January 2013

MelRC117:
dmndsr4eva:
Hopeforthebest:
I think if at all financially possible, it would behoove you to use counsel. Especially in your case with the difficulties. Attys have a way of leaving the emotion out of the argument and proposals.

"He who represents himself has a fool for a client."
- Abraham Lincoln
I'm not really sure that I would agree with this when it comes to child support. I would imagine there are a large number of people who get child support or pay child support who do not have attys. Regarding child support the numbers are the numbers. You take each parents income and daycare expenses plug them into the worksheet and then you have the amount. It is not rocket science?
You asked. People answered. If you are only looking for success stories with people not using a lawyer you can get them, but you really never know.

I am paying $250 more a month in daycare. That is a fact. My DS went from 3 full days of daycare a week to 5 days of daycare. I'm confused about why you keep saying you don't think there is a big cost difference?

cole2144 · January 2013

dmndsr4eva:
MelRC117:
dmndsr4eva:
Hopeforthebest:
I think if at all financially possible, it would behoove you to use counsel. Especially in your case with the difficulties. Attys have a way of leaving the emotion out of the argument and proposals.

"He who represents himself has a fool for a client."
- Abraham Lincoln
I'm not really sure that I would agree with this when it comes to child support. I would imagine there are a large number of people who get child support or pay child support who do not have attys. Regarding child support the numbers are the numbers. You take each parents income and daycare expenses plug them into the worksheet and then you have the amount. It is not rocket science?
You asked. People answered. If you are only looking for success stories with people not using a lawyer you can get them, but you really never know.
I am paying $250 more a month in daycare. That is a fact. My DS went from 3 full days of daycare a week to 5 days of daycare. I'm confused about why you keep saying you don't think there is a big cost difference?

You and BD are paying is what you meant.

dmndsr4eva · January 2013

cole2144:
MelRC117:
dmndsr4eva:
Littlejen22:
mrslucid:
Hopeforthebest:
I think if at all financially possible, it would behoove you to use counsel. Especially in your case with the difficulties. Attys have a way of leaving the emotion out of the argument and proposals.

"He who represents himself has a fool for a client."
- Abraham Lincoln
Good advice. Also, government employees did not get a raise this year. I am a federal employee and we did not get a cost of living increase last year or this year. Only raise has come at my anniversary start date which is a grade/step increase.
I agree with the above. And every situation is different, your ex is setting you up to likely go for custody so you can put yourself in a bad situation. I am confused about fulltime daycare, what were you doing before and what would you do if this was not courtordered?
My son used to be with BD every Weds. and every other Fri. and I had a family member watch him for free two Fridays a month. On the new schedule DS is in daycare 5 days a week with me and then with BD or his parents 4 weekdays a month. But I still have to pay for his spot even on those 4 days he is not at the preschool.
Im also a government employee and due to the economy I haven't heard of government employees that I know getting raises. If anything it would be only a very, very small amount.
As far as the one day a week you pay that he isn't there, by the time you break it down whether you pay the full time chunk or hour by hour...full time probably is only slightly more. Part time child care is not a huge savings compared to full time. CS you receive helps pay for daycare.
This! Unless the judge decides BD is not responsible for daycare costs which I can not see happening, then CS covers childcare costs.

In my state childcare for work is part of the calculation. That is why my increase of cost of $250 leads to approx a $200 increase in his child support. The childcare is a huge part of the calcultion in my state.

cole2144 · January 2013

dmndsr4eva:
cole2144:
MelRC117:
dmndsr4eva:
Littlejen22:
mrslucid:
Hopeforthebest:
I think if at all financially possible, it would behoove you to use counsel. Especially in your case with the difficulties. Attys have a way of leaving the emotion out of the argument and proposals.

"He who represents himself has a fool for a client."
- Abraham Lincoln
Good advice. Also, government employees did not get a raise this year. I am a federal employee and we did not get a cost of living increase last year or this year. Only raise has come at my anniversary start date which is a grade/step increase.
I agree with the above. And every situation is different, your ex is setting you up to likely go for custody so you can put yourself in a bad situation. I am confused about fulltime daycare, what were you doing before and what would you do if this was not courtordered?
My son used to be with BD every Weds. and every other Fri. and I had a family member watch him for free two Fridays a month. On the new schedule DS is in daycare 5 days a week with me and then with BD or his parents 4 weekdays a month. But I still have to pay for his spot even on those 4 days he is not at the preschool.
Im also a government employee and due to the economy I haven't heard of government employees that I know getting raises. If anything it would be only a very, very small amount.
As far as the one day a week you pay that he isn't there, by the time you break it down whether you pay the full time chunk or hour by hour...full time probably is only slightly more. Part time child care is not a huge savings compared to full time. CS you receive helps pay for daycare.
This! Unless the judge decides BD is not responsible for daycare costs which I can not see happening, then CS covers childcare costs.
In my state childcare for work is part of the calculation. That is why my increase of cost of $250 leads to approx a $200 increase in his child support. The childcare is a huge part of the calcultion in my state.

So in your state BD is responsible for 200 dollars of daycare costs and all you are responsible to pay towards your child`s daycare for is 50 bucks? Is that right?

dmndsr4eva · January 2013

cole2144:
dmndsr4eva:
cole2144:
MelRC117:
dmndsr4eva:
Littlejen22:
mrslucid:
Hopeforthebest:
I think if at all financially possible, it would behoove you to use counsel. Especially in your case with the difficulties. Attys have a way of leaving the emotion out of the argument and proposals.

"He who represents himself has a fool for a client."
- Abraham Lincoln
Good advice. Also, government employees did not get a raise this year. I am a federal employee and we did not get a cost of living increase last year or this year. Only raise has come at my anniversary start date which is a grade/step increase.
I agree with the above. And every situation is different, your ex is setting you up to likely go for custody so you can put yourself in a bad situation. I am confused about fulltime daycare, what were you doing before and what would you do if this was not courtordered?
My son used to be with BD every Weds. and every other Fri. and I had a family member watch him for free two Fridays a month. On the new schedule DS is in daycare 5 days a week with me and then with BD or his parents 4 weekdays a month. But I still have to pay for his spot even on those 4 days he is not at the preschool.
Im also a government employee and due to the economy I haven't heard of government employees that I know getting raises. If anything it would be only a very, very small amount.
As far as the one day a week you pay that he isn't there, by the time you break it down whether you pay the full time chunk or hour by hour...full time probably is only slightly more. Part time child care is not a huge savings compared to full time. CS you receive helps pay for daycare.
This! Unless the judge decides BD is not responsible for daycare costs which I can not see happening, then CS covers childcare costs.
In my state childcare for work is part of the calculation. That is why my increase of cost of $250 leads to approx a $200 increase in his child support. The childcare is a huge part of the calcultion in my state.
So in your state BD is responsible for 200 dollars of daycare costs and all you are responsible to pay towards your child`s daycare for is 50 bucks? Is that right?

I'm not really sure your question. A month of full time daycare is over $800 a month. I can assure you I pay more than $50 a month?

cole2144 · January 2013

dmndsr4eva:
cole2144:
dmndsr4eva:
cole2144:
MelRC117:
dmndsr4eva:
Littlejen22:
mrslucid:
Hopeforthebest:
I think if at all financially possible, it would behoove you to use counsel. Especially in your case with the difficulties. Attys have a way of leaving the emotion out of the argument and proposals.

"He who represents himself has a fool for a client."
- Abraham Lincoln
Good advice. Also, government employees did not get a raise this year. I am a federal employee and we did not get a cost of living increase last year or this year. Only raise has come at my anniversary start date which is a grade/step increase.
I agree with the above. And every situation is different, your ex is setting you up to likely go for custody so you can put yourself in a bad situation. I am confused about fulltime daycare, what were you doing before and what would you do if this was not courtordered?
My son used to be with BD every Weds. and every other Fri. and I had a family member watch him for free two Fridays a month. On the new schedule DS is in daycare 5 days a week with me and then with BD or his parents 4 weekdays a month. But I still have to pay for his spot even on those 4 days he is not at the preschool.
Im also a government employee and due to the economy I haven't heard of government employees that I know getting raises. If anything it would be only a very, very small amount.
As far as the one day a week you pay that he isn't there, by the time you break it down whether you pay the full time chunk or hour by hour...full time probably is only slightly more. Part time child care is not a huge savings compared to full time. CS you receive helps pay for daycare.
This! Unless the judge decides BD is not responsible for daycare costs which I can not see happening, then CS covers childcare costs.
In my state childcare for work is part of the calculation. That is why my increase of cost of $250 leads to approx a $200 increase in his child support. The childcare is a huge part of the calcultion in my state.
So in your state BD is responsible for 200 dollars of daycare costs and all you are responsible to pay towards your child`s daycare for is 50 bucks? Is that right?
I'm not really sure your question. A month of full time daycare is over $800 a month. I can assure you I pay more than $50 a month?

Ok this answers my question. What the hell state do you live in that daycare is so expensive? We pay 316 a month for SD and then another 180 for after school care and that is total, not one parent.

dmndsr4eva · January 2013

And the rate went down when he turned 3 last month. I just assumed this was the going rate. Even when I had him in an in home daycare part time it was still about $40 per day. He is in a montessori school right now which I like. I think I could get him into one near my work which might be a little less but I hate to move him now that he is used to the other place.

nattyncbride · January 2013

cole2144:

Ok this answers my question. What the hell state do you live in that daycare is so expensive? We pay 316 a month for SD and then another 180 for after school care and that is total, not one parent.

I live in IN, which is not a high COL area, and daycare for my ~3-year-old 5 days/wk is over $1k/month. I would say your rate is the anomaly. I am jealous!!

As for the OP, I say try to fill in the paperwork. No, it is not rocket science - the worksheet just plugs values into a deterministic algorithm that spits out the payment amounts. However, considering what I have read from your previous posts, nothing is ever easy between you two, and you are not even sure about his income, so I think it's worth getting a lawyer if doing it yourself does not work out. At $200 a month, you will recoup your lawyer's fee in 8 months, and I'm assuming you expect your son will be in daycare much longer than that.

cole2144 · January 2013

MelRC117-

"Im in WI and I pay $520 and thats an in home place. A day care center would be about $800. I guess I would just assume that would already be calculated in CS. Im not aware of the calculators are though and how reliable they are."

I`m glad I live in PA. SD`s last daycare was 330 a month and the place she goes now which is a pre-k program at a Catholic school is 316 a month plus the after school fee. Daycare is calculated into CS here. If they agreed to shared childcare cost in mediation after she had already started DS at the full time rate then it should be simple to amend the CS to reflect that. If on the other hand BD never agreed to the new arrangement, it might be a battle.

AcousticSunrise · January 2013

Ok this answers my question. What the hell state do you live in that daycare is so expensive? We pay 316 a month for SD and then another 180 for after school care and that is total, not one parent.

Daycare can get pretty expensive. We pay $150 a week for an in-home unlicensed dcp (she is a friend.) Centers around here are $250-300 a week.

OP- If you think that you can do it without a lawyer more power to you but I'd be nervous with all of the history between you & BD.

xmaryrickx · January 2013

cole2144:
MelRC117"Im in WI and I pay 520 and thats an in home place. A day care center would be about 800. I guess I would just assume that would already be calculated in CS.nbsp; Im not aware of the calculators are though and how reliable they are."Im glad I live in PA. SDs last daycare was 330 a month and the place she goes now which is a prek program at a Catholic school is 316 a month plus the after school fee. Daycare is calculated into CS here. If they agreed to shared childcare cost in mediation after she had already started DS at the full time rate then it should be simple to amend the CS to reflect that. If on the other hand BD never agreed to the new arrangement, it might be a battle.nbsp;

that is insanely cheap. I don't know anyone who pays less than 200 a week, and most pay 300400. A week. We are in a MCOL area, trending higher, but not NYC high by any stretch of the imagination.

OP, if your situation wasn't terribly volatile and contentious I would say go for it. However, you do not have a food history with BD and I can't imagine this will be any different. I think in this case it's a horrible idea to represent yourself and will only lead to more stress and resentment in the long run.

Ilumine · January 2013

dmndsr4eva:
And the rate went down when he turned 3 last month. I just assumed this was the going rate. Even when I had him in an in home daycare part time it was still about $40 per day. He is in a montessori school right now which I like. I think I could get him into one near my work which might be a little less but I hate to move him now that he is used to the other place.

Well, that is one of the issues that YOU may end up having to deal with on the other end.

Montessori's are private schools, not daycare. Unless you have your Ex's written permission agreeing to this school, you may just open the hornet's nest.

Just saying

cole2144 · January 2013

Ilumine:
dmndsr4eva:
And the rate went down when he turned 3 last month. I just assumed this was the going rate. Even when I had him in an in home daycare part time it was still about $40 per day. He is in a montessori school right now which I like. I think I could get him into one near my work which might be a little less but I hate to move him now that he is used to the other place.
Well, that is one of the issues that YOU may end up having to deal with on the other end.
Montessori's are private schools, not daycare. Unless you have your Ex's written permission agreeing to this school, you may just open the hornet's nest.
Just saying

Did you ask him before changing daycares? If not you may have a problem.

dmndsr4eva · January 2013

My son has been going to this school for a year and a half and we have already been to court for child support and mediation multiple times. If he wanted to move his school then I assume he would have needed to file a motion or a request sooner.

He may or may not have gotten a raise and it is likely he would have as him and his girlfriend seem to be quite the popular rising stars in their department. He recieved a promotion last year which I presume is why he got the% raise.

I have decided to stick with my lawyer at least until after our next mediation regarding finalizing our current temporary visitation. It's probably not wise to go into the mediation with him thinking I don't have an atty.

Ilumine · January 2013

dmndsr4eva:
My son has been going to this school for a year and a half and we have already been to court for child support and mediation multiple times. If he wanted to move his school then I assume he would have needed to file a motion or a request sooner.

"I changed jobs a few months ago and my pay is the same. However under our new mediated visitation schedule my son has to go to daycare full time so I am now paying $250 more a month for that."

Half time DAYCARE is not the same as going to FULL TIME SCHOOL.

Montesorris are schools, not daycares. Just because YOU used it as a daycare does not negate the fact that by going FULL TIME, you are now sending him to a SCHOOL.

Yes, I do understand that for the younger kids, some Montessoris' want a 1/2 program, moving to a full day, there is definitely more of a "ciriculum" (and I use that air quote wtih all the sarcasm in my bones).

Your ex, knowing the Montessori theories could have looked at ths parttime time as nothing more than a glorified daycare but NOT care for your son's emmersion into the theories as a full time student.

I actually know two divorced parents who fought over sending their kids to Montessori "schools" and both times, the parent against Montessori won.

JUST SAYING.

dmndsr4eva · January 2013

JNL$LSM:
dmndsr4eva:

My son has been going to this school for a year and a half and we have already been to court for child support and mediation multiple times. If he wanted to move his school then I assume he would have needed to file a motion or a request sooner.

He may or may not have gotten a raise and it is likely he would have as him and his girlfriend seem to be quite the popular rising stars in their department. He recieved a promotion last year which I presume is why he got the% raise.

I have decided to stick with my lawyer at least until after our next mediation regarding finalizing our current temporary visitation. It's probably not wise to go into the mediation with him thinking I don't have an atty.

Since he is a government worker his salary is public record. Before going back to court you should look up and see if he got it. Depending on whether or not he is federal or state, will depend on raises. I know in my department we can only get raise every two years if it is based on super star work standards.

However, I would check his salary first since it is public record prior to going straight to court and paying for a lawyer. Just something to think about.

It is not public because he works in a clearance job with DOD. Trust me I've looked.

dmndsr4eva · January 2013

Ilumine:
dmndsr4eva:
My son has been going to this school for a year and a half and we have already been to court for child support and mediation multiple times. If he wanted to move his school then I assume he would have needed to file a motion or a request sooner.
"I changed jobs a few months ago and my pay is the same. However under our new mediated visitation schedule my son has to go to daycare full time so I am now paying $250 more a month for that."
Half time DAYCARE is not the same as going to FULL TIME SCHOOL.
Montesorris are schools, not daycares. Just because YOU used it as a daycare does not negate the fact that by going FULL TIME, you are now sending him to a SCHOOL.
Yes, I do understand that for the younger kids, some Montessoris' want a 1/2 program, moving to a full day, there is definitely more of a "ciriculum" (and I use that air quote wtih all the sarcasm in my bones).
Your ex, knowing the Montessori theories could have looked at ths parttime time as nothing more than a glorified daycare but NOT care for your son's emmersion into the theories as a full time student.
I actually know two divorced parents who fought over sending their kids to Montessori "schools" and both times, the parent against Montessori won.
JUST SAYING.

I'm not really sure what your point is. My son needs childcare while I work. A regular daycare or preschool facility is going to cost nearly the same amount I assume so who really cares if it is Montessori or not?

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