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switch from public to catholic school? experiences and advice?
Hi, there--anyone make the switch from public to catholic school/able to break down a comparison between the two (either for you or your child)?
By way of background, my child attended daycare for years-two different ones-and is in Kindergarten in public school this year. She easily made friends throughout her 4 years in daycare, and I found the kids around her were generally well-behaved or, when they weren't (e.g., became unkind in preschool), the staff quickly addressed it with lessons on being kind, etc. NOT SO at Kindergarten. My daughter does not want to go, and tells me specific stories about how nasty her fellow KINDERGARTENERS are. I've seen it, too, as we encourage her to play on the playground with the other kids when school lets out. My understanding is that the teachers' attitudes at her school is "kids will be kids, not my problem." I've discussed this with her teacher and she tells me that the school has a "terrific" "Peacebuilders" program, etc., but on the playground my daughter tells me the kids just run around pretending to shoot each other and "suck blood" (apparently, vampire games). My kid is still doing what I THOUGHT was age appropriate-like watching noggin, and there is certainly no shooting or blood sucking, etc. programming allowed.
We do not enjoy excess income and the thought of private school tuition makes me nauseous (we just paid for years of daycare!) but I'm not hearing these types of experiences from those with kids in the local Catholic school. I don't want to jump the gun and pull my daughter out and force her to adjust to yet another new environment, but I'm wondering if Catholic school generally puts more emphasis on kindness and wouldn't lightly accept poor behavior (as in making fun of people, excluding, being nasty)--I know I can't prevent it everywhere but I'm wondering if Catholic school would provide a better example generally. ( I attended public school so I can't tell whether it would or wouldn't, but I do know my public school experience was woefully inadequate in many areas).
I'll really appreciate your input!!
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Re: switch from public to catholic school? experiences and advice?
I am a product of both Catholic and public school, so I can tell you about my experience.
I went to Catholic school from K-6 and public school from 7-12. Misbehavior at my school was minimal, and when there was any, it was dealt with promptly. I remember 2 people in my grade in 6th grade being removed from the school all together for being behavior issues. I don't even remember them being terribly bad, I think they were removed because they were repeatedly in trouble. My classes were quite small and that helped with behavior issues too I'm sure.
I do remember some small things here and there, but generally speaking, we were kept on quite a short leash. We went to church every Friday and had religion class every day as well. Those who were not Catholic attended both, but did not have to "participate." I never remembered it being a problem for the non-Catholics anyway.
When I went to 7th grade, several public school teachers mentioned that they could tell I came from the Catholic school because of my behavior, grades, and manners.
I'm not anti-public school (I teach at one!), but I can tell you that the "character education" at the public district I teach in is generally just for good public relations. There are pros and cons to both. We plan on sending DS to Catholic school for at least the elementary grades.
Well... not an expert here, but I can tell you the experience of myself and my mom and sister. I went to Catholic school until college. I didn't mind and think it set good standards/expectations. My mom and sister have taught at both Catholic and public schools for years, and both said they would never send their child to a public school if they could afford it. To me, the difference is that in a private/catholic school, if a child is unruly, they can be kicked out. It takes an EXTREME action to get kicked out of public schools. Therefore, there is more control at private schools.
However, keep in mind, there can be crappy teachers at both types of schools and if that is the problem, then switching will not always solve the issue. At least here, private/catholic schools pay significantly lower than public schools, which can affect the quality of the teacher. However, on the flip side, teachers at the private schools that CHOOSE to be there may be more invested because they knowingly chose to make less money to be in a "better" environment.
Well, I haven't gone through it with my own child...he's one...but I went through a change from Catholic to Public...and it was definitely different. I realize times are different. Let me just say my Mom regrets making that change, and now pays for all of my nieces and nephews (and eventually LO) to go to Catholic school through the 8th grade. When I was in Catholic school I didn't know what "popular" was...seriously! I was never teased when I went to Catholic school...and it may have just been a matter of time. But I remember begging my mom to go back. My friend across the street gave me an education...to be fair by every right I was probably the most naive child ever, but there's also something to be said about keeping your innocence as a child. I remember begging my mom to go back. Since you only have a class of around 30, everyone is friends with everyone.
My sister's oldest son made the transition from public to Catholic...I can ask her how it went for him. I know she's happy my Mom has given her kids that option and now all of them go to Catholic school and will from now on. She said she likes the emphasis on no bullying, and manners, as well as learning. My nephew goes to HS at a public school now and is ranked second in his class. His younger siblings are still in grade school.
From my experience I say yes they character builid and it is not just the school the other children?s parents do too, although I don't know if they are better as I only went to catholic school. It makes sense when you think about it most people are sacrificing to pay for private school they are probably going to be pretty involved in their child?s education. Additionally, classes are smaller and you really get to know everyone making it more like a family. Plus catholic schools empower their teachers to discipline and therefore teachers are able to demonstrate, reward good behavior and discipline bad behavior.
I've been thinking about this lately, too. I am a product of the public school system. Overall, I had a great experience and want my girls to have the wide range of experiences and activities available to them. But, I do wonder if it would be better to send my girls to Catholic school for the first few years to keep them a little more sheltered. But, eventually, they'll have to make the transition back into public school and I don't want them to be shell-shocked and without friends when they go over in the 4th or 6th grade.
I think we're going to go to the open house next year and make our decision then. Our decision will probably be based on our finances and the maturity of DD.
But, like PPers said, I don't think sending them to Catholic school is a 'cure all.' The little girl who taught me about the birds and the bees when I was 6, was from a devout Catholic family. But, she was the 6th child, so she had lots of insider knowledge from older siblings.
I know that the Catholic schools in my area are more hands on when it comes to behavior and they would not just sit back while 5 year olds pretended to suck each others' blood.
That said, I grew up going to a secular private school and they were really strict with behavior - as strict as you can get about the dress code without imposing a uniform, name calling got you detention, bullying was grounds for suspension/expulsion, and our principal ratted out anyone found to be "dating" in middle school to the parents and expected the parents to end it regardless of what the parents thought.
Personally, I thought all of the social policing was a pretty big distraction from learning because even good kids got a lot of grief for minor infractions. Some of the better private schools in the area were more middle of the road - they'd intervene if something was truly out of line but otherwise stick to the task at hand. If we could afford a secular private school, I'd definitely go for it. But more likely, we'll only be able to afford a church affiliate.
Haha - this was true in my hometown as well (regarding the drugs). I went to public school until high school and then a Catholic high school, so sort of the reverse of what you're talking about. In my case this was because the public high schools were so bad academically that I really needed to go to the private school to be prepared for college, so like some of the pps have said there are a lot of local factors involved in this question and all Catholic schools are not the same, nor are all public schools.
That said, in my experience I found the Catholic school kids (by high school at least) to be fairly obnoxious, snotty, and closed minded. Not every one of them, of course, but in general I did not like the judgey-intolerant vibe there. And they did get a disproportionate number of kids who were discipline problems in public school and got sent there for extra control, so there is that.
This could be a product of where I grew up, but I personally remember the kids who went to private school (not necessarily Catholic, just private) being really snobby and rude to kids who went to public school in environments where the groups were mixed such as private sports teams.
Again, this could mainly be a product of how these kids were raised, and not how they were disciplined at school.
zachary happens! | little fish
Meh. There were a few kids in my private school with known drug issues, but it was no where near as widespread as the heroin problem at our local public high school.
As far as the teachers go, you could go the other way and say that because private school teachers don't have a union, it's much easier to get rid of the bad ones. That was my experience in private school.
OP - I'm struggling with the same thing now. The private school I was considering for DD (PreK-8th) starts at $27K a year. CRAZY! The local Catholic school starts at $4K, and I really like the curriculum. The public school near us has lost all funding for the specialized gifted and talented programs. There is no money for languages in elementary school, nor is there funding for music. I'm really not sure about the social aspects of the local public school. The parents I've met locally seem involved and on top of their kids, but I haven't heard much one way or the other about the administration. But the lack of funding, coupled with the lousy test scores for the past few years, make me lean toward a Catholic education. I feel like we'll have more of a voice at a small private school.
It's funny that the certification thing was mentioned because while it does make a lot of sense, I went to public school where all the teachers were, thus, certified and they pretty much all sucked. I mean, did nothing other than "teach" us by reading, verbatim, out of the text books. So, I put only so much stock in the certification thing--there are a TON of really crappy teachers out there with certifications.
As far as the drugs, although we aren't "affluent," we live in an area that is, and the surrounding areas are, too--so the drugs will be there regardless of public vs. catholic--which is so sad, really. Our public school is frequently touted as being very similar to a private school because there's high parent involvement and small classes, etc. (there are only 400 kids in an entire K-8 school).
I'm thinking of my own limited experiences-- I couldn't go on the class trip to Disney b/c my parents couldn't afford it. The public school attitude was "not our problem", NOT "let's find something that would be affordable for most." My sisters' classes in Catholic school did constant fundraising, etc., so that EVERYONE could go on the class trip (all money was pooled, no names given, and everyone went). I didn't have to perform a service requirement to graduate (because that would have surely brought a lawsuit), but my sisters did. I remember my one sister being involved in theatre and there being a host of characters, including some who surely would have been teased or bullied endlessly in public school but who thrived, unscathed in her Catholic school.
My heart is telling me Catholic school would probably be better, I just don't know how much farther we can stretch our pennies on one hand, vs. the other telling me "find a way, damnit, because these are your KIDS." I'm also worried about it upsetting my child too much--she moved from one daycare to another and then from daycare to Kindergarten in two years-that's a lot of adjustment. I wish there was an easy answer, and I so appreciate your feedback! Thanks, ladies!
Well I went to public from pre-k thru 5th then to Catholic for the next 3 and back to public.....I can say that Catholic was WAY more strict and the kids a lot more sheltered. Also in public school i was in advanced classes but in Catholic I was just average. That was a long time ago but looking at things recently my youngest sister went to Catholic from kinder-8th and our cousin who is the same age went to Public. She was a lot "faster" than my sister....she had "boyfriends" at age 9...was wearing makeup by 10.....She's still the same whereas my 16yr old sister is a "nerd" according to our cousin. In Catholic they didnt allow us to wear makeup or dye our hair so when i hit high school I was a bit shocked at the girls I saw.
Having experienced both I would put my daughter in Private.
I went to Catholic school through high school and my younger siblings went to Catholic school through 8th grade (my brother is 16 and my sister is 14, so their experience is recent). I enjoyed going to a Catholic school and felt like I had a good faith-based education. However, I do feel as though I was a bit sheltered and naive to some real life issues that would have been important to know (I do also put blame on my parents for this).
My siblings, who went to the same school that I did, had a really bad experience. The school had become really political, where the "popular" parents would get their way and other parents wouldn't. Also, there were favoritism towards what teachers were hired and some bad teachers with no experience were hired just because they had connections in the diocese. Also, there was a lack of checks and balances missing from how the school was managed. The diocese let the school do their own thing w/o any recourse and even the priest of the affiliated church had no influence into how the school was managed.
I understand that this is mostly how this one school is/was managed, but it put a really sour taste in my mouth and I won't be sending my kids to Catholic school. I would rather move to a good public school district.
I just don't ever make a blanket assumption that a private school is going to provide a healthier environment for my kids. Yes, they are going to reinforce a value system that I believe in, but I also think that I can do this as a parent with my kids in public school.
I'm the product of 12 years (13 years if you count kindergarten) of Catholic schooling. My husband is a product of the public school system. We have very similar morals and values due to how our parents raised us.
We met, and started dating, when we were in high school. I can tell you that his friends had a lot more experiences (sexual, drugs, exposure to violence in schools, etc.) than mine did but both groups meshed well. Neither me nor my friends thought we were better than my husband or his friends just because our parents paid for our private schooling. That thought never crossed my mind. I think saying that the majority of private school kids are obnoxious and close-minded is just as incorrect as saying that the majority of public school kids are lazy criminals. It just isn't true. I really think it depends on the parenting, the individual teachers and the actual school administration.
Do I think I benefited from my Catholic education? Absolutely. I learn better in smaller settings. Catholic school was able to provide that for me. Does that mean I think I'm smarter or in any way better than my husband? Absolutely not. Catholic school was a better option for me. Public schooling was a better option for him.
I would check out the private schools near you to see if you think it would be a better fit. As an alternative, could you choice your child into a different school in a better district? That's an option here that my sister has taken advantage of for my nephew. There are good private schools and there are bad ones. Same goes for public schools.
We deliberately chose our town for the "excellent" public school, too--tiny expensive home for the good schools vs the much bigger home but bad public schools, and my husband is looking at me like "No!" when I say "Catholic school?"
But to be fair, I'm just not impressed with the public school now that I'm in it. I'm convinced those who are hyping it up have low expectations or are part of the problem (doesn't help that the person with the most poorly behaved kids as far as bullying is also the head of the pta and every committee real and imagined from here to infinity). It's odd because it's Kindergarten, and so many of the Moms I meet are all tentatively asking around, "Umm, does your child seem happy here?" Once I say "no", they all start sharing their stories, too. How can they (the school and teachers) not get kindergarten right?? Call me crazy, but isn't this part supposed to be (relatively) fun?
We sent our son to a public school for K3 and then switched him to a private, Catholic school for K4. I like the idea of my children getting a religious education so that is a big motivator for us and when compared to our public schools, I believe my children will get a better education at a private school. If we lived in a different school district I might not consider it worth the money as private schools are quite expensive. The private school can discipline kids far easier than the public schools, along with expelling kids and firing poor teachers. Some of the rules get a little crazy though, like my daughter can't wear fashion boots to school or patterned socks.
Here in Milwaukee we have school choice, which allows parents to choose to send their children to private schools and not have to pay the tuition as it is paid by the public school system. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending upon how you look at it, my husband and I make too much money to qualify for that and it's a struggle for us to afford the tuition. Looking forward I worry how we will continue to afford it given our seemingly ever growing family.
Kelly, Mom to Christopher Shannon 9.27.06, Catherine Quinn 2.24.09, Trey Barton lost on 12.28.09, Therese Barton lost on 6.10.10, Joseph Sullivan 7.23.11, and our latest, Victoria Maren 11.15.12
Secondary infertility success with IVF, then two losses, one at 14 weeks and one at 10 weeks, then success with IUI and then just pure, crazy luck. Expecting our fifth in May as the result of a FET.
This Cluttered Life
I don't have a strong feeling on this, but one thing I wanted to throw out there is that generally, public schools are more "diverse" than Catholic school - and I mean that in the broadest sense - diverse learning styles, diverse ethnic/racial backgrounds, diverse income levels, diverse family situations (single parents/gay/step parents, etc.), etc. and IMO there is something to be said for participating in a more complex social group. I still don't know that I'd be down w/ Kindergartners playing zombie either though.
haha, good point.
The worst bullying/behavior I was exposed to, bar none, was in a religious school (Lutheran).
I went to public school for kindergarten, Lutheran co-ed school for 1-8, Anglican all girls for grade 9 (boarding school) and Catholic all girls for 10-12.
Honestly, the difference, if there is any, is not in the school or the religion. It's in that some amount of students are there because their parents are motivated enough to pay for schooling and parents that are that motivated to do that will also tend to be more involved, etc. Also, private schools can refuse children with behavioral problems and public schools generally cannot.
Also, parents who can afford private schools are also more likely to be able to be there more often to watch over what kids are doing.
None of which to say that all parents of public school kids aren't motivated/involved. Most of them are certainly are.
I will say this though, you get incredibly ENTITLED kids in private school that you just don't get as much of in public schools. Kids who feel it's their right to get good grades, parents who will take their kids side no matter what, that sort of thing. A lot of the bullying I got in private school was over my not wearing the most fashionable/name brand clothes available and that sort of thing.
I went to private school and can say that I had a great experience. I do not think public schools have "worse" schools but the one difference there was between my friends who went to public versus me are a few things.
A.: Because the school is not held to a board they can offer things that schools may have banned (certain books) and in my school to graduate you HAD to have 4 years of English, 4 years of Math, 4 years of language, 4 years of science, 3 years of history, etc. plus we had to do community service (like 200 hours over 4 years).
In CT the kids are not required to complete as much to graduate, so if you gave me the choice in higschool to take an extra science or studdy hall, I would have taken study hall, lol. Of course this depends on each kid, but there wasnt even a debate you had to take these, so when I went to college I tested out or didn't have to take many classes my friends who went to public school.
The uniforms were great because there was less pressure to have the right clothes, fit in, etc.
It was impossible to skip classes. The Dean had each parents cell and work numbers and every single class role call was made and if you were not accounted for a call went to your parents immediately.
So while I do think public schools have probably even better teachers (they get paid way more) the way the schools are set up do to the state make it very difficult for teachers to do there job.
I hope we can afford to send our kids to private school but if we cannot I am not upset if they have to go to public, just gonna have to press them to take more classes when they are upperclassmen.
I personally went through Public school as well but I currently have my daughter in Catholic school(Pre-k3). I've been around Catholic schools a lot over the years (parents worked in them and I sub in them now) and there is a difference for sure. Catholic school staff/teachers care so much about the kids in their class as well as all of the kids in the school. Typically the schools are smaller so everyone knows each child and will take the time on each child. My only issue with Catholic schools is education- this is def something you can address when your daughter gets a little older, but public school does offer more programs to ensure your child is receiving the help they need. Most Catholic schools are smaller so they only have one or two classes on a grade, so if your child needed to special classes (either Special Ed or Excel) they might not have that class separate.
Bottom line though, if your not happy with the school change it!
I wouldn't kid yourself into thinking that kids don't act the same way at a catholic school. DS goes to a Catholic French school and is in junior kindergarten. He was 3 years old at the beginning of the school year and turned 4 in november. He tells me about pretend playing with guns, a tongue fighting game and how he's been pushed and he's also pushed other kids on the playground. Now, obviously these incidents were dealt with and they are at a minimum now, but they still happened.
Switch schools if you want to, but don't think that Catholic schools are full of wonderfully well behaved children. Yes, I think they are held to a higher standard and I feel it's a better school system. If you want to switch for that reason, than go ahead...
I know that private schools teacher don't need to be certified in MD, parochial or not.
This literally made me LOL. It's true. All of it.
I am a Guidance Counselor in Catholic Schools. All of the problems you mentioned...we have them, too. Unless you live in a terrible school district (think urban), going to a Catholic School isn't going to fix your problems.
And sometimes, Catholic Schools don't kick out the bad kids, even when they should? Why? Because they pay tuition. Is it right? No. Does it happen? Yes.
And some of the above poster's are correct. Private School teachers don't have to be certified, nor to they have to abide by State and National Teaching Standards or Curriculums.
Are there great private schools? Sure. But the problems you mentioned..are EVERYWHERE.
This literally made me LOL. It's true. All of it.
I am a Guidance Counselor in Catholic Schools. All of the problems you mentioned...we have them, too. Unless you live in a terrible school district (think urban), going to a Catholic School isn't going to fix your problems.
And sometimes, Catholic Schools don't kick out the bad kids, even when they should? Why? Because they pay tuition. Is it right? No. Does it happen? Yes.
And some of the above poster's are correct. Private School teachers don't have to be certified, nor to they have to abide by State and National Teaching Standards or Curriculums.
Are there great private schools? Sure. But the problems you mentioned..are EVERYWHERE.