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2nd Trimester
Business of Being Born!
I saw this movie mentioned in an earlier post so I found it on Netflix and It was wonderful! It really provides wonderful information and supplies encouragement and empowerment!
I think i lived closer to a hospital in case something did go wrong or I found I couldnt handle it then my feelings about home birth would be different. unfortunately it is not something I will get to risk.
so to you other Mommies in their second trimester....who is thinking what? What kind of birth are you wanting in terms of birth and delivery. What is acceptable for you or unacceptable? How many of you feel that there is really something wrong with any kind of medical intervention?
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Business of Being Born!
Well this is my second round, and a series of unnecessary interventions landed me in the OR.
So.
Trying for a natural VBAC, and unless the baby is in distress or there is a good medical reasoning for any type of intervention, they better let my body do what it has to do, and leave me alone.
FWIW, any type of induction that isn't for a good medical reason is silly, cause all hell can break loose if your body truly isn't ready.
With DD I was hoping for a med-free, vaginal delivery. I labored for 36 hours, pushed for almost 4 hours and baby needed the help of a vacuum to be born.
About 3/4 of the way through labor I was exhausted, sick and emotionally drained. I decided then to have an epidural. Now that I see the whole picture of my baby's birth, I'm glad I did it. I don't think I would've made it through pushing if I hadn't had some help.
There were times after DD was born that I felt incredibly guilty for having an epidural. I feel like there's a lot of pressure to be "natural" and "med-free" and to resist all medical help. Like you're a weak mother or a bad mother for exposing your new baby to drugs or interventions. We're all supposed to be supermoms and power through the pain!
I had to come to terms with the fact that I am a good mother for listening to my body and doing what I thought was best.
With this baby, I am going in with the same plan of attack. I'd like to have a med-free vaginal birth. But I'm just going to roll with the punches.
Evelyn (3.24.10), Graham (5.30.13) & Miles (8.28.16)
Eh, I'm a fan of modern medicine. I'll wait as long as possible to get to the hospital, but pretty much because I don't want to be stuck on a bed with a catheter and not allowed to eat.
I watched the movie after DS1 was born, while I think there were some good points, IMO you have to keep in mind where the info is coming from, almost everything you read on any subject is bias on one side or the other.
ETA: I totally plan to bring up the topic of an elective induction at my next appt (I'm a surrogate and the parents live 6 hours away), flame away.
GSx1 - 05/13/2013
GSx2 for T&B - EDD 6/21/2015 - They're having a GIRL!
It makes me sad that you felt this way!
I dont know that I would consider that as intervention even though technically it is in some way. My questions was more about labor and delivery. I am not bias either way as I was educed with number 1 and had an epi and this time around although I would like to try the hardcore natural experience I dont have the option because of where I live and the location of the hospital.
My question was more for induction vs natural....Medication for comfort vs enduring pain.
I think women that can and do it naturally are wonderful but I do not think less of the women that chose to have it in a hospital or need/want the epi. I enjoyed my Vaginal delivery and I believe the reason I did was because of the epidural I got when I was 7cm. I was young and the whole Idea of labor and delivery initially scared the crap out of me and lets face it when you are young the stories of pain and pushing and stitches stick into your head much more than the ones of bliss and euphoria and natural do. At least that is how it was for me. I felt like even with my inductions and epi I was a champ and I was proud when I held that healthy baby girl that I carried and pushed out.
Thank you for that.
The Business of Being Born is just as biased as pro-med/intervention literature. So it's always amusing to me when people think they watched a documentary and just learned "the truth".
Currently Reading: Don Quixote by Miguel De Cervantes
I liked the movie on the grounds that it encourages a form of labor and delivery that is not as talked about as others. I have never met a woman in my life that had a full on natural birth at home of in the hospital.
I agree about the agenda thing behind the making of the film.....bc yes they do make my birthing choice look some how jaded and incorrect. But I didn't read as much into the Dr.'s and hospitals are all about the money and time saving and drugs part.
I agree with you, though..I had a similar delivery as you (not 2 days) and I was proud and triumphant just the same.
I found that film to be fear mongering.
I will have a hospital birth without meds unless I change my mind. I have had two hospital births so far, one with and epidural and one med-free.
I do not believe obgyns are evil and I don't think hospitals are something to be scared of. I think epidurals and pain relief medications are perfectly acceptable if the mother wants them. I don't believe you are any more of less of a woman for taking or not taking pain relief medications.
I do think the c-section rate is too high and that's unfortunate. There are still great doctors and nurses out there.
EDIT I woud never have a home birth. In the even something happened I would want to now there was no time wasted in deciding of whether or not to transfer and no time wasted actually getting there. It just wouldn't work well for me.
I agree with you...I am watching More business of Being born now and they just made a comment of the fact the women are really cautious while they are pregnant about what they eat and drink and care for themselves but they some how throw that out the window when it comes to delivering in a hospital with and epi and pitocin or C-section. I dont agree with that statement at all and it kind of frustrated me and proved another PP's point.
ugh I support all women either way. I am not for or against any one thing in-particular. Just wishing everyone safe healthy happy babies and families.
I'm surprised people think the movie is biased. [SPOILER AHEAD SO DON'T READ IF YOU WANT TO WATCH THE MOVIE AND BE SURPRISED] - one of the two filmmakers ended up having an emergency C-section during the filming of the movie, and it was the right choice for her. This movie discusses the overall business of birth in the United States - which is horrible - not individual outcomes. The movie isn't perfect and isn't the be-all-end-all for the subject, but it does help bring to light a lot of problems, including the fact that we have some of the worst birth outcomes in the first world, including an unreasonably high infant mortality rate.
I'll be hopefully having an unmedicated birth in a large, respected hospital with a midwife. I am taking steps to support this process, like taking birthing classes and hiring a doula. I didn't come to this decision after watching the movie, or reading any single book, but as a result of my own research into the matter.
It's not merely my opinion (or the opinion of some filmmaker or Ina May or anyone) that there are too many c-sections perfomed in the US, that is a fact. The WHO estimates that depending on the level of prenatal care and other factors, the correct number of c-sections in any given area should be somewhere between 5 and 15%. In this country, we teeter closer to 50%. That's not acceptable. The c-sections are not producing better outcomes, not contributing to maternal or fetal health. It's a very broken system that needs to be evaluated and fixed.
There is no doubt that the c-section rate it too high. But that is a symptom of a much bigger problem with our healthcare system. Not a problem with OB practices themselves.
I more have a problem with them saying that Pitocin can lead to autism. There is also a big difference between women becoming their own health advocates and questioning the medical expertise of doctors.
There's a difference between an established, tested intervention that will improve outcomes (like GD testing, or even certain labor & birth interventions), and interventions which are not shown to improve any outcome but are continually performed, which is the problem with childbirth in this country. The rationale for inducing is very often bad - the baby is going to be big, the baby hasn't turned yet and you're already 38 weeks, you're 40 weeks and 6 days so we should get this moving along, etc. Inductions are scheduled for all kinds of reasons that don't have any basis in medical necessity, and those interventions are more likely to result in a c-section that would likely have not been necessary if not for the unecessary intervention. Like my husband says, "The obstetrical community has created problems that they then need to fix."
Through my job I have attended both home births and hospital births. I find that after witnessing them first hand that the home birth experience is the one I'd prefer to have. When I deliver I will be living over an hour away from a hospital with any sort of NICU or ability to care for an emergency like that, so I have been working with a midwife who is going to let me delivery in her assistant's house, which is just a few blocks from the hospital. I just prefer the atmosphere and freedom you are given when not having to follow hospital protocols, and I don't want to be fighting for those rights. I also really want my husband to catch the baby, not some doctor wearing full scrubs and a mask. Just a preference thing, really.
I am also aware that my vision of these two forms of births are VERY skewed by my job. Since the hospital births I attend are less than ideal and the home births I tend are as low risk as they come. But it's still something I have to live with and imagine as I picture how my labor and delivery will go, so I've opted to go the home birth route.
Can you please point out to me where in the documentary they mention pitocin causing autism? I've watched it a few times and I don't recall that being mentioned and would like to watch that part. I work with children with autism and this is honestly one theory I have never heard any of the parents toss around so it's interesting to hear people think this.
B born 7/15/13, C born 3/2/15, #3 on the way May '17
I’m a modern man, a man for the millennium. Digital and smoke free. A diversified multi-cultural, post-modern deconstruction that is anatomically and ecologically incorrect. I’ve been up linked and downloaded, I’ve been inputted and outsourced, I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading. I’m a high-tech low-life. A cutting edge, state-of-the-art bi-coastal multi-tasker and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond! I’m new wave, but I’m old school and my inner child is outward bound. I’m a hot-wired, heat seeking, warm-hearted cool customer, voice activated and bio-degradable. I interface with my database, my database is in cyberspace, so I’m interactive, I’m hyperactive and from time to time I’m radioactive.
It's honestly been a few years, but I remember it being towards the end. They were talking about the amount of women who get pitocin, they showed a big hospital whiteboard detailing all the rooms with the drips going, and I think it was an "expert" doing the voice over on it.
Sorry it's a vague description
I remember the scene- I'll rewatch it when I get the chance. I think I always focused on what the nurses were saying/writing rather than listening to the voice over. Was in the WHO guy that said it or a female voice? I haven't watched it in about 6 months myself so I'm just trying to get the voice right in my head!
B born 7/15/13, C born 3/2/15, #3 on the way May '17
I’m a modern man, a man for the millennium. Digital and smoke free. A diversified multi-cultural, post-modern deconstruction that is anatomically and ecologically incorrect. I’ve been up linked and downloaded, I’ve been inputted and outsourced, I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading. I’m a high-tech low-life. A cutting edge, state-of-the-art bi-coastal multi-tasker and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond! I’m new wave, but I’m old school and my inner child is outward bound. I’m a hot-wired, heat seeking, warm-hearted cool customer, voice activated and bio-degradable. I interface with my database, my database is in cyberspace, so I’m interactive, I’m hyperactive and from time to time I’m radioactive.
With my son I had an epidural (as planned) and had him in the care of a hospital with a NICU, just in case. This was the right decision for me and for him, and I hope to have another wonderful and complication-free pregnancy with my second.
I believe all Moms are entitled to deliver their babies in a way they choose, but I do have a close friend who has helped shaped the way I will want to have mine. She is a Neonatologist at one of the top hospitals in NYC, and is also a Mom and totally rational person in general. Unfortunately she deals with babies who are sick or have trauma upon delivery (I don't know how she can hold it together with this job!)
Anyways- she has really enlightened that there are many births happening at home which turn out to have complications that put the Mom and baby at risk. She sees many unfortunate situations where at-home birth turns dangerous, and sadly sometimes the babies aren't able to get medical attention immediately... so their conditions are worse than they may have been delivered in a hospital (or loss of life.)
Having a baby is one of the true miracles of life, so I again believe we all are entitled to try for the experience we want during their birth. I just wanted to share that this has impacted how I personally feel most comfortable planning for birth.
Good luck ladies!
It is mentioned on episode one of More business of being born. They don't say it does or does not but they say that it does have to have some effects and all the women that have home births at the farm or the women in the Amish community that they see have never had any cases of autism. They also question what kind of effects the ultrasound has on the baby.
The csection rate in 2009 was 32.7. while high, it is not near 50. There are many reasons for it being so high; medical advances that allow high risk women to get and maintain a pregnancy, medical screening that allows doctors to pinpoint problems early, etc. These things are not found in other countries. In 3rd world countries, 1 out of every 100 births still lead to maternal demise.
This movie causes fear mongering, and is completely one sided. Many women watch it and want to have this natural birth, and suffer depression and self esteem issues if it doesn't work out.
Good article... https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guestblog/2012/03/28/cesareansectionsintheusthetroublewithassemblingevidencefromdata/
"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to be over, it's about learning how to dance in the rain." -Unknown
Married 3-1-08 | Nathan 11-24-08 | Kaelyn 11-30-10 | Alicia 8-17-13
This is ridiculous. I feel sorry for women who suffer from low self esteem issues because they are not able to labor naturally, but according to this logic, the benefits of natural deliveries should not be discussed because then some women will feel bad if they can't do it. Then we should definitely not discuss the benefits of breastfeeding because there will be some women who can't do that either. While we are at it, we should probably not air the Olympics, because there are people out there who are not athletes, and we wouldn't want them to feel bad about themselves.
Women who decide to have natural labor and births deserve to be normalized too, and have the benefits of their choices be understood by a wider audience. I got a lot of negative feedback from my decision to have my first unmedicated at a birthing center. It didn't sway my decision, but it would have been nice to not be labeled a weird hippie. You may think your being judged because you don't have a natural labor, but it goes absolutely both ways, we are being judged too, so cry me a river
Sometimes things in life don't work out how you planned, if you can't roll with the punches then your issues are much bigger than a Ricki Lake documentary
As for fear-mongering, I have been blessed to have two completely normal pregnancies and I am an excellent candidate for a home birth, yet I have experienced what I would consider close to bullying behavior from medical professionals about my choice to have an outside-of-hospital birth. Fear mongering goes both ways too.
I believe in modern medicine. I am fine with the idea of pain meds during childbirth. I don't judge people who get drugs nor do I judge people who choose to go med free. The birth experience is very personal. While a healthy baby and mom is the obvious desired end result, the experience itself can mean A LOT to the woman and how she perceives her own birth experience is important. Saying that a healthy baby is the only goal really diminishes the importance of the woman's right to choose and be happy with her own particular experience. Every woman needs to do what she hopes will both end in a healthy baby/mommy AND a positive birth experience. Whether that means scheduling a c/s or going med free at home in a tub, it's unique to the woman and every woman should be allowed to try for the experience she wants.
I went into my first birth with not too much of a plan. I trusted my doctors and I wasn't opposed to interventions. I just wanted my healthy baby and didnt think it would matter how she got here. It did. I got an epi, labor stalled, got pitocin, I swelled ridiculously, and after 23 hours of labor and three plus hours of pushing, I ended on an operating table. I was crushed. I didn't think I would be affected that way, but I was very unhappy with my experience; I felt like a failure and had a lot of guilt. It took months to get over, I was in tears often and felt I had lost something. It sucked.
I'm planning a med free VBAC this time. The med free part doesn't come because I'm against meds or not willing to have them this time, it comes because my doctor and I agree that going med free will present me with the best chances of succeeding in the VBAC. Induction drugs are not an option this time because of my past c/s; some docs will allow them, mine won't, and even if he did, I wouldn't allow it because of the increases risk of rupture.
Interventions save lives. And even when not medically necessary, there's nothing wrong with choosing interventions to achieve the birth plan one desires, IMO.
The movie brings up some important flaws in our healthcare system and shows some definite truths in regards to hospitals trying to rush women through birthing, but it also has an agenda for sure. FWIW, I did not watch it before having DD, so it had zero to do with my feelings afterward. To anyone who chooses to watch it, take it with a grain of salt. And to FTMs, keep an open mind when planning the birth of your babies. Have your desires mapped out, but be ready for things to go another way. I think it's a good idea to be as educated as possible on all interventions so you can work them into [or out of] your birth plan accordingly. I didn't research interventions in depth and I didn't have much of a plan; I chose the 'laid back' approach and it bit me in the ass. So, a happy medium. Be educated, have a plan, but be realiatic and be prepared for things to go differently. And most of all, your birth experience is yours and yours alone and it's okay to feel how you do about it afterward.
I could be wrong since it's been a while since I watched the documentary, but I thought they said that the rate of c-section has increased over 50% since the 80s, not increased TO over 50%. It's a play on words, but when you consider that the c-section rate in the 80s was hover around 16% that is a factual statement.
Also your numbers on maternal death rates in Third World countries is very off. Grossly off, actually. Mexico, for instance (which is Third World by definition) has only 50 maternal deaths for every 100,000 live births. Costa Rica (also Third Wold) has 47/100,000. And Iran has 21/100,000 which just happens to be the same number as the United States.
B born 7/15/13, C born 3/2/15, #3 on the way May '17
I’m a modern man, a man for the millennium. Digital and smoke free. A diversified multi-cultural, post-modern deconstruction that is anatomically and ecologically incorrect. I’ve been up linked and downloaded, I’ve been inputted and outsourced, I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading. I’m a high-tech low-life. A cutting edge, state-of-the-art bi-coastal multi-tasker and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond! I’m new wave, but I’m old school and my inner child is outward bound. I’m a hot-wired, heat seeking, warm-hearted cool customer, voice activated and bio-degradable. I interface with my database, my database is in cyberspace, so I’m interactive, I’m hyperactive and from time to time I’m radioactive.
It's really interesting to me as a FTM hearing about how some women feel depressed about their birth experiences because I feel like it is a lot more common these days (or maybe people are just talking about it more).
I guess I've just always been one of those people that thinks of it like "if my baby and I are healthy in the end, then whatever experience I had will be a good one."
Maybe that's naive, but all I really want is my baby to be delivered successfully by whatever means possible and in my arms. I am usually a control freak in life, but when it comes to birthing, I am totally the opposite. Maybe this will change as I'm futher along, but my dream birth experience is being handed a healthy baby and being healthy myself. I have no other expectations and/or preferences in terms of how it all happens (ie: with or without induction, with or without an epidural, with or without a c-section). I still plan to do my research and educate myself about my options and the birthing process in general, but I feel I am really flexible about the actual birth itself.
This. There are a lot of decision-points in pregnancy and childbirth where existing protocols aren't evidence-based. I'm actually not against things like a C-section when it's needed, but I think we as a nation are performing some interventions (like, say episiotomies, though they are declining) in a manner that flies in the face of data or evidence on improved health outcomes. I do a lot of public health research/writing for my job, and so it was fascinating to see the difference in protocols that we promote in the rest of the world (most of which are based on WHO standards), and the types and frequency of interventions that the US medical system as a whole promotes.
Anyway, not a knock on individuals' choices, or individual doctors, but the overall statistics are disheartening.
I loved that movie! I think if nothing else it shows a different perspective that most women haven't heard before.
With DS I planned an unmediated hospital birth with midwives. Everything was going fine until they kept losing the HB and I had to stay in bed in one position. I was in transition at that point and I couldn't deal, so I had an epidural and they used and internal monitor. They also pushed fluids since they suspected his cord was wrapped around his neck, which works if your baby hasn't looped it twice around like mine did.
Literally 20 minutes later his HB stopped completely, so I was rushed for an emergency c/s and he was out in 5 minutes.
I'm going for a VBAC this time and hoping this baby doesn't feel the need to be as dramatic as his older brother.
We also have a lot of freedom to pursue prosecution for malpractice if something goes wrong, and therefore, the OBs and hospitals take the fall for it. In return, they pay a ridiculous amount of money to even practice Obstetrics, and a c-section is a sure fire way to say that they did everything they could to get mother and baby safely through delivery.
Thanks for bringing this up - debate and conversations are good!
That movie had a big effect on me as well. It helped reveal the really big divide between how my husband and I felt about birth.
My husband was born on a kitchen table in the woods, and both of his mothers were midwives and later NP midwives who delivered hundreds of babies (on kitchen tables, but also in beds, hospitals, and birthing centers). He attended the homebirth of his niece and caught her when she came out. To him, birth is this magical time with your family to experience immense joy and bonding.
I, on the other hand, come from a family of doctors and trauma nurses. My mom used to fly out on 3 person helicopters to remote villages in Alaska to pick up laboring women who were hemorrhaging or otherwise in dire need of immediate support at the regional hospital. Her patients and/or their babies often died enroute. To me, birth is scary and you can die from it.
I joked before the movie "you know I want a "twilight delivery" right? Just knock me out and let me wake up with a baby a few hours later." He was totally shocked. We'd never talked much about birth. We've been having a conversation about it ever since.
A big thing for me was asking my mother how my birth went. I'd assumed she had a super medicated birth, not sure why. Turns out with me she was bullied into being induced with pitocin because my father was going on leave in a few weeks and the doctor thought he'd want to have the baby sooner (no joke). But apparently she worked right through those contractions and had me with no other intervention. My sister was born without induction and medication a few years later.
I'm still scared - not going to lie. But I also feel pretty empowered knowing my mom was so tough. I don't feel comfortable with homebirth, but we are going to do our best to have a natural birth at a hospital with the help of doula. My husband is scared because he thinks the hospital will try to force us into something we don't want, but I've assured him that a doula will be a go-between who has tons of experience and will advise us and help us through it. I'd like to go without medication, but we'll be open to it if I'm too wiped out and the doula thinks it could help speed things along.
I feel like we've come to a really good compromise. I'll be the one feeling the physical pain, but my husband will have to help me through it and watch me hurt and be the calm supportive one, so I think we both should have a say.
With this delivery I will be a repeat csection as I am a very poor candidate for a vbac.
This! And OB/GYNs generally have the highest malpractice premiums. Thier livelihoods are on the line every time they walk into a delivery.
I've had GYNs that tell me that they used to practice OB also, but the malpractice premiums and the liability was too much of a risk for them, which is just sad because they are excellent GYNs and I can only imagine the quality of care that they would give their OB patients.
I had a mostly intervention free delivery with my son. I had Cervadil and that's it. That put me into labor and I went on to labor for 20 hours and push for 3. I am planning for the same this time around, or something very similar anyway.
I find BOBB very biased and one sided. Not all MW's are kind and encouraging. Just like not all OB's are induction/c-section hungry.
ALL OF THIS!!! Thank you.
Also knowing that not everyone has the best options available to them (either hospital wise or midwife wise) is important before laying any judgement. In my case, there is one home birth midwife that lives in my area and I haven't heard the greatest things about her. But also the hospital that is 3 miles away from me sucks as well, and I wouldn't want to deliver there. But 20 miles away there's a great hospital birth center run by midwifes (along with OBs just in case) that is amazing. So here, I would definitely deliver at that hospital and be very happy with my options.
But we're probably not living here much longer. Where we are thinking of moving to there are two hospitals within a 60 mile radius of where we are living and both are horrible. One is frightening horrible when you hear of the experienced some women have had there. The other is "better, but not great". So there I will opt for a home birth with a midwife. The midwife I found is great and comes highly recommended and her numbers are fantastic. She's also VERY well educated! I'd trust her over both hospitals to really care for me.
B born 7/15/13, C born 3/2/15, #3 on the way May '17
I’m a modern man, a man for the millennium. Digital and smoke free. A diversified multi-cultural, post-modern deconstruction that is anatomically and ecologically incorrect. I’ve been up linked and downloaded, I’ve been inputted and outsourced, I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading. I’m a high-tech low-life. A cutting edge, state-of-the-art bi-coastal multi-tasker and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond! I’m new wave, but I’m old school and my inner child is outward bound. I’m a hot-wired, heat seeking, warm-hearted cool customer, voice activated and bio-degradable. I interface with my database, my database is in cyberspace, so I’m interactive, I’m hyperactive and from time to time I’m radioactive.
That's what I thought too, but I have friends who were patting each other on the back publically about having natural, un-medicated births. It's frustrating to hear them say to each other "Oh, that's so great that you had an unmedicated birth. It's so much healthier for the baby!" and not feel like the decision I made (to have a medicated birth) was not the *best* one for my child. To feel like what I did was only second best.
It's something I struggled with for awhile, but I've come to terms with it now.
Evelyn (3.24.10), Graham (5.30.13) & Miles (8.28.16)
I am a huge natural birth advocate because I believe unnecessary interventions are not good for mom or baby. I had a birth center birth with my first and I'm planning a home birth with this one.
However, there is a time and a place for medical intervention. We have so many wonderful tools that when used properly, with true informed consent and patient participation, save lives and improve outcomes.
To me, natural birth is about being an advocate for what is best for you and your baby which means that you also have to know when to say, ok, it's time to use the wonder of modern medicine. I also believe that women who want epidurals should have them. They have risks and benefits and as long as you know what they are, then I'm in favor of having that choice.
The thing is, higher intervention rates have not equaled better outcomes. It is more dangerous to give birth in the U.S. than in 49 other countries despite our high intervention and C-section rates. We rank 34th in infant mortality rates behind Cuba and Croatia.