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Natural Birth
From natural birth plan to planned c section ;(
After trying spinning babies moves, yoga, chiro, acupuncture and 2 external versions this little one refuses to go head down!! I'm 38 weeks and the baby is fairly big already so they have scheduled a c-section for me on the 14th. I am SO incredibly sad about this and a bit worried about all of the effects of the drugs on me, the baby and the breast feeding experience. If anyone knows answers to any of my (many) questions/fears please share!!
1) I know I can always try for a VBAC next time but if I don't labour this time around my body will be doing it for the first time ever...and with a uterine scar. Is there any info out there that addresses this? Does labouring before the caesarian make the second birth easier?
2) What about cord clamping now? Can they delay it the 90 seconds or is it standard to cut it off right away?
3) I am SO devastated about the possibility that I won't be able to hold my baby after it is born. This is the saddest part for me to let go of. Can they free my arms and have skin to skin while they are stitching me up?
Can they do all of the testing with the baby on me or do they have to take it away?
4) How do they get the uterus to shrink. It has had no hormonal signal to do this, just cut open and emptied. Do they give me a drug? The uterus massage? How can they do this with stitches and staples? How does the placenta seperate from the uterus without labour?
5) What about all of the drugs before/during/after that I now have to take? How will this affect breast feeding? Is it harder to get BF established if the baby doesn't go through the catecholemine release associated with labour "stress"?
6) Previous to this I really wanted a video of the birth. I am not so sure now as surgery kind of ick's me out. DH thinks we should still get a video done in case we regret it later. Have you ever heard of this being done for a c section?
7) What's the deal with length of hospital stay. Is it 3-5 days or until I poo? How long do I WANT to stay? How long before I can get up and take care of baby...will I be a drugged out zombie? Will I want family to come that night to see baby? How are most moms the evening of the surgery?
Thanks so much in advance for sharing your stories and experiences, I have only 12 days to mentally prep for this and I spent the last 8.5 months learning everything I could about natural vaginal birth...so i feel so unprepared!!!!!! so thank you xxx
This discussion has been closed.
Re: From natural birth plan to planned c section ;(
I don't have experience with c-sections nor really any answers to your questions, but I wanted to say that I'm sorry about what you're going through. It's understandable that you would be frustrated and sad. I'm pregnant with twins & about to start my Hypnobabies training -- hoping for a natural birth -- but I know that a c-section is still a possibility depending on the situation. That's what I'm probably most "afraid of" - and I know I'll be disappointed and a bit scared, too, if we have to schedule one.
This reminded me of a youtube video that someone posted here recently, in the thread about "natural c-sections"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5RIcaK98Yg I don't know how much advocating you can do for your situation -- or if they employ any of these techniques -- but in case it's helpful, I thought I'd paste the link here.
As for your questions, do you feel comfortable scheduling an appointment to go back and talk to your OB about these questions specifically? Or what about calling & talking to a nurse in their practice? It's their job to help educate you and make you feel confident and comfortable with their care & with the procedures -- so hopefully you can get more information from them.
The one other thing I can speak to is that I have seen videos from c-sections, so if that's something you'd still want, it's worth checking into.
Thinking positive thoughts for you! AND...maybe that baby will surprise you & shift within the next 12 days..? Fingers crossed!
I had an unplanned C/S last time (for FTP, baby wasn't tolerating labor well, I stalled out at 8cm after nearly 24 hours of active labor, baby was posterior) so hopefully I can answer some of your questions.
1) I know I can always try for a VBAC next time but if I don't labour this time around my body will be doing it for the first time ever...and with a uterine scar. Is there any info out there that addresses this? Does labouring before the caesarian make the second birth easier?
I asked about this specifically. Obviously I did labor before my C/S though so it's a little different. I was told that as far as contractions go I should benefit from my uterus working more efficiently since I had experienced active labor before, but that the pushing stage will be the same as a FTM, which makes sense. I wouldn't worry about this all that much though because yes, things are supposed to go a little smoother the 2nd time around, but just how much is so hard to measure, you know? I do know that as long as everything goes well with your C/S you should be an excellent VBAC candidate in the future.
2) What about cord clamping now? Can they delay it the 90 seconds or is it standard to cut it off right away?
Here's what I was told about this with my current practice: They usually delay cord clamping until the cord stops pulsing which can last a few minutes. With a C/S they delay about 90 seconds and then clamp and cut so they can quickly asses baby.
3) I am SO devastated about the possibility that I won't be able to hold my baby after it is born. This is the saddest part for me to let go of. Can they free my arms and have skin to skin while they are stitching me up?
Can they do all of the testing with the baby on me or do they have to take it away?
Again, here is what I was told (obviously it could be different for your practice. I'm currently with a small practice of 3 CNMs and 1 OB, obviously the OB would be the one coming in to do the C/S if a VBAC doesn't work out. I've been seeing the MWs though): I do not have to have my arms strapped down (this is important to me. It was done last time and I wish I had known to say something, but I really didn't plan on having a C/S last time!). They will give me a quick peek at baby, but they do need to take baby over to the warmer area after the cord is cut to be assessed and this is because C/S babies often need additional suctioning and that sort of thing. They want to make sure baby is breathing okay. After that, as long as everything checks out well I can get some snuggles in with MH's assistance.
Baby does not have to be separated from us postpartum (this is a huge one for me. Last time they told me it was mandatory despite everything with baby being okay, they said it was mandatory monitoring, so MH went with baby to be bathed and monitored or whatever and I wasn't reunited with him until about 2 hours later. It sucked big time. I was told that this time baby can stay snuggled with me and then will transition to recovery with us. Now, my MW did say that hospital policy typically is to keep baby separate, but that's because for baby to be in recovery with mom a nurse has to be present. My MW will be transitioning with us to recovery if a C/S arises so she can act as the "monitor" for baby. Definitely ask about this to see if you have a choice! And that's when we can really do skin-to-skin and try to get breastfeeding going.
4) How do they get the uterus to shrink. It has had no hormonal signal to do this, just cut open and emptied. Do they give me a drug? The uterus massage? How can they do this with stitches and staples? How does the placenta seperate from the uterus without labour?
I'm not really sure about this. I would *guess* they give some pitocin to help things along as some practices do this standard even with a vaginal delivery. I don't particularly remember being given anything (obviously I had an IV in so who knows what they put in it) though. I do remember the nurses pushing on my stomach periodically, but I think it was more to check to make sure my uterus was shrinking than doing massage. It wasn't pleasant. I *think* that once the uterus detaches your body probably has a natural response and starts the process of shrinking the uterus and contracting anyway, you know?
5) What about all of the drugs before/during/after that I now have to take? How will this affect breast feeding? Is it harder to get BF established if the baby doesn't go through the catecholemine release associated with labour "stress"?
I wish I had good advice to give on this. I know that on average, C/S mamas do have to wait longer for their milk to come in. It can be harder to establish breastfeeding for several reasons. Unfortunately I had a really bad experience with this and didn't produce any milk. No one was able to tell me why, the C/S could definitely have had something to do with it, but maybe it didn't. We'll see this time around. Plenty of mamas don't have any issues though so hopefully you won't!
6) Previous to this I really wanted a video of the birth. I am not so sure now as surgery kind of ick's me out. DH thinks we should still get a video done in case we regret it later. Have you ever heard of this being done for a c section?
We were not allowed to have a video camera in the OR per hospital policy, we were able to take pictures, but not of the actual surgery itself. Hospital policy also doesn't allow video during pushing for a vaginal delivery either (::side eye:: it's totally CYA for them) so I don't know what your options are. I honestly would not want any footage of the surgery itself, but maybe right when baby comes out and the doctor lifts him up for you to see over the curtain?
7) What's the deal with length of hospital stay. Is it 3-5 days or until I poo? How long do I WANT to stay? How long before I can get up and take care of baby...will I be a drugged out zombie? Will I want family to come that night to see baby? How are most moms the evening of the surgery?
Everyone has a different experience. I will say I had a fairly rough/long recovery, but as I said I labored for nearly 24 hours before my C/S so I think that had a lot to do with it. Everyone else I know who has had a C/S seems to have had an easier recovery than I did. DS was born just after 6pm on Sunday. On Tuesday my OB gave me the option of being released, but I wasn't ready yet. I was having a lot of trouble getting around, in and out of bed, etc. and I knew I still needed the hospital bed and that sort of thing and that it would be much harder at home. I ended up being released at Noon on Wednesday and I felt ready at that point. I was really ready to get back to my own house and bed and was able to get around slightly better. I honestly don't remember if the bowel movement thing played into it at all. I would assume you need to have a BM before they discharge you so they know things are working, but I really can't remember. It must not have been an issue.
As far as taking care of baby, I'll tell you my experience, but again, I feel like I had a rougher recovery than some others. I wasn't really able to get in and out of bed in the hospital to take care of baby. MH did diaper changes and that sort of thing and he handed baby to me for nursing. I got up to move around because the nurses required it every so often and I got up to go to the bathroom and that's really all I could manage. Once we got home I still wasn't getting around very well and MH still did most of the diaper changes and handing baby to me to feed and snuggle and I only got up to do some laps around the house (it helps with recovery) and go to the bathroom. MH went back to work when DS was 2 weeks old and that's when I was really getting back on my feet and able to move around more. Before that I was actually nervous about carrying baby more than a few steps. I don't necessarily think this is typical though, but that's what my experience was.
As far as visitors, you'll probably do okay with it. It's not like you need to be up and that sort of thing. DS was born in the evening and it was late by the time we got to our postpartum room (and neither of us had slept for 2 days at that point) so obviously we didn't have visitors that night! People came the next day though, and my family was actually in recovery with me right after the C/S and had a chance to visit with the baby. I'm sure I wasn't much to visit with at that time, but they wanted to see the baby, not me
GL!
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I'm sorry this is happening, it's definitely not the ideal situation. I think you'll have to talk to your OB about a lot of your questions, but here's what I have:
1. I think in order to attempt a VBAC, they need to suture in a certain way. Double layered, maybe? Either way, as long as you have an acceptable amout of time between your pregnancies (ask your OB to be sure), I don't see any reason you couldn't VBAC and labor for the first time with your next babe.
2. I guess they could still delay clamping, but you should ask your OB this.
3. They should be able to free one or both of your arms so you can at least touch the baby. Skin to skin, I'm not sure if that's possible while still in the OR, but it's worth asking about. I don't think they can do the testing on you since it is a surgery and therefore a sterile procedure.
4. I think they'll probably give you a little pitocin.
5. Here's some studies about c-sections, epidurals, and breastfeeding:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22456657
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22166068
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21743355 (this is a RN based study, but may be good to show your physician if they are not sure about skin to skin in the OR)
Basically, it looks like the sooner you can initiate BFing, the better.
6. I'm not sure who in the OR will be able to video the birth, since pretty much everyone has something to do. I'd still have your H take the camera/video camera into the OR just in case. The doctor should at least tell you when they're pulling the baby out and YH should at least be able to get pictures/video of that.
7. This should probably be answered by someone who has had a section, but I think it's 4 nights and the drugs usually wear off in a few hours, I think you might be OK for visitors that evening, but I'd keep an open mind about it.
Good luck to you, I'm so sorry this isn't ending the way you had hoped.
TTC #1 since 10/2012.
BFP#1 11/28/12, MC, BFP #2 CP
BFP #3 10/21/2013, EDD 7/3/2014
Beta #1 (4W6D): 1768 Beta #2 (5W1D): 5255
1st US at 6W4D HB of 112 BPM!
1/20/2014: IT'S A GIRL!
6/30/2014: Happy birthday baby M!
Aw, sorry your plans didn't work out the way you wanted. I had an unplanned c/s with my first, and it was tough. But I think knowing you're going to have one will make a big difference in terms of being prepared mentally (and the physical recovery is supposed to be easier with a planned one, too).
In terms of VBAC, you might want to post on the VBAC board to get stories of women who had VBACs with breech c/s. I don't think it'll hurt your chances in any significant way the next time. Good luck and take care of yourself!!
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)
I had attempted a home birth and ended up with a c-section after 27 hours of labor, so I sympathize a lot with your situation but please don't feel that all is lost. So much of what we read in preparation of birth talks about increased likelihood of various problems, but those problems may still be very rare even with a c-section. I hope some of this helps - hang in there!
If your baby is breech, that's not really a reason to induce and being "big" doesn't actually mean you need to induce either. You're free to wait until you naturally go into labor and then get a c-section if your baby is still breech by then.
I asked about this and I was told that delayed cord clamping was not an option but that's because they need to suction my baby before her first breath. Maybe it would be possible for you - ask!
You definitely can ask to have your arms free during and after the operation. Put that in your birth plan. Any reasonable provider should agree to that.
The Dr's will still have another hour or so of work to do on putting you back together while your baby gets the first tests done. But they should be able to let you hold & snuggle baby first, so long as there's no distress, so put that in your birth plan as well.
I don't know how this works when you haven't gone through labor first, but if your baby latches on to BF, that will definitely give your body the signal to close up shop down there. They'll take out your placenta - btw, if you were interested in looking at it, let them know ahead of time. I highly doubt they'd do uterine massage - I explicitly had a no on that in my birth plan.
For a c-section, you'll need an epidural, and then some pain killers after surgery but none of those should harm your breastfeeding relationship. In fact, I found that I needed to be really timely with taking the pain meds during those first 48 hours post-op otherwise sitting up to BF was too painful. You might want to bring a BFing pillow to the hospital.
Your hospital may or may not allow video of a surgery but pictures of the baby should be allowed.
We stayed 4.5 days and even though all of my research led me to believe I would hate the hospital, it was actually really nice to have food brought to me, housecleaning, extra hands to change a diaper, etc. I didn't ask to leave earlier but if I had wanted to, we could have I suppose. It's not prison - you want to go home, you can. Each morning we asked our head nurse to put up a "do not disturb" sign for a few hours so we could get some extra sleep - that was lovely
With visitors - my immediate family came the next morning and stayed too long. I think half hour max on the first day. My friends came 2 days later and stayed an hour - that was perfect.
I hope that helps!
I also just saw this article re-posted by a doula I know & thought of your post... It may be worth a read:
https://evidencebasedbirth.com/a-doula-facilitates-skin-to-skin-in-the-operating-room/
1) I know I can always try for a VBAC next time but if I don't labour this time around my body will be doing it for the first time ever...and with a uterine scar. Is there any info out there that addresses this? Does labouring before the caesarian make the second birth easier?
Mothers who have a first c/s for breech babies are actually some of the most successful at having a VBAC. This is because breech position is unlikely to reoccur in your next pregnancy.
2) What about cord clamping now? Can they delay it the 90 seconds or is it standard to cut it off right away?
Not sure, ask your OB about this.
3) I am SO devastated about the possibility that I won't be able to hold my baby after it is born. This is the saddest part for me to let go of. Can they free my arms and have skin to skin while they are stitching me up?
Definitely ask about this. I have seen pictures of moms holding their babies while being stitched up during their c/s. You may be able to touch baby or have someone hold the baby up to your face if you can't hold them.
Can they do all of the testing with the baby on me or do they have to take it away?
If you and the baby are healthy, there is no reason they have to take the baby away. Some hospitals still separate moms and babies after a c/s but there is no need for that, and it is YOUR baby, not the hospital's.
4) How do they get the uterus to shrink. It has had no hormonal signal to do this, just cut open and emptied. Do they give me a drug? The uterus massage? How can they do this with stitches and staples? How does the placenta seperate from the uterus without labour?
They will probably manually remove the placenta, but I'm not sure. Once the baby and placenta are out, the hormones from the placenta are no longer in your body. This hormone change triggers your uterus to involute and your body to start milk production. These things will happen whether you deliver vaginally or by c/s. They will probably give you some Pitocin to help your uterus shrink down, but it's nothing that will harm you.
5) What about all of the drugs before/during/after that I now have to take? How will this affect breast feeding? Is it harder to get BF established if the baby doesn't go through the catecholemine release associated with labour "stress"?
You should be able to breastfeed just fine. The pain meds they give you after a c/s are safe for breastfeeding. I breastfed while taking Percocet and ibuprofen after my c/s and it was absolutely fine. In fact, I would have been in too much pain to breastfeed otherwise, so the meds actually helped us breastfeed. I went on to breastfeed for 2+ years. I know many moms who have breastfed successfully after a c/s, whether planned or unplanned.
6) Previous to this I really wanted a video of the birth. I am not so sure now as surgery kind of ick's me out. DH thinks we should still get a video done in case we regret it later. Have you ever heard of this being done for a c section?
Many hospitals will not allow you to videotape a c/s (or even a vaginal birth). You will have to ask your doctor about this.
7) What's the deal with length of hospital stay. Is it 3-5 days or until I poo? How long do I WANT to stay? How long before I can get up and take care of baby...will I be a drugged out zombie? Will I want family to come that night to see baby? How are most moms the evening of the surgery?
I stayed 3 nights. They released me before my first postpartum poop (otherwise I would have been there another 2 days!) but they will make sure you are passing gas before they release you. You should not be a drugged out zombie. If you have your c/s in the morning, you will probably be fine to see visitors that evening, but you may want to tell people that you will call them when you are feeling up to it.
Thanks so much in advance for sharing your stories and experiences, I have only 12 days to mentally prep for this and I spent the last 8.5 months learning everything I could about natural vaginal birth...so i feel so unprepared!!!!!! so thank you xxx
I had a c/s with my first and it was not what I wanted. So I understand all your fears and sadness. But really, you will be OK.
And some important advice: TAKE YOUR STOOL SOFTENERS!!!! No really, take them. And then when you think you don't need to take them anymore, keep taking them.
I had a c-section due to breech baby, we didn't know he was breech until after we got to the hospital after my water broke.
Your baby does still have time to flip, hoping for that for you.
3) I am SO devastated about the possibility that I won't be able to hold my baby after it is born. This is the saddest part for me to let go of. Can they free my arms and have skin to skin while they are stitching me up?
In answer to question 3- I personally was in no shape to hold DS while on the table, I was shaking to badly from hormonal changes and the epidural. It was a while before I felt like I wouldn't drop him, so I probably didn't hold him for a good hour or so and honestly I was okay with that, I was still trying to deal with the fact that his birth didn't go as planned. If it is in your birth plan and your OB has no problem with it, lots of women do skin to skin on the table now. Check out www.birthwithoutfearblog.com for some stories of gentle c-sections.
4) How do they get the uterus to shrink. It has had no hormonal signal to do this, just cut open and emptied. Do they give me a drug? The uterus massage? How can they do this with stitches and staples? How does the placenta seperate from the uterus without labour?
I was given pitocin afterwards to help the uterus shrink down they also did uterine massage starting a couple hours after birth. The OB will scrape the placenta off the uterine wall and deliver it the same way that he delivered your LO, through the incision. I know they did my stitches a special way,I forget what it is called, but there is a way that is better then just using the staples, you may want to ask your OB about that. Also, my attending OB knew that I was already planning for a VBAC with future children, we talked about it before we went into the OR, so he made sure he used the correct cut and made it low to avoid future complications with VBAC.
5) What about all of the drugs before/during/after that I now have to take? How will this affect breast feeding? Is it harder to get BF established if the baby doesn't go through the catecholemine release associated with labour "stress"?
We didn't have any problems with breastfeeding due to the drugs, my hospital does have a on staff lactation consultant and she came in later that morning to check in on us and make sure things were going good, we did have some latch problems which she helped us with.
If you are worried about labor and hormones the baby gets could you convince your OB to allow you to go into early labor before the section? Because you really don't need to worry about how big the baby is if you are already planning a section due to being breech....just a thought.
Hope all goes well for you!
TTC #1 since 10/2012.
BFP#1 11/28/12, MC, BFP #2 CP
BFP #3 10/21/2013, EDD 7/3/2014
Beta #1 (4W6D): 1768 Beta #2 (5W1D): 5255
1st US at 6W4D HB of 112 BPM!
1/20/2014: IT'S A GIRL!
6/30/2014: Happy birthday baby M!
1) I know I can always try for a VBAC next time but if I don't labour this time around my body will be doing it for the first time ever...and with a uterine scar. Is there any info out there that addresses this? Does labouring before the caesarian make the second birth easier?
I don't really know the answer to this. I only dilated to 4 cm before my c/s. I have read that if you didn't make it past 4cm that you should consider it your first labor. That doesn't mean it won't go well though.
2) What about cord clamping now? Can they delay it the 90 seconds or is it standard to cut it off right away?
The OB who did my c/s was unwilling to delay the cord clamping, but DD had a lot of meconium in her fluid. If it had been more relaxed and planned I would have asked. I would just ask.
3) I am SO devastated about the possibility that I won't be able to hold my baby after it is born. This is the saddest part for me to let go of. Can they free my arms and have skin to skin while they are stitching me up?
This was the worst part for me. I was only allowed to touch her cheek and did not get to do skin to skin or BF for three hours. I would never let that happen again. I wish I had had more time and energy to protest. I would voice your concerns and preferences now. Most hospitals seem to be moving more toward allowing skin to skin immediately. ASK!
Can they do all of the testing with the baby on me or do they have to take it away?
They can do some tests with baby on you. Some will have to be done on a table (like weighing and measuring), but none should have to be done out of the room. This is another place where I failed in my diligence. I should have insisted she stay with me. Honestly I was too tired to fight, but I regret it.
4) How do they get the uterus to shrink. It has had no hormonal signal to do this, just cut open and emptied. Do they give me a drug? The uterus massage? How can they do this with stitches and staples? How does the placenta seperate from the uterus without labour?
I think they use pitocin.
5) What about all of the drugs before/during/after that I now have to take? How will this affect breast feeding? Is it harder to get BF established if the baby doesn't go through the catecholemine release associated with labour "stress"?
I had absolutely no problems breastfeeding. I was primarily on ibuprofen after the first 12 hours. DD was very alert from the start. Just make sure you BF frequently and do lots of skin to skin contact.
6) Previous to this I really wanted a video of the birth. I am not so sure now as surgery kind of ick's me out. DH thinks we should still get a video done in case we regret it later. Have you ever heard of this being done for a c section?
They may or may not allow video. We took no video but plenty of pictures. A few are pretty icky, but I'm glad I have them.
7) What's the deal with length of hospital stay. Is it 3-5 days or until I poo? How long do I WANT to stay? How long before I can get up and take care of baby...will I be a drugged out zombie? Will I want family to come that night to see baby? How are most moms the evening of the surgery?
We were there 3 nights. I could have stayed a fourth, but the nurses were trying to get me to supplement with formula and I wanted to go home. DD was doing GREAT and they were just being obnoxious. She had surpassed her birth weight by her 2 week check up. It just took my milk 4 days to come in.
My advice is to make your preferences known now, so that you won't have any surprises. Make sure your DH and OB know your preferences and don't be afraid to speak up if policy gets in the way. Just because something is routine doesnt' mean they can't deviate if you ask. So, ask and insist on what you want.
And I love the video of the "natural cesarean." I am hoping for a VBAC this time, but if that doesnt' work, that's the kind of c/s I'll be aiming for. Good luck!
Ladies!! Thank you for taking to time to leave your thorough comments and your heart felt messages of hope. Your stories and advice will really help in my doctors appt today. I guess the good thing about the planned c section is that we have the time to hammer our new birth plan through the staff's heads the morning of the birth. I also saw the "natural caesarian" video on YouTube and was really moved by it. Fortunately my hospital is fairly progressive so I am hoping that I can have a fairly positive experience.
Again, I really appreciate the time you all took to respond and share your stories!!
Best wishes for the New Year
xoxoxo
I agree with this. If I were in your situation, I definitely would not agree to an induction and would try to labor naturally up until 7-8 cm dilation with the aim of getting the baby to flip. Being head down really is the most natural position for the baby to be in and they can flip at any moment, so the longer you have to naturally be pregnant and labor, the more chances you're giving your LO to flip and be born vaginally.
If you get to 7-8 cm and baby's still breech, then you can go into it knowing you tried everything you could. Having a c-section after working so hard for so long was disappointing but I know I did everything I could and it was just meant to be. I was at peace with my decision when I get into the operating room.
Good luck with your appointment today!
I don't have any c-section experience, but I read on here once that a doula recommended a bag of frozen peas on top of the belly to turn breech babies. She said they don't like the cold. Sounds so simple, and a little silly, but its no harm to try!
Good luck!
You still have at least two weeks before you are even to term. Anything could happen by then. It's very possible the baby will turn when it's ready. :-). I agree with a few others when they suggest even waiting until 7-8 cm in labor before making the call for c-section.
On a side note... I just had a client who at 39 weeks she found an OB that turned her baby who was breach, who had a c-section scheduled with her other Dr.
Possibly the main reason I'm optimistic. Remember, it's your choice to wait.
P.S. any Dr. making the "big baby" claim, to me, is a red flag. :-(